Another affordable thermal - FLIR Thermosight Pro PTS233

[Kbar]

Thank you for the updates Jason.

[Outdoor Legacy]

Quick Update: I spoke with my FLIR rep again today and it looks like the first shipment of PTS233's is going to be delayed a week or so because they are making a final fix/improvement to the video recording system before they ship out. Best case scenario estimate is that they start shipping late next week.

[csmith936]

Any word yet?

[coachwhip]

Been watching this thread as well, B&H photo says it will arrive November 13. Don't know if thats true or not.

[Outdoor Legacy]

No good word yet on a date. B&H is pulling that date completely out of thin air and if they turn out to be right, it's just because they got wildly lucky....like picked the lottery numbers lucky. The "official" word is actually 2 weeks. Now it's up to you if you want to believe that or not. It was "officially" 2 weeks about 8 weeks ago....then it was 2 more weeks....and then 2 more weeks. Do you see a pattern?

I talked to FLIR about this on Wednesday and honestly, no one knows when this scope is going to be available at this point. I'll be 100% honest with you, if I get a phone call next week that says it's shipping out, I will not be one bit surprised. If I don't get a phone call until the day after Christmas that says it's shipping out, I won't be one bit surprised. Seriously, at this point, no one knows.

I have high hopes for the scope, but at this point, there is no way I'd miss a fall/winter season of hog hunting waiting on this thing. If I was in the market for a thermal scope today and on a budget, I'd buy the Pulsar Core RXQ30V or I'd upgrade to the Pulsar Apex XQ38. The Apex XQ38 is $300 more than the FLIR PTS233 and the image quality on the Apex will, hands down be better than the PTS233, although the Apex doesn't have internal video recording.

But when we come full circle and you want internal video recording on a budget, the FLIR PTS233 is going to be your least expensive option by several hundred dollars and that's what is making is such a hot item! No question, it's going to sell like hot cakes....whenever if finally comes out.

[4dog]

I love these "affordable" thermal threads....im so broke i cant pay attention !!

[Outdoor Legacy]

I love these "affordable" thermal threads....im so broke i cant pay attention !!

Ha! I totally get that. The thing is, last year entry level thermal was $3,000-$4,000, so when it's $1,899-$2,199 this year, it's much more affordable, even if it's still a lot of money. The good thing is, for guys that still can't swing it for thermal, they can save up for something like a Sightmark Photon for $499 and still get into the NV game. And if that's still too much money, I've seen a few steals on used ones in the classifieds from time to time.

But yep, I get it. $2k isn't "affordable" for everyone but $2k opens up the game to a lot more people than when it started at $5k. The prices are moving in the right direction, that's for sure!

[Fordnandez]

I am new to thermal so please excuse my dumb questions. There are two different resolutions mentioned. The core and the display. Just to confirm the display is the screen you are looking at correct? What is the core? The smaller the microns the better correct? Lastly is the microns the size of the pixels?

[csmith936]

No good word yet on a date. B&H is pulling that date completely out of thin air and if they turn out to be right, it's just because they got wildly lucky....like picked the lottery numbers lucky. The "official" word is actually 2 weeks. Now it's up to you if you want to believe that or not. It was "officially" 2 weeks about 8 weeks ago....then it was 2 more weeks....and then 2 more weeks. Do you see a pattern?

I talked to FLIR about this on Wednesday and honestly, no one knows when this scope is going to be available at this point. I'll be 100% honest with you, if I get a phone call next week that says it's shipping out, I will not be one bit surprised. If I don't get a phone call until the day after Christmas that says it's shipping out, I won't be one bit surprised. Seriously, at this point, no one knows.

I have high hopes for the scope, but at this point, there is no way I'd miss a fall/winter season of hog hunting waiting on this thing. If I was in the market for a thermal scope today and on a budget, I'd buy the Pulsar Core RXQ30V or I'd upgrade to the Pulsar Apex XQ38. The Apex XQ38 is $300 more than the FLIR PTS233 and the image quality on the Apex will, hands down be better than the PTS233, although the Apex doesn't have internal video recording.

But when we come full circle and you want internal video recording on a budget, the FLIR PTS233 is going to be your least expensive option by several hundred dollars and that's what is making is such a hot item! No question, it's going to sell like hot cakes....whenever if finally comes out.

I hope that it is in fact.... "2 weeks"

[Outdoor Legacy]

I am new to thermal so please excuse my dumb questions. There are two different resolutions mentioned. The core and the display. Just to confirm the display is the screen you are looking at correct? What is the core? The smaller the microns the better correct? Lastly is the microns the size of the pixels?

