Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Around the Campfire
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2014, 02:01 PM   #101
perfectstorm
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default So they shipped me a free gun, but now...

Wow. Apparently it only costs $200 for many on here to throw ethics out the window. Cheap dates.
perfectstorm is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:10 PM   #102
Smart
Pope & Young
 
Smart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denton, TX
Hunt In: Tom Green County
Default

So.....here is a question to ponder....and again remember I am in the he should pay for it right now but there are some things that make you go hmmmm....

Say you bought a TV at Best Buy......had a lot of problems with it and for your time Best Buy replaces your TV and gives you a brand new Emerson DVD player for your problems free and clear. So Best Buy defaults on payment to Emerson and Emerson comes to you for payment. Do you pay Emerson for the free DVD player you received from Best Buy?
Smart is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:14 PM   #103
BushHawg
Six Point
 
BushHawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cedar Creek, TX
Hunt In: LLano County
Default

Rule #1 - Nothing is free.

Rule #2 - When in doubt refer to rule #1 or look for the really hard to see strings attached.

Exception to the above rules - I have seen some very generous gestures on this website.
BushHawg is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:17 PM   #104
Beerkat
Ten Point
 
Beerkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Schleicher County
Default

Call and ask to speak to a manager. If he doesn't see it your way, send it back on their dime.



Send it back in pieces.
Beerkat is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:23 PM   #105
Bigt338
Four Point
 
Bigt338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Alba TX
Hunt In: Texas, Nebraska, PA, Idaho, WY
Default

Send it back or pay for it. Very easy situation. If you like it, pay. If not send it back.
Bigt338 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:27 PM   #106
Codie
Pope & Young
 
Codie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Graham Texas
Hunt In: Young,Throckmorton & Shackleford counties
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubydog View Post
How does one get hit on his credit report/score when nobody asked nor signed for credit?

If someone files something on my credit that I did not apply for that is a major no-no and you have 30 days to get it right or face legal action.

The ATF on the other hand scares the heck out of me...
There was a consumer transaction originally that originated all of this mess - I promise you that someone/somewhere has the ability to report the $218 on his credit as a collection account (whether they are right for doing it or not). I look at credit reports all day long every day and this type of stuff pops up pretty often. MOST of the time the consumer takes the hard stance instead of paying the small balance or taking care of it and it ends up hurting their credit score and then they want me to just IGNORE it because it was a mix-up that they didn't feel was their fault. I know for a fact that it is easy for a company to report something to the credit reporting agencies as a collection on you, but honestly think contacting the ATF over a $218 gun is a bluff. That is the only reason that I said I would be MORE worried about the possible ding on your credit than I would the ATF threat

Quote:
Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
You can fight the charges relatively cheaply. Fighting the government is a different story. It's only $218, if you like the gun pay for it like you originally planned to when you first purchased it.
Again, having your credit hurt and costing you an extra 1%-2% interest rate on your mortgage loan, auto loans, personal loans, having higher auto/house insurance rates is NOT going to be cheaper than paying for the $218 item or sending it back OR the $500 you end up paying for legal council to "take care of it". Like not even in the same ballpark

A lot of people these days take the hot-headed "I'll show them" attitude so easily these days instead of sitting down and rationally thinking about the consequences of their choices.
Codie is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:33 PM   #107
pdevoto
Eight Point
 
pdevoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: San Antonio
Hunt In: Kimbal and Austin Co.
Default Don't be a dipstick.

Send the story to Sportsman Guide.

If you have their email telling you to keep the gun use that email to submit your reply so it is attached.

Let us know what happens.

I don't think ATF has anything to do with muzzleloaders.
pdevoto is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:38 PM   #108
Jaybo31
Pope & Young
 
Jaybo31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Montgomery
Hunt In: Montgomery County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
So.....here is a question to ponder....and again remember I am in the he should pay for it right now but there are some things that make you go hmmmm....

Say you bought a TV at Best Buy......had a lot of problems with it and for your time Best Buy replaces your TV and gives you a brand new Emerson DVD player for your problems free and clear. So Best Buy defaults on payment to Emerson and Emerson comes to you for payment. Do you pay Emerson for the free DVD player you received from Best Buy?
Bingo. I think most are not hearing the fact that the company that he ordered the gun from is NOT who is asking him for payment. So he sends gun back to SW...next month SG calls and says um sir, we need payment or our gun back now. Sally messed the transaction up and has been fired. Uuuummm I gave it back to SW. Yeah right sir. ATF will be there shortly.

SW needs to contact SG...not him.
Jaybo31 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:40 PM   #109
quackerback
Pope & Young
 
quackerback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: alma,tx
Hunt In: down the road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
So.....here is a question to ponder....and again remember I am in the he should pay for it right now but there are some things that make you go hmmmm....

