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Old 09-18-2014, 12:06 PM   #51
louieagarcia
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
The founder of our company, Edward Jones, used to say, "make hay while the sun is shining...but ALWAYS put some in the barn for rainy days."
...some words of wisdom
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:14 PM   #52
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I remember. My daddy was an oilfield superintendent. I was only 10 years old or so. It went from feast to famine!!! That why I don't hardly finance crap. Except just enough for my credit score.
I was a mud logger and we had a meeting in Houston at a hotel. One of the oil men that met us there was telling me he had been a millionaire 3 times, he was working on the 4th time. 6 months later it collapsed. I wonder if he made it.

Last edited by Rotney; 09-18-2014 at 12:19 PM..
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:14 PM   #53
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Anybody remember Houston in the Late 80's. You could buy a 3 bedroom brick home for under $20K... I'm not talking about a old run down home, I'm talking about a 5 year old house of less. I remember buying a 19' Bass boat with 200 merc for less than a grand. It was crazy.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:25 PM   #54
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I just don' see how any one with a family of 5 can survive on less than 100K family income with current price of living.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:34 PM   #55
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I figured this out 30+ years ago and started putting 10% of my salary in the bank/market and haven't missed a month since--plus I've doubled up some months. That is the precise reason I only work enough today to pay hunting and fishing habits and the taxes on the house. If I go tomorrow, my military retirement goes too, but I've provided for the wife, and that gives me peace about not working.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:35 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Budman68 View Post
Anybody remember Houston in the Late 80's. You could buy a 3 bedroom brick home for under $20K... I'm not talking about a old run down home, I'm talking about a 5 year old house of less. I remember buying a 19' Bass boat with 200 merc for less than a grand. It was crazy.
Yes I remember and this statement is very true, even thought hard to believe I am sure.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:37 PM   #57
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Which church? The wife and I have talked about attending but havent found one on the nights we're free.
Parker County Cowboy Church in Aledo.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:42 PM   #58
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May be good for some but I'll take a hard pass on the Ramsey stuff
I didn't say mandatory adoption of his practices. But it does serve the purpose of taking ones head out of their butt in regards to money. People shoot holes in a lot of his stuff, but I believe if people would adopt a lot of his ideas this world would be a better place. It isn't for everyone but there are parts of it that everyone should practice.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:42 PM   #59
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Very good advice.

You forgot the part about many of them being contract labor and not having taxes withheld. Come April 15 they have spent every penny they have earned and are shocked to know they have to pay taxes on that money since they weren't having taxes withheld like W-2 workers....
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:51 PM   #60
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I didn't say mandatory adoption of his practices. But it does serve the purpose of taking ones head out of their butt in regards to money. People shoot holes in a lot of his stuff, but I believe if people would adopt a lot of his ideas this world would be a better place. It isn't for everyone but there are parts of it that everyone should practice.
I agree parts of it should be practiced by everyone but the sad part is that's the stuff that should be common sense. Of course my mistakes also made me smarter.
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:58 PM   #61
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HMMMMMM

Hard to challenge what works and is recommended daily by wealth managers
It is recommended by SOME and it does work for many people in certain situations. If its a good fit for you go for it but its not for me. The way I'm setup I can have fun, toys, and some debt while still saving and investing plenty for my later years.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:01 PM   #62
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Agreed. Ramsey bores me to tears with the obviousness of his financial advice. Teach me how to get leveraged up like those Wall Street bankers and get bailed out when I place losing bets.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:08 PM   #63
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Agreed. Ramsey bores me to tears with the obviousness of his financial advice. Teach me how to get leveraged up like those Wall Street bankers and get bailed out when I place losing bets.

All I can say about it Landrover turned me on too it several years ago and now I have a minimum amount of bills.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:12 PM   #64
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Start this thread again in about 30 years....for now, its all good and going nowhere.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:29 PM   #65
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Start this thread again in about 30 years....for now, its all good and going nowhere.
I remember that thinking in '06 and '07


Most that have been around know all of this. I was just giving a little reminder to the new guys who suddenly make more than ever and may think it lasts forever.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:35 PM   #66
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I remember that thinking in '06 and '07


Most that have been around know all of this. I was just giving a little reminder to the new guys who suddenly make more than ever and may think it lasts forever.


I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....

Last edited by RLB; 09-18-2014 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:38 PM   #67
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Awesome advice. I often think the same thing when I see the $60K trucks rolling down I-10, being driving by a kid half my age. I just hope they are saving because they will need it.

I went to college with a number of older students who left the oilfields in the mid-80's, and they would say the exact same thing. The guys who were in college were the ones who saved enough to pay for it (and housing) when the work dropped off. They also made some of the best students.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:39 PM   #68
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Speculation will never let the crash happen again....
It's not the technology or management that will cause the next crash, it will be politics.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:39 PM   #69
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I understand that, but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.



