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Old 12-08-2018, 06:55 PM   #1
Bear Charge
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Default Ilegal 9 point

Just watched my 10yr old son let a ~4 year old walk because he was too close to call. Would've been a trophy in my day.
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:09 PM   #2
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My 7 yo had to pass a few this year and lots of doe that TPWD don’t want us to shoot ... except during the rut. It’s part of it. She got one and the extra work built the excitement. Sucks for kids... but it sucks that we needed he rule to begin with ( and this has zero to do with a trophy mentality, that’s just a byproduct)

And congratulations on making a tough call with a youngster there. That’s tough. I honestly see more illegal bucks killed by youth that legal. I see 10-15 a year and most posted on social media that won’t/don’t get to 13”, never heard of a ticket.
Laws keep honest people honest

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Old 12-08-2018, 07:59 PM   #3
TXHunter12
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In the end we are losing interest with youth and hunting sports in general.
There will be less people hunting in the future.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:05 PM   #4
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So your complaint is that there was no instant gratification and that y’all may have to put in a little more effort??

Sounds like a teachable/learning type of moment to me.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:07 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by TXHunter12 View Post
In the end we are losing interest with youth and hunting sports in general.
There will be less people hunting in the future.
I agree, but it has zero to do with the rules. Has a lot to do with opportunity. The average hunter “dad” doesn’t have a place to hunt anymore due to access or price therefore less youth tag along. And youth as well as middle aged (I’m included) are far more instant gratification driven.

Texas as far as public affordable options is absolutely horrendous but in their defense they only have so much to work with. There’s only so much land... and we all want “new hunters”. They got to go somewhere. It’s changed public duck hunting in ways states are limiting out of state access. It’s unreal.

New recruits are dropping, but it’s not the law causing it. Everything will balance in the end
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:12 PM   #6
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Youth need to be exempt from AR's on their first buck. jmo

Hunter access and over regulations are killing the sport of hunting, just a mater of time.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:13 PM   #7
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It took me a couple bbn of years to find a legal buck and take it when I was a kid. All it did was make me hunt harder.
I had a big doe 3 yards past my self imposed range with a trad bow tonight and passed her. I make that shot every day on a target. But on an animal I want it closer. I learned that patience as a youth.
Too many people expect instant gratification. Is that hunting or shooting?

Gary
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:15 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bear Charge View Post
Just watched my 10yr old son let a ~4 year old walk because he was too close to call. Would've been a trophy in my day.
13 inch rule is socialism, someone telling you what a trophy should be....
If TP&W laws state you can harvest 2 bucks or one buck pertaining to its county, then why does it matter what size it is!
Oh, I forgot, some elitist didn’t agree
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:16 PM   #9
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Youth need to be exempt from AR's on their first buck. jmo

Hunter access and over regulations are killing the sport of hunting, just a mater of time.
No way.
I went on 15-20 hunts as a youth (may seem like nothing now, but then I was only hunting once or twice a year) and never got a shot off. I ended up going on to take a red stag as my first deer through a writing contest through TPWD and didn't have to pay a dime other than the mounting fees for the shoulder mount.

It was worth the wait. Granted, this opportunity won't be for everybody. But when they do get their first buck or deer, they will remember it forever.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:16 PM   #10
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So your complaint is that there was no instant gratification and that y’all may have to put in a little more effort??

Sounds like a teachable/learning type of moment to me.
The guy is in East Texas.

I can totally relate and it’s not lack of effort. It can be frustrating.

If you are taking your kids hunting then you are in a very small percentage of parents in this modern world.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:18 PM   #11
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Youth need to be exempt from AR's on their first buck. jmo

Hunter access and over regulations are killing the sport of hunting, just a mater of time.
They are. Never seen a one get a ticket. Had a 2.5 that I passed twice could have killed with a golf club killed by youth. So what. He’s happy and it’s a deer. Posted on social media

Hard to loose a 120+” 2 yo bit that’s today’s “give it to me now I deserve it” and parents are to blame (I’m one of them)
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by TXHunter12 View Post
The guy is in East Texas.

I can totally relate and it’s not lack of effort. It can be frustrating.

