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Old 07-08-2018, 09:35 AM   #1
txpitdog
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Default New car buying saga

Not an ordeal...yet, but I am posting this in case it helps someone in the future. Maybe this is common knowledge to some, but we’ve been pretty surprised, a little perplexed, and a little frustrated by our recent attempts to buy a new vehicle. If anyone has any suggestions, we’re all ears!

My wife wants a Honda Odyssey. So, we set out to learn about them, figure out the color and trim and price range and all that. We just so happened to start shopping right at the time the 2019’s came out, but also right before the end of the month and end of the second quarter. The model my wife wants is the EX-L with navigation and rear entertainment. We were quoted $39,000 drive out by SEVERAL dealers around June 25-28. MSRP is $40,455.

We did the TrueCar thing and were bombarded by offers, which based on our previous experience buying Fords, we assumed to be the STARTING point for negotiation. Ive always been able to get Ford to deal further than the internet price, so I expected the same for my wife’s van. I called around separately from TrueCar offers, and I also quickly realized that anyone calling or walking in to a Honda dealership was offered the TrueCar price. Therefore, TrueCar wasn’t anything special, but just another advertising method...and it certainly wasn’t going to be the price I accepted.

Here’s where it gets weird.
(1) Not only, does Honda apparently NOT budge off the internet price, but ALL of the supposed “drive out” prices we’ve been quoted do not include the $900-$2200 in bull**** dealer add on crap. This is 100% across the board at every single Honda dealer we’ve spoken with or called. They basically jack the price back up to MSRP. For example, Keating Honda in Conroe put on three different protection packages and a SECOND GPS. Instead of $40,455 they wanted $43,625. I told the guy up front that the $3,000 they added were of zero value to us and that we would not consider it in our negotiations. It was a very short discussion that resulted in politely walking out.
(2) Not a single Honda dealership has followed up with us, called back, or inquired in any way, and this is both on 2019’s AND 2018’s. I woulda thought they’d at least halfway try to deal on 2018’s.
(3) The TruceCar price we were offered June 28 is $1,800-$2,500 less than the price we are now being quoted. I assume this is end of the month and quarter vs beginning of the month pricing strategy. Yesterday I called the sales manager out on it while trying to come to a deal, and he basically shrugged his shoulders and said they weren’t considering our offer ($39,000 drive out) and good luck. He did slip up and say they try to average 5% markup on new car sales for the month, but that 5% profit is over $1,000 less than the price they wouldn’t budge from. This tells me that buying a car at the beginning of the month is front-loaded with more than 5% profit and that we are done car shopping for three weeks.

Maybe it’s Honda, maybe it’s missing the opportunity for end of the quarter sales goals, but now is apparently not the time to be shopping for a Honda Odyssey. Fortunately, we’re not in a bind. We are going to check prices and dealer flexibility at the end of this month, and I’ll report back. If I don’t get the deal I know I can get, we’ll wait until the end of this quarter and report back. Heck, if it takes until the end of the year, I will do that, but one thing I will not do is pay the **** MSRP.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:41 AM   #2
IowaHunter
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Honda makes good vehicles and are proud of their prices.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:46 AM   #3
CTR0022
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From what I've seen and heard a lot of dealers are going to a fixed price and not negotiating. It's their new pricing model/strstegy.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:48 AM   #4
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Yep, buying Honda and Toyota is nothing like buying Ford etc etc. Little to haggle room. No massive rebates. All dealerships are required to put on an extra package. No special Honda sales month.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTR0022 View Post
From what I've seen and heard a lot of dealers are going to a fixed price and not negotiating. It's their new pricing model/strstegy.
I wish more dealers were like this. Just put the price on the sticker and get rid of the unnecessary BS.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:50 AM   #6
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We are a honda family and will be buying a 19 pilot soon. They are a pain to deal with because they can sell the vehicle without coming off the price. I think we are looking for a slightly used one st Carmax or a similar dealership and skipping the new this go around.
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:59 AM   #7
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I have bought my last 2 accords at the same dealership and got quotes from True Car as well. I fill out the form and then ignore all texts and emails for at least 2 weeks. I ignored them for a month 5 years ago and showed up to trade unannounced. The salesman asked if I had gotten an email from them and showed me his computer screen with an email that was 1600.00 less than what I was going to offer them. I have also gotten emails and text from dealerships that come off of the sticker slightly. Be patient is my advice. Here is what I paid for my accord a few month ago plus the dealer add on`s that were included in the price.

