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Old 10-06-2017, 08:49 PM   #1
RickBarbee
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Default Dynamic Spine Calculator (ONLINE)

Stu Miller's Dynamic Spine Calculator now ONLINE.

Calculator LINK

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Old 10-06-2017, 09:47 PM   #2
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Not sure it's working right.
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:51 PM   #3
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Itís the same as 3 rivers right?


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Old 10-06-2017, 10:03 PM   #4
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Hey Rick, it always tells me a WAY stiffer spine, and I almost completely quit looking at any of the online spine calculators. Nice Homepage though.
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:19 PM   #5
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It's working. I guarantee it. I tested it in every browser known to man.

Not the same as 3rivers. #rivers is a stripped down version.
This is the full version, straight from Stu himself.

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Old 10-06-2017, 10:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
Hey Rick, it always tells me a WAY stiffer spine, and I almost completely quit looking at any of the online spine calculators. Nice Homepage though.
What are you bow specs?

Everything has to be entered correctly, or it'll be way off on the calculation.

If I had your spec, I bet I could calculate an arrow that works, and I bet it'll be close to if not spot on to what you are using now.

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Old 10-06-2017, 10:34 PM   #7
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Did you try it On safari mobile it might be my phone.


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Old 10-06-2017, 10:38 PM   #8
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Did you try it On safari mobile it might be my phone.


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Have to admit, I did not.
I did do it on my phone using Chrome, and Firefox. Worked perfectly on those.

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Old 10-06-2017, 10:44 PM   #9
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Unfortunately this may not be (probably isn't) compatible with any of the apple devices, and software.

EDIT: And I don't have any of that stuff to play with to figure it out.

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Old 10-06-2017, 10:54 PM   #10
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Told me basically the same thing as the 3rivers one except Stu doesn't list Black Eagle arrows.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Told me basically the same thing as the 3rivers one except Stu doesn't list Black Eagle arrows.
I always enter the raw data of the shafts & bow instead of using the manufactures list. Seems to be more accurate for me that way

Here's a screen shot of my current bow & arrows entered into the calculator in raw data, instead of using manufacturers selections.

It is spot on. Shows my arrows to be slightly weak, which I do on purpose.

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Old 10-08-2017, 05:12 PM   #12
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Trying the calculator.
This is what I meant about the spine was showing Very weak.
Never mind I cannot make the screen shot post.
Dynamic spine of arrow was 42.6
Longbow required says 48.1
GT 500- 3555- 100 gran brass- 145 grn point- 3X3" Feathers average nock weight is 15 grains
On my scale the longbow is 48# @ 28 inches and cut to 1/16 so with rest is 1/8 from center with fast flight string

Last edited by Dry Bones; 10-08-2017 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 10-08-2017, 05:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
Trying the calculator.
This is what I meant about the spine was showing Very weak.
Never mind I cannot make the screen shot post.
Dynamic spine of arrow was 42.6
Longbow required says 48.1
GT 500- 3555- 100 gran brass- 145 grn point- 3X3" Feathers average nock weight is 15 grains
On my scale the longbow is 48# @ 28 inches and cut to 1/16 so with rest is 1/8 from center with fast flight string
R&D modern longbow, or regular old longbow?
I'm assuming that's a +1/8"?
Your draw length is 28?
To back of point length of arrow?
Type of string, and strand count?

Rick

Last edited by RickBarbee; 10-08-2017 at 06:06 PM..
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Old 10-08-2017, 06:13 PM   #14
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I've been working on arrows for my Big Jim today. Your calculator and the 3 rivers gave me similar results. However I had so much left nock left it was scary. Randy has been kind enough to coach me through the process so far. I've trimmed an inch and three quarters off and getting decent bare shaft flight now. But dang it's been a process. Just the opposite with my Widow. Calculator says, I does, it worked.

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Old 10-08-2017, 06:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
I've been working on arrows for my Big Jim today. Your calculator and the 3 rivers gave me similar results. However I had so much left nock left it was scary. Randy has been kind enough to coach me through the process so far. I've trimmed an inch and three quarters off and getting decent bare shaft flight now. But dang it's been a process. Just the opposite with my Widow. Calculator says, I does, it worked.

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The BW bows have a terrific handle/grip, which almost forces you to hold the bow correctly at center.

Since the calculator has to work from center, any deviation of grip from center will throw it off.

On any bow, you need to figure out your grip on the bow, that gives you the center line. If you can't do that, and have an arrow that works like you want it to - well then, that's what the personal form factor adjustment in the calculator is for, (among other things).

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Old 10-08-2017, 06:26 PM   #16
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Lol. I figured I was the bad factor in it. It's just funny how different all this is. With a compound it was simple. The equipment was more complicated but it minimized the human equation. With this stuff the human equation is definitely a key factor.

I'm learning though.