If you are taking your kids hunting then you are in a very small percentage of parents in this modern world.
East, south, west, north, it does not matter where you are. If the kid can shoot at every deer that walks out "legally", then what fun is there? That isn't hunting. That's shooting. The joy of taking a buck or even a doe after many many unsuccessful hunts is worth it. And yes, I hunted East Texas for years as a kid and never got a shot off. I understand the frustration, but it is worth the wait.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:32 PM   #13
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When I was a kid, my dad didn't deer hunt. My mom's dad and brothers all deer hunted though. They would hunt several properties, private and public. If they got a 6 point, that was considered a "big buck". They were only allowed one deer all season back then, and some years couldn't even get one. Since the antler restrictions, most bucks get to live at least 2 years around here before they're legal and we have the opportunity to get four deer a year. Deer poulation and quality are up considerably. I go a couple years sometimes without taking a deer. I prefer to "hunt" all season, instead of just go out and "kill" on my first sit of the year. A little different with kids, but it teaches patience. Hopefully your kiddo can connect on a legal buck and be proud of it.

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Old 12-08-2018, 08:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by TXHunter12 View Post
In the end we are losing interest with youth and hunting sports in general.
There will be less people hunting in the future.
Not even close..

Attended a high school sporting clays event today. In the rain and mud. If there was one there was 175 kids there. Im willing to bet 90% of them deer hunt. I know every one of the 40 or so I knew do. With their parents.

Id also like to add our high school team had 5 shooters last year. We're over 20 this year. Kids shooting sports is growing leaps and bounds!



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Old 12-08-2018, 08:58 PM   #15
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the whole youth should be exempt is the exact same mentality as everyone gets a trophy. we need to teach our youth that sometimes the reward comes with hard work and effort. if you feel your kid will lose interest if they dont get to shoot a deer take them squirrel hunting or coon hunting or some other sort of hunting where shot opportunities come more often then transition them to deer.

congrats to the OP's kid for doing the right thing.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:10 PM   #16
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Can’t eat them horns. Guess the Texas parks and wildlife forgot that people eat deer. Not just mount them.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:12 PM   #17
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I understand both sides of the debate. If you don’t buy into the AR regs, then all of the elitist hunters think you are a member of the “if it’s brown, it’s down” clan. My guess is, before it’s over with, the State will want all bucks to be P&Y minimum. Because we all know that if a buck doesn’t meet a certain criteria and you want to reward your youth hunter with their first ever deer, then you’re obviously a bad parent and shouldn’t be allowed to take to your kids hunting.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Quackerbox View Post
Not even close..

Attended a high school sporting clays event today. In the rain and mud. If there was one there was 175 kids there. Im willing to bet 90% of them deer hunt. I know every one of the 40 or so I knew do. With their parents.

Id also like to add our high school team had 5 shooters last year. We're over 20 this year. Kids shooting sports is growing leaps and bounds!



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TPWL say youth hunter numbers are down.
My son hunts, been going to the deer stand with me since he was 2.... he’s in the minority at his school


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Old 12-08-2018, 09:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
the whole youth should be exempt is the exact same mentality as everyone gets a trophy. we need to teach our youth that sometimes the reward comes with hard work and effort. if you feel your kid will lose interest if they dont get to shoot a deer take them squirrel hunting or coon hunting or some other sort of hunting where shot opportunities come more often then transition them to deer.

congrats to the OP's kid for doing the right thing.
I agree with u on this. I understand you wanting ur kid to be able to harvest something so that u can celebrate and be proud of them but teaching ur kids patience and what it takes to put in the effort is what it’s all about. If they can kill something every time they go out and put in no effort to kill anything then what’s the point.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Calfroper81 View Post
I agree with u on this. I understand you wanting ur kid to be able to harvest something so that u can celebrate and be proud of them but teaching ur kids patience and what it takes to put in the effort is what it’s all about. If they can kill something every time they go out and put in no effort to kill anything then what’s the point.
I don’t think anyone is saying or expecting their kids to kill a game animal every time they step foot in the field. Real hunters know this can’t and won’t happen EVER and not training their youth hunters to have those kind of unreal expectations.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:31 PM   #21
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It’s a frustrating situation for sure, let him shoot a doe if you can and keep taking him. I’m betting he will wait for the right one, congratulations to him for understanding the rules and passing on the buck.
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:49 PM   #22
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I’ve started to pay attention to this trend the last few years, and where I’m at it’s certainly true that hunter numbers are declining (we’ve lost 18,000 hunters in the last 5 years in Arkansas). In Arkansas! A state far more rural than Texas that is renowned for hunting. 18,000!!!

