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Old 02-12-2018, 09:44 AM   #1
Dusty Britches
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Things you may have heard about CWD by Texas Wildlife Association

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... This article provides a counterweight to things you may have heard about CWD from those who feel CWD is of no significance.

Following are 7 statements you may have heard about CWD and reasons why these statements are misleading at best and absolutely false at worst. ...

I would have copied the article, but there are too many references to properly include here.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:57 AM   #2
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#3 CWD has spread remarkably fast....duh, it IS remarkable how fast a truck/trailer can move.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:19 AM   #3
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Nothing to see here folks....move along.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:24 AM   #4
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I'm amazed by the amount of facts and data that are constantly left out of both sides of the CWD discussion. To blame CWD on breeders alone is ignoring the fact that it was first found in far West Texas were breeder pens do not exist. I could go on but it wouldn't do any good as both sides are stuck with their heads in the sand.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
I'm amazed by the amount of facts and data that are constantly left out of both sides of the CWD discussion. To blame CWD on breeders alone is ignoring the fact that it was first found in far West Texas were breeder pens do not exist. I could go on but it wouldn't do any good as both sides are stuck with their heads in the sand.
Who was blaming it solely breeders alone?
Ignoring the fact that breeders can, have and will transport infected deer all over the state is laughable.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:01 AM   #6
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Not ignoring the deer breeder portion at all. Ever time CWD is brought up breeders get bashed. I am not a deer breeder. Do I think they play a part in CWD? Yes. Do I think they are the reason CWD is in Texas? No. The current laws and regs are mainly aimed at breeders and do nothing to stop the transport of infected deer that are killed and transported by us hunters every year. I can shoot a mule deer that is positive for CWD and take it to XYZ processor in Central Texas and guess what? Good chance said processor has CWD in his facility. I'd be willing to bet that if the did a test of deer processing plants that most if not all would have the CWD prion on their grounds. I would guess the same for taxidermist. Not a person involved in the laws and regs want to discuss that. There are more deer transported by us hunters across county and state lines than breeders ever thought about moving and none of them are being checked. Do you think that might be a bigger problem?
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:15 AM   #7
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Not ignoring the deer breeder portion at all. Ever time CWD is brought up breeders get bashed. I am not a deer breeder. Do I think they play a part in CWD? Yes. Do I think they are the reason CWD is in Texas? No. The current laws and regs are mainly aimed at breeders and do nothing to stop the transport of infected deer that are killed and transported by us hunters every year. I can shoot a mule deer that is positive for CWD and take it to XYZ processor in Central Texas and guess what? Good chance said processor has CWD in his facility. I'd be willing to bet that if the did a test of deer processing plants that most if not all would have the CWD prion on their grounds. I would guess the same for taxidermist. Not a person involved in the laws and regs want to discuss that. There are more deer transported by us hunters across county and state lines than breeders ever thought about moving and none of them are being checked. Do you think that might be a bigger problem?
Ive wondered about this exactly. Particularly concerning myself and my actions when handling harvested critters from other states in units with CWD. I believe CWD in the Washington DC area cervids illustrates this adequately.

CWD found in breeder pens and high breeder density areas is telltale of CWD transport by breeders and is capable of immediate action. Not saying checking all game coming across statelines isnt capable of immediate action...or even county to county hunter transport checkpoints. The apparent necessary precautions and reactionary measures arent appealing to me but seemingly necessary for us all.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:21 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
Not ignoring the deer breeder portion at all. Ever time CWD is brought up breeders get bashed. I am not a deer breeder. Do I think they play a part in CWD? Yes. Do I think they are the reason CWD is in Texas? No. The current laws and regs are mainly aimed at breeders and do nothing to stop the transport of infected deer that are killed and transported by us hunters every year. I can shoot a mule deer that is positive for CWD and take it to XYZ processor in Central Texas and guess what? Good chance said processor has CWD in his facility. I'd be willing to bet that if the did a test of deer processing plants that most if not all would have the CWD prion on their grounds. I would guess the same for taxidermist. Not a person involved in the laws and regs want to discuss that. There are more deer transported by us hunters across county and state lines than breeders ever thought about moving and none of them are being checked. Do you think that might be a bigger problem?
Sure, valid concern. How many of Texas' confirmed CWD were in breeder pens vs. free range. Knock out the low hanging fruit.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:24 AM   #9
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I can shoot a mule deer that is positive for CWD and take it to XYZ processor in Central Texas and guess what? Good chance said processor has CWD in his facility.
Not saying anything about the bigger argument, but the deer I shoot I don't typically find hanging around processing facilities.
Is the suggestion that processing facilities are a vector for wild deer populations?
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:56 AM   #10
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Some states now make it illegal to transport an "intact" whitetail, including skull must be capped. Deer must be processed. Some states also suggest that an in state Taxi do the work on the deer.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:12 PM   #11
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Not saying anything about the bigger argument, but the deer I shoot I don't typically find hanging around processing facilities.
Is the suggestion that processing facilities are a vector for wild deer populations?
What he is saying is that we as hunters are transporting deer with cwd unknowingly to these places, and in return it could be spread by us doing so. After the deer is deboned all those bones and leftovers go out for scraps and end up somewhere. For me they end up in my pasture. So what he is hinting at is I could very well spread cwd to my place by discarding that on my property. Which is a scary thought....
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:20 PM   #12
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What he is saying is that we as hunters are transporting deer with cwd unknowingly to these places, and in return it could be spread by us doing so. After the deer is deboned all those bones and leftovers go out for scraps and end up somewhere. For me they end up in my pasture. So what he is hinting at is I could very well spread cwd to my place by discarding that on my property. Which is a scary thought....
Not getting it... you take your bones and scraps from your processor back out to your lease/land to dump them?
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:35 PM   #13
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Not getting it... you take your bones and scraps from your processor back out to your lease/land to dump them?
I am the processor of my deer. And I cant say where the bones and scraps from your processor end up, but im sure they end up in a landfill somewhere.

