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Old 12-07-2010, 08:19 PM   #51
Bowtechlady
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Thanks Draco for the great write up and explanation. Hopefully, we will get a chance to try it this weekend. This is something I should have tried when I first made the switch. I used to be really good at judging distances. I haven't even thought about distances in a few years.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:55 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one2bowhunt View Post
Sounds good to me! Perhaps we can figure out a way to get Bob out of Gtown to go shoot.
If you are talking about Draco I have it figured out.
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:22 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
As a first thought, Gtsticker, I would say yes on gapping with one eye closed. I have a friend that is a retired game warden that is right handed but left eyed. I showed him how to gap shoot and he loves it. He shoots way better than he ever has before and says he will never change.

On another note though, if you target shoot, it will be no problem at all. In hunting I can see where it wouldn't be as good. If all you do is sit in a stand and shoot deer with their head down in the corn, then it shouldn't be a problem. If you walk and hunt as in hunting the western states or walk hunting hogs or if you take a walking or trotting shot I would think having both eyes open would be paramount to success. You need the other eye for depth of field as well as gauging things that matter around the animal such as other animal action at the time you are about to shoot. With one eye closed it might be hard to do. That said, it hasn't bothered my friend Gary at all to shoot one eye closed and he says he wouldn't shoot any other way.

So it will work but might need to be practiced with to determine if it will work for you. Try it and see and good luck with it.
Thanks for the info I have an older bow at my dads I am going to try it over the holidays. When I shot instictive I would have to "aim" a foot low and a foot to 18 to the right to hit anything because of my eyes. Never knew why just knew that is where I needed to shoot. Can not wait to try this.
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:00 PM   #54
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Thanks for the lesson
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:16 PM   #55
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gtsticker, if you ever want to come out and shoot here, you are more than welcome to come. I have lots of bows and lots of arrows you can try and we will see if the gap works for you. If it doesn't I have several friends around who shoot instinctive that can help you as well. Just PM me and let me know.
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:53 PM   #56
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I just spent an hour trying this out.........grrrrrrrrr.

At long yardage it seems to work pretty well for me. 25 and in I think I am concentrating to much on "aiming".

It did get me out in the yard with a stick and string again, and for that thanks a bunch!
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:56 PM   #57
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I gave this a shot today and with time working on an anchor point I'm comfortable with I can see this being a good way to shoot for me. But why does the bow sound so much louder when shooting 3 under than split finger? I adjusted my knock point up all the way to 1" and worked my way down with no effect on the noise. Is there something else Im missing? Maybe my release?

Matt
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:59 PM   #58
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There is nothing you can do about it, 3 under is just louder. I could be wrong.
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:06 PM   #59
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Quote:
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There is nothing you can do about it, 3 under is just louder. I could be wrong.
Deb is not wrong. 3-under release is noticably louder than split fingered release.

Bisch
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:17 PM   #60
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That sucks. I guess I'll need to weigh the benefits out versus the increase of noise. Shooting split finger and instictive has been working ok for me, but I tend to have a wild flier now and again. Usually high or low. This system would eliminate that. What to do, what to do. Thanks for the replies.

Matt
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:24 PM   #61
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Begging your pardon, but I don't think any system will eliminate a wild flyer once in a while. We all have them.
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:36 PM   #62
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3 under is a little bit noisier than one over but not much. If it is much louder then you are probably not pulling with even pressure on your fingers. With three fingers under and fairly even pressure on them, your bottom finger will not be on the string as much as the others.

Most 3 under shooters that have a loud bow have the string pulled straight instead of at the angle that makes it in line with the bow's bottom limb tip. Look at the picture showing my anchor and you can see what I mean. If you have the string pulled to straight through your fingers then it will have to snap back into alignment at the release putting extreme downward pull on the back of the arrow. That is why some people have to move their nock point way higher than for one over, to compensate for their grip on the bow string, but it doesn't help with the noise problem. The nock on my string is not any higher than most one over shooters, 3/8 to 1/2", and I have no problem with string ducking deer.

