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Old 01-19-2017, 11:16 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick1 View Post
Just for fun I ran some numbers on Quickload comparing 260 vs. Creed. Max loads, no cherry picking, with 2 popular bullets and 2 popular powders for both rounds. 24" barrels for both. Picked H4350 and RL17, along with Hornady 143 ELD-X and Berger 130 VLD Hunter. Results below per QL:

RL17/Berger 130
Creed - 45.3gr = 3,011fps
260 - 43.8gr = 2,961fps

RL17/143 ELD-X
Creed - 43.2gr = 2,861fps
260 - 41.7gr = 2,810fps

H4350/Berger 130
Creed - 45.0gr = 2,908fps
260 - 43.4gr = 2,849fps

H4350/143 ELD-X
Creed - 43.0gr = 2,771fps
260 - 41.4gr = 2,712fps

Now ya'll quit picking on the little 6.5-250
Ragins head is gonna explode
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:19 PM   #52
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Default New Hornady 6.5 PRC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick1 View Post
Just for fun I ran some numbers on Quickload comparing 260 vs. Creed. Max loads, no cherry picking, with 2 popular bullets and 2 popular powders for both rounds. 24" barrels for both. Picked H4350 and RL17, along with Hornady 143 ELD-X and Berger 130 VLD Hunter. Results below per QL:

RL17/Berger 130
Creed - 45.3gr = 3,011fps
260 - 43.8gr = 2,961fps

RL17/143 ELD-X
Creed - 43.2gr = 2,861fps
260 - 41.7gr = 2,810fps

H4350/Berger 130
Creed - 45.0gr = 2,908fps
260 - 43.4gr = 2,849fps

H4350/143 ELD-X
Creed - 43.0gr = 2,771fps
260 - 41.4gr = 2,712fps

Now ya'll quit picking on the little 6.5-250


I gotta get Mike D to cross reference all this.


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Old 01-19-2017, 11:25 PM   #53
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The Creed is rated to 62K while the 260 is held to 60K. A little unfair advantage built in
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:29 PM   #54
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The Creed is rated to 62K while the 260 is held to 60K. A little unfair advantage built in


They both too **** slow then.


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Old 01-19-2017, 11:34 PM   #55
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Lol. Well.................yeah
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:09 AM   #56
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They both too **** slow then.


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I like the way you think! Lol
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:01 AM   #57
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This is an enjoyable thread. Lol. I'm as big a fan of the 260 as anyone can be and fought the Creed craze for awhile. But after working with a metric ton of them over the past couple of years, I've found some respect for little the round If you load both of them to their SAAMI max, the Creed actually beats the 260. The Creed has a bunch of other advantages that have nothing to do with speed, but that's another story. I still reach for the flashy/modern 264WM when somethings gotta die


Robert I'd be interesting in hearing about all of the other advantages you feel the Creed has over the 260?


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Old 01-20-2017, 11:29 AM   #58
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The 6.5 creed has already made the 260 an obsolete cartridge.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:31 AM   #59
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The 6.5 creed has already made the 260 an obsolete cartridge.


Yeah that's why Hornady started loading the 260 again recently. It had nothing to do with a Creed. That was all Remington.


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Old 01-20-2017, 11:43 AM   #60
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LMMFAO!!!! The 6.5 is a reduced 260 and the 6 creed is a reduced 243 win. Fills no niche.

You can get over 3000 with a 6.5X284 Norma with a 140. Standard 140 on a 6.5 Creed is 2700. So if your at 2925 with a Creed and a 140 you're hot loading the hell out of it.

Hornady 143 ELDX 6.5 Needmoor.


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My 6.5x284 is a cooper and I can't load it as hot as my buddy does his hill country rifle. I need to mess around with the head spacing a bit to see if it gets better.

It shoots really good but I wouldn't have purchased had I known about the 6.5 creedmoor at the time.

Please send over your recipe to get a 140 over 3000 in your 284.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:49 AM   #61
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It's all about sales, marketing and the benchrest guys. Remington never puts the marketing needed behind their new cartridges.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:51 AM   #62
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My 6.5x284 is a cooper and I can't load it as hot as my buddy does his hill country rifle. I need to mess around with the head spacing a bit to see if it gets better.



It shoots really good but I wouldn't have purchased had I known about the 6.5 creedmoor at the time.



Please send over your recipe to get a 140 over 3000 in your 284.


I think you may have mis understood. When I said over I meant a few fps as in a few not 50-100 etc. make sure you don't take this personal. I have lots of buddy's with a Creed. It's just a back and fourth ribbing thing nothing more. But 52 grains of R19 will put you right at 3000-3010 depending on barrel. I don't have a 6.5 Norma. I have one friend over my way that I shoot with does. I have a 26 Nosler. I don't know what primer or bullet seating he's running. I can try and find out. He's running a 27" barrel though. 27" is odd to me. I guess he liked Lazzeroni too much lol.


