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    #46
    Originally posted by RiverRat1 View Post
    In fairy tale land there is no limit. In real life there is. If you're child (or mine) is worth 10 million then every child is worth 10 mil. There's simply not that much money out there.
    Most people would die for their family. Put you can put a value on life. There's statistical data in each Country that has this value. Google it.

    If you can't be at least a little logical for this portion of this discussion I'll bow out.

    As for schools wasting money..I've said that for years so I agree 100%. I have plenty of posts on here complaining about school waste and scams.

    As mentioned before if you think just telling the schools the kids need to be safer will solve the problem IMO you're mistaken. Schools seem to never made good decisions with money or anything really. What is it you want schools to do exactly?
    I love high school sports just as much as the next guy. I think a healthy sports program is beneficial to the students and it brings money into the districts. I thoroughly understand and agree that everything needs to be factored into the equation when doing a risk assessment. My point of this thread was not to debate the worth of high school sports, or the value of my child or anyone else. The purpose was to wake people up so they don't have to go thru what I just went thru. I thought I was being a little logical. I hope and pray that the parents this happens to next, can find a little logic.
    Last edited by Hoggslayer; 07-12-2018, 08:31 AM.

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      #47
      Originally posted by Playa View Post
      Under Texas law local districts can vote on bonds for athletics, but cannot vote on a bond for improving security, specifically if those funds would pay a person such as a security officer.

      We have to keep things a level playing field per school finance laws, except athletics.The logic is the state controls funding of basic needs so no school or district has disproportionate funds, more simply so wealthy areas do not have an advantage over low income districts.
      You want things to change, that is where it needs to happen. Districts should have the latitude to fund security and non-educator staffing for security purposes
      So those things that get funded separate (athletics, other UIL stuff) thru bonds need to be tied to a Safety Audit. If your score is below the mark, a portion of your bond money goes into a state fund to be evenly distributed. I can guarantee, when tax payers see their money going out of the district because school administrators aren't following certain safety protocols; stuff will change really fast. I think that's pretty logical.

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        #48
        It's kinda sad this suject isn't getting more attention. I'm praying no one else has to go through a school shooting. You cannot even fathom what comes with one of these tragedies. No one is equipped to handle this stuff. It affects you in ways you can't even imagine. Only by the grace of God am I able to move forward each day.

        Hoggslayer

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          #49
          Hoggslayer,

          I thought about you yesterday. They are building a new middle school down the road from my house. During construction they had an 8' privacy fence all the way around the school. Well yesterday I noticed they were removing it as the school is almost done and the permanent fence was 3 or 4 ft tall. Odd to me they protect it more when it is just protecting the construction assets/materials, but less protected when full of kids.

          Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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            #50
            Just one of the oddities of the world we live in. I find it really odd how little attention this subject is getting and how some people want to debate the value of a child. People now a days get bent out of shape more about a dog than they do a human being.

            Hoggslayer

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              #51
              Originally posted by Sticks&Strings View Post
              Hoggslayer,

              I thought about you yesterday. They are building a new middle school down the road from my house. During construction they had an 8' privacy fence all the way around the school. Well yesterday I noticed they were removing it as the school is almost done and the permanent fence was 3 or 4 ft tall. Odd to me they protect it more when it is just protecting the construction assets/materials, but less protected when full of kids.

              Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
              Fencing has about zero percent to do with protection. Anyone can drive up, park, and walk in the front door because it's public.

              Don't worry though because schools are going the way of airports trying to cover their rears. They will be doing all sorts of stupid, time and money wasting ID checks, sign ins, bullet proof glass at the front office etc.. in order to look like they are protecting kids.

              And to skip ahead and answer the next question. No, I don't think those things would stop any shooter. Just like all the airport checking, double checking, triple checking, frisking grandma, not allowing shampoo in bags etc is going to stop a terrorist from shooting people at an airport.

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                #52
                Tim when was the last terrorist shooting at an airport in the US? All these measures will help and stop someone. Kinda like putting a cable on a Yeti in the bed of your truck. It will stop a percentage of thieves from stealing it

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by glen View Post
                  Tim when was the last terrorist shooting at an airport in the US? All these measures will help and stop someone. Kinda like putting a cable on a Yeti in the bed of your truck. It will stop a percentage of thieves from stealing it
                  yup .. i dont understand the attitudes that are like "im not carry my gun because it only holds 7 bullets, and there might be 8 attackers.".

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                    #54
                    I would hate to be the guy that knocked the idea that would protect just one child.

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                      #55
                      TTT

                      Hoggslayer

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                        #56
                        Originally posted by RiverRat1 View Post
                        We should all agree we already pay too much in taxes to the ISD's

                        The public needs to demand they reform schools and stop wasting or stealing money and spend it wiser.

                        Personally I don't think spending millions or billions at schools will make the kids any safer. Shooters will find the loophole. And beside that there's not much evidence that shootings have increased per capita. It just feels that way because the media blows everything up instantly no matter where in the world it happens.

                        I will agree that if/when money is spent on safety it should come from athletics or money squandered elsewhere. Definitely not from new bonds or raised taxes. We don't need to be like the liberals that always say "it's about the children" I mean it is but there is (wether you like it or not) a limit/value on life.
                        Unfortunately and getting away from emotions, you are correct.

                        According to the version that I read of the Santa Fe shooting, at least 3 officers on scene confronted the shooter or engaged him in gunfire. Several other officers arrived within four minutes.

                        Columbine which started it all, an officer on campus engaged Klebold and Harris in gunfire soon after it started.