Say you bought a TV at Best Buy......had a lot of problems with it and for your time Best Buy replaces your TV and gives you a brand new Emerson DVD player for your problems free and clear. So Best Buy defaults on payment to Emerson and Emerson comes to you for payment. Do you pay Emerson for the free DVD player you received from Best Buy?
i think the difference would be that if best buy already has the dvd player in their possesion then it is paid for. sg would not have bought the muzzleloader. so basically it was not thiers to give away.
quackerback is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:43 PM   #110
sweetinlow660
Ten Point
 
sweetinlow660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pottsboro
Hunt In: Clay County SE Oklahoma
Default

Nothing's free. Pay for it or send it back. Pretty simple solution
sweetinlow660 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:44 PM   #111
Smart
Pope & Young
 
Smart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denton, TX
Hunt In: Tom Green County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackerback View Post
i think the difference would be that if best buy already has the dvd player in their possesion then it is paid for. sg would not have bought the muzzleloader. so basically it was not thiers to give away.
That is not the case... merchandise, equipment and services are bought all over the world on net 30, net 60 and net 90 day terms.




.

Last edited by Smart; 08-26-2014 at 02:48 PM.
Smart is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:46 PM   #112
Dugie
Ten Point
 
Dugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tyler
Hunt In: Ireland, TX
Default

What happened?
Dugie is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:48 PM   #113
sweetinlow660
Ten Point
 
sweetinlow660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Pottsboro
Hunt In: Clay County SE Oklahoma
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kparker158 View Post
Let SG handle it.

One day someone on here posted a coupon code for D i c k s sporting goods. 50% off any order. Well I just so happened to want a 250 dollar pop up blind. I used the code and paid 125 for it. They took the money out of my account. Well later that day, they emailed me to say my order had been cancelled and I had been refunded. The 50% off code was only supposed to be used for Employees only. Fine no big deal. Well 5 days later a pop up was delivered to my house. Got it for free and they never said anything else to me about it. If they would have, I'd tell them to pound sand. They are not going to hurt over it.
So I guess you are saying it's OK to steal from the wealthy as long as they make it easy for you to do so.
sweetinlow660 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:53 PM   #114
OrangeBlood
Ten Point
 
OrangeBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Princeton, TX
Hunt In: where the deer are
Default

if you bought it online, there is an email....if you canceled the order, there is an email. I'd find that email
OrangeBlood is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 02:56 PM   #115
BigWes
Eight Point
 
BigWes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spring, TX
Hunt In: Grimes County
Default

Good lord... some of the responses here amaze me. Yes, there was a miscommunication somewhere in the supply chain, and you got the gun waaaaay after you first ordered it. But you have a gun in your possession that you did not pay for, you got to use it, and you enjoyed it. Now the manufacturer is asking you to pay for their product that you have. If you keep it, you should pay for the gun. How much? Work that out with them. If you can't pay for it, send it back. I'd at least ask them to cover the shipping. Honestly, if they refused to cover shipping, I'd see it as the cost of having and enjoying the gun for 8 months. I'd see it like renting to see if I really wanted to purchase one.

If you decide to send it back and asked your wife to pack it and ship it for you, but you or her forgot to take the scope off of it, would you want your scope back or payment for that scope? Or, would you like it if S&W said, "Sorry, we aren't paying for your mistake."

Just do the right thing. You'll be glad you did.
BigWes is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 03:01 PM   #116
Shane
Pope & Young
 
Shane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Abilene, TX
Hunt In: Mismatched camo
Default

Email (so it's in writing) somebody at S&W and negotiate the amount you owe them for the gun they sent you. They wouldn't have gotten retail for it. Agree to pay them wholesale and pay it.

The thing to do when the box arrived would have been to mark it Return To Sender and ship it back.
Shane is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 03:03 PM   #117
Smart
Pope & Young
 
Smart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denton, TX
Hunt In: Tom Green County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
Email (so it's in writing) somebody at S&W and negotiate the amount you owe them for the gun they sent you. They wouldn't have gotten retail for it. Agree to pay them wholesale and pay it.
And if its on SC, I'm wondering if the wholesale price is much lower anyway. A lot of that stuff is closeout to begin with.
Smart is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 03:06 PM   #118
Shane
Pope & Young
 
Shane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Abilene, TX
Hunt In: Mismatched camo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
And if its on SC, I'm wondering if the wholesale price is much lower anyway. A lot of that stuff is closeout to begin with.
Maybe so. Ask in the email conversation what they would have been paid by SG. Whatever "wholesale" is in this case, it's less than he wanted to pay SG for the gun.
Shane is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 03:07 PM   #119
Traildust
Pope & Young
 
Traildust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Alvin, Texas
Hunt In: The Red Dirt Area In Doss, Texas!
Default

Tell 'em some black guy from the gov-o-ment came and confiscated the gun....
went by the name "Holder" Had some big eared doofus driving him!
Traildust is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 03:45 PM   #120
rubydog
Pope & Young
 
rubydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: A rock house
Hunt In: A tall tree
Default