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Old 01-20-2017, 12:20 PM   #63
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I'm don't take it personally. I bought the x284 to get the most performance I could out of a non magnum 6.5 cartridge. It has a 25" barrel (buddy's is 24"). It just hasn't performed that much better than the 6.5 creedmoor (all things considered). Both are extremely lethal. My buddy is a 6.5 fanatic and has almost all of the non magnum cartridges. He likes his 6.5x55 the best.

I would like to get more performance out of the x284. 53gr of RL19 is 3100 fps with a 120 TTSX. On a hot day the bolt will stick with 53gr. The recoil indicates it's a hot load as well but the brass shows no sign of pressure. Maybe my chrono is not accurate.
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:24 PM   #64
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Default New Hornady 6.5 PRC

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I'm don't take it personally. I bought the x284 to get the most performance I could out of a non magnum 6.5 cartridge. It has a 25" barrel (buddy's is 24"). It just hasn't performed that much better than the 6.5 creedmoor (all things considered). Both are extremely lethal. My buddy is a 6.5 fanatic and has almost all of the non magnum cartridges. He likes his 6.5x55 the best.



I would like to get more performance out of the x284. 53gr of RL19 is 3100 fps with a 120 TTSX. On a hot day the bolt will stick with 53gr. The recoil indicates it's a hot load as well but the brass shows no sign of pressure. Maybe my chrono is not accurate.


Hm. Can't help ya on that one. Mike D can I'm sure. I wasn't a 6.5X55 Swede myself. It's on the radar. I have a 26 Nos. so I want a Swede and if I ever do get an AR I would want it in 6.5 Grendel.

I want the Swede in a European rifle though. Either a Blaser or a Sauer 404 Elegance.

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Old 01-20-2017, 02:29 PM   #65
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Robert I'd be interesting in hearing about all of the other advantages you feel the Creed has over the 260?


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Mike, I love the fact that it will do its thing in an unmodified mag box on a 700 platform. The 260 often needs a wyatts and some machining to get to its optimum OAL. Considering there is virtually no performance advantage to either, the easier route to the same end just makes sense to me.

Ammo......Doesn't make a difference to folks like us who load most everything anyway, but it is a huge advantage for folks who don't. Hornady did their homework and actually got this one right. You can pick up true match grade ammo for it almost anywhere now days for 20 something bucks and expect to get 1/2MOA or better with it from any decent platform. Several different brands and bullet varieties at that. I wish I could say the same for the 260, but can't in today's market.

The only real advantage I could see the 260 had left was brass quality, but Lapua just knocked that one in the head.

Those are the reasons I favor the Creedmoor a little more than the 260 these days. The 260 AI is another story though
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Old 01-20-2017, 09:44 PM   #66
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I'm don't take it personally. I bought the x284 to get the most performance I could out of a non magnum 6.5 cartridge. It has a 25" barrel (buddy's is 24"). It just hasn't performed that much better than the 6.5 creedmoor (all things considered). Both are extremely lethal. My buddy is a 6.5 fanatic and has almost all of the non magnum cartridges. He likes his 6.5x55 the best.



I would like to get more performance out of the x284. 53gr of RL19 is 3100 fps with a 120 TTSX. On a hot day the bolt will stick with 53gr. The recoil indicates it's a hot load as well but the brass shows no sign of pressure. Maybe my chrono is not accurate.


My 6.5-284 shoots 3072fps with 8fps SD with a 26" barrel and 140 VLDs.

I'm not sharing load data because it may not be safe in your rifle but I use RL25 powder.


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Old 01-20-2017, 09:47 PM   #67
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Mike, I love the fact that it will do its thing in an unmodified mag box on a 700 platform. The 260 often needs a wyatts and some machining to get to its optimum OAL. Considering there is virtually no performance advantage to either, the easier route to the same end just makes sense to me.



Ammo......Doesn't make a difference to folks like us who load most everything anyway, but it is a huge advantage for folks who don't. Hornady did their homework and actually got this one right. You can pick up true match grade ammo for it almost anywhere now days for 20 something bucks and expect to get 1/2MOA or better with it from any decent platform. Several different brands and bullet varieties at that. I wish I could say the same for the 260, but can't in today's market.



The only real advantage I could see the 260 had left was brass quality, but Lapua just knocked that one in the head.



Those are the reasons I favor the Creedmoor a little more than the 260 these days. The 260 AI is another story though


I know all those and don't really see any of them as an advantage per se'. I wonder if you can push the 260 a little harder with small primer Palma brass.

I will say that I use QL religiously. I haven't done any load comparisons but I know what I load my 260 rounds at and it's not at SAAMI max and they are a hammer.

Speaking of installing a Wyatt's box, I need to bring you my 260.


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Old 01-20-2017, 11:50 PM   #68
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That's just it, you can certainly push it harder and up the numbers. But you're already starting behind the Creed at "max" loads for both cases. You are going to be over max just to catch it, and even farther over to pass it. The whole comparison hinges on SAAMI specs not being exceeded for both rounds. Past that threshold, who knows?

