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Old 09-19-2017, 10:45 AM   #1
Arrowsmith
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Talking Why Most Archery Public Land DIY OTC Elk Hunts End Up......

Being expensive camping trips.......

Believe me. I have had my share of tag soup over the years so I speak from experience. Also notice I said "most" elk hunts. We all have stories of that person who kills his or her elk one hour into their hunt. With an average success rate of 10% on any archery elk (bull or cow) most hunters fall into the 90% unsuccessful category. This is not all bad. Any experience in the mountains in the fall is awesome. The preparation, the anticipation, days spent in the cool mountain air make it worthwhile.

Now for some of the reasons most DIY OTC public land archery elk hunts end up being expensive camping trips......

1. Elk hunting is HARD!!! It does not matter how much you plan. It does not matter how much you study Google Earth and maps. It does not matter how much you train or even if you pre-season scout. It is hard to close the deal on an elk with your bow.

2. Most hunters commit to an area that simply does not have many or any elk. Elk are very mobile creatures and they cover a lot of ground everyday. Where they were at yesterday has no bearing on where they will be today or tomorrow. And you hear hunters say.....but there was so much sign there. They only sign I have confidence in is seeing elk or steaming droppings anything else could be from yesterday, or last week or last month. Be mobile. Cover a lot of ground.

3. Many hunters wear themselves out in the first 2-3 days. The physical exertion, stress and altitude take a toll. I have seen guys go home after 3 days. You have to pace yourself.

4. Not enough time. The country that elk inhabit is BIG and the elk are few and far between. It takes time to locate them. In most cases you are finally closing in on them about the time you have to go home.

5. Hunting the national forest is tough. The elk that are there are conditioned to calls and are very wary of hunters. I was talking to a Hispanic sheep herder in the Uncompahgre National Forest one year. He spoke no English, but I speak a little Spanish. I asked him if he had been seeing any elk in the area. He said "Yes.....many, many elk....all summer...until guys dressed like you (camo) arrived. Then all the elk left". Not much else needs to be said about public land pressure. On the other hand private lands are elk magnets. The elk definitely know where they are safe and where they are not safe. Hunt private land if possible.

6. Most elk hunters do not go in far enough. National forest gets a lot of pressure. The elk will migrate away from the pressure. If you do hike in several miles be prepared to camp there if you find elk.

Good luck, Have fun, Enjoy you time in the mountains and don't be discouraged if you do not get one. It's a tough hunt.

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Old 09-19-2017, 10:47 AM   #2
Aggiehunter08
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Glorified camping trip Great write-up
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:54 AM   #3
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Did my first trip to CO this year and the learning curve was immense. We did get off the beaten path and as far back in as we could. I learned allot about calling. 6 days of hard work and we did end up teaming up on a cow. Me calling and my buddy shooting. I realize that for first timers we got extremely lucky but we did our homework and chose a unit that is notoriously hard to bow hunt simply because we thought there would be less pressure. And there was. Playing the wind is huge!!! Especially when you are living out of a tent, in the dirt and wearing the same clothes for so long.
I can't tell you how many times we got on elk and only figured it out when we were watching them trot off from being winded.

Needless to say, I am hooked. I can't wait for next year!!
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:58 AM   #4
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Sounds like most of my local hunting trips too.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:59 AM   #5
AntlerCollector
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Good stuff
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:02 AM   #6
RiverRat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoof View Post
Did my first trip to CO this year and the learning curve was immense. We did get off the beaten path and as far back in as we could. I learned allot about calling. 6 days of hard work and we did end up teaming up on a cow. Me calling and my buddy shooting. I realize that for first timers we got extremely lucky but we did our homework and chose a unit that is notoriously hard to bow hunt simply because we thought there would be less pressure. And there was. Playing the wind is huge!!! Especially when you are living out of a tent, in the dirt and wearing the same clothes for so long.
I can't tell you how many times we got on elk and only figured it out when we were watching them trot off from being winded.

