Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Building YOUR arrow...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #17
    Originally posted by Dry Bones View Post
    Rat, after my bow experimentation, I did play with some arrows from my longbows and ran a few through my compound. I have some Gold Tip Traditional arrows spined 340, with 100 grain brass inserts. @ 20 yards the difference was minimal, but from there the gap between pin and point of impact grew substantially, which I already knew was going to be the case.
    Point to all this.
    I REALLY like heavy points in my traditional bows, but had not moved that route in my compound. No chronograph so no way for me to really know what the change in arrow weight does for me, but in the target, (again not scientific as density changes all over the target), but the added FOC did not change the penetration by more than 1" (close to 50 comparable shots).
    All my tinkering came back to was, I have had great success with my past set-up and did not see enough improved penetration from adding brass inserts that I wanted to add more money per shaft.
    Have you had a chance to put any numbers on different shafts to see what you were getting in speed, kinetic energy (I also realize there is some fault at the physical number kinetic energy when looking at arrows but it's a measurable standard) and actual penetration?
    My current compound set-up is 68#At 27.75" draw G5 Quest Rogue. Arrows are 28" off a QAD rest.
    Sorry for the long one, still trying to make sense of FOC and actual real results.
    As Enewman said, it doesn't make common sense when shot into a friction stop target.

    MANY years ago, some friends and me got together to try some things. This was when we first started reading about Ashby and his experiments. We built what we called the "Domino Target".

    You see, we had heard that 10 gauge metal was equal in tensile strength to rib bones; I don't know if that is true or not, but that's what we heard. I worked for a sheet metal shop at the time, so we started shooting stuff. We built a target stand that would hold four 12 x 12 pieces of 10 gauge sheet metal 6 inches apart; they looked like dominoes when inserted into the target, hence the name.

    We then started to tear stuff up, broadheads, arrows, sheet metal plates, everything. We shot all different kinds of arrows into those plates, heavy, high FOC, light, weak spine, stiff spine; just about everything you can think of. We could change the orientation of the plates from a "broadside" shot to any angle we wanted; and each plate was able to be at a different angle. We shot a lot of arrows. We had 100 plates.

    What we found was that the higher the FOC the better the penetration through the plates, especially at weird angles. We only used three broadheads, Muzzy, Thunderhead and Zwickey. The Muzzy trocar tip never failed to penetrate, while every now and then with a steep enough angle we could get a Zwickey or a T-head to skip off; these were extreme angle cases.

    Shooting arrows through two plates, and then three and eventually four, really opened our eyes to what an arrow broadhead combination is capable of when done right.

    The main thing I retained out of these experiments was this; for the same weight arrow, the one with higher FOC will out penetrate every time, and if it was a two blade, it was a lot more penetration.

    We didn't keep records, but we shot everything we had, three different bows and shooters, hundreds of different arrow/broadhed combinations and case after case of beer.

    We didn't have a chrono back then so I can't say what the speeds were, but I would imagine they were probably around the 260-280 FPS mark. My PSE at the time was the only bow that had been chronoed and it shot 277 FPS.

    Other than my broadhead target, which is a sand trap, this is the only penetration testing I have ever done.

    Now that I'm waxing nostalgic I may re-run this little experiment and make a video of it all. It was very interesting to say the least.

    Here is a good video with a bunch of numbers that Ranch Fairy just put out a few days ago with some good shots on a 175 lb dead pig; many different arrows and broadhead combinations.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3ZzJlrSV7A

    Comment


      #18
      Originally posted by Rat View Post
      As Enewman said, it doesn't make common sense when shot into a friction stop target.

      MANY years ago, some friends and me got together to try some things. This was when we first started reading about Ashby and his experiments. We built what we called the "Domino Target".

      You see, we had heard that 10 gauge metal was equal in tensile strength to rib bones; I don't know if that is true or not, but that's what we heard. I worked for a sheet metal shop at the time, so we started shooting stuff. We built a target stand that would hold four 12 x 12 pieces of 10 gauge sheet metal 6 inches apart; they looked like dominoes when inserted into the target, hence the name.

      We then started to tear stuff up, broadheads, arrows, sheet metal plates, everything. We shot all different kinds of arrows into those plates, heavy, high FOC, light, weak spine, stiff spine; just about everything you can think of. We could change the orientation of the plates from a "broadside" shot to any angle we wanted; and each plate was able to be at a different angle. We shot a lot of arrows. We had 100 plates.

