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Old 06-04-2019, 02:32 PM   #51
TxAg
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Surprised they don't sell the suits with rhinestone belts and white sunglasses
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:53 PM   #52
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So when you play the wind correctly, and you take all the necessary scent control measures, and you are completely still, and you aren't creating an obvious silloutte for the deer to see, but yet you get busted, what is it?

There are thousands of Youtube videos on do's and don'ts. This product works. This one is a scam. Don't waste your money on this. This product is revolutionary. Blah Blah Blah.

I am a truck driver. I've been driving truck for over 20 years. People can tell you how it is to drive in the snow/ice. What works and what doesn't. But the best advice I received was from a guy when I first started driving. If you really want to know what will happen, get out there and experiment. Then you'll know for sure. So I tried it and know exactly what its like on snow and ice.

Does it hurt to try new products? I don't believe so. Is anything going to be proven here on the internet? Absolutely not. Especially when there are people on both sides of the argument/debate. It's the Ford/Chevy conversation.

I am not gonna say a deer lease or buying hunting property is a waste of money just because I can't afford it. I've wasted plenty of money in my life on things that are less useful than hunting clothing that may or may not work.

One thing is for certain. There isn't 100% of the people saying DON'T DO IT!!!

There also isn't 100% of the people saying its a can't miss. So the jury it still out and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. =)
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:16 PM   #53
JustinJ
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Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
So when you play the wind correctly, and you take all the necessary scent control measures, and you are completely still, and you aren't creating an obvious silloutte for the deer to see, but yet you get busted, what is it?

There are thousands of Youtube videos on do's and don'ts. This product works. This one is a scam. Don't waste your money on this. This product is revolutionary. Blah Blah Blah.

I am a truck driver. I've been driving truck for over 20 years. People can tell you how it is to drive in the snow/ice. What works and what doesn't. But the best advice I received was from a guy when I first started driving. If you really want to know what will happen, get out there and experiment. Then you'll know for sure. So I tried it and know exactly what its like on snow and ice.

Does it hurt to try new products? I don't believe so. Is anything going to be proven here on the internet? Absolutely not. Especially when there are people on both sides of the argument/debate. It's the Ford/Chevy conversation.

I am not gonna say a deer lease or buying hunting property is a waste of money just because I can't afford it. I've wasted plenty of money in my life on things that are less useful than hunting clothing that may or may not work.

One thing is for certain. There isn't 100% of the people saying DON'T DO IT!!!

There also isn't 100% of the people saying its a can't miss. So the jury it still out and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. =)
LOL the jury is not out. Science says it doesn't work. No matter how many anecdotal reports you get. It simply doesn't work. Feel free to spend your money on it and I hope you get good results. At the end of the day, science says you won't have any benefit by wearing HECS.

Do you really think that it wouldn't fly off the shelves if it was proven to actually work? Do you not think they would advertise the hell out of it? Do you not think every hunting publication would advertise the hell out of it? It would be widely known and publicized and proven if it actually worked. Instead its just a few dudes who they pay to say it works. It will go away like every other radical innovation that is the next God send to hunting.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:28 AM   #54
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LOL the jury is not out. Science says it doesn't work. No matter how many anecdotal reports you get. It simply doesn't work. Feel free to spend your money on it and I hope you get good results. At the end of the day, science says you won't have any benefit by wearing HECS.

Do you really think that it wouldn't fly off the shelves if it was proven to actually work? Do you not think they would advertise the hell out of it? Do you not think every hunting publication would advertise the hell out of it? It would be widely known and publicized and proven if it actually worked. Instead its just a few dudes who they pay to say it works. It will go away like every other radical innovation that is the next God send to hunting.
You say it doesn't work. You say the only ones who claim it does are paid. What about the individuals on this board who say it works? They aren't paid. What about Ozonics? I say it works and I'm not paid? I don't like to use the measuring stick of, "they are paid spokesman so it must be a scam" all the time. That card is played out way too often. There are plenty of products out there that work great but don't fly off the shelves. In my short period of hunting, one thing I have learned about most hunters. They are conservative in their approach. There is too much information for both sides of the argument to say yes or no without hesitation.

How long has HECS been out? Not the technology but the actual product?
I find it very curious that people who aren't paid, and I have ready countless articles of testimony about there personal experiences, are jumping in with both feet.