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Old 10-09-2017, 03:00 PM   #17
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Rick, my longbow is the good ASL style no reflex/deflex limb design. Correct +1/8 arrow pass from center.
Sorry It was suppose to read 48# @ 27' on my scale. Which for whatever reason generally shows 3-5# lighter on EVERY bow I scale. I hung a 25# dumbbell from it and it scaled correctly?? To back of point arrow length is 29" String is fast flight and 10 strand I think...
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Old 10-09-2017, 03:03 PM   #18
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DRT, Welcome to my world/
The reason i wanted away from the compound to some extent was that the mechanical components were complicated be it compound. and it did not take much rough hunting to bump something and not have the exact tune you had.
The traditional type bows are more simple weapon and VERY COMPLEX to learn. But it is all on the shooter.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:11 PM   #19
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Calculator page has been update to Stu's newest release.

LINK

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Old 10-11-2017, 10:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
Hey Rick, it always tells me a WAY stiffer spine, and I almost completely quit looking at any of the online spine calculators. Nice Homepage though.
Hey Cody.

After thinking about it, it dawned on me THAT a 100gr brass insert is actually a substantial internal footing also, so I enterd your arrow config taking that into account.

I guess at the insert as being 1" in length, but I think they are longer than that.

Here's your calculation figuring the footing. It's pretty darn close.

Rick
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:08 PM   #21
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There is a glitch/some bugs in the new calculator arrow selections. I just discovered this.

If you run across the glitch for your arrow selection, you can work around it by selecting "other", then manually entering your arrow specs. If you don't want to do that, there is a link to use the old calculator.

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Old 10-11-2017, 04:47 PM   #22
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Rick, I have two different 100 grain brass inserts. One is 1&3/4" the other is 1& 3/8 just was a wider collar at the top. I went to the Archery Shop here in Corsicana and they scaled my new to me Hummingbird. My home scale is off so my bow is 51.5 at 28" and just barely under 48 at my draw.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:21 PM   #23
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Cody, here is your bow, and your arrow with the 100gr inserts figured in two different calculators.

Keep in mind, the only footing length to be calculated is that which goes beyond the length of a standard insert. That being the case, I split the 100gr weight up between the insert & the footing to 25 for the insert, and 75 for the footing with a 1.2" length for the footing.

Now, this may not be dead nutz/spot on, but I guarantee it is very close, and shows your arrow to be well withing the acceptable range of dynamic spine for the bow.

You have the correct arrow. You just weren't getting it's specs entered into the calculator correctly.

The bottom line is - run with it. You're good to go.

Rick
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:57 PM   #24
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It's odd how the two different calculations give some slight variance in Speed and Energy.
Thanks for putting this together.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
It's odd how the two different calculations give some slight variance in Speed and Energy.
Thanks for putting this together.
Stu did some tweaking on the new version to get it to be a bit more accurate.
Not enough difference to worry about though.

Now we just need to figure out what is keeping it from being web friendly.

This has been one of the toughest projects I have ever dove into.
The good thing is, I at least have one version up & running.
I'll get the new one working like it should eventually.

Rick
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:26 PM   #26
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Can't get it to work for me. If someone can I'd like to see what it says.

Sarrels Blueridge sr 52@ 29.5"
Cut to center with probably 1/16" Velcro
Gold tip trad classic 400
78 grain insert
125 grain point
13 grain nock
5" feathers (3)
Arrow length 31.5"

I'm betting it says weak. All other calculators do. It will bust a fletched arrow's nock with a bareshaft though.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
Can't get it to work for me. If someone can I'd like to see what it says.

Sarrels Blueridge sr 52@ 29.5"
Cut to center with probably 1/16" Velcro
Gold tip trad classic 400
78 grain insert
125 grain point
13 grain nock
5" feathers (3)
Arrow length 31.5"

I'm betting it says weak. All other calculators do. It will bust a fletched arrow's nock with a bareshaft though.
Not enough info there to work with.

Need to know the shaft gpi.
Need to know the shaft diameter
Need to know the length of the insert.

With what you listed, plus those things, I can probably run your numbers for you. Without those things it's a no can do.

Rick
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:48 PM   #28
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Rick that's just too much to deal with. If I have to deal with a digital micrometers and scale in grains for every bow and arrow combination I deal with that sucks. I never have to do that with a compound. It cannot be that complicated?
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Rick that's just too much to deal with. If I have to deal with a digital micrometers and scale in grains for every bow and arrow combination I deal with that sucks. I never have to do that with a compound. It cannot be that complicated?
That particular arrow isn't in the data for the calculator, and that's why I need the info. I'll enter it as a carbon/other, then enter it's specs.

No, it isn't complicated, but it is precise.
You can't guess at values, and expect to have good results.

It's not that hard to find out the specs on the arrows you use, but I'm not going to do it for you.

Rick
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:05 PM   #30
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Well I can say you are right in that. I really need to measure my bows at my DL.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:19 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Well I can say you are right in that. I really need to measure my bows at my DL.
I try my best to know all of the accurate specs on all of my equipment.
It comes in handy on occasion.