Honda Of Ft. Worth

MSRP: $24,460.00
Internet Sales Price: $21,398.00
Drive Out: $23,140.87

The above Drive Out quote INCLUDES the following complimentary accessories & services:
1. Destination fees
2. Window tint & pinstripes with lifetime warranty
3. Nitrogen Tire Inflation
4. Genuine Honda Protection Package (wheel locks, splash guards, & trunk tray)
5. Free Car Washes for life
6. First Oil Change is free
7. 24-hour Honda Roadside Assistance
8. Tax, title, & license
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:06 AM   #8
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I don't buy hondas. But my way is to det err ermine what I want. Get price from several dealers. Negotiate with best offer. Walk in and buy. Being too busy to walk in for sales pitch helps

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Old 07-08-2018, 10:12 AM   #9
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Call our TBH Honda guy!! He goes by Adnoh. Get it??

He runs Howdy Honda in Austin

TJ Nissen. Great dude. 512-443-4300
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:28 AM   #10
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When I last bought my wife's Accord EXL I used Edmunds.com and requested a quote from several dealers. I got an offer from Spring Branch Honda that I took to our local dealer and asked if they would match it. They couldn't even come close. They told me that it HAD to be for a 4cyl model. I even called Spring Branch and asked if it was a 6cyl and would that truly be my out the door price. I did this on speaker with my local sales manager standing right there. Again he stated that if I went to the other dealer they would change things and there was no way they would sell it for that. Well what do you know they didn't sell it for the price quoted. I was still able to haggle another $500 off the quote, out the door.
Keep at it and there are deals to be had. I don't remember how much off MSRP I would up getting, it's been 4 years.
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:55 AM   #11
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I live in Austin and bought from Fernandez Honda in San Antonio. Austin Dealers would not budge and had all the add on's inflating the drive out price. I bought 1500-2000 less from Fernandez. Cut the deal on the phone as they had exactly what I wanted and gave me the best price. Best car buying experience I've ever had on a new vehicle. Drove down, signed the papers and drove home. About an hours time at the dealer.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:00 AM   #12
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So your going back to a Ford SUV now it sounds like. Haha
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:02 AM   #13
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Dont even get me started....suffice it to say they are all crooks. I hate dealing with them because their sole purpose is not to do business like honest people ( a mutually beneficial relationship ), it is to screw you as hard as they can.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:06 AM   #14
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If you aren't dead set on buying new, CarGurus is a pretty good website to find a lightly used car while comparing prices for your area. We're shopping for a Pilot right now and have decided to go this route.
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:28 AM   #15
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Default Here you go

https://www.texasdirectauto.com/for-...RL6H88JB015084
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
Yep, buying Honda and Toyota is nothing like buying Ford etc etc. Little to haggle room. No massive rebates. All dealerships are required to put on an extra package. No special Honda sales month.


I’ve had the exact opposite experience. First tundra I bought was stickered at 43k and got them down to 34,200 before trade. Second tundra was 44 and got them down to 36k before trade. My wife bought a Camry and was stickered at 29k and change and I got them down to 22,800 before trade. None of these had more than 3k in rebates. And all had the free Toyota care with oil changes and blah blah.

Except the Camry. It did not have the the tire warranty. We bought that from discount Bc of the brand of tires on the car. Was half the price through them. But they only do it on certain brands I believe. Always worth checking on any new car you buy.

Looked at Ford F-350’s last couple of months and 7k off was the best I could find on a truck that had a MSRP in the upper 70’s. So 10% off Msrp from Ford. Dodge was the same.....

still driving my tundra...


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Old 07-08-2018, 12:05 PM   #17
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Based on my experience, some foreign car brands just don't deal like GMC/Ford.

Coming from buying a few Chevy trucks over the years, I went shopping for an Audi my wife wanted several months back. To my surprise, these guys would not hardly budge. I went to a few dealerships, left my business card, walked out, etc., and never even received a follow-up call from the sales person, other than some dealer survey questions. Literally, getting 6% off MSRP was the deal.