I will go to the extreme. Why do we need any technology? Even the wind?
200 years ago, they killed dear by just going out and looking for deer. Didn't seem to effect them? Man has managed to get more intelligent over the years. It's not too far fetched to believe they have tapped into something here as well. It would also be naive of all of us to stick our heads in the sand and say "blah blah blah, its snake oil, scam, don't waste your money". Next thing I'll be hearing you say is, GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:28 AM   #55
sir shovelhands
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Um Ya. Can you provide a little more credibility then that? It's easy to throw out information on a website without needing to qualify your statement. Since I am the original poster, I was asking about people had actually had experience. If your just gonna poke holes in the theory/science of the gear without real world hands on experience, your point has no validity to me.
I believe what he's saying is that the earth produces a magnetic field at surface that is magnitudes larger than that which a human produces. So basically, if animals can see magnetic fields, it would be akin to seeing a match burning in a bonfire.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:45 AM   #56
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Here is an interesting article and really dives into the mystery of magnetic fields and how little we do or don't know about them.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/no.../#.XPvk2ohKiUk

There is endless information about the tried and true practices of whitetail deer hunting. Until this area runs the gauntlet, it will continue to receive scrutiny about its validity.

Think of it like this. Investing in something after it is already been around for a while is easy. Investing in something that is new takes guts.
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Old 06-08-2019, 10:48 PM   #57
sir shovelhands
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Here is an interesting article and really dives into the mystery of magnetic fields and how little we do or don't know about them.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/no.../#.XPvk2ohKiUk
Actually we know quite a lot about magnetic fields; we're at the point where we can build pretty accurate models of the electromagnetic fields of planets and stars. What the article says is we don't know much about the biological mechanism for sensing it in animals. And I've yet to find a study showing deer can sense a magnetic field as small as one created by a human. They've only indicated that they can sense the earth's EMF and use it for navigation.

Quote:
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There is endless information about the tried and true practices of whitetail deer hunting. Until this area runs the gauntlet, it will continue to receive scrutiny about its validity.
As it should. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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Think of it like this. Investing in something after it is already been around for a while is easy. Investing in something that is new takes guts.
I laughed at this. This isn't a penny stock where you can lose your *** or make a huge return, it's clothing. Being a late adopter is definitely the smarter move in this case.
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:04 AM   #58
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There's a sucker born every minute!!
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Old 06-09-2019, 05:24 AM   #59
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It seems to me that you have already made up your mind that it works, and are looking for enough reports from users to confirm your decision so that you can justify buying it.
If you want it, can afford the expense, and it will make you more confident in the stand.... then buy it.

Me, personally... I have never had a statistical increase in sightings with any fairy dust product.
I don’t run ozonics, don’t use scent suits, don’t use hecs, don’t use cover scents, and don’t use lure scents...


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Old 06-14-2019, 07:33 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
It seems to me that you have already made up your mind that it works, and are looking for enough reports from users to confirm your decision so that you can justify buying it.
If you want it, can afford the expense, and it will make you more confident in the stand.... then buy it.

Me, personally... I have never had a statistical increase in sightings with any fairy dust product.
I don’t run ozonics, don’t use scent suits, don’t use hecs, don’t use cover scents, and don’t use lure scents...


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Do you hunt public land or lease? Please don't boast about how bad to bone you are and you see SOOOO much deer without any of the technological benefits and then you for lack of a better term, shoot fish in a barrel compared to public land hunting.

I hunt public land. I don't use a feeder. I don't have a stand that stays in the field year round. I don't have high fences to keep the deer from getting too far.

Some of you guys poke a hole in this stuff because you think it costs too much money. Then you'll go spend $3-5k on a deer lease before any additional costs. LOLOLOL

Who is blowing through the cash now?

FTR. I don't need justification from others. If I want to spend the money, I'll do it. I don't live in a vacuum though. I'm not gonna stick my head in the sand. Not every new product is fairy dust or snake oil as some have labeled it. Just ask yourself a very honest question. If you have never tried it, can you truly give a educated analysis of it? Or are you that guy sitting on your rocking chair on his front porch telling his kids about when he went to school, it was uphill both ways in the snow without any shoes on and still did it with a smile.

Gimme a break.

Last edited by Blitz; 06-14-2019 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:40 AM   #61
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"So when you play the wind correctly, and you take all the necessary scent control measures, and you are completely still, and you aren't creating an obvious silloutte for the deer to see, but yet you get busted, what is it?"

When I do all of these things, I don't get busted. Sometimes I'm amazed at what deer don't see. If you sit still, have your face at least partially obscured, and play the wind right, deer will look right through you, Hecs or no Hecs.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:19 AM   #62
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I think scent control is main thing. If a Hecs suit actually works, would it work if you sat around a campfire in it guzzling beer, fajitas, and cigars and then wore it to the stand the next morning?
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:26 AM   #63
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Do you hunt public land or lease? Please don't boast about how bad to bone you are and you see SOOOO much deer without any of the technological benefits and then you for lack of a better term, shoot fish in a barrel compared to public land hunting.

I hunt public land. I don't use a feeder. I don't have a stand that stays in the field year round. I don't have high fences to keep the deer from getting too far.