Needless to say, I am hooked. I can't wait for next year!!
If I don't get drawn I want to try again DYI in CO. Let me know if you need another hunter next year.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:04 AM   #7
Floor Man
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Truer words have never been spoken. It is tough even in draw units when hunting public land. If I told most people the things I've done physically to take the few animals I've been fortunate enough to take out west- most wouldn't want to go. I'll be in the high country again in a couple of weeks hunting deer with my Dad though. I miss the mountains but we definitely have a love/hate relationship.


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Old 09-19-2017, 11:08 AM   #8
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I am about to do a write up on this exact thing. Im one of those dudes you talked about this year.
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Old 09-19-2017, 03:18 PM   #9
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I cooked some elk steaks on Sunday and couldn't help but note that it was the most expensive cut of meat I have eaten in my life. But it really comes down to the adventure and camaraderie. Worth every penny. It's like paying thousands to head to an all inclusive resort. Only everybody is sober and suffering. The good kind of suffering. My kind of camping trip.


-------------------------------
Violence never settles anything
-Genghis Kahn
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:41 PM   #10
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I did it two years ago.
I would like to do it again
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floor Man View Post
Truer words have never been spoken. It is tough even in draw units when hunting public land. If I told most people the things I've done physically to take the few animals I've been fortunate enough to take out west- most wouldn't want to go. I'll be in the high country again in a couple of weeks hunting deer with my Dad though. I miss the mountains but we definitely have a love/hate relationship.


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You have killed some good ones John. I know how hard you had to work for them.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlgorman View Post
I am about to do a write up on this exact thing. Im one of those dudes you talked about this year.
I read your post. Great recap of your hunt. Been there, done that. No one will believe how hard it is until you have done it. You gained some hard earned and valuable experience. Keep after them!!!! Here is a picture from one of my pack in hunts in the Lizard Head Wilderness. Our camp was at 11,250 ft.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:37 PM   #13
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True words on # 3, 4 & 6, I've witnessed our hunt cut short because guys calling it quits. Last time I elk hunted (19 days) I went alone & hopefully next year will be another
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:43 PM   #14
JustinJ
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I've been on plenty of glorified expensive camping trips. Im ready for a hunt!
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:45 PM   #15
Dandy123
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That's why I usually go west for antelope on public land. 7 years strait are whole camp has filled our tags
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:13 PM   #16
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This was my sixth year in a row to go - since we started back. This was my first year to not at least draw on an elk. I've killed two bulls in 6 years, and not connected on 3 other trips. All that being said, I've already started preparing for next year. It is one of the best experiences ever. We have a great camp and look forward to it every year.

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Old 09-19-2017, 10:29 PM   #17
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Good thread
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:45 AM   #18
BTLowry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowsmith View Post
I read your post. Great recap of your hunt. Been there, done that. No one will believe how hard it is until you have done it. You gained some hard earned and valuable experience. Keep after them!!!! Here is a picture from one of my pack in hunts in the Lizard Head Wilderness. Our camp was at 11,250 ft.
Attachment 873411
Not sure where we hunted but Lizard Head was one of the nearby passes or something because I remember that name

I think we were in San Juan but I would have to look at some maps as it was years ago
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:13 AM   #19
flywise
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Its always worth every penny spent.
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Old 09-20-2017, 07:16 AM   #20
axisbuck
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Great stuff for beginniers looking into archery elk. Would it be any better using the boom stick success wise if you are running out of time?
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:01 AM   #21
DRT
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I've done four DIY hunts many years ago. I truly loved it but at a time in life where having limited time and resources I chose to use them to hunt more closer to home. Now I'm older and have more discretionary time and money but I'm not sure I'm physically up for that any more. An outfitted drop camp is more appealing to me.

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Old 09-20-2017, 08:08 AM   #22
the-butcher
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Me and a buddy are starting to plan this for next year.