[QUOTE=Codie;8975337]There was a consumer transaction originally that originated all of this mess - I promise you that someone/somewhere has the ability to report the $218 on his credit as a collection account (whether they are right for doing it or not). I look at credit reports all day long every day and this type of stuff pops up pretty often. MOST of the time the consumer takes the hard stance instead of paying the small balance or taking care of it and it ends up hurting their credit score and then they want me to just IGNORE it because it was a mix-up that they didn't feel was their fault. I know for a fact that it is easy for a company to report something to the credit reporting agencies as a collection on you, but honestly think contacting the ATF over a $218 gun is a bluff. That is the only reason that I said I would be MORE worried about the possible ding on your credit than I would the ATF threat


Then you should know by reading the OP's original post that the "consumer transaction" was canceled and money refunded. Being the credit law savvy banker you are should also know that if you report on a canceled and refunded transaction as though it was an un paid/default/collection that s a clear violation of the Fair Credit Report Act. $100 dollars and a hungry lawyer would eat you alive if you filed that and I was denied credit. Just ask Wells Fargo, Sears, Experian and Trans Union.
rubydog is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:06 PM   #121
Codie
Pope & Young
 
Codie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Graham Texas
Hunt In: Young,Throckmorton & Shackleford counties
Default

[quote=rubydog;8975714]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codie View Post
There was a consumer transaction originally that originated all of this mess - I promise you that someone/somewhere has the ability to report the $218 on his credit as a collection account (whether they are right for doing it or not). I look at credit reports all day long every day and this type of stuff pops up pretty often. MOST of the time the consumer takes the hard stance instead of paying the small balance or taking care of it and it ends up hurting their credit score and then they want me to just IGNORE it because it was a mix-up that they didn't feel was their fault. I know for a fact that it is easy for a company to report something to the credit reporting agencies as a collection on you, but honestly think contacting the ATF over a $218 gun is a bluff. That is the only reason that I said I would be MORE worried about the possible ding on your credit than I would the ATF threat


Then you should know by reading the OP's original post that the "consumer transaction" was canceled and money refunded. Being the credit law savvy banker you are should also know that if you report on a canceled and refunded transaction as though it was an un paid/default/collection that s a clear violation of the Fair Credit Report Act. $100 dollars and a hungry lawyer would eat you alive if you filed that and I was denied credit. Just ask Wells Fargo, Sears, Experian and Trans Union.
I understand what you are saying and agree. The fact that the consumer considered the order cancelled and $ refunded does not matter unfortunately if the company can show that it is an open disputed acct on their side of the isle that was never actually closed/cancelled. I had a consumer not long ago that had a collection filed/reported to the CR agencies by the government due to a mix-up/dispute over an amount of $ that they were paid by thier perspective branch of the military. The consumer got paid a paycheck - the gov/mil claimed they paid the consumer too much by mistake several months later- the consumer disputed that the gov/mil paid them too much and were told that the dispute was closed and not to worry about it - the gov/military reported the amount in dispute to the reporting agencies as a collection on their credit report the very next month and when I pulled the credit report it had been reported every single month since they originally reported it 8 months prior as an active collection acct. Believe what you want but somewhere there is an open/pending transaction that is being disputed by a company and the OP has two choices. Satisfy the company in some manner or have it reported as a collection - it is that simple. (I am not saying it is fair, right, or honest) but if there was not an open transacation of some sort/dispute by the company then they would not be contacting him now. It would not suprise me in the least if the OP considered it a closed/cancelled acct after talking to them last, yet it was not closed on the company end. IF the acct was in fact closed/cancelled correctly by BOTH parties in the transaction and they came back and reported the $ as a collection then the OP would have a leg to stand on just as you said, but I can't see a company doing so (not that it matters much with some of the company ethics and morals some consumers have to endure). I just hope you get this all worked out without it hurting your credit or having to do too much leg work to get it resolved
Codie is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:20 PM   #122
onw
Four Point
 
onw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tomball, Tx
Hunt In: Anderson county
Default

I'll "pay it forward" from a good deed fromsomeone else, I'll donate some money to ya to go towards it and ask nothing in return. Other than you pay it forward next time you are able to. One of the best things about the green screen is how quick others are willing to help someone.

conscious stays clear
This dispute is settled with both parties happy
and best of all, it proves that not all hope for mankind is loss haha
onw is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:33 PM   #123
rubydog
Pope & Young
 
rubydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: A rock house
Hunt In: A tall tree
Default

[quote=Codie;8975819]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubydog View Post