      What we found was that the higher the FOC the better the penetration through the plates, especially at weird angles. We only used three broadheads, Muzzy, Thunderhead and Zwickey. The Muzzy trocar tip never failed to penetrate, while every now and then with a steep enough angle we could get a Zwickey or a T-head to skip off; these were extreme angle cases.

      Shooting arrows through two plates, and then three and eventually four, really opened our eyes to what an arrow broadhead combination is capable of when done right.

      The main thing I retained out of these experiments was this; for the same weight arrow, the one with higher FOC will out penetrate every time, and if it was a two blade, it was a lot more penetration.

      We didn't keep records, but we shot everything we had, three different bows and shooters, hundreds of different arrow/broadhed combinations and case after case of beer.

      We didn't have a chrono back then so I can't say what the speeds were, but I would imagine they were probably around the 260-280 FPS mark. My PSE at the time was the only bow that had been chronoed and it shot 277 FPS.

      Other than my broadhead target, which is a sand trap, this is the only penetration testing I have ever done.

      Now that I'm waxing nostalgic I may re-run this little experiment and make a video of it all. It was very interesting to say the least.

      Here is a good video with a bunch of numbers that Ranch Fairy just put out a few days ago with some good shots on a 175 lb dead pig; many different arrows and broadhead combinations.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3ZzJlrSV7A
      Since there is no like button. LIKE.

      Comment


        #19
        Best part of this site is the wealth of knowledge that is shared. Thank you both for the threads and responses on mt let off thread.
        (LIKE!!!)

        Comment


          #20
          I would like to ask y'all something, if I switch from a 100 gr broadhead to a 125 gr broadhead how much more drop do you have at 60 yards?

          Comment


            #21
            Originally posted by Rat View Post
            If you want me to run your arrow...

            Send me a PM with:

            Your bow's make, model and year along with the current spec's (draw weight and length).

            Your arrow build info, make model and length of arrow (carbon to carbon), fletching type and number, nock type (plus any bushings), tip weight and insert type. Anything that adds weight will also need to be included, like wraps or lighted nocks, etc.

            Send your email in the PM and I will work it up and then send you a screen shot of the arrow as it is now and with the changes you want to make to show the difference.

            For those of you wanting a program of your own. I use TAP Pro, this is a full ballistic program for everything. but there is also a product called Spinal TAP that is just for arrows. I have been using TAP Pro for years and is the most accurate arrow ballistic program I have found; as determined by the accuracy of the tape and cut chart outputs anyway.

            It is not free and I don't know if there is a free trial period or not.

            http://www.thearcheryprogram.com/products

            Keep in mind that if you have a brand 2018 bow I will not have the specs for this bow until late Feb. or early March. But I can get it close enough for arrow spine selection.
            Sent you a pm

            Comment


              #22
              Originally posted by Radar View Post
              I would like to ask y'all something, if I switch from a 100 gr broadhead to a 125 gr broadhead how much more drop do you have at 60 yards?
              Hard to say exactly, every arrow is different. Speed isn't the only factor, there are drag coefficients and mass location (FOC) to take into consideration as well; that's why we use ballistic programs like TAP Pro.

              If you send me your information, as outlined, in a PM I can tell you what the numbers are based on the ballistic charts. It isn't going to be much though.

              Comment


                #23
                Originally posted by kd350 View Post
                Sent you a pm
                Got it, I'll run the specs tonight and send you an email.

                Comment


                  #24
                  Originally posted by Rat View Post
                  Got it, I'll run the specs tonight and send you an email.
                  Did you get my email?

                  Comment


                    #25
                    Originally posted by Traildust View Post
                    Did you get my email?
                    No email Traildust...
                    hvacrat@gmail.com

                    Comment


                      #26
                      Originally posted by Rat View Post
                      No email Traildust...
                      hvacrat@gmail.com
                      Sent

                      Comment


                        #27
                        Great info on this thread! Rat and enewman have made me aware of the advantages of momentum and FOC through threads like these. I would have never known the advantages otherwise. Glad this forum is back!

                        Comment


                          #28
                          Originally posted by enewman View Post
                          Since there is no like button. LIKE.


                          There is
                          Kinda ;-)

                          Comment


                            #29
                            Tag

                            Comment


                              #30
                              tagged

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X