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Old 12-25-2016, 02:03 AM   #1
2good2Btru
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Default No brow tine bucks

Have several bucks on our place that are 4 pointer with no brow tines. Most of them are 2.5 with only a couple being 3.5. Would you let the 2.5 ones walk to see if they get better or cull them out? I definitely feel that we need to cull out the 3.5 ones. By that age, they should have brow tines.
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Old 12-25-2016, 03:59 AM   #2
ttaxidermy
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Shoot
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:17 AM   #3
jefandaward
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Sounds like you got a freaky daddy out there that needs cullin too
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Old 12-25-2016, 05:43 AM   #4
deerwatcher51
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It seems to me you have a problem. I would start taking all of them if they are not showing any brows by 2.5.
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:47 AM   #5
kcmarullo
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We shoot them for no brow tines
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:52 AM   #6
deerwatcher51
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Here is a link you might want to look at.

http://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/hunt/...s_a_predictor/
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:57 AM   #7
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Cull.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:03 AM   #8
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If they are not 3yr old or older deer they dont need to be shot no matter what they look like and even then you are Not going to get rid of that trait in your deer herd if it is a strong trait. Hood news is that brow tines count the least towards a bucks score in most cases so it is not that big of a deal if you have several out there that have none
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:07 AM   #9
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Not by any means saying what we do is the gospel but we don't cull anything until 3.5. We started this about 7 years ago because we needed to get our buck numbers up. We were shooting all spikes and anything "inferior" prior. Our doe to buck ratio was about 5:1. The biggest deer we had killed on the place was 164 inches. Since we started not culling until 3.5 our ratio has leveled to about 2.5:1 and our consistent quality has gone through the roof with deer around the 170 mark every year. We are low fenced BTW.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDR View Post
Not by any means saying what we do is the gospel but we don't cull anything until 3.5. We started this about 7 years ago because we needed to get our buck numbers up. We were shooting all spikes and anything "inferior" prior. Our doe to buck ratio was about 5:1. The biggest deer we had killed on the place was 164 inches. Since we started not culling until 3.5 our ratio has leveled to about 2.5:1 and our consistent quality has gone through the roof with deer around the 170 mark every year. We are low fenced BTW.
I wish more people saw it this way.


A baby freak with a crap rack is still just a baby.

I'd rather cull a 3.5 yo for a meat buck than a 1.5-2.5 yo that carries a lot less grindable body mass than his younger brethren.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:18 AM   #11
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2.5 no brows we shoot, everyone has there on opinion.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:46 AM   #12
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Your hunting place would be amazing if you and neighbors only killed 6.5 year old bucks or older, regardless of what was on their head.

Want meat? Shoot a doe.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:29 PM   #13
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Do you have an abundance of bucks? If so, taking them out wont hurt if they are the bottom of their age class, rack wise. If you have a lopsided doe to buck ratio then you need to leave them alone.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Of Texas View Post
Your hunting place would be amazing if you and neighbors only killed 6.5 year old bucks or older, regardless of what was on their head.

Want meat? Shoot a doe.
This ^^^
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:53 PM   #15
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Default No brow tine bucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtp View Post
Do you have an abundance of bucks? If so, taking them out wont hurt if they are the bottom of their age class, rack wise. If you have a lopsided doe to buck ratio then you need to leave them alone.


Agreed. I passed this buck but I think he broke his brows but even if he didn't I would rather shot him next year to see if he puts on more mass and length.







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Old 12-27-2016, 09:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtp View Post
Do you have an abundance of bucks? If so, taking them out wont hurt if they are the bottom of their age class, rack wise. If you have a lopsided doe to buck ratio then you need to leave them alone.
This/\
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:00 PM   #17
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Agreed
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:05 PM   #18
butler145
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I passed a young 10 point this year thinking he would get bigger and better next year. well now just found out we are off the lease next year. and haven't got a buck this year. wish I wouldn't of passed him to let him grow
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:45 PM   #19
Black Ice
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Default No brow tine bucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by butler145 View Post
I passed a young 10 point this year thinking he would get bigger and better next year. well now just found out we are off the lease next year. and haven't got a buck this year. wish I wouldn't of passed him to let him grow


There is still time to get after him. I shoot 0 to 1 bucks a year but if I was ever told I would be off the lease next year I would make sure I tagged out on my buck tags. I know that may seem ****ty but I pass a lot of bucks for next year and 3 years down the road but in our 3 buck county I would be going home with all three buck tags filled. March 1st would be eviction notice if I was the land owner.