Once I learn how to edit the actual programing of the data in the calculator, I will start adding items into it. That way folks won't have to do anything other than select their stuff from the drop down menus. Until then, those who don't have a selection in the menus can benefit tremendously by knowing the info/specs of their equipment, and just manually enter it.

Rick

Last edited by RickBarbee; 10-11-2017 at 10:21 PM..
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:21 PM   #32
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I've said it before. You don't leave much to chance.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:26 PM   #33
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Just makes me frustrated cause now I have to try harder cause I know you're right.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
Can't get it to work for me. If someone can I'd like to see what it says.

Sarrels Blueridge sr 52@ 29.5"
Cut to center with probably 1/16" Velcro
Gold tip trad classic 400
78 grain insert
125 grain point
13 grain nock
5" feathers (3)
Arrow length 31.5"

I'm betting it says weak. All other calculators do. It will bust a fletched arrow's nock with a bareshaft though.
I dug up all the info on those shafts.
That arrow length, is it the to back of point length, or is it the overall length?
Need the length from throat of nock to back of point.

Rick
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:12 AM   #35
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31.5" is throat of nock to back of point.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:46 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
31.5" is throat of nock to back of point.
Here's a screen shot of your results.

A 7# offset with the arrows on the weak side.

I suspect somewhere in there is an entry, that does not reflect actuality,
but the reality is, they work for you, so no worries.

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Old 10-12-2017, 01:19 PM   #37
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Thanks Rick. It's even worse than that because the insert is 78 grains.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
Thanks Rick. It's even worse than that because the insert is 78 grains.
The full 78 grains is accounted for.
Look again - the footing is 60gr, and the insert is 18 for a total of 78 grains.

The reason I did it that way is because those inserts are very long, and act as an internal footing.

Rick
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:41 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
The full 78 grains is accounted for.
Look again - the footing is 60gr, and the insert is 18 for a total of 78 grains.

The reason I did it that way is because those inserts are very long, and act as an internal footing.

Rick
Gotcha. Thanks I thought it was weaker than that. Good to know.
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Old 10-15-2017, 04:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
Gotcha. Thanks I thought it was weaker than that. Good to know.
This was bugging me, so I finally found all of the accurate info on your shafts at Big Jim's website.

Here's why those arrows shoot so good for you.
Tough to beat a matchup like this.

Rick
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:09 PM   #41
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That's awesome! Great to know my tuning came up with the calculator's results. That tool is amazing. Thanks for the research sir.
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:23 PM   #42
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One thing I never got. And I may be thinking wrong. When I get a new bow I always work on my brace height first. I want the quietest spot. What I think of as the sweet spot. I then tune my arrows from there with grouping bareshafts with fletched ones. My question is why do all the calculators say to fine tune arrow spine by adjusting brace? I get the whole moving up and down to make the arrow act weaker or stiffer, time the arrow spends on the string. My thoughts are that I would be moving away from my optimum brace height. Sorry I'm stuck in a hot pop up blind and my wheels are turning.
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:08 PM   #43
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Ken you are spot on I do the same. I use side plate thickness to fine tune if I need to keep a specific weight head


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Old 10-15-2017, 09:50 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
One thing I never got. And I may be thinking wrong. When I get a new bow I always work on my brace height first. I want the quietest spot. What I think of as the sweet spot. I then tune my arrows from there with grouping bareshafts with fletched ones. My question is why do all the calculators say to fine tune arrow spine by adjusting brace? I get the whole moving up and down to make the arrow act weaker or stiffer, time the arrow spends on the string. My thoughts are that I would be moving away from my optimum brace height. Sorry I'm stuck in a hot pop up blind and my wheels are turning.
I do the same.

I get my brace height where I want it, and then tune the arrow to the bow by making arrow changes, or centershot adjustment.

If
I have to change the brace height abn, it usually isn't much at all, and not enough to cause the bow to misbehave.

Rick
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:31 PM   #45
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It may be my form or whatever, but if my brace creeps 1/8", I shoot like crap. I guess that goes both ways huh? My bow is tuned to a certain height and so are my arrows. I may just understand this all some day. Seriously, thanks for the time you spent Rick.
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:35 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
It may be my form or whatever, but if my brace creeps 1/8", I shoot like crap. I guess that goes both ways huh? My bow is tuned to a certain height and so are my arrows. I may just understand this all some day. Seriously, thanks for the time you spent Rick.
You're quite welcome Brother.
I'm gonna post a screenshot of your numbers with the new calculator.
It's pretty cool.

Rick
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Old 10-15-2017, 10:42 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenWood View Post
That's awesome! Great to know my tuning came up with the calculator's results. That tool is amazing. Thanks for the research sir.
Here's your numbers run on the new calculator.

You want the blue (arrow) bar, and the green (bow average/primary bar) as closely matched as you can get them.

Your arrow is weak by less than 1#. Pretty close to perfect.

Rick
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:50 AM   #48
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Thank you for posting this!
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