That was then.....

I think you seriously underestimate the power of Wall Street.

If oil tanks to less that $40 a barrel again, it will grind to a screeching halt.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:45 PM   #70
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I think you seriously underestimate the power of Wall Street.

If oil tanks to less that $40 a barrel again, it will grind to a screeching halt.
Worked in both places......we'll agree to disagree.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:54 PM   #71
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I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....
Those contracts will go out the window when oil drops just like they did the last time. The company I was working for back then was still building rigs at the time and we were on 5-6yr contracts yet we stopped.

If oil drops down to the 40s or lower again it WILL stop or be so slow you think it stopped. Just because they can get the oil doesn't mean they will keep going after it. It makes much more sense to wait until prices are high again.
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:00 PM   #72
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Those contracts will go out the window when oil drops just like they did the last time. The company I was working for back then was still building rigs at the time and we were on 5-6yr contracts yet we stopped.

If oil drops down to the 40s or lower again it WILL stop or be so slow you think it stopped. Just because they can get the oil doesn't mean they will keep going after it. It makes much more sense to wait until prices are high again.
Rig Contracts dont go out the window!! Those are iron clad guaranteed deals.....at $24-$28K per day for 24-48 months
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:02 PM   #73
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Yep here today laying off hands tommorrow. We had a guaranteed contract with Conoco Phillips 6 years ago. When it got slow they just payed out the contract to the company I worked for. The rest of the crew got the boot. Except pushers, we got bumped back to drillers pay and company trucks taken away. That's when I decided to leave land.

The company I worked for bragged on not laying off hands during a slow period. I saw they were lying and quick to lay off hands. I went from laying off all the roughnecks in three days to laying off my driller and Derrick hand at the end of their hitch. Not a easy thing to do, especially when you have worked with these guys for years.
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:02 PM   #74
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Rig Contracts dont go out the window!! Those are iron clad guaranteed deals.....at $24-$28K per day for 24-48 months
Now I'm curious what exactly do you do?

I'm fully aware of the money involved but I have also personally witnessed those "guaranteed" contracts disappear whether they paid penalties or not I have no idea but there was no drilling going on.
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:11 PM   #75
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Now I'm curious what exactly do you do?

I'm fully aware of the money involved but I have also personally witnessed those "guaranteed" contracts disappear whether they paid penalties or not I have no idea but there was no drilling going on.
Rig and Directional sales for a "BIG 3"....we have 474 rigs currently drilling in the US and Canada....could have another 100 if we had them. The demand is SO HIGH right now, these contracts are 100% unilateral in our favor. Operators will sell their soul to the devil for them.....can't drill without a rig, no rig no money....When every 100 feet of lateral is worth $1M in production and average laterals are 3,500-5,500'...you do the math. We've settled several broken contract disputes and was awarded 100%, plus attorneys fee and any damages incurred....
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:21 PM   #76
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Rig and Directional sales for a "BIG 3"....we have 474 rigs currently drilling in the US and Canada....could have another 100 if we had them. The demand is SO HIGH right now, these contracts are 100% unilateral in our favor. Operators will sell their soul to the devil for them.....can't drill without a rig, no rig no money....When every 100 feet of lateral is worth $1M in production and average laterals are 3,500-5,500'...you do the math. We've settled several broken contract disputes and was awarded 100%, plus attorneys fee and any damages incurred....
Ok I was just curious. Do you not remember '08 and broken contracts though? It happened all over and was busy like it is now.

Oh and those are baby laterals but I miss them compared to the 7000-8000' laterals I'm on now.
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:12 PM   #77
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Ok I was just curious. Do you not remember '08 and broken contracts though? It happened all over and was busy like it is now.



Oh and those are baby laterals but I miss them compared to the 7000-8000' laterals I'm on now.

I remember 08. At the beginning of every week for about 6/7 in a row my boss would give me a heads up that Friday may be my last day for awhile till we picked up more work. 30-40 a week n that's it. Then the good Ol Lonestar State started breakin out of the funk the rest of the country again cuz hey, it is Texas. Next thing I knew I was begging for a day off!!!


And that job there was an 8 Billion, yes I said billion, and the Saudi's snatched those contracts in one day. I mean at lunch me and one of my Superintendents where at Academy looking for him a new shotgun. We had 77 more employees on the way to show up the next day. By 2pm the 77 were canceled and we had to lay of 372 people. Those numbers stick im my head to this day. Taught me to be smarter about my toys and living up to the $$$ I was making. Now I live a lifestyle about 50% of what I actually could. Just in case.