People just aren’t getting into it like they used to. Luckily, our youth hunters can shoot the first deer that steps out & I wholeheartedly believe they ought to be able to. We are blessed to have really good deer hunting and really good numbers, but a lot of deer MUST be shot to maintain balance!

It’s late black powder season in my zone. I hunted on top of a ridge in the absolute heart of north Arkansas deer country this morning. Beautiful snowy morning, deer were moving everywhere, and I heard a grand total of ONE shot. No one is in the woods anymore!
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:52 PM   #23
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We started on squirrels, rabbits and game birds. Well actually we were murderous little bastages with BB guns on sparrows before that. Hunting was in our blood long before deer hunting.

Gary
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:01 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Razrbk89 View Post
I’ve started to pay attention to this trend the last few years, and where I’m at it’s certainly true that hunter numbers are declining (we’ve lost 18,000 hunters in the last 5 years in Arkansas). In Arkansas! A state far more rural than Texas that is renowned for hunting. 18,000!!!

People just aren’t getting into it like they used to. Luckily, our youth hunters can shoot the first deer that steps out & I wholeheartedly believe they ought to be able to. We are blessed to have really good deer hunting and really good numbers, but a lot of deer MUST be shot to maintain balance!

It’s late black powder season in my zone. I hunted on top of a ridge in the absolute heart of north Arkansas deer country this morning. Beautiful snowy morning, deer were moving everywhere, and I heard a grand total of ONE shot. No one is in the woods anymore!
Must be regional then. I’ve seen every place I hunt in that state grow 10x and some to the point thy aren’t huntable anymore in just the last 5-6 years. Places that have had 4-5 cars on tens of thousands of acres now there’s no parking area. You can’t go far enough in any direction to get away from anyone

Last edited by Low Fence; 12-08-2018 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:03 PM   #25
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Must be regional then. I’ve seen every place I hunt in that state grow 10x and some to the point thy aren’t huntable anymore in just the last 5-6 years. Places that inve had 4-5 cars on tens of thousands of acres now there’s no parking atea
Duck hunting, I’m guessing?
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:11 PM   #26
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Duck hunting, I’m guessing?
Both. Started duck and it got so bad I quit the whole state. Deer is getting 2x worse by the year. This year I took a boat over a mile down a very large river, into a mega super larger river and went upstream a ways with a 225 hp out board to access a place that would take people 2.5 miles MINIMUM to access....... saw hunters. Walking around prime rim clueless. Saw a fawn running at speeds not thought possible of a North America animal.

I won’t blame people for not knowing better, they got to learn. But there’s ZERO hunter shortage. There’s a land shortage
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:32 PM   #27
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Both. Started duck and it got so bad I quit the whole state. Deer is getting 2x worse by the year. This year I took a boat over a mile down a very large river, into a mega super larger river and went upstream a ways with a 225 hp out board to access a place that would take people 2.5 miles MINIMUM to access....... saw hunters. Walking around prime rim clueless. Saw a fawn running at speeds not thought possible of a North America animal.

I won’t blame people for not knowing better, they got to learn. But there’s ZERO hunter shortage. There’s a land shortage
Off topic... but I’m selfishly hoping a lot of people give up the state for duck hunting. It’s affected our hunting negatively in a major way on state areas. I’m a young guy (29) but I am lucky to remember an entirely different duck hunting scene. I’ve just about given up going to the duck woods closest to my house. This year has been better (probably due to lack of birds more than anything), but our local ramp is PACKED with out of staters. TN, AL, SC, TX, GA. Hell they’ll outnumber locals 4-1. It’s caused lots of problems.

As far as the deer hunting goes, the primo public areas you’re describing have changed some too, again, largely due to out of state hunters. Check the license plates next time you go to the river... I was shocked last year when I went...

I was mainly talking about private lands and the numbers/observations don’t lie. Participation is down markedly. I am concerned about it.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:46 PM   #28
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All this complaint about getting youth involved for so many various reasons.

