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    #31
    I guess if all illegals were deported tomorrow, all tough manual labor jobs would disappear. We would have no more fruit, vegetables, milk, beef, chicken, concrete, framing, roofs, air conditioning, or oil.....and everyone's lawns would be 3 ft tall. I guess y'all are right. We better not mess with all these illegals holding our economy together.
    Last edited by LWC; 01-25-2018, 10:01 PM.

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      #32
      Originally posted by LWC View Post
      I guess if all illegals were deported tomorrow, all tough manual labor jobs would disappear. We would have no more fruit, vegetables, milk, beef, chicken, concrete, framing, roofs, air conditioning, or oil.....and everyone's lawns would be 3 ft tall. I guess y'all are right. We better not mess with all these illegals holding our economy together.


      The tough manual labor jobs won’t disappear, they’ll just take 10 times as long to get done. Then they’ll have to be be redone. I’ve lived this for 20+ years. It’s not just manual labor jobs either. There are a lot of skilled, semi skilled positions being held by illegals.

      I’m not pro illegal immigration, but it’s been allowed to get to the point it has. There are now people that were brought here and this is all they know. If they’re working, not leeching off of society then give them a chance. Make them ineligible for any sort of welfare. Make them learn English. Make them fully assimilate. One screw up and you’re gone for good. Build the wall now and don’t allow a 3 year old to be brought here, raised, then tell them you’re shipping them back to a foreign country they know nothing about when they’re 25. Believe it or not many of them are contributing positively.


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        #33
        Like Trump said, I'm sure some illegals are good people. They are also criminals. When you say that many are contributing positively.....are you considering the burden/cost that they put on our healthcare, welfare, and education systems?

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          #34
          Originally posted by MBV77 View Post
          The tough manual labor jobs won’t disappear, they’ll just take 10 times as long to get done. Then they’ll have to be be redone. I’ve lived this for 20+ years. It’s not just manual labor jobs either. There are a lot of skilled, semi skilled positions being held by illegals.

          I’m not pro illegal immigration, but it’s been allowed to get to the point it has. There are now people that were brought here and this is all they know. If they’re working, not leeching off of society then give them a chance. Make them ineligible for any sort of welfare. Make them learn English. Make them fully assimilate. One screw up and you’re gone for good. Build the wall now and don’t allow a 3 year old to be brought here, raised, then tell them you’re shipping them back to a foreign country they know nothing about when they’re 25. Believe it or not many of them are contributing positively.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          Don't waste your time. He has it in his mind how everything should be, although the facts clearly show he is wrong. He will come up with snide remarks to condemn anyone who actually understands what is truly going on, but offer absolutely no facts, other than his utopian opinion.

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            #35
            Spell it out for all of us Ironman. Explain how paying more for a service, and that money going into the hand of an American worker......will cause the strongest economy in the world to collapse. Let's hear these facts you speak of.

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              #36
              Originally posted by LWC View Post
              Spell it out for all of us Ironman. Explain how paying more for a service, and that money going into the hand of an American worker......will cause the strongest economy in the world to collapse. Let's hear these facts you speak of.
              Again, your ignorance is showing. It doesn't matter if it's an American born white boy, or a native Mexican doing the work. The PAY WILL NOT CHANGE. This idea that people are paying Mexicans LESS MONEY to do the same job is PURELY WRONG. You don't know about what you speak. Having said that, your ignorance is extremely strong on this subject. Like I said before, we aren't talking about day labor from 7-Eleven.

              There is still training and certifications that are needed in order to work on most job sites, REGARDLESS OF THIER NATIONALITY. Again, you have absolutely no clue of what you spew.

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                #37
                So how does paying an American the same as an illegal cause the economy to collapse....if immigration laws are enforced and illegals return to their own country? Does it have to do with Bitcoin??? Because I'll admit to not fully understanding the economics of the bitcoin

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by LWC View Post
                  So how does paying an American the same as an illegal cause the economy to collapse....if immigration laws are enforced and illegals return to their own country? Does it have to do with Bitcoin??? Because I'll admit to not fully understanding the economics of the bitcoin
                  It doesn't. We simply don't have the workforce that are Americans. That's what I've been trying to explain to you, but you insist on not listening to that fact.

                  Do you know what Davis Bacon is, and how it applies to the construction industry?

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                    #39
                    LWC & Ironman...both of you are on the same page 'i think' but just looking through the glass differently.

                    You simply gotta end bogus entitlements!! 90% are working the system who could actually be doing the labor the illegals are willing to do, but why would they?? It's a system that rewards laziness & empowers those who keep the system in place. Nobody likes to say it, but hunger is a hell of a motivator. There was avery interesting study done by state & the available entitlements. Those that know how to play the system have figured out how to make $40k+ doing nothing (no taxes!!). Where is the incentive to hang drywall??

                    You cut that crap out & that 90% that are able to work will get after it when their stomachs are empty...the costs should not go up. When I was in construction, most illegals from our sub-contractors were making more than min-wage.