It's all a game at the end of the day. Who's to say that Chevy and Ford don't inflate their MSRP's to make it appear you are getting a better deal. These manufacturers also are dealing a bit more in volume and offer more rebates.

I also think some of these brands rather a more up-front approach on the deal as compared to the haggling back and forth for multiple hours.
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Old 07-08-2018, 02:38 PM   #18
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Just something to ponder...

If you owned a business, would you be able to make it on a 5% profit margin?
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Old 07-08-2018, 03:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerscowboy View Post
Just something to ponder...

If you owned a business, would you be able to make it on a 5% profit margin?


Depends on volume and price of product I suppose. But we all know dealerships operate at higher than 5% margins even when you think you got a great deal. If I had 10 salesman doing 30 cars a month, each car has an average of 2000 profit set at 5%, that’s 600,000 a month. Now I don’t know what it costs to operate a dealership each month, or the exact margins in the average sale, but 600k is pretty solid.

One of my best friends is in sales and is a GM for a big corporate company. Clayton homes. And he does extremely well for himself. I know his margins and he is a volume guy. His staff sells around 100-120 homes a year. Better to sell slot for a little than a few sales for a lot.


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Old 07-08-2018, 03:25 PM   #20
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About to be going through the same thing. Not looking forward to it!!!
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:04 PM   #21
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So thankful for my friend who is the GM at our local dealership---I walk in, tell him what I want, and his staff finds it, get it to their location, and I am done.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:28 PM   #22
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My wife is on her second CRV, and we couldn’t be happier. Bought the first one local off the lot in 2004, and I believe we got a fair deal. Went back to the same dealer in ‘14, and if it wasn’t on the lot at the time, you were just out of luck. Well, after 10 years with her first CRV, my wife had some “got to haves” on the second one, and the dealership wouldn’t even try to find her what she wanted. Long story short, I found the exact color, interior, package she wanted at Holmes Honda in Shreveport. I called to confirm that particular CRV was still there, and after confirming it was, they asked how long it would take us to get there and said it would be idling with the a/c on with a salesman to meet us. It was, and it was the single best car buying experience I’ve ever had. Good price and absolutely no BS. Ask for Jason Norman.

As for attempting to buy a Ford truck from Randall Noe in Terrell, that’s a story for a different day, but I will say it didn’t happen and never will...

Last edited by retrieverman; 07-08-2018 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:20 PM   #23
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Hate the negotiation process of buying a car. Bought our last 3 vehicles at places that don't negotiate. My dad used to work at a car dealership in the 70's, he actually enjoys the process. I don't.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:39 PM   #24
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Car buying can be stressful but my advice is don't give in and find a dealership willing to negotiate. Be willing to travel and look everywhere. My wife looks EVERYWHERE! I'm talking Dennis Dillon Dodge in Idaho EVERYWHERE and she will ship it in on a flatbed if it will save her $500. We drove all the way up to Longview to get my Dodge but I got what I wanted and she paid what she wanted.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:47 PM   #25
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The one time I walked into a Honda dealership I was told they don't negotiate. So, I bought another brand.

As for the add on's, it's pretty annoying. Stick to your guns and be patient. Something will turn up. I wouldn't fold just yet.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:47 PM   #26
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Some will work with you, but when someone walks in knowing how much they want to pay, what is a "fair" price, and is savvy enough regarding all the add on charges, most don't want to play. They figure eventually someone naive will walk in and buy it or will finance it forever and not care about the price. On my last truck I called a bunch of dealers, all of which had the same truck like I wanted. After a while all the prices were within a couple hundred bucks, so I figured that's the best I would get. I had to reiterate numerous time no add ons. Keep looking and don't take your eye off of them.

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Old 07-08-2018, 08:52 PM   #27
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Just another reason I don’t buy new cars. Not worth the hassle when I can save several thousand on a 2-4 year old used one.


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Old 07-09-2018, 12:26 PM   #28
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I hate the dealer add-on's. When we bought my wife's Accord a couple years ago, it had a bunch of that stuff on it. I told the salesman to remove the add-on's, or order us a new one without all that junk. Of course, they didn't do that. But, he did cut the price of the add-on junk DRASTICALLY, until I felt like it was a fair deal. Maybe I could have done better by finding some remote back-woods dealer that doesn't do the add-on's. I knew that stuff was overpriced, but I was still shocked at how much he knocked off.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:34 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerscowboy View Post
Just something to ponder...

