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taking out a strong genetic trait

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    #16
    Originally posted by Shane View Post
    Kill half of them, Codie. That way you still have some really cool freaks with all that character, but not every buck looks like that. Pretty cool deer.
    there is a thought - If he keeps looking as young as he does in these pics I am going to rule out both shooting him and this being that same buck from last year as "Medusa" was an old guy last year. My guess is that he just looks young in these pics though
    Last edited by Codie; 08-17-2017, 01:21 PM.

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      #17
      Originally posted by tex4k View Post
      If it is genetic, how do you propose to eliminate his daughters that are going to pass on that trait also?
      I don't believe that to be possible (as stated in my original post), which is why I am questioning if it is something I should be worried about taking over the herd or if it should probably just continue being a herd with a 25% funky buck profile? As long as it is not going to continue growing in percentage of bucks in the herd with odd antlers then I am not going to worry too much about it and just let them get old and hope one of them turns into some giant non-typical buck down the road

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        #18
        Just kill all the does that have tattoos and various piercings. They're the ones that are attracted to the freaks.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Shane View Post
          Just kill all the does that have tattoos and various piercings. They're the ones that are attracted to the freaks.
          very true - GOTH does beware!

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            #20
            I'd be happy to burn a tag on one for you ... in the name of cleaning up the gene pool, of course!

            Heck, I'm such a nice guy, if it's a 2 buck county, I'll burn TWO tags!

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              #21
              The real question is this. Are those bucks inheriting that trait from the buck or the doe?

              Not sure about whitetail, but I know most every breeding operation for any other animal puts as much or more thought into the dam as they do the sire

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                #22
                Originally posted by Drycreek3189 View Post
                Different strokes........., but if it were me, I'd manage for age and not antler characteristics.
                But then, I don't see that rack as ugly, just unique. Nice main frame eights are a dime a dozen. Lots of folks would rather mount your deer over a slick eight.
                I agree.

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                  #23
                  You can kill him and his little buddy, but if the trait is genetic it'll still be there in other deer that he genetically originated from...

                  Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

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                    #24
                    I read somewhere a few years back that the gene for antler characteristics was carried by the doe, and not the buck. If true, that would put a whole new crimp in our "antler improvement" plans for sure.

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                      #25
                      From what I remember reading.

                      You can take the bucks out with this genetic and greatly reduce the pool of bucks from year to year with this genetic. However, you will also need to take out does that have been sired from bucks with this genetic. Since there is no way of knowing which does have been sired with this genetic; you will have to eliminate the bucks which will eventually (all but) eliminate the does.

                      How long will it take, this is contingent on how the genetic material is being presented in the first place. The question to ask is, "Does it take BOTH a sire and dam to produce this abnormality or just one?" The answer is, you just don't know.

                      I think, at best, to get rid of it, you will be looking at something like 4 generations, IIRC. It's been awhile since I read that study, but I'm pretty sure it was 4 generations and that was under controlled breeding, not wild.

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                        #26
                        This study doesn't talk about an abnormality as much as it does spike Vs. forked in the yearling.
                        https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild...deer/genetics/
                        However, it does state that taking out the abnormal antlered deer early results in the best development for antler genetics. It doesn't state this, but it implies that both the sire and dam contribute genetics for potential antler development.

                        This isn't the exact study I remember reading, but I think it illustrates my points.

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                          #27
                          Some information to consider...

                          Young deer will leave their momma at the age of 1, in the spring, or 1.5, in the fall. Called dispersal. A young doe will establish a new home range but it will overlap her mother's. A young buck will up and leave the country. God's way of ensuring genetic diversity.

                          The distance a young buck will travel before setting up his new home range is highly variable, and it depends on habitat continuity and structure, food sources, and deer densities.

                          For example, research conducted in Illinois showed an average dispersal distance of 23 miles in the spring and 11 miles in the fall. An interesting side note, one of the Bucks traveled 99 miles. The majority of bucks disperse in the spring. In a project conducted in Nebraska average yearling Buck dispersal was 15 miles. In a South Texas project, where habitat is uniform and contiguous, yearling buck dispersal averaged 5 miles.

                          The take-home message is this - the bucks that are born on your property disperse and live their lives somewhere else, and the bucks that are 2 yrs+ on your property were born somewhere else.

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                            #28
                            If Mother Nature is left on its own in a free range situation, 8 point bucks are the dominant gene. That is why the hill country for years had mostly 8 points (and still does in some areas).

                            That is also why we hammer any buck age 4 or older and 8 points or under. Yes they may have bred a doe but if you keep after it over a number of years you certainly can have an impact on the 8 point and less buck population. We have many bucks 10 -20 points with drops, kickers, splits, etc. that are a result of our culling inferior deer.

                            I agree that nature also forces young deer to move away from the area they were born in. But on a large ranch like we hunt there is no doubt we have seen off spring of some of our trophy bucks show up. In some cases they look like clones - may be seen 5-6 miles from where their Daddy was shot but there is no doubt out of the same genes

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
                              Some information to consider...

                              Young deer will leave their momma at the age of 1, in the spring, or 1.5, in the fall. Called dispersal. A young doe will establish a new home range but it will overlap her mother's. A young buck will up and leave the country. God's way of ensuring genetic diversity.

                              The distance a young buck will travel before setting up his new home range is highly variable, and it depends on habitat continuity and structure, food sources, and deer densities.

                              For example, research conducted in Illinois showed an average dispersal distance of 23 miles in the spring and 11 miles in the fall. An interesting side note, one of the Bucks traveled 99 miles. The majority of bucks disperse in the spring. In a project conducted in Nebraska average yearling Buck dispersal was 15 miles. In a South Texas project, where habitat is uniform and contiguous, yearling buck dispersal averaged 5 miles.

                              The take-home message is this - the bucks that are born on your property disperse and live their lives somewhere else, and the bucks that are 2 yrs+ on your property were born somewhere else.

                              I've always thought they dispersed in their first rut with hard antler. Interesting. That's been my observation based on my doe density disparity in South Texas.

                              To the OP, this is almost ALWAYS a damaged pedicle.

                              To TKK, the "daddy" thing doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Deer may be related, but a "look" is far more likely to be a herd trait than a familial one. I have many deer with forks, kickers drops 10-20 points etc that are present without me hammering "inferior" deer. If you are killing deer by just counting points and pulling the trigger, you are at a very basic level of understanding which deer need to go, and are taking a lot of deer out of the herd that are going to be very nice trophies.
                              Last edited by Encinal; 08-17-2017, 09:19 PM.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by 2B4Him View Post
                                If it is genetics, you can definitely make a difference. When I got on my lease (10 years ago), we had a genetic strain of having a nice, normal right beam and the left beam would be smooth - no branching at all.
                                We made a concerted effort to eliminate any bucks showing that trait and it has disappeared.
                                BTW, 880 acres low fenced.


                                We had the same thing on our place and after a few years got the same results. Shot all deer that were slick on one side on site and don't get them anymore


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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