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Old 02-12-2018, 12:36 PM   #14
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Not getting it... you take your bones and scraps from your processor back out to your lease/land to dump them?
Not everyone goes to a processor.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:46 PM   #15
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It is illegal to bring spinal material as well as brain material back into Texas from a state that has cwd so if you are doing this it is illegal. I brought a Mule deer back from Colorado this year and had to cape the buck and skull cap it and make sure that any spinal material was removed before bringing it into Texas. Also had to have it tested in Colorado at a check station within 24 hours of harvest...it tested negative

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Old 02-12-2018, 01:22 PM   #16
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Sure, valid concern. How many of Texas' confirmed CWD were in breeder pens vs. free range. Knock out the low hanging fruit.
How would we know as only breeders are testing. We'll breeders and deer shot in the few counties that require testing.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:24 PM   #17
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Not saying anything about the bigger argument, but the deer I shoot I don't typically find hanging around processing facilities.
Is the suggestion that processing facilities are a vector for wild deer populations?
No but my point I shoot a deer in Medina County I have to get it tested but I still get to take home or to process facility before I know it has CWD. I can then do whatever I want with the carcass. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:34 PM   #18
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How would we know as only breeders are testing. We'll breeders and deer shot in the few counties that require testing.
Not true at all...TPWD is testing free range animals all over the state.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:42 PM   #19
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Not true at all...TPWD is testing free range animals all over the state.
My doe I shot in Van Zandt county got tested.
TPWD Biologist was at the processors when I dropped her off.
I gave her permission to test her.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:06 PM   #20
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It is illegal to bring spinal material as well as brain material back into Texas from a state that has cwd so if you are doing this it is illegal. I brought a Mule deer back from Colorado this year and had to cape the buck and skull cap it and make sure that any spinal material was removed before bringing it into Texas. Also had to have it tested in Colorado at a check station within 24 hours of harvest...it tested negative
Just started this year.
I have been hauling deer and Elk back here for 40 years, I never knew......
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:06 PM   #21
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Guys the test results are not immediately known. So where that animal goes, what truck bed or cooler it sits in, were it is disposed all could and probably have the prion. The prion once out of the animal lives where it lies forever.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:07 PM   #22
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This is not even bringing into debate of the exotics which the state does not control.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:16 PM   #23
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No matter which side of this argument you like, one thing is certain to me. CWD is gonna change deer hunting as we know it in the not-so-distant future. And not for the better.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:20 PM   #24
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This is not even bringing into debate of the exotics which the state does not control.
I didn't even think about that
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:42 PM   #25
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No matter which side of this argument you like, one thing is certain to me. CWD is gonna change deer hunting as we know it in the not-so-distant future. And not for the better.
Thats a fact.

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Old 02-12-2018, 06:06 PM   #26
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No matter which side of this argument you like, one thing is certain to me. CWD is gonna change deer hunting as we know it in the not-so-distant future. And not for the better.
I have been saying as much for a year. I don't think it is as bad as some make it out to be but I do think it changes things dramatically for the worse. I think TPWD, TWA and TDA all have f'd up ideas and views which best suit their own needs and have done very little to actually address the real issue. This should have been and always been about the Whitetail and all sides have made it about their own best interest. Nobody has really taken the deer's best interest to heart.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:21 PM   #27
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Who was blaming it solely breeders alone?
Ignoring the fact that breeders can, have and will transport infected deer all over the state is laughable.
Not on purpose needs to be said in there lol
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:37 PM   #28
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I am the processor of my deer. And I cant say where the bones and scraps from your processor end up, but im sure they end up in a landfill somewhere.

