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Old 01-10-2017, 09:48 PM   #51
blacksunshine
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many of the ones that shouldn't be carrying today are carrying today without a permit anyway
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:06 PM   #52
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Felons have lost that constitutional right. If you're a law abiding non-felon then people should be able to protect themselves. Whatever that means. Especially these days with all the crazy crap going on in this country. Prime example just happened in Florida at that airport. The whacko was the only one with a gun. How many people died waiting on someone with a gun to stop a man with a gun. That's what the 2nd amendment is to me these days And any law restricting it should be viewed the same as any law restricting freedom of speech. Yet it is not! A CHL is only a way for the government to regulate or control your rights. You don't need a license to speak. You shouldn't need a license to carry.

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Old 01-10-2017, 10:36 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Arrowslinger1 View Post
Felons have lost that constitutional right. If you're a law abiding non-felon then people should be able to protect themselves. Whatever that means. Especially these days with all the crazy crap going on in this country. Prime example just happened in Florida at that airport. The whacko was the only one with a gun. How many people died waiting on someone with a gun to stop a man with a gun. That's what the 2nd amendment is to me these days And any law restricting it should be viewed the same as any law restricting freedom of speech. Yet it is not! A CHL is only a way for the government to regulate or control your rights. You don't need a license to speak. You shouldn't need a license to carry.


I agree.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:42 PM   #54
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I don't have a CHL license and never will. I do have the 2nd amendment.
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:55 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Arrowslinger1 View Post
Felons have lost that constitutional right. If you're a law abiding non-felon then people should be able to protect themselves. Whatever that means. Especially these days with all the crazy crap going on in this country. Prime example just happened in Florida at that airport. The whacko was the only one with a gun. How many people died waiting on someone with a gun to stop a man with a gun. That's what the 2nd amendment is to me these days And any law restricting it should be viewed the same as any law restricting freedom of speech. Yet it is not! A CHL is only a way for the government to regulate or control your rights. You don't need a license to speak. You shouldn't need a license to carry.
X2!
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Old 01-10-2017, 10:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Arrowslinger1 View Post
Felons have lost that constitutional right. If you're a law abiding non-felon then people should be able to protect themselves. Whatever that means. Especially these days with all the crazy crap going on in this country. Prime example just happened in Florida at that airport. The whacko was the only one with a gun. How many people died waiting on someone with a gun to stop a man with a gun. That's what the 2nd amendment is to me these days And any law restricting it should be viewed the same as any law restricting freedom of speech. Yet it is not! A CHL is only a way for the government to regulate or control your rights. You don't need a license to speak. You shouldn't need a license to carry.
I agree, but the 2nd amendment is so much more than just self defense even today.

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Old 01-10-2017, 11:07 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
I don't have a CHL license and never will. I do have the 2nd amendment.


In theory I agree 100% with you.

In reality don't get caught carrying a handgun on your person without one.


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Old 01-10-2017, 11:08 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by RMW View Post
Not much to learn in a CHL class


Wow. Didn't realize we had so many penal code experts on here.

Who knew?!


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Old 01-10-2017, 11:29 PM   #59
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A few of you have more faith in humanity than I do. There's a bunch of people in this world that just don't have a clue. A couple of the people in my 15 member class this last Sunday didn't pass the shooting portion for GOOD reason, they were just awful! No business with a firearm...
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:37 PM   #60
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A few of you have more faith in humanity than I do. There's a bunch of people in this world that just don't have a clue. A couple of the people in my 15 member class this last Sunday didn't pass the shooting portion for GOOD reason, they were just awful! No business with a firearm...


So just because someone isn't a proficient shooter nullifies their constitutional right to own and carry a handgun?




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Old 01-10-2017, 11:41 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
So just because someone isn't a proficient shooter nullifies their constitutional right to own and carry a handgun?




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In public, yes.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:45 PM   #62
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Would you want horrible shooters, that maybe never shot a round ever from their handgun carrying around you!? Because there were a couple folks just like that trying to get their CHL. I think it should stay mandatory just for the shooting portion, just to see if you could hit water if you fell out of the boat, otherwise everyone is in danger if **** goes down.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:49 PM   #63
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In public, yes.


That's just ignorant. What other rights do you feel should be given up ? 1st amendment for someone that doesn't speak well? It must suck to be so afraid of your fellow man.