I understand what you are saying and agree. The fact that the consumer considered the order cancelled and $ refunded does not matter unfortunately if the company can show that it is an open disputed acct on their side of the isle that was never actually closed/cancelled. I had a consumer not long ago that had a collection filed/reported to the CR agencies by the government due to a mix-up/dispute over an amount of $ that they were paid by thier perspective branch of the military. The consumer got paid a paycheck - the gov/mil claimed they paid the consumer too much by mistake several months later- the consumer disputed that the gov/mil paid them too much and were told that the dispute was closed and not to worry about it - the gov/military reported the amount in dispute to the reporting agencies as a collection on their credit report the very next month and when I pulled the credit report it had been reported every single month since they originally reported it 8 months prior as an active collection acct. Believe what you want but somewhere there is an open/pending transaction that is being disputed by a company and the OP has two choices. Satisfy the company in some manner or have it reported as a collection - it is that simple. (I am not saying it is fair, right, or honest) but if there was not an open transacation of some sort/dispute by the company then they would not be contacting him now. It would not suprise me in the least if the OP considered it a closed/cancelled acct after talking to them last, yet it was not closed on the company end. IF the acct was in fact closed/cancelled correctly by BOTH parties in the transaction and they came back and reported the $ as a collection then the OP would have a leg to stand on just as you said, but I can't see a company doing so (not that it matters much with some of the company ethics and morals some consumers have to endure). I just hope you get this all worked out without it hurting your credit or having to do too much leg work to get it resolved

There is a 3rd choice. Hire a lawyer... Especially if you have a record of the transaction being canceled and refunded. No if's and's or but's about it. If you paid it or canceled the transaction received a refund and can prove it you have terminated financial obligations legally. I have been there and done that exact same thing and made my lawyer some money and some bank auditors pretty upset. I value my credit score and I will fight for a BS charge such as this. Maybe others wont.
rubydog is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:49 PM   #124
curtintex
Pope & Young
 
curtintex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Porter, TX
Hunt In: Usually from a tree
Default

I love these threads, because I can always tell who I'd do business with and who I wouldn't. Integrity....it ain't just a word.
curtintex is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:51 PM   #125
Jon-Paul
Administrator
 
Jon-Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Spring, Tx
Default

Send it back or pay, granted now it's been used so I would pay and continue to enjoy it.
Jon-Paul is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:54 PM   #126
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCulloch County
Default

Just send it back... get a new gun when you get the $ together
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:55 PM   #127
Pedernal
Pope & Young
 
Pedernal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Del Rio
Hunt In: Amistad
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
I love these threads, because I can always tell who I'd do business with and who I wouldn't. Integrity....it ain't just a word.
Good point...
Pedernal is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:56 PM   #128
Frederick D. Be
Eight Point
 
Frederick D. Be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Hunt In: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon-Paul View Post
Send it back or pay, granted now it's been used so I would pay and continue to enjoy it.
This would be the correct way to deal with this even though SG said what they did. I would call SG first and speak with the highest up person you can get to listen and see where they are willing to go with this. But, the ball is really on your side of the court. Cheers!
Fred
Frederick D. Be is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 04:57 PM   #129
Sylvo55
Ten Point
 
Sylvo55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio
Hunt In: Jim Hogg County
Default

Wow this is a tough one. Think about it and do what is best. Good luck
Sylvo55 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 05:22 PM   #130
Hoggslayer
Pope & Young
 
Hoggslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Manvel, TX
Hunt In: Open to Offers
Default

I'm really confused now. He ordered the gun from SG and SW sent him the gun and he trying to figure out how to say out of trouble with the ATF. Where in the heck did SC come into play.
Hoggslayer is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 05:46 PM   #131
Lynn21
Ten Point
 
Lynn21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Mesquite,texas
Hunt In: Childress, Tx
Default

"Sir, just keep the item"- keep that documentation and that should b all u need,that's ur justification for using it.
Lynn21 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 06:20 PM   #132
Artos
Pope & Young
 
Artos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Deep South TX
Hunt In: Deep South TX
Default

Here's my take.

1. S&W should not be contacting you for reimbursement. SG ordered the gun and is responsible to pay the invoice regardless. That is where the contractual obligation lies regardless if they lost it, shipped to wrong address or broke it. It is irresponsible for SG to pass the buck to S&W under the circumstances as you have explained it. You have not no obligation to reimburse S&W as your purchase order was not direct to the mfg...this is a problem with S&W and SG. Do not pay or return the gun to S&W at all cost imho. You are only encouraging SG to not honor their agreement with their suppliers. This part smells funny to me.

2. Do you want the gun?? If so, talk to CS at SG and get the details worked out, send everything certified funds & let S&W know their contract is with the distributor and you paid the company from where you ordered the gun and send proof of your completion of original order.

3. If it were me & I didn't want the gun, I would out of principle send the gun back to SG & demand a prepaid return RMA package & find the same gun elsewhere & let them know they are going to lose business forever the way they handled the situation...to me, they failed by passing the buck onto S&W to collect. It was their bed...make them clean it.

4. If the gun is accurate & shoots lights out & if worth keeping, I would still pay SG and & let them deal with S&W directly as that is how the paper trail works...the way the two companies handled this situation was unprofessional and I honestly would tell them such, as all this does in antagonize customers...as a dealer myself, I would have never reached out to the mfg to do the collecting on my mistake & SG would be off my list over such a petty issue.