So try the change in string grip and see if that helps you out any.
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:37 PM   #63
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Oh, and don't listen to Bisch about noise. He is about as hard of hearing as I am.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:18 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
Oh, and don't listen to Bisch about noise. He is about as hard of hearing as I am.
That's how I KNOW the noise is real. If I can hear it it then it is loud enough to be an issue to some people.

Bisch
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Old 12-10-2010, 02:31 PM   #65
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I think I understand what your saying and I do believe I'm pulling straight. I'll work on that. Thanks! Does it seem strange that my point on is 20 yards? I'm shooting a 49#@28" bow with 565gr arrows. From what I've read and the DVD's I've watch so far it seems that 30 or 40 yards seems to be a normal point on. ???

Thanks,
Matt
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:23 PM   #66
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Lots of great tips....getting better.

Why in the world did I ever pick up a wheel bow?
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:15 PM   #67
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No surprise on your point on, Matt. My B-I-L's is the same. It just depends on how high you anchor on your face.
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:18 PM   #68
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Good to know. Thanks for posting this, and thanks for answering my questions. It's been very helpfull.

Matt
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:04 AM   #69
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i did a little shooting today w/ an older glove of mine, which is ALOT thinner than my Neet glove. i noticed that release noise went down a noticeable amount but i am not able to shoot for near as long due to finger fatigue from the missing material that my fingers are used to having. i may switch to the smaller glove and just shoot less rounds, or space them out a little more. i will keep you guys posted on this, as ive heard from reading the thread that a few of you are having the same release noise problem.
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:41 AM   #70
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ttt for those interested in learning the gap shooting method.
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Old 08-26-2011, 12:11 PM   #71
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Since I have been away from archery for 3 years and am working up the nerve to get back in it, this looks like something I want to try. Would you mind giving the dimentions of the cardboard, my SWAG is 2'x4'.
Thanks
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Old 08-26-2011, 12:22 PM   #72
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I could be wrong, but I don't think that is big enough.
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Old 08-28-2011, 07:09 AM   #73
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Bump to keep it high in the list and maybe get an answer. Deb, what would be your guess? I was going by the bow in the first picture.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:12 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentstk View Post
Bump to keep it high in the list and maybe get an answer. Deb, what would be your guess? I was going by the bow in the first picture.
Imo 4x4 would be about ideal, you could get by with 4'tall and 3'wide.
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:54 AM   #75
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Ok, really like the idea of this method and think it fits my brain more easily, I do basic physics problems for fun, and it very very good for foam and stand hunting. I was playing with this yesterday and can't seem to keep both eyes open. Bad form I know, but when I do my brain does cheetah flips. I'm very right eye/hand dominant. Any suggestions?
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:27 PM   #76
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The size of the card board only has to be 3' x 3' if you are shooting 3 under but needs to be taller if you shoot one over as your gaps would be more. When you try this, remember to keep your eye on the target. Don't let your eye wander to looking at the arrow point. You put the point where it needs to be using your secondary vision. This is the way Howard Hill shot and he called it some thing fancy like secondary line of sight or some thing like that. Bob Wesley shot this way as well and won the first world long bow tournament. Bob said he could actually put an orange dot on the back stop where he needed to put the arrow point, in his mind. I can't do that and actually don't think about a measurement from center to put my arrow point. I just draw and the point goes to where it needs to be for the correct distance, during the draw. The shot is away almost the instance I slide into my anchor.

TWP, closing the eye works just great with this method but when I try it I tend to hold at draw longer to line up the shot. I think I try to be more precise with one eye closed. I always do it one eye closed if I'm shooting some one elses bow that I've never shot before. My friend Gary Turner, has to shoot one eye closed as he is left dominant. He draws both eyes open. Just before he hits his anchor, the left eye closes, he hits anchor and the shot is away. This is some thing he had to work out to make this method work for him and believe me, you do not want him shooting at you, at any range.
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:51 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draco View Post
It doesn't change between points because with a high anchor you don't see the point but the end of the round part of the arrow. Hold an arrow up to your cheek bone and look at the end. You'll see what I mean.
Good explanation of gap shooting. I shoot like this, only canted. This is a bit more difficult because you have to figure out a method for achieving the same cant and draw length each time.

