Anyone ever train a herding dog?

[MountainMan]

I'm a little in over my head and hope someone has some experience with herding dogs.

I've got a 10 month old blue heeler/red heeler (Jake) and I'd like to start training him to herd. We have cattle, sheep, and pigs and most days it's just me out there to move everyone and make sure they're all ok. He's been around all the critters since he was 9 weeks old so he's not afraid of them at all and he's about 80% on his basic obedience.

Anyone got any good places to start with teaching him to herd? He definitely has the drive, just not the know how to move them where i need them and i dont know how to teach a stubborn knucklehead. I'm used to teaching and training labs which was easy compared to this dude.

Thanks for any and all help!

[froghunter]

Contact dusty britches.

[BigDraw]

mine will fetch a downed dove, but not a beer. :0

[MountainMan]

Bump for the morning crowd

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

[highspeed]

Best of luck. I’ve got a half Australian Shepherd half Standard poodle and he herds my kids all the time. If he thinks they’ve run off far enough, he will herd them back. He’s gonna get his butt run over if he keeps trying to herd the 4 wheeler, though.

[Johnny Dangerr]

There are 3 ways do do stuff.
The right way.
The wrong way.
The Heeler way.

Good luck.................

[bowhuntertex]

All my good herding dogs were trained by other good herding dogs, they either got it or they don't.

[ranchdog]

Yep, trained a bunch of them both Aussies and Border collies. First off do not start him on cattle. You do not want his butt kicked right off. You can PM me and I will give you my email and or cell phone and we can talk. Too much to lay out right here. Here is one of my male BC that I trained. He is gone now though.

Here is a couple of books to start with

https://www.amazon.com/Herding-Dogs-Progressive-Vergil-Holland/dp/0876056443/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515072921&sr=8-1&keywords=herding+dogs+book

https://www.amazon.com/Lessons-stock-dog-training-guide/dp/B0006F81V4

You should get and learn to use a whistle for when you move to working stock at a distance but use it after your dog learns your voice commands

https://www.amazon.com/Acme-Shepherd-Mouth-Whistle-Plastic/dp/B008JGROTC/ref=pd_sim_199_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=A7QTRTV92QM16ZR29FZ1

Ranchdog

[flyinstroke]

I have trained about 10 or so herding dogs. A heeler has never been one of them. I did have a heeler that was a great driving dog. She would work great in alley ways and pens. She was never good in open space. She had the drive but her drive was always over drive if you know what I mean. I agree 100% with there being a right way, wrong way, and a heeler way. I am not saying it cant be done by any means. But it will not be an easy task. I have had Australian Shepherds, Catahoulas, and Border Collies. All of these herding breeds did well in open pastures but were nothing compared to the heeler when it came to the pens. Good luck with the training and dont give up!

[Geezy Rider]

With our heeler it wasn't a matter of training him, his instinct was very strong, it was about controlling his drive and passion.

[Silvey]

As stated, another dog that knows what's up would help a lot in training. They have the instinct already just a little guidance by a pro will do wonders.

[Acameron52]

Every working dog I’ve ever been around was raised around another older, more mature one to learn from. They’d basically get thrown out in the pastrure with one of the older dogs until they figured it out, or didn’t. That being said, heelers are hard headed as they come so it might take a good share of butt whoopings to get him on board.

[bowhuntertex]

Every working dog I’ve ever been around was raised around another older, more mature one to learn from. They’d basically get thrown out in the pastrure with one of the older dogs until they figured it out, or didn’t. That being said, heelers are hard headed as they come so it might take a good share of butt whoopings to get him on board.

This is exactly how all my heelers were trained.

[MountainMan]

Thanks for all the replies and help.

Ranchdog, I'll PM you and I'd love to pick your brain about herding and where to start with him.

I also 100% agree about there being a right way, wrong way, and a heeler way. He's a stubborn knucklehead most of the time but there are flashes of brilliance some days that make me want to keep going with him.

[Dusty Britches]

Yep, trained a bunch of them both Aussies and Border collies. First off do not start him on cattle. You do not want his butt kicked right off. You can PM me and I will give you my email and or cell phone and we can talk. Too much to lay out right here. Here is one of my male BC that I trained. He is gone now though.

Here is a couple of books to start with

https://www.amazon.com/Herding-Dogs-Progressive-Vergil-Holland/dp/0876056443/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1515072921&sr=8-1&keywords=herding+dogs+book

https://www.amazon.com/Lessons-stock-dog-training-guide/dp/B0006F81V4

You should get and learn to use a whistle for when you move to working stock at a distance but use it after your dog learns your voice commands

https://www.amazon.com/Acme-Shepherd-Mouth-Whistle-Plastic/dp/B008JGROTC/ref=pd_sim_199_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=A7QTRTV92QM16ZR29FZ1

Ranchdog

Ranchdog is spot on with these books.

My additional comments to what he said is, first, if your dog is showing a lot of grit, go ahead and start with mid weight calves. If not, wait until he is a full 12 months and start with mid weight calves. (500 pounds)

Also, in my opinion, it is best to always set up your training sessions for the dog to succeed. And to do that, you should work in a controlled environment such as pens and not open pasture. I also feel the dog's preliminary training should come from me and not another dog. I'm the pack leader, not the other dog(s).

A heeler's natural inclination will be to drive so you will need to focus on stopping and turning the herd. I have a Lacy and his natural inclination is to stop and turn - head. We focused on driving and used the heading as a reward to keep excitement up.

I could type way more stuff but I do not have as much experience as some others. I've trained 2 Lacys and studied a trainer's methods for Aussies.