The others are right...don't keep an item as you would be stooping to their level. If they had done the right thing & let you keep it, imagine all the good press they would be getting vs all the nonsense in this thread. they are painting a bad picture of themselves & doing lots of harm. It amazes me what companies do. I'm small potatoes, but my name & reputation are worth more lots more than the mountain these ding-dongs are dying on.

smh...good luck and take path of righteousness, but send a lesson learned to help others who may go through the same situation.
Artos is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 06:41 PM   #133
bloodtrailer28
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oatmeal, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
Here's my take.

1. S&W should not be contacting you for reimbursement. SG ordered the gun and is responsible to pay the invoice regardless. That is where the contractual obligation lies regardless if they lost it, shipped to wrong address or broke it. It is irresponsible for SG to pass the buck to S&W under the circumstances as you have explained it. You have not no obligation to reimburse S&W as your purchase order was not direct to the mfg...this is a problem with S&W and SG. Do not pay or return the gun to S&W at all cost imho. You are only encouraging SG to not honor their agreement with their suppliers. This part smells funny to me.

2. Do you want the gun?? If so, talk to CS at SG and get the details worked out, send everything certified funds & let S&W know their contract is with the distributor and you paid the company from where you ordered the gun and send proof of your completion of original order.

3. If it were me & I didn't want the gun, I would out of principle send the gun back to SG & demand a prepaid return RMA package & find the same gun elsewhere & let them know they are going to lose business forever the way they handled the situation...to me, they failed by passing the buck onto S&W to collect. It was their bed...make them clean it.

4. If the gun is accurate & shoots lights out & if worth keeping, I would still pay SG and & let them deal with S&W directly as that is how the paper trail works...the way the two companies handled this situation was unprofessional and I honestly would tell them such, as all this does in antagonize customers...as a dealer myself, I would have never reached out to the mfg to do the collecting on my mistake & SG would be off my list over such a petty issue.

The others are right...don't keep an item as you would be stooping to their level. If they had done the right thing & let you keep it, imagine all the good press they would be getting vs all the nonsense in this thread. they are painting a bad picture of themselves & doing lots of harm. It amazes me what companies do. I'm small potatoes, but my name & reputation are worth more lots more than the mountain these ding-dongs are dying on.

smh...good luck and take path of righteousness, but send a lesson learned to help others who may go through the same situation.
Very well said! And great advice....
bloodtrailer28 is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 06:47 PM   #134
icetrauma
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pasadena
Hunt In: Dreams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
I love these threads, because I can always tell who I'd do business with and who I wouldn't. Integrity....it ain't just a word.
They say it's not what you do when people are watching but what you do when no one is around that determines ones integrity.
icetrauma is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 09:20 PM   #135
Landrover
Pope & Young
 
Landrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Hunt In: Wherever & Whenever
Default

I cannot believe this is still being discussed.........please Lord heal our spirits in these strange times!
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
I love these threads, because I can always tell who I'd do business with and who I wouldn't. Integrity....it ain't just a word.
cha ching!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
They say it's not what you do when people are watching but what you do when no one is around that determines ones integrity.
Booyah!!!
Landrover is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 09:23 PM   #136
Codie
Pope & Young
 
Codie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Graham Texas
Hunt In: Young,Throckmorton & Shackleford counties
Default

[quote=rubydog;8975942]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codie View Post


There is a 3rd choice. Hire a lawyer... Especially if you have a record of the transaction being canceled and refunded. No if's and's or but's about it. If you paid it or canceled the transaction received a refund and can prove it you have terminated financial obligations legally. I have been there and done that exact same thing and made my lawyer some money and some bank auditors pretty upset. I value my credit score and I will fight for a BS charge such as this. Maybe others wont.
Bank Auditors live upset so dont take too much credit on that
I think you are correct actually, that would be a 3rd option if you were up for the extra hassle, I did not consider it because it would not be an option that I would consider in a situation like this ( not that there is anything wrong with that option)
Codie is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 09:24 PM   #137
woodsman
Ten Point
 
woodsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Garland
Hunt In: . . . the re-public . . . of Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
Here's my take.

1. S&W should not be contacting you for reimbursement. SG ordered the gun and is responsible to pay the invoice regardless. That is where the contractual obligation lies regardless if they lost it, shipped to wrong address or broke it. It is irresponsible for SG to pass the buck to S&W under the circumstances as you have explained it. You have not no obligation to reimburse S&W as your purchase order was not direct to the mfg...this is a problem with S&W and SG. Do not pay or return the gun to S&W at all cost imho. You are only encouraging SG to not honor their agreement with their suppliers. This part smells funny to me.

2. Do you want the gun?? If so, talk to CS at SG and get the details worked out, send everything certified funds & let S&W know their contract is with the distributor and you paid the company from where you ordered the gun and send proof of your completion of original order.