There are certainly rounds out there that safely exceed those guidelines by a good amount like the Roberts and 280 come to mind. But there were some unique circumstances in play when they were set that aren't that relevant today. However, both of the cases in this comparison are fairly recent designs, and I'd have to think the numbers are pretty realistic.

I have not had much luck hot-rodding the most recent 260 I worked with. You may well have better luck with the small primer brass. Either way, I don't see either one outperforming the other by any meaningful amount. I'd take either one and be happy with it, especially with the 130's. Starting from scratch I'd go Creed just because it's easier, but I wouldn't step over a 260 to get there.

Yeah, the sooner you get that mag box installed, the sooner you can start fitting more powder in that case
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:14 AM   #69
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Another thing to consider if your going to try to run the small primer brass at higher pressures in a Remington, you may end up needing to bush your FP hole.
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:08 AM   #70
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Another thing to consider if your going to try to run the small primer brass at higher pressures in a Remington, you may end up needing to bush your FP hole.


Good point.

Wonder how that's going to affect all the Creed rifles when Lapua releases their rumored small primer Creed brass?


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Old 01-21-2017, 11:10 AM   #71
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Good point.

Wonder how that's going to affect all the Creed rifles when Lapua releases their rumored small primer Creed brass?


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Mike what are the advantages of small primer brass??


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Old 01-21-2017, 11:42 AM   #72
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Mike what are the advantages of small primer brass??


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Supposedly more consistent ignition and the ability to run slightly higher pressure.


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Old 10-24-2017, 09:09 AM   #73
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It's coming!!
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:16 AM   #74
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It's coming!!
but where are the rifles...
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:21 AM   #75
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but where are the rifles...
Seekins Havak is available at Cabelas

Others on the way


Only seen the ammo in the hands of Seekins and GA Precision so it's probably not on shelves quite yet
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:34 PM   #76
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This pic from Hornady’s website makes me think this is really a long action cartridge
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:08 PM   #77
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Seekins Havak is available at Cabelas

Others on the way


Only seen the ammo in the hands of Seekins and GA Precision so it's probably not on shelves quite yet
Miwayusa has it.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:20 PM   #78
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We got our first batch of ammo this morning
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:29 PM   #79
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We got our first batch of ammo this morning
Thinking of offering your barreled actions in it.?
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:35 PM   #80
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We got our first batch of ammo this morning
What's the OAL of the loaded ammo?

Really waiting to see some real world velocities with factory and reloaded ammo.
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Old 10-31-2017, 10:14 PM   #81
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This factory image has me thinking this is a LA cartridge.
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:27 AM   #82
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Any more thoughts on this round? Is it a flash in the pan?
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:51 PM   #83
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Is that sucker belted? Why on earth did they decide to belt these?


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Old 11-22-2017, 05:57 PM   #84
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lol ya'll girls funny
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Old 11-22-2017, 06:18 PM   #85
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Is that sucker belted? Why on earth did they decide to belt these?


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Not belted. Also not LA cartridge
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Old 11-22-2017, 06:27 PM   #86
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Not belted. Also not LA cartridge


That makes more sense. So where did that pic three posts up come from? It looks like a win mag in the pic and thought surely they aren't going back to that again.


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Old 11-22-2017, 06:32 PM   #87
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No clue
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:46 AM   #88
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That makes more sense. So where did that pic three posts up come from? It looks like a win mag in the pic and thought surely they aren't going back to that again.


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I screen shot it off Hornady website, not sure why image is not accurate
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:31 AM   #89
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Default New Hornady 6.5 PRC

Does anyone know what the case capacity (grains of H2O) is?

I really donít know that this will offer anything over the 6.5-284. Mine is pushing 140 Bergers at just under 3100fps, shoots under 1/2Ē, with velocity SDs in the low single digits.


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Old 11-23-2017, 10:00 AM   #90
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Does anyone know what the case capacity (grains of H2O) is?

I really donít know that this will offer anything over the 6.5-284. Mine is pushing 140 Bergers at just under 3100fps, shoots under 1/2Ē, with velocity SDs in the low single digits.


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I did some water weight tests when our ammo came in a few weeks back. PRC had 2gr more capacity than 6.5-284. Not enough to make me switch if I was already running a 284. I'd consider it if starting from scratch, maybe.

I think with a little tweaking, the PRC case could offer a slight performance advantage over the GAP and the 284. The case head is already a better design than both. Working on a reamer now.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:18 PM   #91
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I did some water weight tests when our ammo came in a few weeks back. PRC had 2gr more capacity than 6.5-284. Not enough to make me switch if I was already running a 284. I'd consider it if starting from scratch, maybe.



I think with a little tweaking, the PRC case could offer a slight performance advantage over the GAP and the 284. The case head is already a better design than both. Working on a reamer now.


Is this really going to run in a short action or is going to need long action to get optimum performance?
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