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Any tractor mechanics on here? Case 580C backhoe died running, now wont turn over.

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    Any tractor mechanics on here? Case 580C backhoe died running, now wont turn over.

    I picked up a 1980 Case 580C. It looked like a tight machine and strong. Started real fast, would lift both ends at idle no problem and fast. Price seemed fair. Pins were tight, bushings in great shape, no welds on anything, no real bad leaks, basic stuff worked (minus tach, gauges, brakes, and starter push button). I topped off fluids and planned on changing fluids and filters after a day or two of use. I greased up all the pins with 3% moly grease. Anything with needle bearings or higher speed got Mystic grease. Everything took grease ok. I got the instrument cluster going (12v supply issue) and buffed it out so you can see through it. I also added a ford starter relay to the case starter relay (previous owner had been using a screwdriver). I also took apart the mechanical part of the starter relay and sanded/shined and cleaned it up for good contact. It starts fast, strong, and easy. I wanted to use the tractor for a few days to see what all I needed to buy for it, so here is where the story starts.

    I'm operating in sandy soil about 1/3 to maaaybe 1/2 throttle, digging out a small pond (think size of a car). I wanted to practice on level land and in soft soil taking thin passes. I was taking it easy learning the machine. No bucking or anything. Everything is going well for almost an hour and while I was swinging a backhoe bucket of dirt the engine died. It didnt sputter, make noise, screech, knock, rattle or anything. The best way I can describe it was like someone just pinched the tailpipe shut or pinched hydraulics to kill it. It died fast, but no thunk or thud was heard. I tried to start it back up and the starter would turn the engine maybe 5-10 degrees then "bounce" back. You could watch the engine fan blades. Its like something mechanical is keeping the engine from turning, almost like it being hydro-locked.

    Here is what I did:
    -checked oil, didnt have water in it or smell like diesel at all. Level was right at full line
    -checked radiator fluid, no oil in it. level was fine. Was able to pop cap off in 5 minutes and it didnt spew. I could touch the engine by hand. It did not overheat at all.

    Next day:
    -checked battery voltage (12.4) Jumped it at 13v still did the same thing. Voltage dropped some but not enough to be a concern.
    -tried starting with front bucket and a backhoe lever engaged just in case the hyd pump was hyd locked up, no go.
    -took a screwdriver to the flywheel inspection port and could turn the engine about 8 teeth (could go 4 teeth each direction) and then it would get hard and didnt feel comfortable prying any harder

    Next thoughts:
    -Starter seems 100% working and fine, but pull it and make sure nothing is locked up. Really dont think thats it, but its an easy thing to do.
    -Remove injectors to make sure I am not hydrolocked. Doubt that would be the case, or the engine oil would have indicated a problem.
    -Doubt flywheel bolt backed out into the housing, would think that would have made noise.
    -Pull hydraulic pump and try to spin over engine. Wondering if the pump didnt break a tooth and then lock up? I assume that could stop an engine like that. Thinking this is the most likely candidate.
    -Read somewhere someone had an injector pump fail and it locked up an engine. I would think the engine would overcome and break it, but its a thought.

    I'm really leaning towards the hyd pump breaking a tooth and locking up or something of that nature. Hate to have to drain the hyd fluid to pull the pump though to see if the engine and the pump both turn separately.

    Based off what I describe, what would be yall's next move to troubleshoot it? Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and respond. I greatly appreciate it.

    -Jeremy

    #2
    think I would lean towards the pump

    Comment


      #3
      May have spun a bearing.

      Could even be a valve lifter failure. Sounds like you’ll need to start with taking off valve cover to check valves.

      On one diesel tractor I owned there was a valve lifter failure. Did some damage to the block.

      Hydraulic pump failure is definitely a possibility too.

      Hope it’s something simple.
      Last edited by Worksalot; 08-30-2018, 11:33 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Pump was what I was leaning towards of course but open to any ideas before I get into it this weekend.

        I did not check for fuel flow since then engine wont turn. fuel flow would explain it dying, but unless I am missing something, shouldn't keep it from being turned by hand with a screwdriver on the flywheel through the inspection port. Again, I could be wrong.

        Also, as a side note I am hoping I can pull the hyd pump off the splines on the crankshaft just enough to see if the engine spins without it on there. But im not holding my breath. Otherwise Im gonna have to drain some fluid.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jeremy360 View Post
          Pump was what I was leaning towards of course but open to any ideas before I get into it this weekend.

          I did not check for fuel flow since then engine wont turn. fuel flow would explain it dying, but unless I am missing something, shouldn't keep it from being turned by hand with a screwdriver on the flywheel through the inspection port. Again, I could be wrong.

          Also, as a side note I am hoping I can pull the hyd pump off the splines on the crankshaft just enough to see if the engine spins without it on there. But im not holding my breath. Otherwise Im gonna have to drain some fluid.
          I edited my previous reply. Doing too many things right now and missed the part where the engine won’t make full revolutions with starter engaged. See my above reply for my guesses.

          Comment


            #6
            Did you or did you not remove the injectors? I do suspect a cylinder full of water or diesel.

            Comment


              #7
              Second person Ive heard that said might be a valve dropping. Valve cover will be coming off to check.

              No I have not pulled injectors. No water or diesel in engine oil even after a couple day sitting.

              When I have the valve cover off, I will be checking both of those things.

              Comment


                #8
                Could have broken a balance shaft in the engine. If its not to hard pull them injectors and see if itll turn over by hand. May have to pull the pan and look if a rod bent

                Comment


                  #9
                  Welp...had a little daylight to look at it. Hydraulic pump looks to be the issue. I was able to shine with a flashlight and see the splines were torqued and flaking. I pulled the pump partially out and the engine turned over just fine. I left the pump hooked up to the hoses until my new one arrives. I could not turn the pump by hand...but it was tough getting anything on the shaft to even try to spin it. Hopefully the pump internals just locked up and there's nothing else that caused it. Guess I won't know until I take it out. The only thing I worry is that if there was some valve that failed that caused it to lock up. One thing that seemed odd to me was that the outriggers were holding the backhoe up. I used the levers and it did not let the machine down. I had to crack a line at each cylinder and lift them with a come-a-long and let them bleed the pressure. I needed to pull the machine to higher ground with potential rain coming.

                  Hopefully it's nothing, just thought it was wierd the outrigger levers wouldn't let the machine down. In the back of my mind I wonder if something didn't plug or fail (other than the pump) to cause the issue. Either way I think a new pump is needed....just hoping it doesn't lock up with pressure soon as the new one is on.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Not sure how many safety shut-offs an 80's tractor might have but our equipment will do this from time to time more times than not it can be traced back a hi-temp switch or low oil flow switch tucked away in some obscure place. Makes you wish you could get your hands around the neck of some product engineer somewhere.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I guess you'll be pulling your hydraulic filter to see if there's any metal in it. You said you were going to change all the fluids anyway in a couple days. I guess this is the time. Good luck on not finding any other expensive problems.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        For sure. I will be taking the old pump apart anyhow to see what exactly went wrong just for curiosities sake. But yes....filters will be a must after inspection.

                        Comment

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