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Old 09-18-2014, 04:20 PM   #78
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I remember 08. At the beginning of every week for about 6/7 in a row my boss would give me a heads up that Friday may be my last day for awhile till we picked up more work. 30-40 a week n that's it. Then the good Ol Lonestar State started breakin out of the funk the rest of the country again cuz hey, it is Texas. Next thing I knew I was begging for a day off!!!


And that job there was an 8 Billion, yes I said billion, and the Saudi's snatched those contracts in one day. I mean at lunch me and one of my Superintendents where at Academy looking for him a new shotgun. We had 77 more employees on the way to show up the next day. By 2pm the 77 were canceled and we had to lay of 372 people. Those numbers stick im my head to this day. Taught me to be smarter about my toys and living up to the $$$ I was making. Now I live a lifestyle about 50% of what I actually could. Just in case.
Heck I'm that way now 30+ day wells suck for a DD

We finally talked them into giving us a 14/7 rotation and I start my week off next Thursday. That timing may or may not have been on purpose but either way I'll be off opening weekend
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:43 PM   #79
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Heck I'm that way now 30+ day wells suck for a DD



We finally talked them into giving us a 14/7 rotation and I start my week off next Thursday. That timing may or may not have been on purpose but either way I'll be off opening weekend

Lmao!!! What part of the world they got you in now?
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:46 PM   #80
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Yep, guys coming in for a shutdown can't understand how I can live on 40hrs a week with a few 50-60hr weeks thrown in.

I just grin and say if you "gotta" have 84hr weeks too live, you aint really living at all

I'm my own worse enemy but luckily I know how too trick myself into saving
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:47 PM   #81
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I just don' see how any one with a family of 5 can survive on less than 100K family income with current price of living.
Really??? That is the majority of everyone in this country. It is not a requirement to have a $300K mortgage, $80K in vehicle notes, and thousands more on wasted toys.

All really depends on wants vs. needs.
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:50 PM   #82
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Rig Contracts dont go out the window!! Those are iron clad guaranteed deals.....at $24-$28K per day for 24-48 months
I think you are not working in the contract department....every contract has numerous ways to come to an end....I am on year 25 in the oilfield and have been responsible for the execution of contracts around the world....when oil price drops they will stack rigs like cord wood. This is not debatable....hang around long enough....I hope it is good for a long time as I am selling equipment myself now!
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:53 PM   #83
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I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....

Quoted for crow pie. 20 years in the patch and believe it or not. Those 1000 well packages and 100 new rig build contracts will go by the way side when the margins get to small. It will be just like turning a tap.
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:54 PM   #84
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Lmao!!! What part of the world they got you in now?
Sitting on a rig 1 mile outside of Shiner right now
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:55 PM   #85
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Really??? That is the majority of everyone in this country. It is not a requirement to have a $300K mortgage, $80K in vehicle notes, and thousands more on wasted toys.



All really depends on wants vs. needs.

I gotta agree with em. Simply based on the cost of living. With exception of a custom recurve I really have no toys. But gas, groceries and the kids in there dance, football, baseball, a modest mortgage, other companies even try to recruit me and it's not $170K plus we ain't got nuthin to talk about.

And as far as the rest of the people in this country. I came from nothin, nada, zip. No vehicles were bought for me in high school. Hay fields payed for my old junky truck. No money for college or none of that. I just refuse to quit stickin my nose to the grindstone. And I am faaaar from stopping grindin my nose.

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Old 09-18-2014, 04:59 PM   #86
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be saving some money!!

I am starting to see lots of the same really bad habits that left lots of guys in trouble the last time the work died off. I understand the toys and trucks thing and thats all fine and good if you have some good savings accumulated. I would hate to see some of you guys get in a big bind should the work be gone soon. I know many of you may hear "we have 10 years of work around here" because that is a common phrase but the fact is if oil ever drops so will the work. Just because the work is there doesn't mean it's worth going after to all the companies.

I give this reminder because I personally know of a couple guys with 100k+ salaries that have to finance furniture or TVs and even one that makes over 300k that never has a dime in his pocket.

Have fun but be careful fellas.
Remember those paid hunts are not cheap either...
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:59 PM   #87
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I think you are not working in the contract department....every contract has numerous ways to come to an end....I am on year 25 in the oilfield and have been responsible for the execution of contracts around the world....when oil price drops they will stack rigs like cord wood. This is not debatable....hang around long enough....I hope it is good for a long time as I am selling equipment myself now!
I figured as much from what I have seen them do but I have never seen the actual wording in these contracts. I just know it can be gone quick
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:02 PM   #88
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Remember those paid hunts are not cheap either...
Some things you just gotta do
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:04 PM   #89
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I just don' see how any one with a family of 5 can survive on less than 100K family income with current price of living.
I couldn't do it now but before my current lifestyle I could find a way to make it work. It wouldn't be anywhere near what I consider comfortable though. Thats why I TRY to keep it in my pants and keep us at a family of 3

More to go around that way
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:06 PM   #90
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When I started in the oilfield oil was $3.65 a barrel, so I've seen a bust or two. It will happen again and each time the industry loses valuable people knowledge wise that will never come back to it. This makes it tough to crank up again when good times come back.