The chance of any CHL or any regular person carrying at all having to actually pull and use their weapon is nearly non existent.


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Old 01-10-2017, 11:59 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
That's just ignorant. What other rights do you feel should be given up ? 1st amendment for someone that doesn't speak well? It must suck to be so afraid of your fellow man.

The chance of any CHL or any regular person carrying at all having to actually pull and use their weapon is nearly non existent.


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Flame on man... just my 2 cents. I just feel safer with the way the law is now, that all CHL personnel passed a basic shooting course.

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Old 01-11-2017, 12:02 AM   #65
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So you knew the penal code laws regarding trespassing and deadly force before your class?

I have no shame admitting I didn't. Before your class did you do due diligence to keep up with new laws regarding these items? I didn't.

To say the class is a joke is disingenuous. I don't believe the shooting qualification shoot even be a requirement. They should do nothing more than teach you the laws.


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Yes actually I did because I did my research well ahead of time as should everyone else. I have sat through two different ones and while yes Rey covered the laws and he penal code there is a lot more in depth info then is covered in any class


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Old 01-11-2017, 12:10 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by jimmyjams4110 View Post
A few of you have more faith in humanity than I do. There's a bunch of people in this world that just don't have a clue. A couple of the people in my 15 member class this last Sunday didn't pass the shooting portion for GOOD reason, they were just awful! No business with a firearm...


So just screw those folks second amendment rights huh!?


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Old 01-11-2017, 12:45 AM   #67
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Im assuming JimmyJams is a LTC instructor by his posts. This might explain his view on the subject.

So should we require a proficiency test yearly? Every 2, 3, 5, etc years? There are a lot of chl holders that havent even shot their gun since getting their license 7-10 years ago! should anyone who carries including my 75 year old grandma be able to hit the 10 ring every shot from 25 yards away before they can carry? When I took my class, there were 6 people who had never shot a pistol in their life. They rented a gun to shoot for the test. All passed. I have no doubt that any of them could protect themselves. All it took was a min or two with the instructor.

This isnt hollywood! the vast majority of Self defence situations happen at a distance of just a few feet, not shootouts across a street.



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Old 01-11-2017, 12:50 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Ragin' View Post
So just screw those folks second amendment rights huh!?


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To carry a loaded weapon in a movie theater with me, my two girls, and my wife, absolutely. If you can't hit the target from 7 yards out, you shouldn't be able to carry a weapon in a public place with me and my family. I know I'm opening up myself to ridicule, but **** it. I want to carry, I like the 2nd amendment, so I practiced with my firearm, a lot, and passed the course, took fingerprints today, and will have my LTC in no time, it's not that big of a deal!

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Old 01-11-2017, 12:56 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by fishingsetx View Post
Im assuming JimmyJams is a LTC instructor by his posts. This might explain his view on the subject.

So should we require a proficiency test yearly? Every 2, 3, 5, etc years? There are a lot of chl holders that havent even shot their gun since getting their license 7-10 years ago! should anyone who carries including my 75 year old grandma be able to hit the 10 ring every shot from 25 yards away before they can carry? When I took my class, there were 6 people who had never shot a pistol in their life. They rented a gun to shoot for the test. All passed. I have no doubt that any of them could protect themselves. All it took was a min or two with the instructor.

This isnt hollywood! the vast majority of Self defence situations happen at a distance of just a few feet, not shootouts across a street.



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I'm not. I just have a recent reminder that everyone doesn't have the background and knowledge as the people here do with regards to firearms and how to use them. Education, no matter how small isn't a bad thing.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:58 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by jimmyjams4110 View Post
To carry a loaded weapon in a movie theater with me, my two girls, and my wife, absolutely. If you can't hit the target from 7 yards out, you shouldn't be able to carry a weapon in a public place with me and my family. I know I'm opening up myself to ridicule, but **** it. I want to carry, I like the 2nd amendment, so I practiced with my firearm, a lot, and passed the course, took fingerprints today, and will have my CHL in no time, it's not that big of a deal!





