Super tuning

[Mudslinger]

Some of these responses make me want to laugh, right Rocky!

[rocky]

Some of these responses make me want to laugh, right Rocky!

Makes me question how many bows some have had tuned.

[rocky]

depends on how you quantify tuned and what your expectations are. Greg does good work...................and Carter, well he is just legendary.

Simply for discussion, Explain the difference in "tuned" and "super-tuned".
My definition of "tuned", is Bh and Fp impact the same at reasonable yardages, with bow reaching expected speeds according to IBO rating.
Of course, the shooter plays a major role in the outcome of "tuned".
Explain your definition of "super-tuned".
I'm confident of your experience.

[kabanh]

Is to make sure everything lines up looking for cam lean, cam timing, Bh and fp tuning is what I'm looking for

[rocky]

Is to make sure everything lines up looking for cam lean, cam timing, Bh and fp tuning is what I'm looking for

.

[Slick8]

I don't know Gmotsu23, but I'm sure he does a good job, but thinking that all pro-shops don't go thru every detail is simply wrong.
A good shop tech sees lots of bows, multiple times, and can recall issues with bows from previous experience.
Lots of home tuners, (even though they may be very good), rarely see the #s of bows shop techs do.
Just because shop-techs are busier, doesn't mean the good ones don't spend the time to do it right.

It's laughable that shooters think that sending their bow off to "the supertuner" somehow get a better job.

That's a fair point and I wasn't trying to bash or say that a shop tech isn't worth what they do or can't do it as well. I've just never had anyone spend the time that Gregg has and I've had work done by some very reputable people in Houston.

I will add that some of best attention I ever had in a shop was from Scott at Viking and that place had a "not so good" reputation due to one man....

[muddyfuzzy]

Simply for discussion, Explain the difference in "tuned" and "super-tuned".
My definition of "tuned", is Bh and Fp impact the same at reasonable yardages, with bow reaching expected speeds according to IBO rating.
Of course, the shooter plays a major role in the outcome of "tuned".
Explain your definition of "super-tuned".
I'm confident of your experience.

For me I would say the main difference is how many times your go through the process and to what extent. The basics of getting a bow to spec, make weight, hit let-off and draw length is pretty low hanging fruit and can/is done by most capable shops (although I have never seen this done any place with a new bow OTB) Speaking from personal exp. most shops set center shot and nocking point and off you go. That's fine because until the strings are shot in there is no need beating yourself up over stuff when the bow is still going to require some tweaking.

Yoke tuning......some do it some don't. However, split yoke systems like the Bowtech OD binary are awesome in their adjustability. Hoyt and Mathews solo cams really need it done to maximize arrow flight as well. Sadly, I have seen bows taken out of proper center shot to get BH to group with FP's just because the yokes weren't set for horizontal nock travel. I think this is where you start getting into an exceptional tune. If the basics are completed and yoke tuning is done properly then we really start to see great things with arrow flight.

Now that the bow is in spec and the yoke(s) tuned at full draw we get to the brass tacks......optimal cam rotation. This can really only be done going through a chrono using speed as the identifier of optimal cam(s) starting rotation. Guys like Carter and Shane @ OnTarget get these sick speeds out of these bows largely through this process. I've seen Scott from the old Viking Archery shop do this, it is a labor of love and takes several arrows, trips to the press....repeat. I have never seen this done before with the exception of a full-blown Viking tune......... Scott is also the best bowtech I have ever personally watched so I wasn't surprised. Most shops I go into don't even have chromos or if they do its that goofy little thing that screws into the riser.

Now, I'm not hating on shops............. they are the backbone of the industry. Bow owners are largely to blame and don't get a free pass. Many don't know about the in's and out's of their equipment..........nor do they care to. They lack the ability to have an educated conversation about their perceived issues and provide feedback so said shop can really get them squared away. Many come in, throw a bow up on the counter and say "I need a tune up"...... I mean c'mon its not a car and doesn't need a fluid top off. Before I started doing my own work and work for others I found that if I could "speak the language" things were generally taken care of.

The big problem I have with shops is the variation tech to tech in trouble-shooting/tuning a bow. You can have several techs at a shop that all see different things when they see the same bow. When somebody brings a bow to me the previously mentioned steps are executed (when applicable) in order without fail. Less variation in my process equals less variation in the end result.

However; as you stated, the shooter plays a HUGE role in this. Like I say...... You can only tune as good as you can shoot.

[rocky]

For me I would say the main difference is how many times your go through the process and to what extent. The basics of getting a bow to spec, make weight, hit let-off and draw length is pretty low hanging fruit and can/is done by most capable shops (although I have never seen this done any place with a new bow OTB) Speaking from personal exp. most shops set center shot and nocking point and off you go. That's fine because until the strings are shot in there is no need beating yourself up over stuff when the bow is still going to require some tweaking.