I have to call B.S.

There are so many opportunities out there. State youth draw hunts, TPWD various youth programs, organizations that do youth hunts, not to count the number of people that would take a youth to their place to hunt in a heartbeat if the interest was expressed.

I don’t think it is an opportunity or antler restriction issue, but a lack of interest from a parent/guardian/mentor. Easier to complain than work at creating opportunity for the youngster.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:58 PM   #29
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All this complaint about getting youth involved for so many various reasons.

I have to call B.S.

There are so many opportunities out there. State youth draw hunts, TPWD various youth programs, organizations that do youth hunts, not to count the number of people that would take a youth to their place to hunt in a heartbeat if the interest was expressed.

I don’t think it is an opportunity or antler restriction issue, but a lack of interest from a parent/guardian/mentor. Easier to complain than work at creating opportunity for the youngster.
I have no less than 20 kids NOW begging me to “take me hunting “. I don’t have the resources to do it. I’ll make the time as much as possible. But I can’t just whore a place out in the name of quenching blood thirst.

When younger everything n my area was 200ish acres and the owner and his brother in law and his son hunted it...3 o so. Now that 200 is busted into 20 acre blocks with same situation... 30.

There’s so many hunting in small bull )&@% area Texas it’s crazy and sooo many n quality Texas most can’t afford it.

Numbers are there to the point the land can’t support it on most areas
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:08 PM   #30
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We started on squirrels, rabbits and game birds. Well actually we were murderous little bastages with BB guns on sparrows before that. Hunting was in our blood long before deer hunting.

Gary
Same here. Even had a bird feeder I built that I could flat sniper sparrows from my back door with a Daisy Powerline 880. Neighbor kid and I would have contest to see who could kill the most and make the longest shots
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:18 PM   #31
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When my Dad was in school years ago the school closed for opening day!

I have boys in school now. There is only a very and I mean a very few of the other kids that hunt. We are in a world where many don’t even know where the meat in their McDonald’s burger comes from. That is if they eat meat.

Times have changed and are changing fast.

We argue about the size of a deer’s antlers while the future generations are not hunting at all. Worse they are becoming anti hunting. I don’t mean just they don’t like hunting I mean they are actively against it.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:22 PM   #32
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When my Dad was in school years ago the school closed for opening day!

I have boys in school now. There is only a very and I mean a very few of the other kids that hunt. We are in a world where many don’t even know where the meat in their McDonald’s burger comes from. That is if they eat meat.

Times have changed and are changing fast.

We argue about the size of a deer’s antlers while the future generations are not hunting at all. Worse they are becoming anti hunting. I don’t mean just they don’t like hunting I mean they are actively against it.
Honest question, do you think AR regulations have anything to do with this number?
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:27 PM   #33
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Me and my daughter hunted together twice this season. She filled a buck tag on each sit.




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Old 12-08-2018, 11:33 PM   #34
Low Fence
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Me and my daughter hunted together twice this season. She filled a buck tag on each sit.




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That’s awesome! That’s second buck looks like a MMA fighter..... that lost
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:38 PM   #35
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Some of us believe our posterity should be hunters. Others believe they should be sportsmen. Not mutually exclusive you say? Well, yes, that’s true. But they have inherently different objectives.

Hunting focuses on killing an animal for food. Our earlier ancestors, native Americans, etc. were hunters, not sportsmen. Hunting was not always a sport.

Sporting focuses on means, methods, glorification of the animal (at least to a degree), and a higher level of fulfillment and satisfaction for the killer than just his belly.

Many of us are both. I personally feel both are fine. But whichever you are, nobody flat-out hunts out of necessity anymore. The cost to hunt, limited access to game (not necessarily population, but legalities/seasons, distance to hunt-able ground, etc) make your local grocer MUCH more economical. Sure, filling the freezer helps us justify our past time and offset some cost.

Nonetheless, TPWD’s push to get bucks to a mature age is sportsman-driven ($$$ debate aside), and many young hunters are just not there yet. Some are, and that’s fine, too. But it can have a negative effect on young hunters. Why should a hunter have to “earn” a kill over a long period of time? I don’t make my seven year old earn his protein every night. He is learning lessons of patience, drive, persistence in other areas of his life. The “sporting” mentality has overtaken our hunting culture and nearly replaced it’s basic tenant, providing food. Again, they can coexist, but I think we have to be careful to not lose sight of what it is we’re really doing, what really matters and what doesn’t.

