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Old 12-11-2013, 07:21 PM   #1
ice-pick
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Default Bowtech Admiral penetration problems? HELP!

I have had my Bowtech Admiral for about two years. I got it brand new. I have taken 6 shots at deer this season all about 20 yards out. I have made contact with 5 deer and only killed one. I'm wondering if there could be a a problem with my bow. All arrows were CE 350 shafts. It is a 60-70# bow. I have it set on the low end at about 62-63#.

#1 shoulder hit - Grim Reaper razor tip no penetration
#2 arm hit - Exodus - shattered the arrow
#3 single lung pass through - CE Quad Pro - buck didn't go down
#4 miss low - Exodus
#5 perfect behind the shoulder shot - CE Quad Pro - 1-2" penetration BH snapped off - doe lived
#6 lung/heart hit - Dead Ringer Rampage 3 blade - only about 6 inch penetration KILL SHOT

Don't want to make this a BH discussion. Just want to know what might be wrong with my bow.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:24 PM   #2
150class
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Defiently probably going to turn into a broadhead discussion

Love my admiral, pass throughs on pass throughs on pass throughs......

shooting at 70 lbs on mine
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:52 PM   #3
Csmith52779
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I tuning issue and shot placement bud.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:54 PM   #4
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1 bone not good
2 bone not good
3 single lung & what?
4 not good
5 got nothing
6 heart lung good.


half the shots not good, 2 suspect. 1 congrats on the deer.

its not the poundage, probably a lack of proper tune up, arrow flying sideways.
good luck sorting it out.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:58 PM   #5
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Paper/walk back tune
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:58 PM   #6
ice-pick
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Yeah, my good friend has an Admiral. That's why I have an Admiral now. I got my first hog with his bow and I was hooked. He's running his around 68# and everything he's shot has a pass through.

Arrows are flying straight while target shooting at the same distances. Groups of 1-2" depending on the day.

Might be proper tuning with BH.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #7
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That bow isn't tuned properly is my guess.

Which Carbon Express arrows do you have?
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:28 PM   #8
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You need to bh tune. That will get your arrows flying straight. Anything fp will give the illusion if good arrow flight if your centershot. But when you bh tune that's when you see what the arrow is actually doing. I shoot 58-60 pounds and get pass thrus 93% percent of the time. Your poundage is fine.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:33 PM   #9
WKH2213
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Not sure where you're located, but I'd tune it for you for free.
I shoot an Admiral at 72lbs and have figured out the tuning on these bows.
I've even got a brand new set of Wicked 1 strings we could slap on if there's an issue.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:35 AM   #10
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Operator error. Tune the bow, arrows and broadheads and study the correct shot placement. Practice, practice and practice until you have a high level of confidence in yourself and your ability to use your equipment to the best of your ability. Everything in your equipment have to work like a well oiled machine and you have to have the confidence in that machine and your ability to use that machine. Anything missing out of this equation or if there is any doubt in any of it and you are putting yourself at a lot bigger disadvantage that what you start with by using archery equipment. With the confidence in the equipment and your ability to use that equipment you are out there just asking for a shot because you know you can make a killing shot if given the opportunity. Any doubts in any of it and the likelihood of a miss or non lethal hit comes into play big time! Good luck.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:32 PM   #11
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I could have a field day with this one.




But I will say that bow is not tuned.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragin' View Post
I could have a field day with this one.




But I will say that bow is not tuned.
yup

i had an admiral was my last bowtech before i moved to mathews.

It killed piles of animals and was faster then any mathews I've shot since the z7. it's a killer and candidly took me a 1/4 of the time to tune compared to the single cams of the mathews.

Tuning is something you can fix.

Shot placement is something you need to fix
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:36 PM   #13
ice-pick
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Yeah, the Bowtech shop is kind of far away and has crappy customer service. Just discovered the Mathews shop nearer to my house and super service - even on my Bowtech. I wouldn't have guessed that the Mathews would take longer to tune.

All good points and suggestions. Still more work to be done to take it to the next level.

Thanks!
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:13 PM   #14
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You yourself are very capable of tuning the bow yourself if you have room to shoot. Look up the Easton broadhead tuning chart and follow it and it will fix your tuning problem unless your cams are out of sync.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:16 PM   #15
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Also, make sure the cams both hit the stops at the same time.
The back wall will be rock solid if they do. If not, if will feel spongy
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:31 PM   #16
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Is there a way to check both cams? Have a friend look when you shoot?
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:34 PM   #17
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That can work
You can feel and see them also when you draw back
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:52 PM   #18
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Easton Tuning Guide:
Tuning Guide

Read these two threads:
Walk Back and Modified French Tuning
Why Tune Your Bow

My Tuning Sequence:
Rat's Tuning Sequence

Even a questionable shot, like hitting the shoulder blade, should still get good penetration; your problem is undoubtedly a tuning problem. You only had 6" of penetration on a soft tissue hit...