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Last edited by Black Ice; 12-27-2016 at 10:49 PM..
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:52 PM   #20
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Culls. No doubt.
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:36 AM   #21
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Cull?
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Old 12-28-2016, 12:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thabucknasty View Post

Cull?


If that deer is 4.5 I'm passing on him. If he is 5.5 I'm taking him as a management buck.


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Old 12-28-2016, 02:20 AM   #23
2good2Btru
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We do have a lot of nice young 8 pointers with brow tines that are 2.5 and 3.5. In a management aspect, wouldn't it be better to take a 3.5 4 pointer with no brow tines than taking a 1.5 spike? Trying to get our lease members to agree to this. The problem is that the LM feels that a spike is the bigger problem.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:55 AM   #24
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I don't see this "no brows-down" as a broad brush solution.
I would have trail cam shots and discuss each deer individually.

Personally, anything less than 3.5 gets a pass on my place.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butler145 View Post
I passed a young 10 point this year thinking he would get bigger and better next year. well now just found out we are off the lease next year. and haven't got a buck this year. wish I wouldn't of passed him to let him grow
Why not shoot a doe if you don't see a good buck? Why are you hung up on getting a buck even if its not one you would have shot opening day?
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Ice View Post
There is still time to get after him. I shoot 0 to 1 bucks a year but if I was ever told I would be off the lease next year I would make sure I tagged out on my buck tags. I know that may seem ****ty but I pass a lot of bucks for next year and 3 years down the road but in our 3 buck county I would be going home with all three buck tags filled. March 1st would be eviction notice if I was the land owner.


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^^^^ That's why you don't tell people until after season...
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:34 AM   #27
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We have a line of deer with 1/2-1" G1's. We shoot anything over 2.5 with that characteristic. We have plenty of young bucks with nice looking horns. We do not shoot any deer under 5 years old (unless we have a kid that is killing their first buck hunting with us).
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:57 PM   #28
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My no brow 2yo experiments haven't worked out for the positive. Statistically they're inferior to their classmates on our place. We manage off the bottom of every age class including <2.5" yearling spikes. 1 & 2 yo age classes get managed the least. 4 yo's get hit the hardest.

If you're always working from the bottom up you're improving your chances of growing a big one. Our big deer show their potential at very early ages. We had multiple 120+" 2 yo's last year that are 165-175" at 3.

Mexico has had good luck passing their slick brow young bucks.
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Old 01-04-2017, 01:37 PM   #29
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I had a buck that was missing his left brow as a 2, 3 and 4 year old. By lease rules, I could have "culled" him as a 3 year old. As a 4 year old, he was missing the brow but still a nice 140-ish deer and, as a 5 year old, he sprouted his other brow and was a 150-ish deer. I could have taken a "freebie" 140 at 4 years old, but it would have been a shame to "cull" him in this case.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:38 PM   #30
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We were gunna kill the one buck we had on camera with no brow tines. Prolly 4.5. But never ended up seeing him so we will see what he ends up like.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2good2Btru View Post
Have several bucks on our place that are 4 pointer with no brow tines. Most of them are 2.5 with only a couple being 3.5. Would you let the 2.5 ones walk to see if they get better or cull them out? I definitely feel that we need to cull out the 3.5 ones. By that age, they should have brow tines.
Does the lack of brow tines devalue them some kind of way?
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:43 AM   #32
2good2Btru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Does the lack of brow tines devalue them some kind of way?
No. I just thought that was a trait that you could potentially get rid of. But after a lot of research, it's almost impossible to do so in a low fence property.
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:50 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
I wish more people saw it this way.


A baby freak with a crap rack is still just a baby.

I'd rather cull a 3.5 yo for a meat buck than a 1.5-2.5 yo that carries a lot less grindable body mass than his younger brethren.
I totally agree. We can't keep our lease hunters from slaughtering yearlings through 2.5yos. On my side of the ranch we have a 4.5yo minimum.

Look at breeding efficacy- immature deer are not going to successfully breed hardly anything. No reason to kill them, they are not contributing greatly to genetics.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmh05 View Post
I totally agree. We can't keep our lease hunters from slaughtering yearlings through 2.5yos. On my side of the ranch we have a 4.5yo minimum.