3. If it were me & I didn't want the gun, I would out of principle send the gun back to SG & demand a prepaid return RMA package & find the same gun elsewhere & let them know they are going to lose business forever the way they handled the situation...to me, they failed by passing the buck onto S&W to collect. It was their bed...make them clean it.

4. If the gun is accurate & shoots lights out & if worth keeping, I would still pay SG and & let them deal with S&W directly as that is how the paper trail works...the way the two companies handled this situation was unprofessional and I honestly would tell them such, as all this does in antagonize customers...as a dealer myself, I would have never reached out to the mfg to do the collecting on my mistake & SG would be off my list over such a petty issue.

The others are right...don't keep an item as you would be stooping to their level. If they had done the right thing & let you keep it, imagine all the good press they would be getting vs all the nonsense in this thread. they are painting a bad picture of themselves & doing lots of harm. It amazes me what companies do. I'm small potatoes, but my name & reputation are worth more lots more than the mountain these ding-dongs are dying on.

smh...good luck and take path of righteousness, but send a lesson learned to help others who may go through the same situation.
Thank you for the tactful reply, Artos. ^^^This is EXACTLY the reality of the situation, and also portrays how I feel about it. Thank you for the careful articulation.

And thank you to others who have replied, as well. Everyone has made some very good points. There have been some truthful things said here that were said in a kind spirit--and I appreciate that.

I also must admit I was a little disappointed by the tactlessness of some here that I had held in higher regard based on some of your posts that I have read over the years. But that's okay, I know folks are coming from a place of strong convictions, and I may not have done a thorough job of explaining how poorly the fiasco was handled.


Burnadell--I was not talking about repayment of the gun, I was referring to being left with useless peripheral items that I cannot use/have lost value due to having to relent the firearm. If I had accidentally paid for the item twice, as you propose, and then DECLINED an appropriate rectification--as they did--I could not reasonably expect them to again make arrangements since it's expected that they have closed out the issue and have likely made equal plans/decisions/purchases with the funds based on the concrete response that I gave them. In short, we shook hands, buried the issue and I moved on with full faith that I need not keep extra funds on retainer for some hypothetical unlikely event. Also, please remember, I am being asked to send $$ to a company that I never purchased a thing from.

I have been traveling for business this week and won't be able to get in touch with SG or S&W until later on this week. I plan to talk to both of them so they can coordinate the proper chain of transactions to protect everyone. The fact that SG screwed up everything so badly and messed up my hunting season is what makes this a little difficult to swallow--no apologies were made, no attempts to restore consumer trust/relationship through goodwill via a credit, discount, free shipping, anything. If you were hunting only 1-2 times per year, it might be easier to empathize with my frustration a little more. Not suggesting frustration warrants unethical behavior--suggesting that it be handled fairly.

Either way, I intend to do the right thing even if we don't all agree about what that is--and expect the same from SG/S&W in this situation.

Last edited by woodsman; 08-26-2014 at 09:36 PM.
woodsman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 10:18 PM   #138
rubydog
Pope & Young
 
rubydog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: A rock house
Hunt In: A tall tree
Default

[quote=Codie;8977269]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubydog View Post

Bank Auditors live upset so dont take too much credit on that
I think you are correct actually, that would be a 3rd option if you were up for the extra hassle, I did not consider it because it would not be an option that I would consider in a situation like this ( not that there is anything wrong with that option)
When somebody does me wrong and I have legal recourse. I use it. Like you said, good credit is hard to build and maintain. When I am denied what I have worked for and wrongly accused I will stop at nothing to cost somebody else grief, money and maybe a job. Just ask the jackwagon that rear ended my daughter and had a fake insurance card. You can find him walking some where in San Antonio for the next 2 years.
rubydog is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 10:55 PM   #139
Mike
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange, Texas
Default

I just can't help it, lol. I'm going to wade into the pool for a short dip. Lots of viewpoints stated here and my mind is simply swimming.

Regarding the ATF, they can't do anything as a Muzzleloader is not a firearm, that's a bullying tactic.

I will second that you only deal with SG, Artos summed it up all pretty good in his post. Get them involved and let them make it right.

There are a lot of folks that live life right here on TBH but sadly, there are some BIG, BIG Corporations that would tell S&W to pound sand or butt a stump. I deal with a bunch of them every day. I can tell you that if I were to send over an invoice and say "Hey, Mr. Corporation, my accounting lady screwed up and forgot to bill you for that stuff we sent over 7 months ago, will you pay it?" They'd laugh at me right to my face. I dealt with a scenario today, customer returned equipment 60 days ago and it was damaged pretty bad, took 6 weeks to get parts and another 2 weeks to get it all put back together and I called for the PO to bill the account for the damages and was told to "eat it, we're not paying, that project was over 2 months ago." My response is always the same, "Did I take care of you? Did I provide good equipment for your project? Was there ever any issues that I didn't handle?" Their response is always the same, "oh yes, everything was great, thanks so much, but we're still not paying, you didn't bill us timely."

