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Old 11-18-2019, 01:55 PM   #1
DirtyDave
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Default Y'all tired of voluntarily paying Fed Income Tax?

I am.
I'm about half way through Dave Champion's book and it's enlightening!

Basically boils down to we have been trained our whole lives to believe we Have to pay Fed Income Tax by LAW. But no such law exists that says the average American worker in the private sector is required to pay it!

https://davechampionsliberty.com/
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:02 PM   #2
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Those "sovereign citizen taxes are voluntary" scammers are a dime a dozen....
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:04 PM   #3
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Hope that goes well for you.

Republic of Texas will also tell you that you don't need Texas driver's license or license plates, because Texas is a republic, not a state. Will also tell you that the police and judges of Texas have no jurisdiction over you. Have taken a few to jail, and the judges don't see it that way either.

Good luck.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:05 PM   #4
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Taxation is theft no matter how you try to dress it up
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:17 PM   #5
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A country can't exist without revenue. I would love to hear your plans for running a nation without taxes.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:23 PM   #6
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Case law is full of people who have unsuccessfully asserted that they are not required to pay income tax.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
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A country can't exist without revenue. I would love to hear your plans for running a nation without taxes.
Without Federal Income Tax? Absolutely a country can exist. Has been around a while already......
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:24 PM   #8
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If you want to have some fun go on the Youtubes and watch sovereign citizen fail videos.

Great stuff.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by flyby View Post
Hope that goes well for you.



Republic of Texas will also tell you that you don't need Texas driver's license or license plates, because Texas is a republic, not a state. Will also tell you that the police and judges of Texas have no jurisdiction over you. Have taken a few to jail, and the judges don't see it that way either.



Good luck.


Haha yep I remember those “ you ain’t got nothing on me” I’d just say “yes I do handcuffs!!!! “


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Old 11-18-2019, 02:30 PM   #10
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I know a guy that bought into that several years ago and decided he wouldn't pay any taxes anymore. Long story short, he lost a few thousand acres of farm and ranch land when it came time to catch back up on all his back taxes.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:31 PM   #11
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Apparently this Champion guy charges $300/hr for his "services" and was issued an injuction to cease them.

He seems totally legit and just a patriot who cares about we the people to me...

My ex g/f's brother was one of those "taxes are voluntary" types who was writing a book on the whole thing. 40- something years old at the time and still loving at home...last I heard he never figured out how he could prove they were voluntary and write his book.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:32 PM   #12
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Any court rulings on his line of thinking?


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Old 11-18-2019, 02:38 PM   #13
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Any court rulings on his line of thinking?


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Doesn't matter in his fantasy land, just buy his book and he'll tell you!
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:40 PM   #14
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Seen lots of jailhouse lawyers try and argue all kinda points of law with prosecutors and judges only to get shut down, some were really well thought out but none I ever saw won in court


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Old 11-18-2019, 02:43 PM   #15
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Ask Wesley Snipes how that goes...
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:44 PM   #16
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Or Willie Nelson he had to cut some album to pay off his past due taxes


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Old 11-18-2019, 02:51 PM   #17
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I read enough fiction on TBH and don't need more from him.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
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A country can't exist without revenue. I would love to hear your plans for running a nation without taxes.
Agreed, however this is crazy today.

Income tax when you earn it,
Tax on money you make off of saving it
taxed when you spend it
taxed on property you then own after paying income tax, sales tax then now property tax
If you invest it you will pay tax
yearly registration on all auto Tax
cable bill and cell phone is full of all kinds of extra tax
extra tax on fuel
extra tax on hunting gear
extra tax on alcohol
extra tax on strip clubs

Every way you turn your head there is some other bs tax being added on.


We are not using it to run a government, it is be used to make politicians even more wealthy

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Old 11-18-2019, 03:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
I know a guy that bought into that several years ago and decided he wouldn't pay any taxes anymore. Long story short, he lost a few thousand acres of farm and ranch land when it came time to catch back up on all his back taxes.
Paying off the tax owed is easy . . But the fines and interest will bankrupt you . .