Unless you are really flinching at the shot you need to look at tuning the bow and arrows. The threads above will help you understand the why and the mechanics of tuning your rig.
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WKH2213 View Post
Also, make sure the cams both hit the stops at the same time.
The back wall will be rock solid if they do. If not, if will feel spongy
its highly unlikely that the binary cams are not rotating "together" properly

they may be out of tune but the binary cam is a lot like the cam.5 where they are slaved to each other in a sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat View Post
Easton Tuning Guide:
Tuning Guide

Read these two threads:
Walk Back and Modified French Tuning
Why Tune Your Bow

My Tuning Sequence:
Rat's Tuning Sequence

Even a questionable shot, like hitting the shoulder blade, should still get good penetration; your problem is undoubtedly a tuning problem. You only had 6" of penetration on a soft tissue hit...

Unless you are really flinching at the shot you need to look at tuning the bow and arrows. The threads above will help you understand the why and the mechanics of tuning your rig.

this is your answer
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:08 AM   #20
ice-pick
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Thanks Rat! I've got some reading to do this weekend.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:12 PM   #21
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Love my Admiral, never had this problem. Could be tuning. I would set up a target at 20 yards and put a video camera pointing at the target about 5 yards away on a 45 degree angle. Shoot the target and then watch the video in slow motion. Are your arrows hitting the target perpendicularly or on an angle?
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGeminski View Post
Love my Admiral, never had this problem. Could be tuning. I would set up a target at 20 yards and put a video camera pointing at the target about 5 yards away on a 45 degree angle. Shoot the target and then watch the video in slow motion. Are your arrows hitting the target perpendicularly or on an angle?


Hope he got it figured out, we gave him five years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
Hope he got it figured out, we gave him five years.


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:-)
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:25 AM   #24
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I could write a book on this post. To the op. Lots of information on this sight. Start reading and doing.


Here are 12 steps to look at when building a penetration system. It’s bssiclly instructions. This is a cut down version of the steps. This comes from dr ashby.

1. “Structural Integrity of the entire arrow system is the most important factor. It applies to every aspect of the arrow, from the broadhead tip and edge strength to the nock”.
2. Arrow Flight is number two in importance.”You should spare neither effort nor expense in achieving absolute perfect arrow flight.”
3. A higher FOC is important. The degree of arrow forward of center ( FOC) makes a big difference. “Above 19 % the penetration gain continues increases as FOC increases”.
4. A higher Mechanical Advantage is important. The higher the mechanical advantage of the broadhead the more pronounced effect it has on penetration.
5. Shaft-Diameter to Ferrule-Diameter Ratio can be critical. The diameter of the broadhead should be larger than the arrow shaft
6. Arrow Mass or arrow weight is important.”You should use the heaviest arrow acceptable trajectory allows.”
7. Broadheads should be Shaving Sharp. A smooth sharp edge is better than a serrated edge.
8. When considering Shaft Profile, tapered shafts have an advantage.
9. A smooth Broadhead With No Bumps to impede penetration is desirable.”How gradually and smoothly the broadheads ferrule fades into the blade becomes a major penetration factor when heavy bone is hit.”
10. The Type of Edge Bevel is important.”When broadheads, identical in all aspects except edge-bevel, are tested side by side on identical arrows, single-bevel versions demonstrate penetration increases in 100% of cases involving bone impact”
11. When discussing Tip Design Dr. Ashby believes “the Tanto shows the best performance”
12. Arrow Mass or weight probably has little effect in soft tissue. However, there is a significance difference if bone is encountered.

Good luck

Last edited by enewman; 07-27-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:38 AM   #25
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Good info Newman but he hasn't posted since 2016, not likely to see his resurrected 5 year old thread.

Old or not, it's a good reminder to tune, practice and make good decisions on equipment before hand to prevent a season like he had.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
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Old 07-28-2018, 06:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick8 View Post
Good info Newman but he hasn't posted since 2016, not likely to see his resurrected 5 year old thread.

Old or not, it's a good reminder to tune, practice and make good decisions on equipment before hand to prevent a season like he had.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
hahaha I didn't notice the date. hahaha but I wasn't the only one. so I dont feel to stupid heheheh
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