I realize my position is counter to many reading this. But Sporting has been engrained in many of us and “hunting” has been redefined by the marketing, advertising and social media we see throughout the “hunting industry”, TBH being no exception—and really a guide for many, in some respects.

Make no mistake, I love big antlers. They make us proud. They’re a symbol of prowess and status in the animal kingdom. But should all hunters be forced to be sportsmen? Because, to suggest that a young kid killing an immature animal is likened to “everyone getting a trophy” and several other similar comments is basically asserting that it’s unacceptable simply be a hunter.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this because I realize hunting and sporting are one and the same to most here. But maybe it can be food for thought for some. I don’t know.

God bless and happy hunting. Or sporting.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:48 PM   #36
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Honest question, do you think AR regulations have anything to do with this number?
I think it one of many factors. It’s not a top factor. I agree with you that the decline in abundance of hunting land is a large factor. There are lots of other factors: anti gun media, anti meat eaters, animal lovers, Hollywood, modern culture, etc. It’s a long list.

My personal experience this year is I’m hunting a small property that I own.

I have a young son I’m trying to help shoot his first buck. I’ve had him pass on a deer that I think is plus 5 years and is an east Texas basket (one which should be culled for management). He was too close to call and was worried he would come up less than 13.

Then I’ve had him pass on a legal buck that was clearly bigger than 13. But I believe he was only 2 years. That was a confusing conversation to have with him.

Lots of stand time so at this point I believe he has learned patience I don’t know of too many kids (or adults) they can stay in a stand before sunrise to sunset. We did that a few times.

After about our 12th trip he’s started to lose interest so I will be working on that. The last two times I asked if he wanted to go he said maybe next time

I know the AR has benefits but like everything else it’s not perfect.

Last edited by TXHunter12; 12-08-2018 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:59 PM   #37
Low Fence
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I think it one of many factors. It’s not a top factor. I agree with you that the decline in abundance of hunting land is a large factor. There are lots of other factors: anti gun media, anti meat eaters, animal lovers, Hollywood, modern culture, etc. It’s a long list.

My personal experience this year is I’m hunting a small property that I own.

I have a young son I’m trying to help shoot his first buck. I’ve had him pass on a deer that I think is plus 5 years and is an east Texas basket (one which should be culled for management). He was too close to call and was worried he would come up less than 13.

Then I’ve had him pass on a legal buck that was clearly bigger than 13. But I believe he was only 2 years. That was a confusing conversation to have with him.

Lots of stand time so at this point I believe he has learned patience I don’t know of too many kids (or adults) they can stay in a stand before sunrise to sunset.

After about our 12th trip he’s started to lose interest so I will be working on that. The last two times I asked if he wanted to go he said maybe next time

I know the AR has benefits but like everything else it’s not perfect.
I applaud you for take your kid hunting.

Where I get confused, is passing a legal buck THAT THEY WANT TO SHOOT in the name of “management “

I have zero desire to shoot a young deer anymore, none.... but my daughter don’t know how to age and I watched her shake like micheal j fox shooting a year and a half 3 pt. She’s hooked... it’s a deer.... they make more every year.... it’s small low fence property

Take them hunting AND HAVE FUN!!! &@$% management. Manage to have fun with your kids. You never know how long you got. So enjoy

Last edited by Low Fence; 12-09-2018 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:02 AM   #38
Muskles
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I think it one of many factors. It’s not a top factor. I agree with you that the decline in abundance of hunting land is a large factor. There are lots of other factors: anti gun media, anti meat eaters, animal lovers, Hollywood, modern culture, etc. It’s a long list.
Also a lot of kids live with only one parent. Kids are involved in sports and other activities that interfere with hunting time. Parents are also busier these days with things that don't allow time for hunting. Video games and social media are more important to kids than sitting in the woods.

Back when most of us were younger, sitting in the woods waiting to see an animal beat playing with rocks and sticks. Lol

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Old 12-09-2018, 12:10 AM   #39
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Some of us believe our posterity should be hunters. Others believe they should be sportsmen. Not mutually exclusive you say? Well, yes, that’s true. But they have inherently different objectives.