Fighting Texas Aggies . .
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
I know a guy that bought into that several years ago and decided he wouldn't pay any taxes anymore. Long story short, he lost a few thousand acres of farm and ranch land when it came time to catch back up on all his back taxes.
I had a client many years ago that bought into all that - he was a disciple of the first big celebrity tax protester, Irwin Schiff. Schiff didn't file for decades and wrote many books about why you didnt have to either. In 2015 he died in prison serving a long sentence. I was always baffled by this client of mine, as he was a smart, educated and successful man. He would preach to me about it and I would try to reason with him but to no avail. He did not go to jail but blew through 80% of his assets in attorney fees and IRS penalties before he admitted defeat. He went to his grave swearing he was in the right....

Last edited by jerp; 11-18-2019 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:17 AM   #21
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I had a client many years ago that bought into all that - he was a disciple of the first big celebrity tax protester, Irwin Schiff. Schiff didn't file for decades and wrote many books about why you didnt have to either. In 2015 he died in prison serving a long sentence. I was always baffled by this client of mine, as he was a smart, educated and successful man. He would preach to me about it and I would try to reason with him but to no avail. He did not go to jail but blew through 80% of his assets in attorney fees and IRS penalties before he admitted defeat. He went to his grave swearing he was in the right....
From what I've read, Irwin Schiff got some things wrong and that's what got him busted. I think the main thing was he filed "exempt" rather than not filing at all.

PS: I haven't taken any action, just learning all I can at this point. From others successes and failures mainly.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:20 AM   #22
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Technically you don't have to.You just have to like concrete,and bars

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Old 11-19-2019, 10:20 AM   #23
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can't roll my eyes hard enough...... Everyone must pay taxes like it or not. THE END
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
From what I've read, Irwin Schiff got some things wrong and that's what got him busted. I think the main thing was he filed "exempt" rather than not filing at all.

PS: I haven't taken any action, just learning all I can at this point. From others successes and failures mainly.
No problem, if you don’t get it right you still have three hots and a cot in the Gray Bar Hotel
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
From what I've read, Irwin Schiff got some things wrong and that's what got him busted. I think the main thing was he filed "exempt" rather than not filing at all.

PS: I haven't taken any action, just learning all I can at this point. From others successes and failures mainly.
let me put this as delicately as i can. you're an idiot if you don't pay your fed income taxes.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:34 AM   #26
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I have a friend that lived by this reasoning for five years. He ended up spending three years in jail and having to pay back taxes with interest. I think I would pay my taxes
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:45 AM   #27
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Taxes have been around for a loooooong time.......render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's.

Don't get me wrong, the things that are taxed now are stupid but I'll continue to pay them in order to live outside the concrete and bars.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:58 AM   #28
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I think we can all agree that we're overtaxed. DirtyMike had a prime example...taxed for life, then taxed again when you're dead.

I'm all about trying to lower taxes, but you need taxes. If you went to work today, or hell, left your house today and were on a public road, that's taxes. Don't pay taxes and I won't feel bad for you when local PD and fire don't show up to help. House get hit by tornado? FEMA... paid for somehow by taxes. Don't want Russia invading the country? Guess where the military budget comes from...

I will gladly pay taxes, but let's look at our federal spending so we can find areas where we can save money and pay less in taxes and still have the same type of benefits we enjoy that our taxes pay for.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:02 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharecropper View Post
Paying off the tax owed is easy . . But the fines and interest will bankrupt you . .

Fighting Texas Aggies . .
Yep. And the lawyer bills....and the jail time away from work....
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:02 AM   #30
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Taxes are absolutely theft!

Arguing with a thief that's holding a gun isn't smart! (Whether he's wearing a badge or not)

Only about 20% of the tax code deals with what you have to pay-the other 80% tells you ways to not pay so much!
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:04 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerp View Post
I had a client many years ago that bought into all that - he was a disciple of the first big celebrity tax protester, Irwin Schiff. Schiff didn't file for decades and wrote many books about why you didnt have to either. In 2015 he died in prison serving a long sentence. I was always baffled by this client of mine, as he was a smart, educated and successful man. He would preach to me about it and I would try to reason with him but to no avail. He did not go to jail but blew through 80% of his assets in attorney fees and IRS penalties before he admitted defeat. He went to his grave swearing he was in the right....
That stinks for him and his family.