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Old 01-11-2017, 04:50 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by jimmyjams4110 View Post
To carry a loaded weapon in a movie theater with me, my two girls, and my wife, absolutely. If you can't hit the target from 7 yards out, you shouldn't be able to carry a weapon in a public place with me and my family. I know I'm opening up myself to ridicule, but **** it. I want to carry, I like the 2nd amendment, so I practiced with my firearm, a lot, and passed the course, took fingerprints today, and will have my LTC in no time, it's not that big of a deal!
Ummm... you're missing the point entirely.

You want to have a vetting process for constitutional rights.

How many times do you see someone draw their weapon in public? How many times have you seen someone use it?

If you ever did use your weapon, chances are it's within 3 yards. You should have learned that in your class...

Second point... in that situation, you may be a horrible shot at 7 yards. Ever been in a shootout?
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:53 AM   #72
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^^^^^Ditto

I also don't think a biz owner should have to do all that 30.06 and 30.07 mess.
Just a simple NO GUNS ALLOWED sign should suffice
Just like a simple NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO SERVICE sign suffices.
I don't care if you carry, just don't do it in MY STORE

If I had a dog and a business had a NO PETS/DOGS sign then I just wouldn't bring my dog there

If I had service dog I would walk right by that sign everytime. Now if the business told me no service dogs, I would respect that

Same situation as a 3006/3007 for me
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:58 AM   #73
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Would you want horrible shooters, that maybe never shot a round ever from their handgun carrying around you!? Because there were a couple folks just like that trying to get their CHL. I think it should stay mandatory just for the shooting portion, just to see if you could hit water if you fell out of the boat, otherwise everyone is in danger if **** goes down.

Think the gangbanger that is in that movie theater with you took a shooting class?
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:49 AM   #74
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I'm all for it, it's our constitutional right to carry but the Feds left it up to the states to decide.

Having a permit solves nothing and makes NO ONE safer. It only generates revenue for the state and makes Law Abiding people jump through hoops.

The bad guys aren't worried about a carry permit...heck most of them can't legally own a weapon...
^^^ This is my opinion regarding the subject as well. I agree 100%......... that permit doesn't make you better/safer than the next guy, it just means you went to a class and learned things your daddy shoulda taught you when you were a pup.........
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:17 AM   #75
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If you have taken the class you know what a joke it is anyway
^^^^^^ This x 1000
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:30 AM   #76
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All in... Arizona has it, lived there for 3 years and saw a hand full of people carrying and no gun fights in the streets. You can conceal or open carry with no license. You can choose to get a license, and if you do, when you buy a gun it takes about 5-10 minutes instead of 20-30 minutes.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:36 AM   #77
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A license to carry is nothing more than a tax on a constitutional right.
And business is good!!!
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:46 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
So you knew the penal code laws regarding trespassing and deadly force before your class?

I have no shame admitting I didn't. Before your class did you do due diligence to keep up with new laws regarding these items? I didn't.

To say the class is a joke is disingenuous. I don't believe the shooting qualification shoot even be a requirement. They should do nothing more than teach you the laws.


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Agreed X2. But also, no one claims the shooting portion is designed to test marksmanship ability. It's intended to verify that a person can at least manipulate a firearm successfully: load, unload, safety on, safety off, fire, etc.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:53 AM   #79
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"Shall not be infringed"....
Licensing is an infringement

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Imagine if the right to vote had been regulated with licensing, how much of an uproar there would be. The uproar over simply requiring an ID is already comical. Both are rights recognized under the constitution yet they are regulated differently. Doesn't make much sense. Both should be allowed in the same manner.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:57 AM   #80
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Imagine if the right to vote had been regulated with licensing, how much of an uproar there would be. The uproar over simply requiring an ID is already comical. Both are rights recognized under the constitution yet they are regulated differently. Doesn't make much sense. Both should be allowed in the same manner.
There actually used to be a poll tax. It didn't go over so well.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:58 AM   #81
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I agree, but the 2nd amendment is so much more than just self defense even today.

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absolutely agree...historically and presently have way more meaning that just what I quoted. When they regulate my rights, I definitely have an answer provided by the 2nd amendment was my point.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:06 AM   #82
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Freedom isn't very popular these days...
I'm all for more freedom, but having people just allowed to carry that don't know how to shoot or have any practice is scary. We don't need morons carrying guns and I feel the class should be more intense, cause people passed that didn't hit the target?! I don't want my family being anywhere near someone who doesn't understand how a gun functions in that situation.