Yoke tuning......some do it some don't. However, split yoke systems like the Bowtech OD binary are awesome in their adjustability. Hoyt and Mathews solo cams really need it done to maximize arrow flight as well. Sadly, I have seen bows taken out of proper center shot to get BH to group with FP's just because the yokes weren't set for horizontal nock travel. I think this is where you start getting into an exceptional tune. If the basics are completed and yoke tuning is done properly then we really start to see great things with arrow flight.

Now that the bow is in spec and the yoke(s) tuned at full draw we get to the brass tacks......optimal cam rotation. This can really only be done going through a chrono using speed as the identifier of optimal cam(s) starting rotation. Guys like Carter and Shane @ OnTarget get these sick speeds out of these bows largely through this process. I've seen Scott from the old Viking Archery shop do this, it is a labor of love and takes several arrows, trips to the press....repeat. I have never seen this done before with the exception of a full-blown Viking tune......... Scott is also the best bowtech I have ever personally watched so I wasn't surprised. Most shops I go into don't even have chromos or if they do its that goofy little thing that screws into the riser.

Now, I'm not hating on shops............. they are the backbone of the industry. Bow owners are largely to blame and don't get a free pass. Many don't know about the in's and out's of their equipment..........nor do they care to. They lack the ability to have an educated conversation about their perceived issues and provide feedback so said shop can really get them squared away. Many come in, throw a bow up on the counter and say "I need a tune up"...... I mean c'mon its not a car and doesn't need a fluid top off. Before I started doing my own work and work for others I found that if I could "speak the language" things were generally taken care of.

The big problem I have with shops is the variation tech to tech in trouble-shooting/tuning a bow. You can have several techs at a shop that all see different things when they see the same bow. When somebody brings a bow to me the previously mentioned steps are executed (when applicable) in order without fail. Less variation in my process equals less variation in the end result.

However; as you stated, the shooter plays a HUGE role in this. Like I say...... You can only tune as good as you can shoot.

Sounds good.
What is the first bow you either had "super-tuned", or actually tuned yourself.?

[rocky]

Is to make sure everything lines up looking for cam lean, cam timing, Bh and fp tuning is what I'm looking for

This is simple criteria for tuning a bow, as muddyfuzzy stated.
"low hanging fruit".

[Bowtechshooter]

I know a guy in the houston area that is a tuning freak and is freaking amazing at it. He tunes hunting bows and tounament bows. He has people from all over the country mail him their bows for him to tune and set up

[muddyfuzzy]

Sounds good.

What is the first bow you either had "super-tuned", or actually tuned yourself.?

Mathews Outback was the first bow I really saw throughly tuned. I took it into Viking and Scott was kind enough to bring me back where he did all the work. Kind of a strange bird he is, but he will actually entertain questions and explain what is going on. It's pretty cool to watch the draw force curve change on a scale as adjustment are being made as a badly out of spec bow comes into optimal performance. That exp. gave me basic tools and confidence to do it myself.

Single cam, cam and a half, dual cam they are all the same. There are things I like about all of them. I've owned them all and shot them all I just try to get the most out of them regardless.

[muddyfuzzy]

I know a guy in the houston area that is a tuning freak and is freaking amazing at it. He tunes hunting bows and tounament bows. He has people from all over the country mail him their bows for him to tune and set up

There are a bunch of great bow tuners in our area, a large talent pool to choose from and great for some stimulating conversation.

[rocky]

Mathews Outback was the first bow I really saw throughly tuned. I took it into Viking and Scott was kind enough to bring me back where he did all the work. Kind of a strange bird he is, but he will actually entertain questions and explain what is going on. It's pretty cool to watch the draw force curve change on a scale as adjustment are being made as a badly out of spec bow comes into optimal performance. That exp. gave me basic tools and confidence to do it myself.

Single cam, cam and a half, dual cam they are all the same. There are things I like about all of them. I've owned them all and shot them all I just try to get the most out of them regardless.

Outback....'04?
In 1994, I attended my first bowtuning school.
Single cams were just out, and I actually owned one then, Mathews Ultralight.
We didn't have the internet or Archerytalk back then.
Dual cam bows were the predominant bows on the market.
Internet dialect, and a few personal bows does not qualify for a "super-tuner".
That being said, I want to warn the OP about "super-tuners".
I'm sure that muddyfuzzy and Gmotsu23 are great bow tuners, but keep in mind, that there are many bowshop techs with years more knowledge.
Some simply do not "internet" their way into stardom.
I'm not bashing, simply stating that bowshops should be your first choice.
If not satisfied, then you can move on to the real experts.

[kabanh]

Yes sir and that's what I'm doing because the shop I went too was set up like an assembly line and didn't really want to take the time to help they said its within a the circle that's good your using it for hunting

[rocky]

Yes sir and that's what I'm doing because the shop I went too was set up like an assembly line and didn't really want to take the time to help they said its within a the circle that's good your using it for hunting

Sad.