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The deer I shoot donít hang around landfills much either.
I guess Iím missing the pointó I just donít see how the one-way ticket to a processor that deer punch is much of a factor in CWD spread. I get it that not all deer go to processors... not all mine do, but unless youíre harvesting them somewhere, hauling them down the road and then pulling a Fargo and broadcasting the carcasses across swaths of grazing lands, I just donít see a widespread contamination mechanism there.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:50 PM   #29
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The deer I shoot donít hang around landfills much either.
I guess Iím missing the pointó I just donít see how the one-way ticket to a processor that deer punch is much of a factor in CWD spread. I get it that not all deer go to processors... not all mine do, but unless youíre harvesting them somewhere, hauling them down the road and then pulling a Fargo and broadcasting the carcasses across swaths of grazing lands, I just donít see a widespread contamination mechanism there.
Any contamination would be a huge negative for deer on that property. I guess some of you don't understand the prion lives for ever. Bleach, Fire, Time etc DO NOT kill the prion. If a deer dies that has CWD the spot it decays will have CWD prion until the end of time. You shoot a deer that has CWD and throw it in the back of your truck the prion could be in the back of your truck. You put a cooler in the back of your truck and go to your buddy ranch and set your cooler by the fire, you could have have just left CWD by the campfire. I get that is a lot of "what ifs" but it is the reality of CWD.

We are not sure if there are human issues related to CWD yet. If there are how easy is it for a processor's equipment to pass CWD on in the sausage they process? It really is scary what all could change if/when they find out more about what all is involved in CWD.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:58 PM   #30
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Not true at all...TPWD is testing free range animals all over the state.


Bahaha...@ what rate? Comparable to that of breeder deer? More? Less? Equal % of harvest? Before or after logical pushback from the breeding industry?

Might wanna check some historical test #'s before you get a comfort level that TPWD is stewarding anything outside or inside of fences...besides a political agenda that is

As far as exotics...the fire sales have already begun before the inventory #'s are due in April. Good job TAHC....way to decimate species for political CYA gain

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Old 02-12-2018, 08:10 PM   #31
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As far as exotics...the fire sales have already begun before the inventory #'s are due in April. Good job TAHC....way to decimate species for political CYA gain
And what about the free range exotics.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:14 PM   #32
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Same....TAHC rules apply to all susceptible species, fence height is irrelevant...but hey...that's progress when compared to the TPWD agenda now isn't it!

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Old 02-12-2018, 08:15 PM   #33
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And what about the free range exotics.
Please stop bringing up all these logical and clearly present & factual elements. All blame and responsibility must reside on the shoulders of deer breeders.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:16 PM   #34
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I guess some of you don't understand the prion lives for ever.
Condescension counterproductive. If you had a point it got lost in your smugness.
Moving on... SMH
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:27 PM   #35
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The deer I shoot donít hang around landfills much either.
I guess Iím missing the pointó I just donít see how the one-way ticket to a processor that deer punch is much of a factor in CWD spread. I get it that not all deer go to processors... not all mine do, but unless youíre harvesting them somewhere, hauling them down the road and then pulling a Fargo and broadcasting the carcasses across swaths of grazing lands, I just donít see a widespread contamination mechanism there.
Youre missing the small point that it can and will be spread by the carcass being transported. The spread of this is the discussion, not whether you currently hunt around an affected area. Give it long enough and you likely will hunt around an affected area. Even if its not by a landfill/processor/taxidermist, etc.

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Old 02-12-2018, 08:28 PM   #36
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Condescension counterproductive. If you had a point it got lost in your smugness.
Moving on... SMH
Fair enough statement. It wasn't meant to smug. I was shocked some didn't know or understand you can't wash, burn, etc the CWD away. I probably should have worded it better. You said you were missing the point so I tried to make it blunt. I guess you still missed it and I hurt your feelings doing so. It was not my intention and I sincerely apologize.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:28 PM   #37
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The average, "out of the loop hunter", has no idea how stupid this is about to get... Many of the comments that I regularly see on here concerning this topic make that perfectly clear..