As you pointed out, the gaps may not change much with different points, but they will change with different arrows - for example going from carbons to woods, and they will change with different bows, more so if they are not the same draw weight. It's all about consistency in practice in order to imprint the pattern in your subconscious...just like swinging a golf club or tennis racket.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:15 PM   #78
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To the top for a great read... Thanks Draco!

I started out gap shooting, I guess it came from many years of using sights. The card board is a great idea for beginners, like mentioned once point on is figured out there is very little thinking going on. There's only four choices; real close, kinda close, just right, then aim a little high.

For the real new folks, nothing works well until your bow is tuned to your arrows! Thanks again.
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Old 01-18-2012, 03:34 PM   #79
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this was good reading, bump to the top for us "newbies"
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Old 01-18-2012, 03:57 PM   #80
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Great ancor photo Bob
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:19 PM   #81
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Draco, I shoot 3 under and use the gap method. I draw around 27"s and 49-50#s with 500-515grain arrows. My point on is 20yds. Obviously a longer draw length and heavier poundage bow will give you a further point on, however I really thought having the heavier arrow also might wash this theory out. Am I really just a little dense on my thinking?
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:28 PM   #82
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Quote:
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Draco, I shoot 3 under and use the gap method. I draw around 27"s and 49-50#s with 500-515grain arrows. My point on is 20yds. Obviously a longer draw length and heavier poundage bow will give you a further point on, however I really thought having the heavier arrow also might wash this theory out. Am I really just a little dense on my thinking?
No your not trad doc. there are alot of things that go into gap. thats why each archer has to do what draco did and learn their gaps. a buddy of mine shoots 50# @ 29" uses a full length arrow 510gr and is point on at 26 yards. he has to hold 36" above the target at 40 yards. everyone will have to find out their own gaps.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:02 PM   #83
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This is exactly how I shoot! Great Explanation
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:20 PM   #84
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Just so every one knows, Rotag was the brave soul that took the picture of me at anchor. He trusts my shooting even more than I do.
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:25 PM   #85
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If you are going to shoot gap . you can shoot and find your POINT ON distance and use this to get you real close on your gaps. Just fill in the blanks. I checked this for accuracy by shooting my gaps and it was within an inch for me at all distances out to my Point On . Cant shoot the longer shots at home but I will check the farther shots this weekend.
It does also give to a few handy pieces of info like KE and KE/DW . which will let you know if there is an issue with your setup.

http://www.outdoorsden.com/archery/archbal.asp
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:05 PM   #86
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This method of shooting has cost me several nocks... I took out all of my bows and found spot on, and it did cost me a trip to Academy to get some more nocks.

I took each bow and put a spot on below (some right and some to the left) the target between 6" to 10" below the point of aim and I am more deadly than ever I am ready for 3D!!!!
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Old 01-18-2012, 11:35 PM   #87
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I shot about 50 arrows this afternoon using the draco method of gap. Point on at 30 yds. I shot three under and could not hit a barn. Went to split and did much better. I had 3 arrows 29 to back of point and 2 at 30 to back of point. every thing makes a differance best I can tell. I could figure this out easy enough if only I could see. Its like wearing bifocals but with some practice I might be able to do it.