Hunting focuses on killing an animal for food. Our earlier ancestors, native Americans, etc. were hunters, not sportsmen. Hunting was not always a sport.

Sporting focuses on means, methods, glorification of the animal (at least to a degree), and a higher level of fulfillment and satisfaction for the killer than just his belly.

Many of us are both. I personally feel both are fine. But whichever you are, nobody flat-out hunts out of necessity anymore. The cost to hunt, limited access to game (not necessarily population, but legalities/seasons, distance to hunt-able ground, etc) make your local grocer MUCH more economical. Sure, filling the freezer helps us justify our past time and offset some cost.

Nonetheless, TPWD’s push to get bucks to a mature age is sportsman-driven ($$$ debate aside), and many young hunters are just not there yet. Some are, and that’s fine, too. But it can have a negative effect on young hunters. Why should a hunter have to “earn” a kill over a long period of time? I don’t make my seven year old earn his protein every night. He is learning lessons of patience, drive, persistence in other areas of his life. The “sporting” mentality has overtaken our hunting culture and nearly replaced it’s basic tenant, providing food. Again, they can coexist, but I think we have to be careful to not lose sight of what it is we’re really doing, what really matters and what doesn’t.

I realize my position is counter to many reading this. But Sporting has been engrained in many of us and “hunting” has been redefined by the marketing, advertising and social media we see throughout the “hunting industry”, TBH being no exception—and really a guide for many, in some respects.

Make no mistake, I love big antlers. They make us proud. They’re a symbol of prowess and status in the animal kingdom. But should all hunters be forced to be sportsmen? Because, to suggest that a young kid killing an immature animal is likened to “everyone getting a trophy” and several other similar comments is basically asserting that it’s unacceptable simply be a hunter.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this because I realize hunting and sporting are one and the same to most here. But maybe it can be food for thought for some. I don’t know.

God bless and happy hunting. Or sporting.
I like this post. A lot of what I was thinking was posted in this post
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:22 AM   #40
castlegaphunter
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Originally Posted by woodsman View Post
Some of us believe our posterity should be hunters. Others believe they should be sportsmen. Not mutually exclusive you say? Well, yes, that’s true. But they have inherently different objectives.

Hunting focuses on killing an animal for food. Our earlier ancestors, native Americans, etc. were hunters, not sportsmen. Hunting was not always a sport.

Sporting focuses on means, methods, glorification of the animal (at least to a degree), and a higher level of fulfillment and satisfaction for the killer than just his belly.

Many of us are both. I personally feel both are fine. But whichever you are, nobody flat-out hunts out of necessity anymore. The cost to hunt, limited access to game (not necessarily population, but legalities/seasons, distance to hunt-able ground, etc) make your local grocer MUCH more economical. Sure, filling the freezer helps us justify our past time and offset some cost.

Nonetheless, TPWD’s push to get bucks to a mature age is sportsman-driven ($$$ debate aside), and many young hunters are just not there yet. Some are, and that’s fine, too. But it can have a negative effect on young hunters. Why should a hunter have to “earn” a kill over a long period of time? I don’t make my seven year old earn his protein every night. He is learning lessons of patience, drive, persistence in other areas of his life. The “sporting” mentality has overtaken our hunting culture and nearly replaced it’s basic tenant, providing food. Again, they can coexist, but I think we have to be careful to not lose sight of what it is we’re really doing, what really matters and what doesn’t.

I realize my position is counter to many reading this. But Sporting has been engrained in many of us and “hunting” has been redefined by the marketing, advertising and social media we see throughout the “hunting industry”, TBH being no exception—and really a guide for many, in some respects.

Make no mistake, I love big antlers. They make us proud. They’re a symbol of prowess and status in the animal kingdom. But should all hunters be forced to be sportsmen? Because, to suggest that a young kid killing an immature animal is likened to “everyone getting a trophy” and several other similar comments is basically asserting that it’s unacceptable simply be a hunter.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this because I realize hunting and sporting are one and the same to most here. But maybe it can be food for thought for some. I don’t know.

