The skinny on First Point Bowhunting Ranch

[felixkg]

This is my first booked hunt on a ranch. I have only hunted on leases, Sam Houston National Forest, and The South Texas Shootout.

I’m writing this to let everyone know what is going on over there at First Point. The guy in charge of the ranch is name Mike Palmer. Before me and my two friends Joe & Jesse got there, we asked around and was told that Mike Palmer was a real jerk with no sense of humor. We found out that this wasn’t all true. He seemed like an alright guy, but when we sat down he laid down all kinds of crazy rules. Some of these were, “no drinking beer outside the camp” & “no hunting within 100 yards of the feeders.” The biggest rule that effected the whole hunt was’ “NO SHOOTING DOES!” Because of this rule, there were a million does on a 6,000 acre low fence ranch. They were literally watching us put up our blinds. Mike Palmer’s explanation for this was so that when the rut comes around , he can suck all the bucks in from the surrounding ranches. When he said that, I thought to myself, “the other ranchers probably want to kick his ***!” Anyways….. The whole three day hunt, all I saw were about 30 does and a couple spikes. Needless to say that I’ll never go back. I did have a good time with my friends, but I’ll be haunted by does mocking me in my sleep for a little while. For the record: First Point Bowhunting ranch’s new name will forever be “The Doe Ranch.”

WARNING: Do not use popup blinds on this ranch. The deer (does) are super educated. It was so bad that my friend Jesse told me that when a doe approached him he could almost hear the doe tell her yearling, “look sweetie, that the new Double Bull Matrix.” Try to cut down brush to make your own blind, or you can use some of the existing brush blinds that were left by other hunters. If you look hard enough, you will find that there are plenty everywhere. Trust me. You won’t be fooling anyone with your, “high-speed, $300, scent control, crazy 3D camo, popup blind”

[SPUD]

This should go under the forum "Rate the Daylease"

[tyak]

Maybe the feeder deal, but why is no drinking beer outside camp a crazy rule?

If you had a ranch would you want folks drinking beer (and throwing cans and bottles) out in the pasture?

It's the luck of the draw on pasture assignment and deer movement. It is a crap shoot, but a real chance at a great buck. Kinda like being ticked off if you go to vegas and lose money...expect it.

[Jamie]

“NO SHOOTING DOES!” Because of this rule, there were a million does on a 6,000 acre low fence ranch. They were literally watching us put up our blinds. Mike Palmer’s explanation for this was so that when the rut comes around , he can suck all the bucks in from the surrounding ranches.

How stupid is that....a buck doesn't have the cognizant ability to determine something over there...is better then here.. i.e. there are more does somewhere else.

He has his own summer and winter range and typically will not travel outside that..for food or to breed

[Fishndude]

How stupid is that....a buck doesn't have the cognizant ability to determine something over there...is better then here.. i.e. there are more does somewhere else.

He has his own summer and winter range and typically will not travel outside that..for food or to breed

I know this for certain. Mike Palmer is a classy individual who would never refer to another man's management of his deer herd as "stupid".

[bdchorn]

I've always been led to believe that the tighter the buck/doe ratio the better the rut as bucks are essentially forced to compete and are therefore more visible.

Not true? This would seem to be the exact opposite of the management plan described above.

Oh, and I'm not blasting Mike. Don't even know the man, but I'm never too old to learn.

So..........anyone know the answer or theories behind this?

[Fishndude]

I've always been led to believe that the tighter the buck/doe ratio the better the rut as bucks are essentially forced to compete and are therefore more visible.

Not true? This would seem to be the exact opposite of the management plan described above.

Oh, and I'm not blasting Mike. Don't even know the man, but I'm never too old to learn.

So..........anyone know the answer or theories behind this?

I know this. Mike's hunting operation is a low fence situation. I personally believe that he thinks he can "suck the bucks" from surrounding ranches. I also believe he wants all the does there so his hunters will report back to camp having "seen 10 deer" or whatever. He also believes/knows the MLD situation on surrounding ranches since most of the surrounding property belongs to the same gentleman.

[Bowwiz]

I seen some very nice bucks that were killed out there over the years,by TBH members.........

[bdchorn]

I know this. Mike's hunting operation is a low fence situation. I personally believe that he thinks he can "suck the bucks" from surrounding ranches. I also believe he wants all the does there so his hunters will report back to camp having "seen 10 deer" or whatever. He also believes/knows the MLD situation on surrounding ranches since most of the surrounding property belongs to the same gentleman.