Infectious diseases have always been a part of the wild and always will be... In the wild diseases take out the weak. In the wild healthy animals avoid the sick or the sick wander away from the herd to die.. Once you confine them its a totally different ball game.. Rocket science it is not..This CWD epidemic was largely created.. Anyone with half a brain could see the coming years ago. Transporting deer should have never ever been allowed.. The people in the know knew the risks. They rolled the dice, took a gamble for the sake of $$ and now here we are..

The deer hunting community now has a MASSSIVE problem.. Many of us had no say so in the decision being made for us.. Now we will ALL just have to deal with it.. We will now Sit back and watch this train wreck unfold.. It will get much more complicated..

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Old 02-12-2018, 08:34 PM   #38
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The deer hunting community had a massive problem the moment TWPD decided to politicize science & succeeded to a point....so yes they shoulder some of the blame...the "deer hunting community" shoulders some as well....i've said it many times...why the general hunting public is & has not been outraged with TPWD & their "stewardship" is beyond me...no need beating a dead horse now...more fences,less opportunity is on the horizon...think lease prices are high now...wait 7-10 yrs

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Old 02-13-2018, 09:56 AM   #39
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Youre missing the small point that it can and will be spread by the carcass being transported. The spread of this is the discussion, not whether you currently hunt around an affected area. Give it long enough and you likely will hunt around an affected area. Even if its not by a landfill/processor/taxidermist, etc.
My contribution to the dialogue was that it's hard for me to see a strong vector there. Now we've got people saying stuff like, "what about exotics" when we don't even know which, if any, exotic species are affected.
There's a shortage of facts and reasonable dialogue on both sides of this argument.

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Fair enough statement. It wasn't meant to smug. I was shocked some didn't know or understand you can't wash, burn, etc the CWD away. I probably should have worded it better. You said you were missing the point so I tried to make it blunt. I guess you still missed it and I hurt your feelings doing so. It was not my intention and I sincerely apologize.
lol... no worries. My feelings aren't hurt, but thanks for your concern.
Telling people they don't understand and accusing them of getting their feelings hurt is shooting yourself in the foot if what you think is that more productive dialogue around this issue is part of a solution. Misinformation I would categorize the same way.
It would appear that God has created the first thing of this earth that is eternal in the prion protein by reading some of these (including your) posts. It is more difficult, but prions are protein, and, like anything else, can be destroyed.
To wit:
Cleaning, disinfection and sterilization of surface prion contamination.
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FINDINGS:
Traditional chemical methods of surface decontamination against prions were confirmed to be effective, but extended steam sterilization was more variable. Steam sterilization alone reduced the risk of prion contamination under normal or extended exposure conditions, but did show significant variation. Thermal disinfection had no impact in these studies. Cleaning with certain defined formulations in combination with steam sterilization can be an effective prion decontamination process, in particular with alkaline formulations. Low-temperature, gaseous hydrogen peroxide sterilization was also confirmed to reduce infectivity in the presence and absence of cleaning.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:20 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by ttaxidermy View Post
The average, "out of the loop hunter", has no idea how stupid this is about to get... Many of the comments that I regularly see on here concerning this topic make that perfectly clear..

Infectious diseases have always been a part of the wild and always will be... In the wild diseases take out the weak. In the wild healthy animals avoid the sick or the sick wander away from the herd to die.. Once you confine them its a totally different ball game.. Rocket science it is not..This CWD epidemic was largely created.. Anyone with half a brain could see the coming years ago. Transporting deer should have never ever been allowed.. The people in the know knew the risks. They rolled the dice, took a gamble for the sake of $$ and now here we are..

The deer hunting community now has a MASSSIVE problem.. Many of us had no say so in the decision being made for us.. Now we will ALL just have to deal with it.. We will now Sit back and watch this train wreck unfold.. It will get much more complicated..
Are you pointing the finger at TPWD for allowing this to happen?

Ultimately it was their decision, with the breeding industry fanning the flames with $100 bills.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:37 AM   #41
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My contribution to the dialogue was that it's hard for me to see a strong vector there. Now we've got people saying stuff like, "what about exotics" when we don't even know which, if any, exotic species are affected.
There's a shortage of facts and reasonable dialogue on both sides of this argument.
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I've been saying that exact statement in this thread and for over two years now. As far as exotics go we do know CWD is carried by elk, red deer, sika, but does not to appear to affect axis. Yes there is still a ton of information to learn as far as exotics go. I appreciate the link on removing prions. I've discussed CWD with a few of the people doing research for the State and the have told me multiple times it is nearly impossible to remove. Possibly they were referring to cost and also not a feasible way to remove it from the soil. The point I was making earlier was it easily moved around the State by many means including transportation of deer, carcass, vehicle etc. My point all along has been the State thinking they were going to stop CWD by requiring testing on transported deer was a fallacy. Is it a step in the right direction yes. Have they taken another step in the right direction? No. They seem content in what they have done so far.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:59 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
does not to appear to affect axis.
God, I love axis deer.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:07 PM   #43
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I have a question for you hill country folks.
On the place I sold I was required to test 3 red deer or sika.
Cost me $500.00

They told me any one who had any Elk, Red deer or Sika killed on their land had to test 3 or they would be fined.