God bless and happy hunting. Or sporting.
This is a sound argument.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:22 AM   #41
Low Fence
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Originally Posted by woodsman View Post
Some of us believe our posterity should be hunters. Others believe they should be sportsmen. Not mutually exclusive you say? Well, yes, that’s true. But they have inherently different objectives.

Hunting focuses on killing an animal for food. Our earlier ancestors, native Americans, etc. were hunters, not sportsmen. Hunting was not always a sport.

Sporting focuses on means, methods, glorification of the animal (at least to a degree), and a higher level of fulfillment and satisfaction for the killer than just his belly.

Many of us are both. I personally feel both are fine. But whichever you are, nobody flat-out hunts out of necessity anymore. The cost to hunt, limited access to game (not necessarily population, but legalities/seasons, distance to hunt-able ground, etc) make your local grocer MUCH more economical. Sure, filling the freezer helps us justify our past time and offset some cost.

Nonetheless, TPWD’s push to get bucks to a mature age is sportsman-driven ($$$ debate aside), and many young hunters are just not there yet. Some are, and that’s fine, too. But it can have a negative effect on young hunters. Why should a hunter have to “earn” a kill over a long period of time? I don’t make my seven year old earn his protein every night. He is learning lessons of patience, drive, persistence in other areas of his life. The “sporting” mentality has overtaken our hunting culture and nearly replaced it’s basic tenant, providing food. Again, they can coexist, but I think we have to be careful to not lose sight of what it is we’re really doing, what really matters and what doesn’t.

I realize my position is counter to many reading this. But Sporting has been engrained in many of us and “hunting” has been redefined by the marketing, advertising and social media we see throughout the “hunting industry”, TBH being no exception—and really a guide for many, in some respects.

Make no mistake, I love big antlers. They make us proud. They’re a symbol of prowess and status in the animal kingdom. But should all hunters be forced to be sportsmen? Because, to suggest that a young kid killing an immature animal is likened to “everyone getting a trophy” and several other similar comments is basically asserting that it’s unacceptable simply be a hunter.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this because I realize hunting and sporting are one and the same to most here. But maybe it can be food for thought for some. I don’t know.

God bless and happy hunting. Or sporting.
Lots of good stuff here. But the biggest misconception is the AR is to “produce trophies “. It’s not it’s a byproduct of a better age class. When I started hunting at around 11-12 I remember hunting 3 years.... years.... years before I saw a deer on stand. Now on same property I can see them daily. Before AR (that I admit I fought tooth and nail for) I had around a 14:1 buck tondoe ratio... now I’m closer to 3:1 and can rattle in bucks

So since AR:

I have more deer
I have more bucks... some legal some not
I have bigger buck
I have a better age structure in my deer herd
I have a betterherd

And I spent a few extra hours in blind with daughter p get her a buck
All wins to me
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:26 AM   #42
Mbbriggs05
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I think it’s a multi faceted issue. A lot depends on the areas where you hunt and what game you are after. I’m on the TX/LA coast and duck hunting has gotten plum ridiculous. Lots of hunters that have no clue what they are doing with a complete lack of respect for each other and that’s just the public guys. Private has gotten so expensive you almost can’t afford a good lease. Bird numbers as a whole are up but we don’t get near as many in our marshes as we used to unles your willing to sleep in truck in line at the refuge.

When it comes to deer there is a decent amount of public within 2hr drive from me but you can bet your gonna spend some serious time in the woods to find one that meets AR, now does on the other hand are plentiful but you can only take one during archery unless you draw a tag for a Type II rifle doe. Leases are getting more and more expensive around our area and we aren’t seeing near the deer that we used to. Pretty sure that’s due to our local outlaw population though.

As to kids/youth wanting to hunt.....I can promise you they aren’t in short supply, every one of kids friends asks if they can tag along. From what I see it’s a lack of interest or willingness on parents parts to get them out there.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:27 AM   #43
castlegaphunter
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So your complaint is that there was no instant gratification and that y’all may have to put in a little more effort??