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Old 09-20-2017, 08:10 AM   #23
Brett C
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I love private land
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:20 AM   #24
huntmaster
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when I lived in the Rockies(Colorado-2yrs, Montana-1.5yrs, Wyoming - 4yrs) I was in my late 20's and in very good shape. I was able to scout daily because I was in the oilfield and had to travel between rigs daily. I would find a spot where the elk would be and could almost set my clock by them. But when opening day came and the sea of orange converged on the mountains, poof they were gone. I had a friend with an airplane and we could witness herds moving 25-30miles over night. so yes elk hunting is very hard but dog gone it was great to see some of the things I saw that has been played back in my memory for many years and many to come. I did manage to get a couple.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:49 AM   #25
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This was to be the year for my first lesson. Harvey occurred and I volunteered to respond. While I missed out on an opportunity to learn about elk hunting, I witness a lot of human generosity/compassion that has helped restore some of my faith in humanity... If I had to do it over again, I would volunteer again and hope for an opportunity to assist folks in need.

Having stated this, I am already planning for next year, taking notes and will be asking a lot of questions. Hopefully more experianced hunters will share their experiances and insight. Here are a couple of questions that come to mind just from reading the original post:

1) Is it best to hunt the start of bow season or towards the end?? I ask due to my curiosity as to whether everyone shows up the first week or even a week prior putting all of the elk on edge and on the move. Would hunting the latter part of the season allow for less pressure and elk to have settled in to less movement??

2) I understand the concept of getting far away from the roads. I am however concerned that when I defy the odd and kill an elk I will be hard pressed to perserve the meat?? This also plays a bit in the hunting later on during the season as I imaging temps would be cooler. Some of you experianced hunters please in part and or share your wisdom...

Big thanks to the OP and the fellas that have added information...

Last edited by Pedernal; 09-20-2017 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:12 AM   #26
stinkbelly
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I have done the DIY bow elk hunt 8 times. I have shot at elk twice and taken one elk (missed the other). I have seen a few elk on public land near access points, but the majority of them were more than 3 miles in. They acted pretty normal when you get 9 miles in.

One thing that I always remember is something that I heard early on in my elk hunting career "make something happen". If nothing is happening, "make something happen". Don't just keep doing the same thing if it isn't working.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:16 AM   #27
stykshooter
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I recommend that all flatlanders give a go, one day license & will may be out of reach, 1974 cost was 25.00 for either sex.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:19 AM   #28
RiverRat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedernal View Post
This was to be the year for my first lesson. Harvey occurred and I volunteered to respond. While I missed out on an opportunity to learn about elk hunting, I witness a lot of human generosity/compassion that has helped restore some of my faith in humanity... If I had to do it over again, I would volunteer again and hope for an opportunity to assist folks in need.

Having stated this, I am already planning for next year, taking notes and will be asking a lot of questions. Hopefully more experianced hunters will share their experiances and insight. Here are a couple of questions that come to mind just from reading the original post:

1) Is it best to hunt the start of bow season or towards the end?? I ask due to my curiosity as to whether everyone shows up the first week or even a week prior putting all of the elk on edge and on the move. Would hunting the latter part of the season allow for less pressure and elk to have settled in to less movement??

2) I understand the concept of getting far away from the roads. I am however concerned that when I defy the odd and kill an elk I will be hard pressed to perserve the meat?? This also plays a bit in the hunting later on during the season as I imaging temps would be cooler. Some of you experianced hunters please in part and or share your wisdom...

Big thanks to the OP and the fellas that have added information...
1 - Depends on how hot it is and if you will be hunting private or public lands. IMO - Later is better because you can sometimes hear them.
2 - I wouldn't worry about it. Be prepared to work your rear off when you get one. You pay the State money for the elk. I never waste meat even on hogs but if I pay for an elk and can't get all the meat out it wouldn't bother me. You may understand after 4-5 years of eating tag soup.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:40 AM   #29
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Spot on Mike. For OTC, go for the hunt, the experience, the memory's.
The experience is the banana split, if you kill one, that's the cherry on top.

My #1 advice to new elk hunters is stay mobile. Don't pin yourself down to 1 area, that's why I am not a big fan of packing in to camp.

As far as it being tough, I have killed several, that afterward I wished I had not, but I survived and the memory's will last forever.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:59 AM   #30
Pedernal
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TTT

let's get more experienced hunters to add their insight!!
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:13 PM   #31
Stoof
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Here is my big take aways from my first trip out after elk.