I think the tax burden that all levels of government put on us is immoral. But just deciding to opt out of it isn't a good way to fight it.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:05 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by ctom87 View Post
I think we can all agree that we're overtaxed. DirtyMike had a prime example...taxed for life, then taxed again when you're dead.

I'm all about trying to lower taxes, but you need taxes. If you went to work today, or hell, left your house today and were on a public road, that's taxes. Don't pay taxes and I won't feel bad for you when local PD and fire don't show up to help. House get hit by tornado? FEMA... paid for somehow by taxes. Don't want Russia invading the country? Guess where the military budget comes from...

I will gladly pay taxes, but let's look at our federal spending so we can find areas where we can save money and pay less in taxes and still have the same type of benefits we enjoy that our taxes pay for.
only problem we are going the wrong direction, more tax's while the fat cats in DC get more money, those roads you speak of are now becoming toll roads so you are paying again.

The king's purse will never be satisfied i am afraid.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:15 AM   #33
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I believe Johnny Paycheck said it best . . Calling IRS agents "Dracula dressed in a gray flannel suit" . .

Fighting Texas Aggies . .
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:16 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ctom87 View Post
I think we can all agree that we're overtaxed. DirtyMike had a prime example...taxed for life, then taxed again when you're dead.

I'm all about trying to lower taxes, but you need taxes. If you went to work today, or hell, left your house today and were on a public road, that's taxes. Don't pay taxes and I won't feel bad for you when local PD and fire don't show up to help. House get hit by tornado? FEMA... paid for somehow by taxes. Don't want Russia invading the country? Guess where the military budget comes from...

I will gladly pay taxes, but let's look at our federal spending so we can find areas where we can save money and pay less in taxes and still have the same type of benefits we enjoy that our taxes pay for.
Federal Income Tax doesn't pay for any of those things......

That's the only tax I'm talking about. It's the only tax the book goes over.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:29 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
Federal Income Tax doesn't pay for any of those things......

That's the only tax I'm talking about. It's the only tax the book goes over.
Oh but it does....or have you forgotten about all the "improvements" made in roads and such under obama? They installed turn lanes in Jermyn Texas... I know a guy who owns a welding/fab shop who built a bunchy of steel handrails and such for all the curb ramps and sidewalks in downtown Vernon, because they HAD TO spend/**** away their obama money.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:30 AM   #36
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Just for the record, very few of us are gonna pay the death tax, but if you’re in the chips that well, there are legal remedies to avoid that.

If one of the socialists who is currently running for Prez gets elected, you might want to do that sooner rather than later....
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:30 AM   #37
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These people are those special types who end up going to jail for not wearing a seatbelt because they just have to be a relentless ******* to a cop...
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:37 AM   #38
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Oh but it does....or have you forgotten about all the "improvements" made in roads and such under obama? They installed turn lanes in Jermyn Texas... I know a guy who owns a welding/fab shop who built a bunchy of steel handrails and such for all the curb ramps and sidewalks in downtown Vernon, because they HAD TO spend/**** away their obama money.
Fuel tax pays for roads.

But yeah that's they way budgets in the Gov work. Spend all of it or more otherwise risk getting your budget reduced next year. That's why the EPA spends about $6k per employee on "furniture"..

Obama blew a bunch of money on "programs" especially Green energy. People took the free money and ran.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:38 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
From what I've read, Irwin Schiff got some things wrong and that's what got him busted. I think the main thing was he filed "exempt" rather than not filing at all.

PS: I haven't taken any action, just learning all I can at this point. From others successes and failures mainly.
Please post where someone/anyone has had success with not paying ANY taxes.