Interesting. I can certainly see the value in the hunter reports. I don't want to hijack the thread but am interested in other opinions on "sucking in the bucks."

It could be happenstance but two years ago on my place we decided to take make a concerted effort to harvest as many of our allotted does before the rut as possible and it seemed to have a big impact for the better on the rut. That said, I can see the reasoning behind "sucking them in."

In any event, from what I could find Mike's place looks like a good one.

[Brian H]

Well, I've been to some day leases and never seen an animal. I would rather go and see 10 does a hunt and not bucks knowing they are around, and trust me they are around at First Point. He runs a classy operations with some strict rules. As many people that go there every year, he has to have rules or the place would not be any good. It is a very good place to hunt for the money. You have a legitimate chance at a really nice buck. As more Mike being jerk, you are wrong if you think that. He may not talk a lot or joke around a lot, but he is straight forward with you and will help you if you ask. If you tells you you should be hunting in a certain area, you can trust that he has seen and probably has video of a good deer there. I haven't always killed a deer or seen a shooter from my blind, but I always have a great hunt there. If you don't go back, that just means that I have a better chance of being drawn to go next year.

[Huntjunkie]

I have been to first point twice. IMHO it is been shot out or is close to it and the number of hunters allowed on the place is counter productive. I do not agree with the way it is run. The methods are counter to most known rules of fact and thumb in deer management. I did see a few good deer when I was there but not on pope and young. I have met Mike several times and Mike is a great guy.

P.S. this should be moved to rate the day lease.

[sweldo73]

I know this for certain. Mike Palmer is a classy individual who would never refer to another man's management of his deer herd as "stupid".

Mike may be a classy individual, but that doesn't mean it's not possible that he's flat out wrong on his management practice. Whether you agree or not with the word Jamie used, Jamie certainly has the credibilty to back up his opinion on Mike's management policies. Wouldn't you agree?

[Brian H]

As for the number of bucks on the place, there are plenty. I've heard both sides to the that style of management. It seems to work there.

[Brian H]

I would agree that you can't use the same management practices on a day lease that you use on your own or leased land. He has to keep as many deer in there as possible to keep his hunters happy. If you go to a day lease paying $150/day and expect to kill a 150 or 160 class deer, you aren't being realistic. First Point is one of the few places you can go and expect to see a good number of deer and have a chance to kill a p&y buck. I would hope that before you went on the hunt, that you looked at the website. All the rules are there. If you didn't like them, you shouldn't have gone.

[Hot4huntin]

This is my first booked hunt on a ranch. I have only hunted on leases, Sam Houston National Forest, and The South Texas Shootout.

I’m writing this to let everyone know what is going on over there at First Point. The guy in charge of the ranch is name Mike Palmer. Before me and my two friends Joe & Jesse got there, we asked around and was told that Mike Palmer was a real jerk with no sense of humor. We found out that this wasn’t all true. He seemed like an alright guy, but when we sat down he laid down all kinds of crazy rules. Some of these were, “no drinking beer outside the camp” & “no hunting within 100 yards of the feeders.” The biggest rule that effected the whole hunt was’ “NO SHOOTING DOES!” Because of this rule, there were a million does on a 6,000 acre low fence ranch. They were literally watching us put up our blinds. Mike Palmer’s explanation for this was so that when the rut comes around , he can suck all the bucks in from the surrounding ranches. When he said that, I thought to myself, “the other ranchers probably want to kick his ***!” Anyways….. The whole three day hunt, all I saw were about 30 does and a couple spikes. Needless to say that I’ll never go back. I did have a good time with my friends, but I’ll be haunted by does mocking me in my sleep for a little while. For the record: First Point Bowhunting ranch’s new name will forever be “The Doe Ranch.”

WARNING: Do not use popup blinds on this ranch. The deer (does) are super educated. It was so bad that my friend Jesse told me that when a doe approached him he could almost hear the doe tell her yearling, “look sweetie, that the new Double Bull Matrix.” Try to cut down brush to make your own blind, or you can use some of the existing brush blinds that were left by other hunters. If you look hard enough, you will find that there are plenty everywhere. Trust me. You won’t be fooling anyone with your, “high-speed, $300, scent control, crazy 3D camo, popup blind”

With all due respect, it sounds like you were not well prepared for the hunt. Had you visited First Point's website prior to your hunt, you would have found the Hunting Rules. Doesn't look like there would have been any surprises.

HUNTING RULES

Obey all state game laws.