1. Elk are loud in the woods. So you can be too. When your off the trail and busting brush there is no need to go all ninja. If you crack a large limb on accident send out a cow call.
2. If you start talking to cows, mimic their calls. Move towards them and break some brush along the way.
3. Bow hunting is easier in pairs. Caller and shooter. If your getting into elk the caller should drop back aways behind the shooter and not be afraid to move laterally to steer elk in.
4. Pay attention to the thermals in the mountains. They shift as it heats up and cools down and they often swirl as the shift happens.

I know this stuff is old hat to the experienced but sometime you gotta learn the hard way and when your used to shooting whitetails in Texas you gotta un learn some stuff.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:34 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedernal View Post
This was to be the year for my first lesson. Harvey occurred and I volunteered to respond. While I missed out on an opportunity to learn about elk hunting, I witness a lot of human generosity/compassion that has helped restore some of my faith in humanity... If I had to do it over again, I would volunteer again and hope for an opportunity to assist folks in need.

Having stated this, I am already planning for next year, taking notes and will be asking a lot of questions. Hopefully more experianced hunters will share their experiances and insight. Here are a couple of questions that come to mind just from reading the original post:

1) Is it best to hunt the start of bow season or towards the end?? I ask due to my curiosity as to whether everyone shows up the first week or even a week prior putting all of the elk on edge and on the move. Would hunting the latter part of the season allow for less pressure and elk to have settled in to less movement??

2) I understand the concept of getting far away from the roads. I am however concerned that when I defy the odd and kill an elk I will be hard pressed to perserve the meat?? This also plays a bit in the hunting later on during the season as I imaging temps would be cooler. Some of you experianced hunters please in part and or share your wisdom...

Big thanks to the OP and the fellas that have added information...
If I could I would stay the whole season. There are days when the daylight elk movement is better than others. On most days the elk are usually bedded down by 9:00 to 10:00 am and don't get back up until right before dark. This is more true early in the season. As the rut heats up they may be on their feet a little later in the am and earlier in the pm.

With this being said.....I like to go the last week on the season. Its normally cooler and the elk are normally talking more. Note I said "normally". Some years it is still hot late into the season and some years the elk do not starting talking good until after October 1st. If the elk aren't talking it makes them even harder to find and to hunt.

As far as getting the meat out of the woods.....When you get one down way back in get it quartered up and hang the quarters if possible. It will cool faster and hopefully keep any critters from getting it. Take the back straps and tenderloins out on the first trip. Make as many trips as needed to pack it out. I know some guys that have made prior arrangements with locals with horses to pack out meat if they killed. If you ask around the towns near your hunting area you will be able to get some pack out contacts. Sometimes they are outfitters and sometimes they are guys that have horses and specialize in packing hunters and meat in and out of wilderness areas.

This can also happen late in the season. Especially at 11,000 ft.
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Old 09-22-2017, 10:32 AM   #33
Jamesl
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That pretty much sums it up. We don't go with the expectation of killing an elk on public land. That doesn't mean we half *** it either. We hunt hard and have fun. If you just have to kill an elk to have an enjoyable hunt, then I would highly recommend not going public land elk hunting.
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Old 09-22-2017, 11:57 AM   #34
Dusty Britches
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This phrase comes to mind:

This is not hunting, this is heavily armed hiking.

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Old 09-22-2017, 01:22 PM   #35
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DIY public land hunting is tough. Can't wait to see those mountains though.
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:30 PM   #36
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.

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Old 09-22-2017, 04:29 PM   #37
Larry L
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Just returned from Colorado DIY. Great experience but tag sandwich is yucky !!!!
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:26 PM   #38
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I posted this one year ago today. I think it has some good info so I brought it back up. If you have ever done a DIY OTC elk hunt you have probably experienced some or all of what I mentioned above.

If you were able to bring home an archery DIY OTC elk this year congratulations. If you were not successful do not feel alone. About 90% of your fellow hunters are in the same boat. To put it in perspective about 900 hunters out of 1000 DIY OTC archery elk hunters partake in tag soup. Closing the deal on any elk takes relentless pursuit, calling skill (sometimes), shooting skill (every time), and a good measure of of luck.

