What is the point in Late Antlerless and Spike season?

[Alley Dog]

If you have 8 does and only 2 fawns then you have a bigger problem. You haven't killed any does on 500 acres since 98 and that is all the deer you have then something is very wrong. In 15 years with a start of only 5 does each having only one fawn and half are doe fawns and those fawns having fawns their first year and on and on then you should have 22,580 does minus predation. Now, where is all the does? You have a serious problem my friend.

I don't know but I have a small place 84ac I have only had it for 4 years and I have been keeping close watch on fawns. This is the first year for me to see a doe fawn all other have been buck. I'm in a one buck county and have lot more buck than does. With that said this year I took a young buck and still have not taken a doe in 4 years.

[Widowmaker]

Duplicate post

[Widowmaker]

You lost me. If you are suggesting that I am crawfishing that isn't the case.

I should have stated I don't care to shoot does. Not that I don't care about shooting does.

If this is your stance,then don't participate-But don't slam others for their extra opportunities.
TP&W can't cater to every individual in each & every county by specific populations,it's a blanket rule to aide where it's beneficial.
If it don't pertain to your specific needs because of low populus numbers,then opt out and let others do what needs to be done,& offered to them,period.

[Javelin]

The genetics were the Buck that sired her and the were now in the Fawn.
Not the doe genetics.

but the doe genetics has just as much or maybe even more to do with horn size of the fawns than the buck. So it really doesn't matter if you shoot a doe before or after the rut the end result is the same.

However like I say all the time, Genetics is a term that is the MOST overused in hunting. For 99% of hunting situations genetics doesn't mean a hill of beans. All other factors trump genetics as far as low fence hunting goes.

The ONLY plus to shooting all your does early is that when the rut comes around there are less does out there and thus they have a higher chance of all getting bred AND it makes bucks search more for does as you now have less of them so your bucks could be more visible to you as a hunter (this is the theory but it is hardly ever observed except under ideal conditions)

[systemnt]

but the doe genetics has just as much or maybe even more to do with horn size of the fawns than the buck. So it really doesn't matter if you shoot a doe before or after the rut the end result is the same.

However like I say all the time, Genetics is a term that is the MOST overused in hunting. For 99% of hunting situations genetics doesn't mean a hill of beans. All other factors trump genetics as far as low fence hunting goes.

The ONLY plus to shooting all your does early is that when the rut comes around there are less does out there and thus they have a higher chance of all getting bred AND it makes bucks search more for does as you now have less of them so your bucks could be more visible to you as a hunter (this is the theory but it is hardly ever observed except under ideal conditions)

50% of the genetic is your Doe...correct.
Not disputing that.
The conversation i was interjecting in..was a debate on when best to shoot does... early or late.
The reasons for deer removal, be it doe or buck, are static across any management program... resources available and ratios - you do manage both of these to get better genetics (or at least thats the end game goal).
When you shoot does as part of that game is how you much weight you give the need to correct your ratios per your resources VS. how much weight you give your need/want/desire for specific genetics to be carried on in future fawn crops.
We arent arguing different points here.

[adam_p]

If this is your stance,then don't participate-But don't slam others for their extra opportunities.
TP&W can't cater to every individual in each & every county by specific populations,it's a blanket rule to aide where it's beneficial.
If it don't pertain to your specific needs because of low populus numbers,then opt out and let others do what needs to be done,& offered to them,period.

I have not slammed anybody for shooting does. I simply suggest that the extended season isn't good for my area. It probably isn't good for 85% of my county. But, as was stated earlier in the thread, it might be necessary for the other 15% of the county who have higher density levels and that outweighs us with low density levels. I don't believe we should be able to shoot 2 bucks either. I think if you are going to allow shooting spikes it should be 1 buck greater than 13" OR a spike, not both. But that is another argument for another thread.

[DFWPI]

Well don't start it. If a person wants to hunt or needs to hunt, go for it. If you don't need to or want to, stay home and watch soap operas.

[flufster]

I like the late season...Our numbers are way down due to the drought so I wont be taking advantage of it this year but normally it is a stress free hunt that is very enjoyable.

The only valid reason for not liking the late season doe hunting is if you have a fear of finding "chihuahas" when you are field dressing them. My dad had this fear and would always shoot his doe early in the season. The doe are prego earlier in the season but they are just not visable. If they are not bred, they will most likely be if you hadnt shot them. Shooting a doe will take 2 or 3 mouths out of next years herd either way.

[Javelin]

50% of the genetic is your Doe...correct.
Not disputing that.
The conversation i was interjecting in..was a debate on when best to shoot does... early or late.
The reasons for deer removal, be it doe or buck, are static across any management program... resources available and ratios - you do manage both of these to get better genetics (or at least thats the end game goal).
When you shoot does as part of that game is how you much weight you give the need to correct your ratios per your resources VS. how much weight you give your need/want/desire for specific genetics to be carried on in future fawn crops.
We arent arguing different points here.

gotcha

[ankle-deep]

It doesn't matter wether you shoot a doe early season or late season. If she is dead she isn't dropping a fawn. Shooting her before she is bred is no different than shooting her after she is bred.

My thoughts exactly....... Shooting does before they are bred or after they are bred, either way is managing the population. By shooting them early you lessen the stress on your bucks during the rut.

[eagles405]

There is another great management tool most people are not aware of and one reason for shooting does in the late season. The reason is you can narrowing down the exact timing of the rut/ see how synchronized the rut is. This can be done by aging the fetus. There has been a lot of research on fetus growth over the years and a ruler has been designed based on the average growth of white-tailed deer fetus. The basic concept is that you measure the length of the fetus and there is a set of calculation that can be done and you get the Julian calendar days. Subtract those from the date the deer was shot and you get the average date of conception for that length fetus. If a couple does are shot during late season in your area, you can see when the average date of conception (rut) is as well as seeing how synchronized it is. Both are very useful and have important management implications. Here is a link to the ruler and when I get back up to my office I will post a link to the research that it is based on. http://www.amazon.com/White-tailed-D.../dp/B002QA3MPC You can also look at the kidney fat/ bone marrow among other body index's and get a general idea of heard health as well.

[Mjjust]

I love this thread or maybe I hate it as it shows how ignorant some hunters are when it comes to deer. The good news is it also shows how some know what they are talking about.

The hard part is figuring out which is which.

It's not hard to rule out the ones that only bash and contribute nothing though.


For reasons stated by many already it does make more sense to take them early as opposed to late when looked at it from a purely biological perspective. Problem is TPWD isn't dealing with biology only. They are dealing more with humans and our needs/wants. Like already stated, with bow season early a late doe is the only time left. For selfish reason I do not want bow season trampled on even if it would statistically be better to have an early gun doe season. I think a late doe season is the best management tool for TPWD within the parameters that us hunters place on them.

Now y'all get decide if I'm ignorant or I know what I'm talking about.

[LeonCountyRook]

I can see hunting for the older spikes you passed on while going for your "trophy" all year, but agree with your take on harvesting the, potentially, bred does... Also, dont get why we can take does in our county during bow season and the 4 days of Thanksgiving, but no other times...

[Capp35]

lets start another debate...
How about that 13 inch rule? I have seen more of those that needed taking than spikes or does.

[Patton]

Where I hunt in Blanco, everybody is going after their trophy bucks. Nobody wants to possible ruin their hunt shooting a doe early on. So the late doe season will be used to kill the 26 more does we are supposed to get.