This is a Bowhunting only ranch. No firearms or crossbows are allowed on the property.

No dull broadheads, stone points, or mechanical broadheads will be permitted to be used for hunting. KEEP your broadheads SHARP.

Only mature BUCKS may be harvested (3 ½ years old or older) any buck younger than 3 ½ years old that is harvested will carry a $500 FINE.

You are allowed the following harvest per hunt: only 1 mature buck, only 1 turkey, 1 hog per day of your hunt and any varmits. NO DOES AND NO JAVELINAS (no javelinas during whitetail season)

If you hit a deer, please come in and ask for tracking help. We will help you find it. WOUNDING RULE: If your deer is not found, that is the only deer you are allowed to hunt for the rest of your stay. You will not be allowed to shoot another deer. A hit = A harvest, so make your shots count.

No hunting within 100 yards of a deer feeder or 100 yards of a water tank.

DO NOT touch the feeders.

Use of ATV (four wheeler) is permitted on ranch roads only.

Keep driving to a minimum. Go only to your area on the ranch and back to camp. NO SIGHT SEEING! NO CHANGING PASTURES - HUNT YOUR ASSIGNED AREA ONLY!

Stay in your area while hunting. Do not cross any fences. If you disturb another hunter in his area you will be asked to pay for his entire hunt and vise versa.

Keep gates like you found them. Closed if they are closed and open if they are open.

Watch out for the cows. This is a working cattle ranch. We DO NOT have any control over the workers and their duties and hours.

NO driving from 30 minutes before sunrise until 9am and 4pm until dark.

No alcohol permitted in hunting areas. Keep it in the camp. No smoking in the camp house or hunting areas.

Do no litter. If you see litter, please pick it up.

Keep the camp and camp house clean, there are other hunters when you leave.

Keep all camp fires within the camp circle in the fire ring provided. Do not build fires outside this area.

No dogs allowed on the ranch.

TRASH: Take it home with you.

Do not waste game meat. If you do not want the meat, talk to Mike.

Pick a spot, shoot straight and have FUN!

IF YOU BREAK THE RULES – YOU MAY BE ASKED TO LEAVE THE RANCH AND YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED BACK.

I'm also curious if you checked back on the thread you originally started?

WE WERE 3 AMIGOS GOING TO HUNT THIS PLACE IN NOVEMBER, BUT THE BRAINS OF THE OPERATION TOOK A JOB WITH THE BORDER PATROL AND LEFT US 2 DUMBIES SCRATCHIN' OUR HEADS. I'M A ROOKIE AND MY OTHER BUDDY HAS HUNTED MANY TIMES BEFORE, BUT HE'S KINDA LOCO- IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN! IF YOU GOT ANY ADVISE, I'D REALLY APPRECIATE IT. THIS IS THE 1ST TIME I'M PAYING STRAIGHT UP TO HUNT AND I'M TRY TO BRING TO HORNS HOME, BABY!

http://74.53.173.50/discussions/forums/showthread.php?t=59031

The deer there are educated and know bowhunters, so your brush blind will have to be brushed in well.

Not only do you need to brush in your blind perfectly, you need to walk the road to look at your blind and make sure there is adequate cover from road to blind...all angles the deer will see when feeding down the road. Any larger opening in the brush will allow them to see even a 6" hole with shoot through mesh. They are very, very smart. "Brushing in" the mesquite and guajillo between blind and road to limit their view worked extremely well...3-D, I guess.

Be wise on how you corn...

Mike indicated to us that lots of doe are killed on the neighboring ranches, so that is one reason he chooses not to kill the does. They attract the bucks during the rut. Regardless of whether you agree with his management or not, the rules are available on the website at the time of booking and you could have chose not to book, if you wanted to kill does.

I saw a 150" class 10, an nice 8 that walked so close to me I could have jabbed him with an arrow, spikes and does. Even though I was unable to make a shot in 2 days of hunting, I saw lots of animals and had a couple of them come and eat corn within two FEET of me. A little effort in brushing your blind in well goes a long way. I really didn't enjoy spending two hours in mid-90 degree heat cutting, hauling and stacking thorny limbs, but that is what it took to get the animals close and personal.

Mike and Nancy were great hosts and have been running a successful bowhunting ranch for several years. When we were there, I believe they said it was completely booked for the remainder of the year. Many are repeat customers. There were two really nice bucks taken while we were there.

I'm sorry you were not able to take a buck while you were there, but I don't see how you can put the blame on Mike Palmer and/or First Point.