How many bare shaft or paper tune? need advice..

[GUT_TRAIL]

I have been shooting the setup Rick Welch helped me put together when I attended his class last year and it has preformed great. But, I have a new bow and wanted to use the same shafts with a slightly different head weight etc. Now these shafts have shot spot on out of the new bow just like my my other. I can hit just fine when i use correct form etc. So, today I decided to play around with bare shaft tuning just to see how things looked and man it was ugly. It appears my shafts were way to stiff, I went from 225g head up to 315g head before it started getting close to a bullet hole. Now my head is all screwed up. Just wondering if anyone else has had these type of issues, I guess the feathers are working hard getting the shaft flying straight. By the way, stu millers program shows this setup to be almost perfect even just slightly weak.

[Bisch]

I paper tune. That is how I learned to tune back when I shot a wheel bow. I get my arrows shooting bullet holes in the paper and everything is good to go for me. I have tried bare shaft tuning and just cannot get the results to be what I think they should be. I am happy with the results of the paper tuning and with my equipment after I get it paper tuned well. I do know this though, it takes a fairly consistent release to get reliable results using the paper tuning method.

And yes, big feathers will hide a lot!

Bisch

[GUT_TRAIL]

Yes, can see arrow flight issues even at 30 yds when I have a poor release .

[Trick]

And I can't paper tune a trad bow to save my life. I think it has to do with my sloppy release. But I can bare shaft tune with no problem and group large broadheads with field tips.

Matt

[Limbwalker]

Paper tuning a bow shot with fingers is practically useless. I can get a left tear, step back 10 feet, get a hole, then step back 10 feet and get a right tear, with some arrows.

Learn to select and tune arrows using the bare shaft planing method. Leave the paper to the compound guys.

If you have trouble understanding bare shaft tuning, find someone who can explain it to you, or download the Easton tuning guide and follow it step by step with several different arrows. Eventually the light bulb will come on.

John

[trad"Doc"53]

I started out bare shaft tuning and it was a sandy beach to say the least! I helped out in an archery shop and we paper tuned all the wheelie bows so I tried it with my trad gear and that's the only way I tune now. I get it to shoot a bullet hole through paper and it will do all I need it to do.

[GUT_TRAIL]

Thanks guys

[Draco]

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[triffnix]

i used to use the bareshaft method but sometimes i got quiet strange results.
when i was at Double G archery with bisch he showed me paper tuning and it showed that my arrows were way too stiff altough bearshaft tunig showed they should be ok..

since that i only tune with paper. first i use stu millers calculator to bring me close and then go to paper..

worked pretty well every time..

Daniel

[JoeyF]

I just went to Rick's class a couple of weeks ago. The first thing he did was show me how to setup my bow and tune the arrows. He is adamant that bare shaft tuning is a complete waste of time and now that I understand his method of tuning I completely agree.

It took about 15 minutes to have my bow shooting better than I ever had it using Stu's calculator and the cut and tip weight method. Rick said all that gives you is a barrel of different length arrow shafts (he must have peeked into my garage). I took extensive notes and believe I can duplicate his results on about any setup.

His tuning method, just like his shot sequence, is so logical and simple it is very hard to believe and accept, but it does work and work very well indeed. Rick said we don't hunt with bare shafts so we don't care how a bare shaft flies. Just get your head back around what you learned at the class and be happy that your fletched shafts are hitting spot on.

[GUT_TRAIL]

Thanks Joey, I will update you guys a little. I can shoot the exact same arrow out of my new centaur as I do out of my recurve that rick helped me setup. I didn't have to change a thing, now I went to a heavier broadhead and a lighter outsert but it is still around 40 grains more on the front. I tried shooting with 2 fletching mostly because it looks really cool and it has worked with the original setup. But when I shoot the heavier broadhead it was hitting way off especially low even at close distances, so i go back and three fletch like the others and it started hitting pretty much spot on even out to 40 yds. I don't know if the 2 fletch would not stablize the arrow or it it was comjng off the bow differently or what but for some reason the 3 fletch fixed it. Going to shoot more and see what happens.

[Trick]

I'm curious, why is bare shaft tuning a waste of time?

Thanks,
Matt

I just went to Rick's class a couple of weeks ago. The first thing he did was show me how to setup my bow and tune the arrows. He is adamant that bare shaft tuning is a complete waste of time and now that I understand his method of tuning I completely agree.

It took about 15 minutes to have my bow shooting better than I ever had it using Stu's calculator and the cut and tip weight method. Rick said all that gives you is a barrel of different length arrow shafts (he must have peeked into my garage). I took extensive notes and believe I can duplicate his results on about any setup.

His tuning method, just like his shot sequence, is so logical and simple it is very hard to believe and accept, but it does work and work very well indeed. Rick said we don't hunt with bare shafts so we don't care how a bare shaft flies. Just get your head back around what you learned at the class and be happy that your fletched shafts are hitting spot on.

[Bisch]

I just went to Rick's class a couple of weeks ago. The first thing he did was show me how to setup my bow and tune the arrows. He is adamant that bare shaft tuning is a complete waste of time and now that I understand his method of tuning I completely agree.

It took about 15 minutes to have my bow shooting better than I ever had it using Stu's calculator and the cut and tip weight method. Rick said all that gives you is a barrel of different length arrow shafts (he must have peeked into my garage). I took extensive notes and believe I can duplicate his results on about any setup.

His tuning method, just like his shot sequence, is so logical and simple it is very hard to believe and accept, but it does work and work very well indeed. Rick said we don't hunt with bare shafts so we don't care how a bare shaft flies. Just get your head back around what you learned at the class and be happy that your fletched shafts are hitting spot on.

Did he make you sign a disclosure saying you won't tell anyone else? Or can you give us just a little more info?

Bisch

[JoeyF]

"Did he make you sign a disclosure saying you won't tell anyone else?"

Seriously?

"Or can you give us just a little more info?"

I'll be glad to. Rick explains it on the Accuracy Factory DVD, but not in as much detail so it doesn't really sink in.

First, his basic premise of shooting instinctively is to set your bow up to shoot where you look. By using three different types of shelf (side plate) material, Martin rest, Velcro or leather you can move arrow flight right to left a total of eight inches. Up and down not so much, about 3 or 4 inches, and of course you can move the nock locator. This is your windage and elevation.

Secondly, pick an appropriate spined arrow off the arrow chart. We used a kinetic energy calculator to help approximate total arrow weight for optimum flight and energy. We selected the point, insert and length to get to the desired weight and then fletched the arrow. If the spine is in the ballpark, the arrow will fly straight but not on target.

Lastly, raise and set your bow arm toward the target and shoot your bow. When you identify the pattern, move the shot left or right, up or down as per the first step.

That's about all there is to it and it only takes a few minutes.

P.S.

Matt,
Because it is not necessary, as per above.

[GUT_TRAIL]

I believe ricks system does work great for hitting where you want. But at the same time it is kind of a way to get around tuning perfection. I have problems with tuning so I'm going to just listen....