Look at breeding efficacy- immature deer are not going to successfully breed hardly anything. No reason to kill them, they are not contributing greatly to genetics.
There have been studies that prove that statement wrong. Any buck in the herd is involved in the breeding. Any buck in the herd will only breed between 1-2 doe per year on average.

Last edited by texashunter56; 01-12-2017 at 07:08 AM..
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:13 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2good2Btru View Post
Have several bucks on our place that are 4 pointer with no brow tines. Most of them are 2.5 with only a couple being 3.5. Would you let the 2.5 ones walk to see if they get better or cull them out? I definitely feel that we need to cull out the 3.5 ones. By that age, they should have brow tines.
Personally, I like the no brow tine look, so I would keep them. However, if you don't want that look, probably start at the 3.5s, and find the daddy with the bad genetics in the first place.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:21 AM   #36
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[quote=WItoTX;12101873]Personally, I like the no brow tine look, so I would keep them.

I agree
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:24 AM   #37
Jmh05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texashunter56 View Post
There have been studies that prove that statement wrong. Any buck in the herd is involved in the breeding. Any buck in the herd will only breed between 1-2 doe per year on average.
Any links to these studies? I'd like to read them.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:32 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texashunter56 View Post
There have been studies that prove that statement wrong. Any buck in the herd is involved in the breeding. Any buck in the herd will only breed between 1-2 doe per year on average.
Interested to ready this study as well. So a 2 yr old buck breeds the same amount of does as a 5 yr old buck? I personally don't agree with that logic but who knows, I may be missing something.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:13 PM   #39
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dang that sucks!!!

G1's are the most inheritable trait so you my friend are SOL I think. The best you can do is shoot as many of the smaller ones with no brows as you can and let the normal G1 bucks live a long life of breeding.

I think its hopeless but don't give up. I am glad we have bucks with tall G1's.....helps the score alot
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:24 PM   #40
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My son shot a buck with no brows this year. I was targeting that buck and was glad to see him go. I see another with almost the exact rack on camera from time to time. I feel it's genetic to at least a handful of bucks in my area. If this other youngster with no brows crosses my path I would take him out as well.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:25 PM   #41
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Here is a link to a recap of some studies done in 3 states...
http://www.tecomate.com/content/inde...g_whom_part_ii
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:59 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmh05 View Post
Any links to these studies? I'd like to read them.
Due to my computer technological limitations, I couldn't figure out how to link only the article on the topic. However, it is on this list. Additionally, any deer hunter will find a plethora of wonderful and interesting info on deer stuff.

http://www.msudeerlab.com/mobile/publications.asp

The study I assume Texashunter is refering to was initially lead by Miss State University and included deer populations from Miss, Okla, and S TX.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:16 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Ice View Post
If that deer is 4.5 I'm passing on him. If he is 5.5 I'm taking him as a management buck.


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Agree


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Old 01-12-2017, 09:59 PM   #44
Brbc1969
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Absolutely shoot em
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:02 PM   #45
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He still is a good buck. Get ir done.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:48 PM   #46
Jmh05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Of Texas View Post
Due to my computer technological limitations, I couldn't figure out how to link only the article on the topic. However, it is on this list. Additionally, any deer hunter will find a plethora of wonderful and interesting info on deer stuff.

http://www.msudeerlab.com/mobile/publications.asp

The study I assume Texashunter is refering to was initially lead by Miss State University and included deer populations from Miss, Okla, and S TX.
Thanks for the link. I'm always looking for evidence based deer management literature. After finding academic research, you've got to dissect it critically and not just take it for face value.

I will definitely read it this weekend.
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:53 AM   #47
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I wouldn't shoot them younger than 3.5 like most other have said.

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Old 01-19-2017, 03:02 PM   #48
Map My Ranch
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We wait till 3.5 to cull the slicks. If no brow tines, or little nubs by then, we cull.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:05 PM   #49
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I would shoot them!!!
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:08 AM   #50
Jmh05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texashunter56 View Post
Here is a link to a recap of some studies done in 3 states...
http://www.tecomate.com/content/inde...g_whom_part_ii
This summary states that culling is ineffective on free range deer herds

It also states that deer are not breeding high numbers of doe per buck, but that 70% of the breeding is done by 3.5yo deer or greater.

I've been told before that it is almost impossible to impact the genetics of free range deer, and I do believe that.
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