Guys, we get this crap all the time, it's the new mindset, and we're not talking about a $218 gun but $2-10K invoices. It's just unreal how much it really exists out there.
Mike is online now   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 11:12 PM   #140
TX_Kevin
Pope & Young
 
TX_Kevin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bryan, TX
Hunt In: Gillespie County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike View Post
I just can't help it, lol. I'm going to wade into the pool for a short dip. Lots of viewpoints stated here and my mind is simply swimming.

Regarding the ATF, they can't do anything as a Muzzleloader is not a firearm, that's a bullying tactic.

I will second that you only deal with SG, Artos summed it up all pretty good in his post. Get them involved and let them make it right.

There are a lot of folks that live life right here on TBH but sadly, there are some BIG, BIG Corporations that would tell S&W to pound sand or butt a stump. I deal with a bunch of them every day. I can tell you that if I were to send over an invoice and say "Hey, Mr. Corporation, my accounting lady screwed up and forgot to bill you for that stuff we sent over 7 months ago, will you pay it?" They'd laugh at me right to my face. I dealt with a scenario today, customer returned equipment 60 days ago and it was damaged pretty bad, took 6 weeks to get parts and another 2 weeks to get it all put back together and I called for the PO to bill the account for the damages and was told to "eat it, we're not paying, that project was over 2 months ago." My response is always the same, "Did I take care of you? Did I provide good equipment for your project? Was there ever any issues that I didn't handle?" Their response is always the same, "oh yes, everything was great, thanks so much, but we're still not paying, you didn't bill us timely."

Guys, we get this crap all the time, it's the new mindset, and we're not talking about a $218 gun but $2-10K invoices. It's just unreal how much it really exists out there.
Sure it does. Many in corporate America will screw you to death and laugh while they're doing it. It's wrong for them to do, but there's little we can do about it. Everyone makes mistakes, but when we can right a wrong and be right about what we're doing, we should. Eventually we are all going to have to answer to someone for what we did wrong, and there ain't no hiding from that one.

Buy the gun, or send it back. At that, you have nothing to hide. Period. As others have said, everything else is just justification. I too am really disappointed in how many dishonest people we have around here. Come on guys, we're better than this.
TX_Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-26-2014, 11:32 PM   #141
phoneman
Ten Point
 
phoneman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: weatherford,, Tx
Hunt In: Lipan, Tx
Default

I'm pretty sure a muzzle loader is not considered a firearm w the atf.
phoneman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 12:01 AM   #142
brushtrooper
Ten Point
 
brushtrooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Texas/Gulf Coast
Hunt In: Atascosa County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsman View Post
Nope, it was left on my porch--no signature required.

As to ATF's involvement, I wouldn't want the gun confiscated if for some reason a GW were to run the serial #. Unlikely hypothetical situation, but plausible.
I deal with shipping product and claims all day,everyday. JMHO-Demand POD-Proof Of Delivery and demand the ser# that you supposedly received. Chances are they cant.. They cant prove anything without the delivery signature that you or household member signed. They are just following up on your phone call saying you got the gun and cancelled the order I think.
Most likely they have been reimbursed by the shipping company(UPS/FEDEX) for a lost item via insurance claim. I would tell them you are recording all communication going forward will file with the BBB.
They cant prove you received without signature....thats just fact>>>>>>very important for their claim. If they cant email you a copy of the "signature" where you or a family member signed. They lost...make sure you get the copy that shows actual signature. Alot of times the UPS/Fedex drivers will enter the recipients names in at such and such time on this date. YOU NEED A SIGNED POD FROM THEM. Cant stress that enough.
They can't prove ser# shipped..I bet.
End of story
Per your story , you called and offered to do the right thing. They refused to offer you a UPS/FEDEX acct# to return it on collect. I would have no problem fighting them on this.

Last edited by brushtrooper; 08-27-2014 at 12:16 AM.
brushtrooper is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 03:19 AM   #143
Bowhuntamistad
Pope & Young
 
Bowhuntamistad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Del Rio, Tx / Las Vegas, Nv :)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brushtrooper View Post
I deal with shipping product and claims all day,everyday. JMHO-Demand POD-Proof Of Delivery and demand the ser# that you supposedly received. Chances are they cant.. They cant prove anything without the delivery signature that you or household member signed. They are just following up on your phone call saying you got the gun and cancelled the order I think.
Most likely they have been reimbursed by the shipping company(UPS/FEDEX) for a lost item via insurance claim. I would tell them you are recording all communication going forward will file with the BBB.
They cant prove you received without signature....thats just fact>>>>>>very important for their claim. If they cant email you a copy of the "signature" where you or a family member signed. They lost...make sure you get the copy that shows actual signature. Alot of times the UPS/Fedex drivers will enter the recipients names in at such and such time on this date. YOU NEED A SIGNED POD FROM THEM. Cant stress that enough.
They can't prove ser# shipped..I bet.
End of story
Per your story , you called and offered to do the right thing. They refused to offer you a UPS/FEDEX acct# to return it on collect. I would have no problem fighting them on this.
I agree 100%!!!!!
Bowhuntamistad is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 05:59 AM   #144
BigWhey
Four Point
 