Last bust local banks were giving away with the opening of $1000.00 savings accounts free toasters or a drilling rig. Toasters lasted 2 days, rigs several months.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:07 PM   #91
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I couldn't do it now but before my current lifestyle I could find a way to make it work. It wouldn't be anywhere near what I consider comfortable though. Thats why I TRY to keep it in my pants and keep us at a family of 3



More to go around that way

Between me and Heather we have 6 kids. 5 girls!!!! The only jewels around are me, Grayson and Hooey Our German Shorthair Pointer. We are sooo outnumbered!!!!
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:09 PM   #92
bphillips
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Between me and Heather we have 6 kids. 5 girls!!!! The only jewels around are me, Grayson and Hooey Our German Shorthair Pointer. We are sooo outnumbered!!!!
Good lord potna that sounds down right scary to me
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:23 PM   #93
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Good lord potna that sounds down right scary to me

It can be. I ain't scared of jack **** in this world!!!! Except Heather n my Daddy. You wanna see me catch a case of Get Right?! Let one of them 2 show up!!!! And Heather is only 5'3". I'm not scared of her, I'm terrified!!!!
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:26 PM   #94
bphillips
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It can be. I ain't scared of jack **** in this world!!!! Except Heather n my Daddy. You wanna see me catch a case of Get Right?! Let one of them 2 show up!!!! And Heather is only 5'3". I'm not scared of her, I'm terrified!!!!
I tell mine all the time I ain't scared of her when I see her coming it's when I'm sleeping or my back is turned cause I know she's crazy
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:30 PM   #95
Avezorak
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I just don' see how any one with a family of 5 can survive on less than 100K family income with current price of living.

It aint hard. Just dont drive 2 brand new cars and eat out every day.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:35 PM   #96
Rotney
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Back in the 80's crash if you needed a landman or geologist all you had to do is say "Waiter"
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:59 PM   #97
M16
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Rig Contracts dont go out the window!! Those are iron clad guaranteed deals
Really? Good luck with that thought process. My experience has been that a contract is only as good as the people signing it. Ever seen the legal system in action? Nobody wins but the lawyers.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:14 PM   #98
Mex. Bowhunter
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YEP!!

Some of the guys forget that this will happen also. I went to pumping from roughnecking in '08 and some of our wells were done the same. Waiting on the oil price to come back

Production is a little safer but when cuts come they are across the board
I have a lot of Dead Heads to Cut
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Old 09-18-2014, 08:22 PM   #99
doublearrow
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I just don' see how any one with a family of 5 can survive on less than 100K family income with current price of living.
After taking a ramsey class its been easy to do for us, even in Midland texas with outrageous rent/housing. Before the ramsey class i could/did do it with way less in another town. If we hadnt have taken the class paid off debt i would never even thought of moving to Midland. The class was great for us.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:47 PM   #100
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I understand that, and I wasn't trying to be objective....but theres a HUGE difference between then and now....technology, technolgy, technolgy. We have a very good understanding on where it is and have it down to a science on how to get it....and that only improves daily. We have rigs "SIGNED" on guaranteed contracts and new builds scheduled out for many many years. Speculation will never let the crash happen again....when it does turn it will be a slowing down and not a hault.

That was then.....
The na´vetÚ of your remarks is both chilling and revealing. You obviously were not in the business when it was booming in the late 70's and went FLAT bust in 1982! It was devistating to those who thought the money would never stop rolling in (like you). As a banker who worked for awhile in the loan workout area of the largest bank in Texas at the time with a huge portfolio of drilling rig and other oilfield equipment loans. Companies went from people waiting in line at the Offshore Technology Conference to just order their equipment...to not being able to give it away! I could tell you some sad horror stories about visiting our borrowers
offices/plants/warehouses in Midland/Odessa/Houston and seeing ghost buildings! NOTHING was happening. This went from boom to bust in just weeks!

The OP has some excellent advice, and you young folks would be wise to take heed. I cringe every time I see someone selling some souped up AR 15, Leica binoculars or some other expensive toy because of some small financial hiccup. If you don't have money in the bank (or in investments with your Financial Advisor ), you probably can't afford those high priced luxury items if you have to sell them to raise money for your kid 's braces! Just because you have the cash to pay for them (let alone having to finance them) does not mean you can afford them. That cash might should be put back for making the mortgage or truck payment when that job goes away.

They call me Grumpy .. but I have witnessed it!
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