Some of you guys poke a hole in this stuff because you think it costs too much money. Then you'll go spend $3-5k on a deer lease before any additional costs. LOLOLOL

Who is blowing through the cash now?

FTR. I don't need justification from others. If I want to spend the money, I'll do it. I don't live in a vacuum though. I'm not gonna stick my head in the sand. Not every new product is fairy dust or snake oil as some have labeled it. Just ask yourself a very honest question. If you have never tried it, can you truly give a educated analysis of it? Or are you that guy sitting on your rocking chair on his front porch telling his kids about when he went to school, it was uphill both ways in the snow without any shoes on and still did it with a smile.

Gimme a break.

Wooooowwww buddy, slow down the snowflakery

To answer a few of your “questions” which are more accurately “angrily lashing out because you felt offended”

1. I hunt almost exclusively public land.... I sat 1 single sit on a small piece of private land all last season. And 2 private land sits the whole season before that. I too hunt without feeders, without permanent stands, without food plots, without high fences... soo... I don’t know what you were trying to prove with that.

2. I didn’t say anything about having better skills than anyone.

3. I didn’t claim to see “soooo much deer” though, I think you meant many. What I said was that I haven’t seen a statistical difference between hunting without gadgets/scent gear/fancy camo patterns... and hunting without them. Anecdotal, one off experiences that can’t be replicated are not in my opinion supportive evidence. So, if I don’t notice consistent supportive evidence of a product working as advertised, I stop using it. As such, I have slowly shed most, if not all, of the gear sold to “help hunters” see deer. I instead work on improving my knowledge of deer movement, entry and exit routes, and understanding of wind/thermal interactions to fine tune the efficacy of my setups.

4. I have never shot an ungulate out of a barrel. In fact, I don’t even think they would fit on one.

5. I don’t give a rats behind how you spend your money. In fact, I believe I stated as much in my comment that “if you want it, can afford it, and it makes you feel more confident... buy it”

Another poster mentioned that trying to silence anyone discussing the actual validity of the claims of the product, and only wanting anecdotal evidence from people financially bought into the idea already, was a statistically biased approach. I agree with him.

I stand by my original assessment that you were leaning towards buying it regardless, and wanted supporting evidence to support you assumptions. I also stand by my original advise... if you want a product, can afford it, and it will make you happy/confident in the task you use it for....... BUY IT. You have no need to justify it further than that, or to anyone but yourself.


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Old 06-14-2019, 08:44 AM   #64
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It works on fish, we can’t prove whether or not it works on mammals yet.


However.


People in HECS suits have been able to get away with some weird stuff within 5-15 yards of deer, turkeys and predators. If you have the money, try it out. But I’d say if you want to test it, make your first sit in an area where you know does travel. Sit as close to the path as possible on the ground and just see what happens.


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Old 06-14-2019, 08:48 AM   #65
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Wooooowwww buddy, slow down the snowflakery
To answer a few of your “questions” which are more accurately “angrily lashing out because you felt offended”


Another poster mentioned that trying to silence anyone discussing the actual validity of the claims of the product, and only wanting anecdotal evidence from people financially bought into the idea already, was a statistically biased approach. I agree with him.



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This makes me laugh.

If you have 10 people you are asking about a product. 5 have used it and 5 haven't. Which 5 are you going to listen to for accurate and "unbiased" opinions?

I can sit here and talk about things all day that I have never actually tried and try and bridge the gap with past experiences but unless I take something for a test drive, how will I truly know?

So you know, I decided to spend my money for this year on something else. That doesn't mean I won't buy it. That doesn't mean I don't believe it. Just simply means I have a budget.

Think about all the things you use to deer hunt with. Do an itemized inventory of what you have. Do you need all of it? Does it help you? I say, once you have purchased it, you have made a decision to try it. If you keep using/buying it, your a believer.

I didn't mean to cast you in some sort of "I'm on a pedastal" light. TBH, when an individual says, I don't do any of that and still.............etc, then of course like others are doing with this product, I draw conclusions.

One thing is for sure. I love tech. I love gadgets. I don't mind spending money on something to give me an edge. I'm not trying to make it harder to hunt. I'm trying to make it easier. I purchased a thermal monocular so I can scan the woods quickly and know if there is movement. This is me. The price of something shouldn't be the measuring stick of its success. Let's first see if it works or not. Then once we have answered that question, we can determine if its right for us. I see countless individuals trying to lump these 2 together and you can't do that. It's 2 separate questions.