Last edited by Selfbowman; 01-18-2012 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:03 AM   #88
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Thanks Gene!
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:15 AM   #89
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this will make you have to be good at judging yardages in all terrains in all situations.... too complicated.

haha trust me when I say there are systems just as accurate out there with very little need to "judge" the yardages.

but i'm keeping my mouth shut lol
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:19 AM   #90
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Trad Doc, it doesn't make any difference what poundage you shoot if the arrows weigh the same per pound of bow weight. Your shooting about 10 grains per pound and so am I. Even though my bow pulls more, it should shoot about the same trajectory as yours, mine will just have more punch to it down range.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:23 AM   #91
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every bow and arrow combination is going to have different gaps..

hell even different point weights and feather length changes effect gaps...

tiller changes change gaps

brace height changes change gaps

string changes change gaps....

even shooting glove or tab changes in brands, thicknesses, etc. change gaps

when you're trying to shoot that perfect shot, all things must be taken into consideration as they all will have an impact on...well...where you impact.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:28 AM   #92
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not getting the gap you want?

if you're looking to tighten the gap and give you greater arrow acquisition in your "sight picture" come up one or two fingers in relation to your face with your anchoring finger to bring it closer to your line of sight or under your eye...


love how your bow shoots but can't reach those farther targets? change to index finger to the corner of your mouth or go down a finger in relation to your face and your "index" or arch of your shot will change and open up your gaps some.

typically from the coaching and shooting I've done... for most bows the average change in point of impact is between 6-8" up or down depending on which finger your change over to at 20 yards
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:29 AM   #93
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oh yeah...and grip changes on your bow of any kind will also change your gaps..



so keep all this in mind when shooting and changing things on your bow. Just like a fire arm or a compound, when shooting this method it is always advised to "re-sight" in your bow!
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:31 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trick View Post
I think I understand what your saying and I do believe I'm pulling straight. I'll work on that. Thanks! Does it seem strange that my point on is 20 yards? I'm shooting a 49#@28" bow with 565gr arrows. From what I've read and the DVD's I've watch so far it seems that 30 or 40 yards seems to be a normal point on. ???

Thanks,
Matt
are you short or have a short draw length? at that weight... for the average shooter if you're shooting an arrow roughly 10 grains or a little heavier per lb of draw weight and are shooting your middle finger as your anchor point in your mouth...

no matter the bow.. if that's how many grains per lb of arrow weight you're shooting in relation to your draw weight that sounds normal.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:37 AM   #95
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Quote:
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not getting the gap you want?

if you're looking to tighten the gap and give you greater arrow acquisition in your "sight picture" come up one or two fingers in relation to your face with your anchoring finger to bring it closer to your line of sight or under your eye...


love how your bow shoots but can't reach those farther targets? change to index finger to the corner of your mouth or go down a finger in relation to your face and your "index" or arch of your shot will change and open up your gaps some.

typically from the coaching and shooting I've done... for most bows the average change in point of impact is between 6-8" up or down depending on which finger your change over to at 20 yards

Just dont change your anchor in a 3D tourney or you could be disqualified. Alot of organizations dont allow string or face walking. Ryan where have you been?
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:45 AM   #96
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Dude! Thank you so much for that.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:35 PM   #97
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Quote:
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Just dont change your anchor in a 3D tourney or you could be disqualified. Alot of organizations dont allow string or face walking. Ryan where have you been?
That's right! Check the rules! If you can't allow you changing your anchor point, DON'T! Bold faced cheating when it's in the rules and you do it! No string walking and FACE WALKING! Keeping your fingers in contact with the nock but climbing through your fingers is considered face walking...

keep this in mind when choosing the right finger to use for an anchor when determining your gap shooting needs!

I'VE BEEN DOING NOTHING BUT SHOOTING MY FRIEND!

Always trying to get better.. one day I'll be as well known as this guy Gene Bohannan....whoever that is.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:39 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traditionalrj View Post
that's right! Check the rules! If you can't allow you changing your anchor point, don't! Bold faced cheating when it's in the rules and you do it! No string walking and face walking! Keeping your fingers in contact with the nock but climbing through your fingers is considered face walking...

Keep this in mind when choosing the right finger to use for an anchor when determining your gap shooting needs!

I've been doing nothing but shooting my friend!

Always trying to get better.. One day i'll be as well known as this guy gene bohannan....whoever that is. :d
good luck my friend!!!!!!!!:d:d:d:d
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:40 AM   #99
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For the ones that shoot gap how does it work off and elevated stand
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:51 AM   #100
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It will work but you need to really know your distances from your stand
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