                    You guys are gritching over a systemic game being paid by the tax-payers...the only winners are the dead beat Americans claiming the world is against them & are owed something by those who bust their *** only to have their paychecks sucked by the very parasites (politicians) who perpetuate this vicious monster cycle we are in. The illegals willing to work are simply pot licking the available labor that is needed. They are not being taken advantage of for lower wages cheating americans, it's simply more advantageous & easier to be on entitlements because we allow it. Take it away & the need for food / shelter by those forced off entitlements will dwindle the illegal force. This whole deal has brother fighting brother when it's our own govt who created the boxing ring.

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by Artos View Post
                      LWC & Ironman...both of you are on the same page 'i think' but just looking through the glass differently.

                      You simply gotta end bogus entitlements!! 90% are working the system who could actually be doing the labor the illegals are willing to do, but why would they?? It's a system that rewards laziness & empowers those who keep the system in place. Nobody likes to say it, but hunger is a hell of a motivator. There was avery interesting study done by state & the available entitlements. Those that know how to play the system have figured out how to make $40k+ doing nothing (no taxes!!). Where is the incentive to hang drywall??

                      You cut that crap out & that 90% that are able to work will get after it when their stomachs are empty...the costs should not go up. When I was in construction, most illegals from our sub-contractors were making more than min-wage.

                      You guys are gritching over a systemic game being paid by the tax-payers...the only winners are the dead beat Americans claiming the world is against them & are owed something by those who bust their *** only to have their paychecks sucked by the very parasites (politicians) who perpetuate this vicious monster cycle we are in. The illegals willing to work are simply pot licking the available labor that is needed. They are not being taken advantage of for lower wages cheating americans, it's simply more advantageous & easier to be on entitlements because we allow it. Take it away & the need for food / shelter by those forced off entitlements will dwindle the illegal force. This whole deal has brother fighting brother when it's our own govt who created the boxing ring.
                      That's exactly what I have been saying. I have even given the correlation between entitlements going up and illegal immigration. It's not that hard to see what the real problem is.

                      Having said that, America has more work going on, than we have American workers to do the job. The Mexican workforce is not going away. It's that simple.
                      Last edited by Ironman; 01-26-2018, 12:20 AM.

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                        #41
                        Agreed...all I'm saying is if entitlements were eliminated to the vast majority who are more than capable of doing the same labor (we all know this to be the case) the said able american workforce would fill almost all the void you say we have too much work to cover. It's sad to say & willing to bet you a bottle of your favorite hooch that we have WAY more able americans on entitlements capable of doing the work & do not need any magical number of illegals to fill a void. Trust me when I say it's even hard to find quality workers in the maquila industry & very competitive.

                        nor is it the greedy US businessman taking advantage of cheap labor...the entitlement system & her reward for doing squat that has caused our problem!! The idiotic press is the culprit who claims the biz owner does not want to pay fair wages and perpetuates the problem along with the elected officials who made this mess.



                        THIS is the actual problem...

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                          #42
                          They get paid the same wages and often times more because they are better workers.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Charles View Post
                            They get paid the same wages and often times more because they are better workers.
                            OK, but what if illegals weren't here to do the jobs? Would the wages be the same for the next man up? Or would employers have to pay more to get an American to do whatever manual labor job?

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by Artos View Post
                              Agreed...all I'm saying is if entitlements were eliminated to the vast majority who are more than capable of doing the same labor (we all know this to be the case) the said able american workforce would fill almost all the void you say we have too much work to cover. It's sad to say & willing to bet you a bottle of your favorite hooch that we have WAY more able americans on entitlements capable of doing the work & do not need any magical number of illegals to fill a void. Trust me when I say it's even hard to find quality workers in the maquila industry & very competitive.

                              nor is it the greedy US businessman taking advantage of cheap labor...the entitlement system & her reward for doing squat that has caused our problem!! The idiotic press is the culprit who claims the biz owner does not want to pay fair wages and perpetuates the problem along with the elected officials who made this mess.



                              THIS is the actual problem...
                              (CNSNews.com) - In the fourth quarter of 2011, 49.2 percent of Americans received benefits from one or more government programs, according to data released Tuesday by the Census Bureau.

                              By the end of Obama's rule the percentage was well over 55%. This only means that the 45% of the rest of us is working to support those that sit on the fat lazy azz and smoke dope all day.

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by muzzlebrake View Post
                                (CNSNews.com) - In the fourth quarter of 2011, 49.2 percent of Americans received benefits from one or more government programs, according to data released Tuesday by the Census Bureau.

                                By the end of Obama's rule the percentage was well over 55%. This only means that the 45% of the rest of us is working to support those that sit on the fat lazy azz and smoke dope all day.
                                I'm not sure which programs this article is referring to, but using a government program does not always mean that people are lazy and sit on their ***. The va is a huge govt program. Ag programs are huge. every farmer that uses a subsidized insurance program certainly isn't a lazy @ss.

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