1. Does it work? Some say yes and some say no. I don't own one so IDK.
2. Can I afford it? Only you can answer that question.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:56 AM   #66
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I am not a believer,,,and I will not buy for one until they can actually prove it does work,,,, which they have not done, their "program" is an infomercial they pay to have put on tv,,,,, how can they prove it works ? you can not duplicate the exact same scenario over and over with or without the suit,,, and that is the only way you could prove yea or nay......

I have been hunting over 50 years and have seen and killed deer who saw me and those who did not,,, I have watched a deer go nose to nose with my dad and him blow a smoke ring around the deer's head,,, while wearing white shirt! We watched the deer hit the smoke trail and follow it right up to his face.....

I have been close enough to touch a deer bare handed twice,, neither time did I have a gadget that made me invisible neither time did I have a face mask on,,,, those deer were simply not alert!

I have tried to get others to run off by talking to them,, they stood there and stared at me, both times I did have a mask on,,, no oxonics, heck suit or cover scent..... just different days different places different wind.

does a hecs suit work, who knows but they have not proven it .

so in my experience,, location, camo, cover, and wind have far more effect than any magic suit,,, maybe it will work, but I will not be a buyer until it is proven. Until then it is just a gimmick

Last edited by xman59; 06-14-2019 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:23 AM   #67
IkemanTX
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So when you play the wind correctly, and you take all the necessary scent control measures, and you are completely still, and you aren't creating an obvious silloutte for the deer to see, but yet you get busted, what is it?


On a more constructive note...
when these instances happen to me, I deep dive into my system and setup to see what might have tipped the deer off. If I am positive I didn’t hear any noise I made that could have tipped them off....

First off,
I will immediately start dropping milkweed seed fluff. I use it as a wind indicator instead of a puff bottle because I can watch what the wind is doing for long distances. You can watch the stuff zig and zag, lift and fall for as far as your eyes can pick it out. I can’t tell you how many times I thought my setup was rock solid until I started dropping milkweed and found swirls of wind betray me that I would have never known otherwise. There are a couple dynamite pinch points I just can’t sit because of wind quirks that bring my wind 180° back into the deer trail after leaving me.

Secondly,
I have rid all my equipment of reflective surfaces. I didn’t realize how bad these could be until I left all my gear in the tree and followed the path of a deer that busted me... caught a super bright reflection off a 1/2” exposed section of polished steel on a carabiner. Looked like a dang spotlight at midnight. There’s no way she could have missed me. Now, everything is either a matte surface, fabric covered, or painted with a flat paint.

Thirdly,
I evaluate my back cover and clothing choice. If I set up against a dense cedar to have good back cover, am I now a human shaped brown camo pattern against that homogenous dark green backdrop? Was it the opposite, where I was skylined from an unexpected angle?

Fourthly,
deer are known to be able to see partially into the UV spectrums (significantly higher than humans) due to the fact their corneas don’t have a UV filter like our eyes. This is probably a biological adaptation to improve nighttime vision. Most commercially available clothing detergents contain UV brighteners to give your clothing a more vivid “new” look. Some clothing also comes with semi-permanent UV brightening built in... UV brighteners, although invisible to us, WILL make you visible to deer in some lighting situations. You almost lightly glow blue from their point of view. A very unnatural sight.

Fifthly,
I have watched deer pick off my climbing stick and follow them right up to me in the tree. I have a hunting buddy that experienced the same thing two seasons ago. I haven’t camo’d them yet, but it is on the to-do list because of this. Also, I use fabric aiders to add climbing height without adding another stick... these can blow some in the wind and have been picked off as well. I am going to be moving to a single aider that I bring up the tree with me to help further reduce this possibility.

Sixthly,
Is that specific spot in that tree a spot that animal has experienced before? Had they been conditioned to look into it? I had a camera once catch a doe and fawn smelling my entry/exit trail right up to the tree I used, and smell as high up the trunk as they could reach. With enough exposure to treestand hunters, perhaps that doe now registers that as a danger to watch out for.

And seventhly, (probably the most overlooked)
Much of my gear is old and repurposed. I have found that since the fabric throughout the garment is the same, it fades into relatively similar shades of the colors that were printed on them. Sometimes, the original printed colors of the pattern are VERY close in shade as well. This can come across as a homogenous blob, removing depth of field from a spot. This is a very unnatural thing to see in nature, as limbs, bark, leaves, and grasses all present dappled lighting patterns thanks to their highly varied textures. Our clothing can’t mimic this complexity. I have stopped using solid fronts like printed burlap on ground blinds for this exact reason. They stick out like a sore thumb. Our clothing can present the same problem.


I may be wrong, but every time I am busted I assume it was something I overlooked and can be further refined in future setups. That’s a lot of why I like hunting public land run-n-gun. I get failures consistently, which means consistent opportunities to improve and consistent exposure to variables I hadn’t taken into account before. To me, that’s what makes it addicting.



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