How many hill country land owners even know about this new law?


Free range is the same as high fence
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:32 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Buff View Post
I have a question for you hill country folks.
On the place I sold I was required to test 3 red deer or sika.
Cost me $500.00

They told me any one who had any Elk, Red deer or Sika killed on their land had to test 3 or they would be fined.

How many hill country land owners even know about this new law?


Free range is the same as high fence
I am not sure how many know but my guess is very few. How could they force someone to test something that that don't own? I have to be honest I didn't even know. I hunt low and high fence in the hill country and neither land owner has told us testing needed to be done. We have elk on both places but haven't shot one in 3 plus years.
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Old 02-13-2018, 12:40 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Take Dead Aim View Post
I am not sure how many know but my guess is very few. How could they force someone to test something that that don't own? I have to be honest I didn't even know. I hunt low and high fence in the hill country and neither land owner has told us testing needed to be done. We have elk on both places but haven't shot one in 3 plus years.

It was not Parks and wildlife it was Texas animal health that contacted me.

I don't see how they can enforce it but that is what they told me and then sent me a letter .
I had to have the reports turned in by April 15th
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:07 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff View Post
I have a question for you hill country folks.
On the place I sold I was required to test 3 red deer or sika.
Cost me $500.00

They told me any one who had any Elk, Red deer or Sika killed on their land had to test 3 or they would be fined.

How many hill country land owners even know about this new law?


Free range is the same as high fence


"They" told several folks that...unfortunately for the landowner/s, "they" didn't know or chose to ignore (not sure which) the law "they" were chartered to enforce & landowners didn't either. If i had been one of'm, i'd own a helluva lot more country than I currently do.

Even now, some landowners are still under that assumption...

now...knowing the confusion the "proposed" rules vs. the "final" rules adopted caused....wonder why TAHC hasn't socialized the final rules more? Things that make ya go hhhhmmmm....

Last edited by RodinaRanč; 02-13-2018 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:27 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Traildust View Post
Are you pointing the finger at TPWD for allowing this to happen?

Ultimately it was their decision, with the breeding industry fanning the flames with $100 bills.
I'm saying everyone involved.. They all knew the risks and now we all do..
Are deer still being transported??? Why??? If it's really as bad as they say and is spreading at such a rapid pace why would this still be allowed? It's interesting..

And yea concerning those $100 bills... When something doesn't make sense, always follow the money.. Same goes for Buff's situation above... That makes absolutely no sense!!!!! Ive never heard of that one.. Sounds like a back door animal tax to me..


https://apps.tpwd.state.tx.us/privat...er.seam?cid=28

Last edited by ttaxidermy; 02-13-2018 at 01:36 PM..
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:02 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ttaxidermy View Post
Sounds like a back door animal tax to me..

Bingo! Why do you think the tahc proposed rules stated "must kill 3" & the final rules state "3 eligible mortalities"?

Think it may have something to do with exotics being classified by statute as "livestock" & therefore fall under the same USDA reimbursement rules as catte, sheep, horses?? Hmmmmmm....

So the state weaseled out of reimbursement liability...who ya think is gunna absorb the testing overheard, the state, landowner? Or will it perhaps be the consumer?

As far as rapid spread? How the hell would TPWD or TAHC know? They don't have a sample size great enough to make ANY determination

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Old 02-13-2018, 02:12 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ttaxidermy View Post
I'm saying everyone involved.. They all knew the risks and now we all do..
Are deer still being transported??? Why??? If it's really as bad as they say and is spreading at such a rapid pace why would this still be allowed? It's interesting..

And yea concerning those $100 bills... When something doesn't make sense, always follow the money.. Same goes for Buff's situation above... That makes absolutely no sense!!!!! Ive never heard of that one.. Sounds like a back door animal tax to me..


https://apps.tpwd.state.tx.us/privat...er.seam?cid=28
Buff may have donated to the Nigerian Prince Relief Fund. Never heard of those folks.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:13 PM   #50
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Na...he just inadvertently/unknowing supported their agenda...not his his fault.

Barton @ TAHC "encouraged" me to do the same in 2016....i told'm it's hard enough to survive w/o introducing non value added overhead into the mix....go get bent

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