                        Virginia Tech had an entire police force on campus in what was the deadliest school shooting with 32 victims.

                        Douglas High School in FL this year, officers on scene ... although the officer that might have been able to engage the shooter failed to enter the school.

                        It is virtually impossible to stop a determined attacker with time on his side.

                        Unless a shooter is stopped before the point of attack with some kind of intervention lije a tip or psychiatric, all that can be done is to lessen the casualties, in my opinion. Having officers on scene including at VT with their own PD didn’t deter any of these mass casualty shootings.

                        At Sandy Hook the doors were locked.... so the shooter started by shooting the glass and entered anyway.

                        I am not saying to not prepare. Cops on campus and locked doors won’t stop a shooter however and get ready if there is more than one like at Columbine or Westside Middle School in Arkansas where an 11 year old and 13 year old shot 15 people...... as they were leaving the school, killing 5.

                        I am not sure how playing on natural grass and watching from aluminum bleacher seats would have stopped any of those attacks.

                        I am going to an active shooter training day in a couple of weeks and I think it will be my fourth such training. I will be at a high school with 2-3 officers always on campus. Be that as it may, I fully expect to respond to the school which has a safety plan and officers on scene. Why? Because all of our preparations won’t stop a dedicated attacker.

                        Train, fortify doors, have officers on campus, arm teachers, drill teachers in their response and so on. I am all for it. Changing lifestyles and going to less sporting events won’t change anything.

                        Again, in my opinion.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by tvc184 View Post
                          Unfortunately and getting away from emotions, you are correct.

                          According to the version that I read of the Santa Fe shooting, at least 3 officers on scene confronted the shooter or engaged him in gunfire. Several other officers arrived within four minutes.

                          Columbine which started it all, an officer on campus engaged Klebold and Harris in gunfire soon after it started.

                          Virginia Tech had an entire police force on campus in what was the deadliest school shooting with 32 victims.

                          Douglas High School in FL this year, officers on scene ... although the officer that might have been able to engage the shooter failed to enter the school.

                          It is virtually impossible to stop a determined attacker with time on his side.

                          Unless a shooter is stopped before the point of attack with some kind of intervention lije a tip or psychiatric, all that can be done is to lessen the casualties, in my opinion. Having officers on scene including at VT with their own PD didn’t deter any of these mass casualty shootings.

                          At Sandy Hook the doors were locked.... so the shooter started by shooting the glass and entered anyway.

                          I am not saying to not prepare. Cops on campus and locked doors won’t stop a shooter however and get ready if there is more than one like at Columbine or Westside Middle School in Arkansas where an 11 year old and 13 year old shot 15 people...... as they were leaving the school, killing 5.

                          I am not sure how playing on natural grass and watching from aluminum bleacher seats would have stopped any of those attacks.

                          I am going to an active shooter training day in a couple of weeks and I think it will be my fourth such training. I will be at a high school with 2-3 officers always on campus. Be that as it may, I fully expect to respond to the school which has a safety plan and officers on scene. Why? Because all of our preparations won’t stop a dedicated attacker.

                          Train, fortify doors, have officers on campus, arm teachers, drill teachers in their response and so on. I am all for it. Changing lifestyles and going to less sporting events won’t change anything.

                          Again, in my opinion.
                          My point in starting this thread was to get people to think about it and ask themselves, what if this happend to my child. I purposely tried to play on their emotions. Not to get anyone to think irrationally but to get them to honestly ask the question; what if it happened to me. I also never said playing less Sports would stop any future school shootings. I use that as an example of how to finance and force change on a society that doesn't want to. It was merely a consequence of not complying to a standard. That is short of the very principle most laws are enforced with anyway such as our traffic laws. If you run a stop sign,you pay a fine. Before too long you learn that non-compliance is expensive and you wind up police yourself. It was merely an idea on steps we can take to move forward to better secure our schools. I never claimed it was the be-all-end-all to evil in this world. I'm not really trying to debate this just wanted to clear up the points I was trying to make. No need to play Devil's Advocate. If you think you are prepared then so be it.

                          Hoggslayer

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by RiverRat1 View Post
                            Fencing has about zero percent to do with protection. Anyone can drive up, park, and walk in the front door because it's public.

                            Don't worry though because schools are going the way of airports trying to cover their rears. They will be doing all sorts of stupid, time and money wasting ID checks, sign ins, bullet proof glass at the front office etc.. in order to look like they are protecting kids.

                            And to skip ahead and answer the next question. No, I don't think those things would stop any shooter. Just like all the airport checking, double checking, triple checking, frisking grandma, not allowing shampoo in bags etc is going to stop a terrorist from shooting people at an airport.
                            Well you have officially showed ignorance in this department. I hate all that at the airport too, but if it keeps my plane from blowing up, I'll happily do it. If a fence limited the points of entry, that could now be monitored with fewer armed policemen, I'm all for it. Do you have kids?
                            We put fences around everything we want to keep people out of, and for the most part, they work, but wont work at a school?

                            Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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                              #59
                              My brother (masters from MIT) has been in Germany the past several weeks working with nanotechnology that they are designing specifically for campus security...it takes “Big Brother is watching” to a whole other level but would be an incredible tool if they can make it affordable. I don’t know a ton of the details at this point in time but I do know some very, very smart people are working very hard to help this epidemic we have found ourselves in.

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                                #60
                                Yeh.. funny.. if perimeter fences and security are not an effective measure, explain what exactly the basic fundamental design of a prison is.

                                He just likes playing a consummate devils advocate 100% of the time to every ****ing topic .. he cant really be this ****in inept at rational thought...

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