If you owned a business, would you be able to make it on a 5% profit margin?
Isn't "making it" by definition 0% profit margin with profit being gravy?
Also, % of what?
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:39 PM   #30
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Deals are vehicle specific and depend on demand.
Think you could have paid under sticker for a 50th anniversary Mustang? A bit of an extreme example, but that is how it works. If they don't have to work to sell the car, they won't.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:42 PM   #31
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Honda and Toyota are not Chevy Ford or Dodge
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:00 PM   #32
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My suggestion, keep doing what you are doing. Be patient, check around town, don't be afraid to drive an hour or two, and you will find the price you are looking for.

I did that with a car I bought 2 months ago. I had been looking for about a year. Finally found one close to what I was willing to pay, so I put in an even lower offer, and paid what I considered fair.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:04 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Just another reason I don’t buy new cars. Not worth the hassle when I can save several thousand on a 2-4 year old used one.


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Because you’d rather haggle with a used car guy???

Lmao!!
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:22 PM   #34
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I just bought my second Nissan Vehicle. The first was a Titan XD which I negotiated 14k off of the sticker. The second which I bought this past Saturday was an Armada for the wife. Negotiated 10k off sticker.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:23 PM   #35
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it is no wonder this big middle-man business is trying to keep tesla from selling directly to the consumer.

my last car purchase was a brand new 2016 toyota 4runner. i did it all over the phone and it took less than 45 minutes. got the price i wanted based on edmunds and consumer reports pricing.

if you want a white glove car buying service, check out https://www.goseeted.com/
or go to a place like Sewell in Dallas - they truly are a different kind of dealer.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:33 PM   #36
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I bought a 2018 tacoma the other day. Internet price was $21,150, or something. Went to dealership they offered $21,700. I'm like how come the internet price is $550 cheaper.... "Oh that's a third party we don't really have access to that system". Dude it's your dealerships website....

Fast forward: Next day I see a 4 door Tacoma on tehre for MSRP $27,800, internet price is $23,500... I call them and say if I can walk out the door at $25K TTL included, I'll come buy it today. Ended up getting it for $23,150 plus TTL for $25K, and I told the finance guy all this spill your about to give me, just stop I don't want it. They were like ok no problem, they quickly realized they weren't making their money off extended warranty etc from me....

Atkinson Toyota in Bryan is where I went, and I'd go back after they were actually friendly and worked with me once they realized I wasn't a sucker.
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTexasMan View Post
I bought a 2018 tacoma the other day. Internet price was $21,150, or something. Went to dealership they offered $21,700. I'm like how come the internet price is $550 cheaper.... "Oh that's a third party we don't really have access to that system". Dude it's your dealerships website....

Fast forward: Next day I see a 4 door Tacoma on tehre for MSRP $27,800, internet price is $23,500... I call them and say if I can walk out the door at $25K TTL included, I'll come buy it today. Ended up getting it for $23,150 plus TTL for $25K, and I told the finance guy all this spill your about to give me, just stop I don't want it. They were like ok no problem, they quickly realized they weren't making their money off extended warranty etc from me....

Atkinson Toyota in Bryan is where I went, and I'd go back after they were actually friendly and worked with me once they realized I wasn't a sucker.

Just curious which Tacoma 2018 was $21K? Single cab, 2wd, stock? Sorry just curious.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:23 PM   #38
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I have never bought a Honda or Toyota, etc., but I understand they don't normally 'deal' off the price as much as GMC, Ford, etc.
However, the whole 'True Car' thing makes me laugh. Their commercials say 'the way car buying should be' - but, for whom?
Their information about what similar cars are selling for in your particular area is obtained from . . . the very car dealerships that want to sell you the vehicle. Do you think those car dealerships submit those vehicle sales that were on razor thin margins at the end of the month/quarter? Of course not. They submit the figures that reflect the prices at which they want to sell all of their vehicles.
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:37 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txhunter90 View Post
Just curious which Tacoma 2018 was $21K? Single cab, 2wd, stock? Sorry just curious.
2wd extended cab, but they don't even have backseats in them now so may as well be like a single cab with extra room.