Sounds like a teachable/learning type of moment to me.
The idea that someone wanting to shoot a buck is on the same playing field as someone wanting instant gratification is perplexing. To some, shooting a deer is just that. Shooting a deer. Not everybody has to have a high fence ranch mentality. If I want to shoot a young buck then I'm going to do it. Because its a deer.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:27 AM   #44
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What woodsman said.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:31 AM   #45
Mbbriggs05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsman View Post
Some of us believe our posterity should be hunters. Others believe they should be sportsmen. Not mutually exclusive you say? Well, yes, that’s true. But they have inherently different objectives.

Hunting focuses on killing an animal for food. Our earlier ancestors, native Americans, etc. were hunters, not sportsmen. Hunting was not always a sport.

Sporting focuses on means, methods, glorification of the animal (at least to a degree), and a higher level of fulfillment and satisfaction for the killer than just his belly.

Many of us are both. I personally feel both are fine. But whichever you are, nobody flat-out hunts out of necessity anymore. The cost to hunt, limited access to game (not necessarily population, but legalities/seasons, distance to hunt-able ground, etc) make your local grocer MUCH more economical. Sure, filling the freezer helps us justify our past time and offset some cost.

Nonetheless, TPWD’s push to get bucks to a mature age is sportsman-driven ($$$ debate aside), and many young hunters are just not there yet. Some are, and that’s fine, too. But it can have a negative effect on young hunters. Why should a hunter have to “earn” a kill over a long period of time? I don’t make my seven year old earn his protein every night. He is learning lessons of patience, drive, persistence in other areas of his life. The “sporting” mentality has overtaken our hunting culture and nearly replaced it’s basic tenant, providing food. Again, they can coexist, but I think we have to be careful to not lose sight of what it is we’re really doing, what really matters and what doesn’t.

I realize my position is counter to many reading this. But Sporting has been engrained in many of us and “hunting” has been redefined by the marketing, advertising and social media we see throughout the “hunting industry”, TBH being no exception—and really a guide for many, in some respects.

Make no mistake, I love big antlers. They make us proud. They’re a symbol of prowess and status in the animal kingdom. But should all hunters be forced to be sportsmen? Because, to suggest that a young kid killing an immature animal is likened to “everyone getting a trophy” and several other similar comments is basically asserting that it’s unacceptable simply be a hunter.

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this because I realize hunting and sporting are one and the same to most here. But maybe it can be food for thought for some. I don’t know.

God bless and happy hunting. Or sporting.
Your NAILED it!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:32 AM   #46
woodsman
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Originally Posted by Low Fence View Post
Lots of good stuff here. But the biggest misconception is the AR is to “produce trophies “. It’s not it’s a byproduct of a better age class. When I started hunting at around 11-12 I remember hunting 3 years.... years.... years before I saw a deer on stand. Now on same property I can see them daily. Before AR (that I admit I fought tooth and nail for) I had around a 14:1 buck tondoe ratio... now I’m closer to 3:1 and can rattle in bucks

So since AR:

I have more deer
I have more bucks... some legal some not
I have bigger buck
I have a better age structure in my deer herd
I have a betterherd

And I spent a few extra hours in blind with daughter p get her a buck
All wins to me
Understood. I don’t disagree that there are positive benefits to the rule, but this rule is generally geared toward sportsmen. The benefits are not unanimous, else we wouldn’t have discouraged youth hunters. Would be great to have some flexibility for the youth.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:34 AM   #47
Fishndude
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Take them hunting AND HAVE FUN!!! &@$% management. Manage to have fun with your kids. You never know how long you got. So enjoy
Management of a deer herd doesn’t take the fun out of hunting.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:37 AM   #48
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Congrats on following the law
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:46 AM   #49
Low Fence
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Management of a deer herd doesn’t take the fun out of hunting.
Doesn’t to me. I love it

Butnot everyone had same goals and “management “ plans

If I’m managing trophies and neighbor is managing maximum herd capacity and we’re both on 30 acres we aint managing $&%@ but to get frustrated. And that’s not what it’s about for most hunters
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:56 AM   #50
Fishndude
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Doesn’t to me. I love it

Butnot everyone had same goals and “management “ plans

If I’m managing trophies and neighbor is managing maximum herd capacity and we’re both on 30 acres we aint managing $&%@ but to get frustrated. And that’s not what it’s about for most hunters
You’ve lost track of the topic. While I agree with your scenario, AR (original topic) is meant to manage an overall deer herd for everyone with 30 acres or 30k acres.
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