Like other's have posted. I know people that bought into that theory. It didn't end well after about 3 or 4 years, and they dang near lost everything they had trying to get back on the right side of it in the end. It ain't worth it, don't get fooled, don't be a fool.
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Old 11-19-2019, 11:43 AM   #40
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I agree, we're being taxed to death & it's unacceptable. Certain state taxes are absolutely unacceptable as well.
Take selling a car for instance. Taxed EVERY time it's sold.
In Texas:
$50,000 new vehicle
$3,125 tax when bought new
Sell it a couple years later for $32K
$2K paid in tax
Sell it a couple years later for $20K
$1,250 paid in tax
Sell it a couple years later for $12K
$750 paid in tax
The state has now received over $5K just in taxes for this 1 vehicle in 6 years. That same vehicle will probably be sold a few more times for a could grand more in taxes. How is this acceptable? Seems like it's time for some tea in the harbor again.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:08 PM   #41
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Had some friends try this 20+ yrs. ago, they all wound up paying their income taxes plus penalties and interest, all agreed it was a dumb decision.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:10 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Puggy625 View Post
Please post where someone/anyone has had success with not paying ANY taxes.
Lots of folks have success not paying income taxes.....until they dont.
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
Fuel tax pays for roads.

But yeah that's they way budgets in the Gov work. Spend all of it or more otherwise risk getting your budget reduced next year. That's why the EPA spends about $6k per employee on "furniture"..

Obama blew a bunch of money on "programs" especially Green energy. People took the free money and ran.
Report: 21st Century Transportation

The new report pulls back the veil on the “users pay” myth, finding that:

Gas taxes and other fees paid by drivers now cover less than half of road construction and maintenance costs nationally – down from more than 70 percent in the 1960s – with the balance coming chiefly from income, sales and property taxes and other levies on general taxpayers.
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:04 PM   #44
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I don't care if you pay income tax, but pay you Social Security tax so the gov can send me my check!
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:21 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by db@100 View Post
I don't care if you pay income tax, but pay you Social Security tax so the gov can send me my check!
The money we pay into SS is not the same money you get paid when on SS.

Paying into SS and getting paid SS are not related
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:45 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Txhuntr2 View Post
Case law is full of people who have unsuccessfully asserted that they are not required to pay income tax.
Yep Wesly Snipes (spelling?) said he didn't have to pay $23,000,000 in back taxes for 3 years. He served about 3 years in prison and has been making "B" movies since and still hasn't recovered financially from it.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:02 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtymike View Post
Agreed, however this is crazy today.

Income tax when you earn it,
Tax on money you make off of saving it
taxed when you spend it
taxed on property you then own after paying income tax, sales tax then now property tax
If you invest it you will pay tax
yearly registration on all auto Tax
cable bill and cell phone is full of all kinds of extra tax
extra tax on fuel
extra tax on hunting gear
extra tax on alcohol
extra tax on strip clubs
Every way you turn your head there is some other bs tax being added on.


We are not using it to run a government, it is be used to make politicians even more wealthy

Property taxes on my place have gone up 9% each of the last three years. Out right robbery!!
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:16 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by LFD2037 View Post
I agree, we're being taxed to death & it's unacceptable. Certain state taxes are absolutely unacceptable as well.
Take selling a car for instance. Taxed EVERY time it's sold.
In Texas:
$50,000 new vehicle
$3,125 tax when bought new
Sell it a couple years later for $32K
$2K paid in tax
Sell it a couple years later for $20K
$1,250 paid in tax
Sell it a couple years later for $12K
$750 paid in tax
The state has now received over $5K just in taxes for this 1 vehicle in 6 years. That same vehicle will probably be sold a few more times for a could grand more in taxes. How is this acceptable? Seems like it's time for some tea in the harbor again.

Dont forget the fact that sales tax is supposed to be based on what you paid for it, but on vehicles they charge taxes based on what THEY say its worth! Not what you actually paid!

Yep, THEY decide the rate, and value! If thats not crooked then nothing is.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:20 AM   #49
miket
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Oh, as far as income tax, absolutely Im tired of paying it. But its a fight I cannot win so its a fight I wont start. I admit Im scared of the repercussions so I make sure I pay every penny they feel I owe.

My motto: Dont start none, wont be none! ( I hope )
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:43 AM   #50
bullets13
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Take the book as a work of fiction. To do more than that will be putting you and your family at severe financial risk.
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