If you were not successful in killing an elk you still got to enjoy the mountains. Most everyone has a few sightings and close encounters which is always exciting. Most importantly great memories with great friends were made.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:03 AM   #39
tradtiger
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As one considering such a hunt, the info in this thread feels realistic and almost daunting. Yet we can glean hope from using some of these insights and strategies mentioned. Thanks for sharing the experience. Probably could knock a few more percentage points off the success rate for using trad archery equipment.

To quote Dumb and Dumber: "So, you're sayin' there's a chance...."
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:05 AM   #40
slicktricker
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All good info and truer words couldn't have been spoken Elk hunting is HARD! The payoff in the end is what I'm looking for and why I keep going back.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:12 AM   #41
flywise
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I have hunted the Nat. Forest of Colorado and NM 24 times in the last 30 years and have 4 mile deer and 0 elk to show for it. Been really close several times on elk but no dice. I tell anyone who is interested that these hunts are indeed hunts. They can be expensive but no more expensive than any other type of out of state vacation and as far as I'm concerned worth every single penny I spend.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:15 AM   #42
wytex
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Interesting thread. I wish you all had the time and PP to come hunt Wyoming. With most tags valid for both archery and rifle your season is extended. You'll need the time to make it happen though.
We have a very good LQ public land tag and are looking forward to the rest of archery season and opening day of rifle, which is Oct 1.
A very good friend has hunted this area many times, us only 3 times. We've taken 3 bulls from the area. He said the elk are vastly easier to call the first week of Sept. The elk are not gathering harems yet and respond better than bulls with cows. We have always avoided early Sept hunting because of Labor Day weekend and the campers it brings out. Next year we're going first week to see for ourselves if it pays off.

Getting to know an area by hunting it several times is a great advantage if it's good elk country. Most spots here you can't get anywhere close to 5 miles from a road and yet elk are still taken. They know travel routes people take and actually just skirt around them, many elk are seen and taken near camps and roads by hunters that use pressure their advantage. It has worked out sparingly for me though.

One thing about Colorado and OTC, yes the tags are easy to get and yes Colorado has the most elk of any state. They also have many more hunters in the field at any given time too.
I am impressed by the success some of you guys have with those OTC tags.

Don't give up and every trip is a learning experience. Grabbing some extra tags if possible helps with the elk let down of tag soup, game birds, bears etc.
Go with realistic expectations. Get to know an area, hunt where the elk are, that seems like a silly comment but not all elk habitat is equal, and go have fun.
Cow tags are cheaper and imo taste much better than bulls, look into a cow hunt as a learning experience. An outfitter drop camp is a great idea if you can swing it, get a group together to offset some of the cost.

Having a bull bugling his head off at a sort distance whether or not he gives you a shot is something all should get to experience. It is thrilling to say the least.

Good luck guys I hope at least some of you connect this fall, and I know you will.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:30 AM   #43
Arrowsmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wytex View Post
Interesting thread. I wish you all had the time and PP to come hunt Wyoming. With most tags valid for both archery and rifle your season is extended. You'll need the time to make it happen though.
We have a very good LQ public land tag and are looking forward to the rest of archery season and opening day of rifle, which is Oct 1.
A very good friend has hunted this area many times, us only 3 times. We've taken 3 bulls from the area. He said the elk are vastly easier to call the first week of Sept. The elk are not gathering harems yet and respond better than bulls with cows. We have always avoided early Sept hunting because of Labor Day weekend and the campers it brings out. Next year we're going first week to see for ourselves if it pays off.

Getting to know an area by hunting it several times is a great advantage if it's good elk country. Most spots here you can't get anywhere close to 5 miles from a road and yet elk are still taken. They know travel routes people take and actually just skirt around them, many elk are seen and taken near camps and roads by hunters that use pressure their advantage. It has worked out sparingly for me though.

One thing about Colorado and OTC, yes the tags are easy to get and yes Colorado has the most elk of any state. They also have many more hunters in the field at any given time too.
I am impressed by the success some of you guys have with those OTC tags.

Don't give up and every trip is a learning experience. Grabbing some extra tags if possible helps with the elk let down of tag soup, game birds, bears etc.
Go with realistic expectations. Get to know an area, hunt where the elk are, that seems like a silly comment but not all elk habitat is equal, and go have fun.
Cow tags are cheaper and imo taste much better than bulls, look into a cow hunt as a learning experience. An outfitter drop camp is a great idea if you can swing it, get a group together to offset some of the cost.