BigWhey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Permian Basin
Default

If you feel guilty about it then take care of it. I think it's funny people trying to act like this cheap gun will even make a micro effect to them.... Oh, is S&W a different company like a mom and pop shop? No bc I bet if it was they wouldn't send a chicken crap threatening letter like that. I bet they contacted to SG to get their money and was told no so they are trying this method.
How do you people think they can hurt his credit? He didn't buy it from them. That whole agreement was terminated between him and SG. If they had asked nicely for it I would maybe feel differently about it
BigWhey is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 06:13 AM   #145
LWD
Ten Point
 
LWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Grapevine
Hunt In: Young County and anywhere else I can
Default

The insight and comment from Artos is excellent. I agree completely. My hesitation in taking any action would be based on what a mess this is. This seems to be the perfect storm of mess that could pop up again next year. What's to stop SG from deciding they need to be paid after the gun goes back to S&W? I'd want a better handle on the whole thing before doing anything.

Mike's point about how business is done today is an excellent one. The "any excuse to screw you over" model is taking over.

LWD
LWD is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 06:22 AM   #146
PBUCKSHOT
Pope & Young
 
PBUCKSHOT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Portland, Tx
Hunt In: Three Rivers, Tx
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brushtrooper View Post
I deal with shipping product and claims all day,everyday. JMHO-Demand POD-Proof Of Delivery and demand the ser# that you supposedly received. Chances are they cant.. They cant prove anything without the delivery signature that you or household member signed. They are just following up on your phone call saying you got the gun and cancelled the order I think.
Most likely they have been reimbursed by the shipping company(UPS/FEDEX) for a lost item via insurance claim. I would tell them you are recording all communication going forward will file with the BBB.
They cant prove you received without signature....thats just fact>>>>>>very important for their claim. If they cant email you a copy of the "signature" where you or a family member signed. They lost...make sure you get the copy that shows actual signature. Alot of times the UPS/Fedex drivers will enter the recipients names in at such and such time on this date. YOU NEED A SIGNED POD FROM THEM. Cant stress that enough.
They can't prove ser# shipped..I bet.
End of story
Per your story , you called and offered to do the right thing. They refused to offer you a UPS/FEDEX acct# to return it on collect. I would have no problem fighting them on this.
That's all fine and dandy if you are trying to get a free gun because they cant prove they sent it to you. That is not the case here man. Bottom line is free gun arrived, he got to use it and now they want it back. Ask them to pay for shipping and send it back. Geez
PBUCKSHOT is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 06:39 AM   #147
Mike Javi Cooper
Pope & Young
 
Mike Javi Cooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Waco or Wherever the camper is parked
Default

Good lord, 3 pages for a $218 gun that was ordered, not received, then received and not billed... Then some clerk said "Just keep it" now the manufacturer wants their money for the drop shipment..

SG most likely told S&W to pound sand, so S&W went to the person who received the gun for payment since he hadn't paid anyone for the gun.

Seems logical to me.. Pretty sure most folks would approach it this way..


Can't say what you should do, that is up to you and your conscience....

I can say what I would do, if I were in your shoes... I'd ask for an invoice from S&W and then I'd pay that invoice.

However, since I've been around the barnyard a long time... when that clerk told me to "just Keep IT" I would have asked for a written document to that effect, if no such document was forthcoming then I would have gone up the ladder to someone who would have provided me with an invoice stating no charge, or an invoice which I could pay.

That's what my conscience would make me do.. Your mileage may vary..


P.S. Just 'cause there are crooks in this world, it don't mean I got to be a crook...

Last edited by Mike Javi Cooper; 08-27-2014 at 06:41 AM.
Mike Javi Cooper is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 06:50 AM   #148
jacobp
Four Point
 
jacobp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Hunt In: Webb and Duval County
Default

4th Option:
Tell S&W that you would be glad to continue "Feild Testing" their products and that you will send back the first Muzzle Loader in the box that they send you your next test subject in.
jacobp is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 06:58 AM   #149
basschsr
Eight Point
 
basschsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Kemp, TX
Hunt In: Paint Rock
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobp View Post
4th Option:
Tell S&W that you would be glad to continue "Feild Testing" their products and that you will send back the first Muzzle Loader in the box that they send you your next test subject in.
LOL! Good stuff right there ^^
basschsr is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 08-27-2014, 07:19 AM   #150
engnman
Eight Point
 
engnman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midlothian TEXAS
Hunt In: Whitney
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtintex View Post
i love these threads, because i can always tell who i'd do business with and who i wouldn't. Integrity....it ain't just a word.
x2 this
engnman is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com