Does a bareshaft centripetally oscillate when shot?

[Spearchunker]

Are you hunting bees and going for a heart shot?

To answer you question it depends,

[splitfinger]

Someone learned a new word. [emoji16]

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I can't pronounce it nor know the meaning of it. I just assume it means rotation to some degree.

Doug

[Rat]

The reason I ask is regard to fletching. Furthermore, is a centripetally motivated oscillating shaft enhanced or detracted by wing of the same curve?

What say yall?

Yes, it is called clocking, and there is no way to know for sure which way a shaft is going to clock (rotate).

Clocking is when we make a mark on the bareshaft, say at the top when it is nocked on the string, then shoot it into a target and see which way the mark has rotated. Some shafts will rotate clockwise and some will rotate anticlockwise, even from the same dozen. I have found the vast majority will rotate one way or the other.

For example, I may have nine shafts rotate clockwise and three rotate anticlockwise from the same dozen.

Some people will put the helical on to match the shafts natural rotation. IOW, a clockwise rotating shaft will get right helical and visa versa.

I believe the general consensus is that it doesn't matter which way you fletch the shaft in relation to its natural rotation; but instead fletch the shaft for the best clearance and stabilization.

[DRT]

It's no wonder the immigrants from Europe were able to annihilate and subdue the Native American population.
They were centripetally, gyrationally, and oscilationally handicapped.

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[DRT]

And my work peers tell me i over think things. [emoji23]

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[sweetinlow660]

Hell my brace height was off by over an inch 2 weeks ago, so I'm probably not your go to guy on this one

[DRT]

Honestly if the direction of twist on a string can make a difference in the balanced flight of my arrows I would twist it accordingly.

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[Bleu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHyqiDyFFXE

[LAW]

Depends on what Bisch says.

[SwampRabbit]

An arrow may be predisposition to spin during flight from shaft asymmetry (out of round), a less than perfectly straight arrow (even carbon) or poor nock/insert alignment. Vanes, feathers, etc., stabilize the arrow and forces it to spin more consistently. I have put wraps on bareshafts to get the same weight as fletched arrows and if the wrap has a logo, it is often not in the same position in the target as it was on the bow.

I could see this, but wouldn't have figured the seam would have played that big of a role during the short flight time. But it is a force.

A bare shaft will rotate the direction the string is twisted, as stated above this was determined by high speed photography and I just heard about this a month or so ago. Some of the big target shooters are actually matching helical fletching and the direction of the string twist. I have not personally seen the video but a mark of somekind was put on the shaft to make it more visible to determine rotation direction.

I'm having a hard time with this one. The string's internal, friction based force that is being exerted perpendicular and equally at the point of the nock from the shaft doesn't seem to me to be something that should have any bearing. And then even so, the forces of a string are to impart either side to side forces or direct forces in the plane of the shaft.

Yes, it is called clocking, and there is no way to know for sure which way a shaft is going to clock (rotate).

Clocking is when we make a mark on the bareshaft, say at the top when it is nocked on the string, then shoot it into a target and see which way the mark has rotated. Some shafts will rotate clockwise and some will rotate anticlockwise, even from the same dozen. I have found the vast majority will rotate one way or the other.

For example, I may have nine shafts rotate clockwise and three rotate anticlockwise from the same dozen.

Some people will put the helical on to match the shafts natural rotation. IOW, a clockwise rotating shaft will get right helical and visa versa.

I believe the general consensus is that it doesn't matter which way you fletch the shaft in relation to its natural rotation; but instead fletch the shaft for the best clearance and stabilization.

Seems like it would be based on where the seam is of the shaft... that is where the weight is along the circumference of the shaft. Ideally, you should be able to put that shaft on a very level and smooth table and figure out where it will settle out.



What would be more interesting to understand really is how much rotation occurs. if you get a 1/4 of rotation over 20 yards... does it really matter? What you are looking for in stabilization is a bit more of a spin rate than that.

[Rat]

Seems like it would be based on where the seam is of the shaft... that is where the weight is along the circumference of the shaft. Ideally, you should be able to put that shaft on a very level and smooth table and figure out where it will settle out.

What would be more interesting to understand really is how much rotation occurs. if you get a 1/4 of rotation over 20 yards... does it really matter? What you are looking for in stabilization is a bit more of a spin rate than that.

It is pretty easy to figure out where the spine is on an arrow with a ram tester or by using the water method; we have been doing this for decades.

I am not sure of the vectors or the forces involved that impart this rotation in a bareshaft arrow, but it is there. The problem with knowing the rate of rotation is one of being able to actually see the rotation.

Let's say our mark goes from the 12 O'clock position to the 6 O'clock position; did the arrow rotate only 180° or has it made 1.5 rotations (450°)? Hard to say.

When clocking we start very close, say three feet, and then infer the direction of rotation based on the mark's offset. The premise being that the arrow doesn't have the time to make a full rotation at this distance, but it isn't known really, only inferred.

This not something that is done on a regular basis, even by top shooters, that I know of; it is out there, but now widely practiced.

As SwampRabbit said, the fletching imparts much more force; enough so that it really doesn't effect the outcome of the shaft's natural tendency to rotation.

It is enough of a factor though that it has been explored by renown archers such as Bernie Pellerite and Randy Ulmer in books and articles. Both if which, IIRC, do not actually tune to the shaft's initial rotation, but only mention it as one of the forces on an arrow and in relation to the distance an arrow travels before true stabilization begins. The inference being that some arrows will take a bit longer for the fletching to induce rotation due to having to overcome the shaft's natural inclination to rotate the other direction. To be fair, there is a difference, but it isn't much; and there is high speed video somewhere, if I can find it again I will post it here.

[Lawhunter]

Depends on the angle of the dangle I suppose.

Nailed it

[Rat]

Here is an article by Donnie Thacker on clocking, he is a top shooter who uses clocking in his arrow tuning process.

Arrow Clocking by Donnie Thacker

[Bruiser86]

Mind blown...


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[RickBarbee]

The short answer to your question is - Yes, it is.

BUT the difference to a finger shooter is so minimal as to NEVER be able to tell the difference one way or the other in just the shooting.

What you have to keep in mind here is - all of this testing is done using releases, or shooting machines. Once you put your fingers on the string all that changes.

The arrow don't know which way your string is twisted, and your fingers (torque there of) are going to skew the result of a twist difference anyway.

"IF" you can actually see a physical difference, your nocks are probably way to tight on the string.

Rick

EDIT for a P.S.

I can fletch my arrows with a mixed left & right offset/helical, and they will fly & group together/the same, even with broadheads. Once my rig is tuned for good arrow flight the offset just don't make any difference.