Having a bull bugling his head off at a sort distance whether or not he gives you a shot is something all should get to experience. It is thrilling to say the least.

Good luck guys I hope at least some of you connect this fall, and I know you will.
Great information. I have two Wyoming preference points. I am not sure where I am going yet. What do you know about the Medicine Bow National Forest?

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Old 09-20-2018, 09:46 AM   #44
Michael
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I posted this one year ago today. I think it has some good info so I brought it back up. If you have ever done a DIY OTC elk hunt you have probably experienced some or all of what I mentioned above.

If you were able to bring home an archery DIY OTC elk this year congratulations. If you were not successful do not feel alone. About 90% of your fellow hunters are in the same boat. To put it in perspective about 900 hunters out of 1000 DIY OTC archery elk hunters partake in tag soup. Closing the deal on any elk takes relentless pursuit, calling skill (sometimes), shooting skill (every time), and a good measure of of luck.

If you were not successful in killing an elk you still got to enjoy the mountains. Most everyone has a few sightings and close encounters which is always exciting. Most importantly great memories with great friends were made.
I wish you would have posted this a few weeks earlier...I might have stayed home and saved some money!

LOL! I went in with reasonable expectations on what defined "success", knowing the odds of packing out meat weren't in my favor. It won't stop me from trying again next year. Great post, Mike!
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:59 AM   #45
MQ32Shooter
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I read your post. Great recap of your hunt. Been there, done that. No one will believe how hard it is until you have done it. You gained some hard earned and valuable experience. Keep after them!!!! Here is a picture from one of my pack in hunts in the Lizard Head Wilderness. Our camp was at 11,250 ft.
Attachment 873411
I couldn't breath at 11,250!
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:21 AM   #46
05 gray ghost
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I have been trying to put together a trip back to Colorado for the last 2 years. Next year I going and I'm one of those that believes that it is not about the kill, but the hunt.

Congrats to all that have made the trip.

To those that are going or are there right now, good luck and be safe.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:36 AM   #47
SwampRabbit
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So now I see this! LOL!

The one thing I didn't learn in time was move sooner rather than later. I definitely saw some sign... and valued the sign that was like 6 hours or less old... Witnessed for myself how extra pressure made a good spot bad in under 24 hours.

I did sit on some sighting areas (of actual elk) way too long though... and part of that was mental fatigue. I was tired of not seeing stuff, that I latched on to the one spot I had seen elk... even though in my mind, I knew they were probably gone the last 2 days.

But that is why you go... and going is how you learn these things for yourself.

It is too hot in Texas for tag soup... I'm gonna have me a tag sammich!
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:00 AM   #48
Michael
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I preferred...



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Old 09-20-2018, 11:32 AM   #49
Raleigh
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I have hunted elk many years with more than a few DIY public land OTC tags. I had the honor and privilege to hunt with Stoof and BobG along his sons last year. While my expectations of taking a great bull were low my expectation of having a great hunt were high. The hunt was better than great.

My advise to new Elk hunters are: 1) Do everything possible to make sure you can be successful however set your expectations to match reality. If your expectations are grounded in reality you will maintain great attitude which more than makes up for the hardship and misfortune. 2) Chose your partners with care. Elk hunting is hard and when the chit hits the fan you need buddies that can support you mentally, emotionally, and physically. 3) Just do it. You will never be 100% prepared. Gleam what you can from Podcasts, books, hunting forums, and other hunters however just know that every hunt is different and you will have to adapt and do things that you had not prepared for. If you wait till you feel 100% then you may never make it to the mountains.

God Speed Elk Hunters
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:49 PM   #50
Killer
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Great thread and info!
One thing I will add is you can do this alone but why?
Get a good hunting buddy to go with you on a DIY OTC trip. It makes things better.
Remeber I said "Good Hunting Buddy". Oh and be in as good of shape as possible before you leave!

Last edited by Killer; 09-20-2018 at 12:52 PM.
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