I do feel that once you have your permit, you are allowed to carry anywhere in the state. Doesn't matter if they sell alcohol, police department, or governors mansion. If you are a law abiding citizen you don't plan on breaking laws whereas a criminal by nature does and might carry a gun in those areas regardless.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:49 AM   #83
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I'm all for more freedom, but having people just allowed to carry that don't know how to shoot or have any practice is scary. We don't need morons carrying guns and I feel the class should be more intense, cause people passed that didn't hit the target?! I don't want my family being anywhere near someone who doesn't understand how a gun functions in that situation.

I do feel that once you have your permit, you are allowed to carry anywhere in the state. Doesn't matter if they sell alcohol, police department, or governors mansion. If you are a law abiding citizen you don't plan on breaking laws whereas a criminal by nature does and might carry a gun in those areas regardless.
Id rather 10 untrained citizens with a gun than 100 unarmed victims in a mass shooting incident. As for personal self defense, the proximity is so close that being am expert marksman isnt needed. How many lives have been saved by untrained civilians who happened to have a gun?

You cant legislate a right and forcing a training class on someone to exercise that right should be illegal! Imagine if you had to pay for a license, training class, background check,fingerprints etc to vote and voting can have much further reaching consequences than carrying a handgun for personal protection!

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Old 01-11-2017, 11:54 AM   #84
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So many states with Const carry with NO HISTORY of problems & here we are again just like when OC was coming of how Texas was coming to an end.

Personally, I think we have way more folks that don't have enough sense to vote vs carry a gun!!

Again, Freedom is no longer looked upon as a good thing...better regulate it.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:59 AM   #85
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So many states with Const carry with NO HISTORY of problems & here we are again just like when OC was coming of how Texas was coming to an end.

Personally, I think we have way more folks that don't have enough sense to vote vs carry a gun!!

Again, Freedom is no longer looked upon as a good thing...better regulate it.
So sad some people don't get it. It's that whole freedom and security thing. And the security is only imaginary.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:37 PM   #86
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People are condition to give away God given rights these days .
What God given rights do you speak of? Carrying a handgun? I don't think God has anything to do with it.

Closest you're going to get on that is that God fearing men created our Constitution.

I'm all for Constitutional Carry. If it is legal for you to purchase a handgun then good deal carry it even if you're too stupid to pass a CHL class.

And for those, and there are many, who would never be able to understand the laws concerning deadly force, I hope that they can at least afford an attorney so we don't have to pay for one to be provided for them with our tax dollars.

You know the type, the ones who will let them fall out of their pocket and it goes off in a restaurant or movie theater where you and your family are. Or the ones who perceive a threat and shoot someone because they were "scared" but the other person wasn't armed.

I don't mind laws that make sense. Without laws chaos reigns. I look back at when I wore a badge and think of some of the people that I had to deal with who would be able to carry legally only if Constitutional Carry passes and shudder at the thought.

I hope it passes so I don't have to pay for my CHL but boys and girls you all know people who you wouldn't trust behind you with a gun and they will be there if and when it passes.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:46 PM   #87
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Freedom isn't very popular these days...
Expound on that a bit if you would.

If someone isn't comfortable with certain people carrying a handgun you spout off that they don't like "freedom".

A lot of those folks fought for this country and the freedoms that it offers so I'm a bit confused as to your thought processing.

We have CHL's we have open carry already and maybe Constitutional Carry.

So do you want to do away with the background checks we have to go through to purchase a handgun? I'm for it, we didn't have it before 1968. My Dad used to buy all types of guns through the old Shotgun News from people and they would ship via railroad to the local station. I would love to be able to do that myself!

I mean after all, making us go through background checks infringes upon our 2nd Amendment rights.