Not dumb questions at all, very insightful questions actually.

Yes the display is just the screen you are looking at. While it is very important, no matter how good the display is, it can't make up for a poor thermal core or even a good thermal core with a low resolution. Let's compare this to a digital camera, it's really the same thing. If you have a really low megapixel camera and a high resolution screen on the back, no matter how good the screen is, it can't compensate for the crappy low resolution sensor and the picture will still be grainy and pixelated, especially when you zoom in on the image.

The thermal core is actually called a microbolometer. Without getting all geeky, (and I don't really understand scientifically how it works) the thermal core is what processes the infrared energy (or heat as we can call it) and it turns it into the image you seen on the screen. I know anyone who really understands this process will read that and cringe.lol For our simplistic discussion, it's like the image sensor. The higher the resolution there, the better. Currently 640x480 is as good as it gets for consumers. 384x288 is the standard core resolution and anything much under that starts to get sort of sketchy. There are a decent amount of units in the 336x256 or 320x256 resolution range and they are good for entry level optics but once you get much below that, it's considered very low resolution for thermal.

When it comes to microns, this can get extremely complicated so let's keep it simple, since I'm pretty simple. Microns is actually a measurement, like inches, feet, miles etc. Microns is the measurement of the "pixel pitch". FLIR describes pixel pitch as "spacing between pixel centers". Pixel pitch is often referred to as the size of the pixels. So let's just stop there and say that yes, the smaller the number the better. Currently for consumers, 12 microns is as low as it goes. The Trijicon/IR Defense units are 12 microns. All this year's Pulsar units are 17 microns. The last 2-3 years all the Pulsar units were 25 microns. So we are heading in the right direction. Generally, the lower the micron measurement the better the image quality.

One one hand the 12 microns of the FLIR PTS233 is amazing, it's unheard of in a scope for under $6,000. But on the flip side, it is only 320x256 core resolution which is lacking a little. The thought is, the 12 microns will help make up for the lesser resolution. We will have to wait and see. IF the PTS233 was 384x288 AND 12 microns, that would pretty crazy, but it's not. I still have high hopes for the price/features.

I hope that helps a little bit. It's really confusing when you dig deep but here is the cliff notes that everyone can understand. Generally here is what you want in a thermal optic:

High thermal core resolution
Low microns
High quality and high resolution display (AMOLED/OLED preferred)
30Hz refresh rate is perfectly fine for normal hunting conditions
50-60Hz refresh rate for fast moving hunting like from a Jeep/helicopter etc.

I hope that helps.

- Jason

[35remington]

Annnnnnnnd this ^^^^ is why Jason gets my business every time. Show me another retailer who goes that far out of his way to answer a question.

[Fordnandez]

Thanks for the information Jason! One last question and if you can not publicly answer this question I understand. In your professional opinion which one has a better image this Flir or the $1,900 Pulsar? If I understand correctly you have not held this Flir but have held one with the same core and display correct? I might be in the minority in the fact that I don't care about being able to record or any other abilities, I am just interested in what it looks like when I look down the scope. AND I don't want to pay a bunch of money for it......... not asking for too much am I? For the record this is sarcasm.

[Kurdawg]

I wonder if the wife would buy this for me for christmas

[MedicineMan7]

I wonder if the wife would buy this for me for christmas

I thought the same thing!!

[Outdoor Legacy]

Thanks for the information Jason! One last question and if you can not publicly answer this question I understand. In your professional opinion which one has a better image this Flir or the $1,900 Pulsar? If I understand correctly you have not held this Flir but have held one with the same core and display correct? I might be in the minority in the fact that I don't care about being able to record or any other abilities, I am just interested in what it looks like when I look down the scope. AND I don't want to pay a bunch of money for it......... not asking for too much am I? For the record this is sarcasm.

Great question. Quite honestly, it would not be a very professional opinion if I gave one before I've actually held and used the FLIR. And that's not a cop-out. I'll honestly give you my comparison once I've used the FLIR.

I did hear some news......the PTS233's are going to be shipping sooner than later. Like real "sooner", but that's all I should say. The problem is, it's going to take FLIR another couple months to get through the initial pre-order backlog so it's going to be first come, first serve for awhile. Honestly, unless I'm wrong, I think you'll have to put a back order in with a dealer to get one before Christmas. I just don't think they are going to be sitting on the shelf right now due to supply/demand.

Let me get my hands on my first unit and I'll report back and give you some honest answers.

- Jason