Right?
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:53 PM   #88
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Driving is a privelige, not a right. The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution says being armed is a right. Maybe after a person buys a gun, he/she has 60 days to get voluntary training or tickets get issued. I don't know, just spitballing here.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:02 PM   #89
BowDude
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I am a CHL instructor. There is another bill that reduces the cost significantly and another one that eliminates the cost altogether; but, a class is still required. I see several on here that say the class is a joke and didn't learn anything.... Maybe you guys already knew the laws in detail... It is scary to me all of the people that came into class not realizing the laws broken when a firearm is even removed from your holster - all the way to actually taking another life (which is a homicide)... Based on the 1000+ people that have gone through my classes over the years, I think that as a whole, it is good thing for a class to be required. I don't mind if the cost of the license if $0.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:14 PM   #90
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Agree with the argument that a CHL is a demarcation point for easily pulling stats on legal carry v. gun crimes. However, the government requiring any type of permit to carry a gun is a slippery slope and 30.06 and 30.07 signs are clearly unconstitutional in my opinion. If a private business wants to request that nobody carries a gun into their establishment fine, but having a tool that makes it illegal to carry is an infringement upon my individual right to choose how and where I'd like to protect my family.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:36 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson05 View Post
Agree with the argument that a CHL is a demarcation point for easily pulling stats on legal carry v. gun crimes. However, the government requiring any type of permit to carry a gun is a slippery slope and 30.06 and 30.07 signs are clearly unconstitutional in my opinion. If a private business wants to request that nobody carries a gun into their establishment fine, but having a tool that makes it illegal to carry is an infringement upon my individual right to choose how and where I'd like to protect my family.
Use the drive through or don't go in. Still your choice. You don't like the business model, stay out and support another.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:39 PM   #92
fishingsetx
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We heard some of the same old arguments when OC was proposed and im sure it was the same with CC. Crazies with guns, innocent people being shot, blood in the streets etc, etc, etc. Is this happening everyday in the other 12 states where constitutional carry is legal? I highly doubt it because if it is, it would be all over the news! It amazes me how little faith Texans have in other Texans!

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Old 01-11-2017, 01:40 PM   #93
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Interesting fact from my class a few days ago. It is illegal to have a gun in the parking lot of a post office. Not just the premises, the dang parking lot to. Never knew that.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:41 PM   #94
lovemylegacy
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Originally Posted by Drycreek3189 View Post
I'm not a fan of jumping through hoops in order to defend my life and those of my family. The founders never intended anything more out of a free people than to protect you and yours. Obviously, criminals have no license. Aren't we at least as good as them ?
Agreed
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:52 PM   #95
TXJIM
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Mike D, I find your arguments a little confusing. To summarize, you feel that a class should be mandatory to practice our constitutional right under the 2A but shooting proficiency should not be a requirement. Is that correct?

If so, do you see how your arguments are in conflict in this case? The constitutional right is either absolute or its not. You aregue as though it's absolute in the case of a shooting requirement but turn around and advocate for a mandatory class. You seem to want it both ways simply because you learned something about Texas Penal code that you didn't already know when you took the class. You do realize that the penal code is a public document, right? Anyone can access and read it any time they want.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:59 PM   #96
Goldeneagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjams4110 View Post
Interesting fact from my class a few days ago. It is illegal to have a gun in the parking lot of a post office. Not just the premises, the dang parking lot to. Never knew that.
Where have you been? I've never taken the class and knew that.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:01 PM   #97
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Quote:
It amazes me how little faith Texans have in other Texans!
You really need to get out more.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:01 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Goldeneagle View Post
Where have you been? I've never taken the class and knew that.
Your Avatar couldn't have been more appropriate.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:02 PM   #99
fishingsetx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjams4110 View Post
Interesting fact from my class a few days ago. It is illegal to have a gun in the parking lot of a post office. Not just the premises, the dang parking lot to. Never knew that.
Federal vs state property. when you are dealing with federal entities/property, state laws go out the window in most cases.

There are a ton of odd ball laws concerning LTC even at the state level. One that comes to mind:

30.06 does NOT have to be posted at every enterance to be valid. 30.07 does.



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Last edited by fishingsetx; 01-11-2017 at 02:04 PM..
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:10 PM   #100
fishingsetx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tx_Wader View Post
You really need to get out more.
Lol,

Since 1/1/16,

How many guns have been jerked off someone's hip?

how many MWAG calls have been made to LEO's,

how many OC'ers have been shot first by criminals?

How many duels at high noon?

How many times have officers stopped OC'ers just because they were carrying?

These were all hot point arguments for not allowing OC in Texas, and just like in other states, it just hasnt happened.

Same will go for Constitutional Carry.

Explain to me why it wont work here when it works just fine in 12 other states? What makes Texas so different from the rest?

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