Got the 2wd 4 cylinder 4 door base for $23,150. I just needed something to get to and from work at times, and to the lease.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:02 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by EastTexasMan View Post
2wd extended cab, but they don't even have backseats in them now so may as well be like a single cab with extra room.

Got the 2wd 4 cylinder 4 door base for $23,150. I just needed something to get to and from work at times, and to the lease.
You should be good for 30 years
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
Just another reason I don’t buy new cars. Not worth the hassle when I can save several thousand on a 2-4 year old used one.


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Buying used is so much easier. Lookup trade in value of what you are trying to buy (KBB & NADA), add $1000, and use that as a starting point for negotiation as trade in should be pretty close to what they paid for it.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:20 PM   #42
RiverRat1
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Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post
Because you’d rather haggle with a used car guy???

Lmao!!
I got lucky buying a used truck. The salesman really wanted to buy it for himself but he already had a reliable car in his driveway. I got a steal!


I swear people get dumber each day. It seems the vast majority don't even look at prices anymore. When I ask about prices on this new house I'm building I get a stupid stare a lot of the time. I'm thinking...How in the bleep bleep do other people not even ask what stuff costs? Sorry I'm bothering you asking if these cabinets will be $3,000 or $30,000 LOL
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:43 PM   #43
WRasco
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I like buying vehicles. I got some cheap and paid to much for others.
The secret is being able to just walk away if you don't like the price offered, and not trying to squeeze every last penny out of the guy selling it to you.

I do not know of any brick and mortar businesses that can survive long on 5% profit.
And I guarantee car dealerships do not.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:48 PM   #44
EastTexasMan
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You should be good for 30 years
Yep tinted windows, leveled it, added nerf bar, added fender flares all myself for $900. Looks like the 4x4 just isn't hehe
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:54 PM   #45
Blitz
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Buying is all about who has the leverage. Plain and simple.

I bought a Tundra last year. The guy wasn't gonna come down off the price. I pulled my phone out and starting swiping the screen from bottom to top showing him all the Tundra's at other dealerships I could get better deals. Reality started to set in. They know their best opportunity for a sale is right then. Most people don't come back.

He said hold on a second. He came back and said, I will let you have it for that price and we will install leather. Deal? I said, draw up the paperwork.

Successful negotiating means both sides are satisfied. When both parties can walk away from the table feeling they got something, its a good deal for both.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:55 PM   #46
fullsizeaggie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
I got lucky buying a used truck. The salesman really wanted to buy it for himself but he already had a reliable car in his driveway. I got a steal!


I swear people get dumber each day. It seems the vast majority don't even look at prices anymore. When I ask about prices on this new house I'm building I get a stupid stare a lot of the time. I'm thinking...How in the bleep bleep do other people not even ask what stuff costs? Sorry I'm bothering you asking if these cabinets will be $3,000 or $30,000 LOL
Everything you see now is payments, payments. Can you make the payment? I want to know the total cost and then I will decide if I want to make a payment.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:03 PM   #47
Heath
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My favorite method is to email every dealership in a 100 mile radius on the same email and tell me to send their best offer for "X" truck. Typically you will get a few answers back and that is the guys I know need or are willing to deal, then start from there.

Once you figure out, you "don't need to buy that day" and you can walk out on your terms its good. With that said when you have a guy you trust, like Jerry Black at Tom Light Chevy in Bryan for me, it makes the world of difference.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:22 PM   #48
deerplanter
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My wife has good results at Baytown community Honda, she deals with a guy named Tracy I believe. She has bought several cars from him and she has been happy with the deal.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:56 PM   #49
txpitdog
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Well, just when I thought we were done shopping, it fires right back up. I have one Houston dealer emailing frequently and has offered 40,500 drive out. Not good enough but when I pressed him on it he said “yes, please do your due diligence, and then let me know if we can sell you a vehicle”. I take that to mean he ain’t budging.

But then it turns out that other dealers outside of Houston are a tad more motivated. Now we’re down to less than 40k drive out with extended warranty included. Not good enough, but I share it with the Houston crowd to give them a chance to match or beat it.

I was perplexed by the hardball game we got after the beginning of the month. I mean, not even a call back to see if we would budge on price on our end. But now I see how this all works.

This is the first time I’ve ever shopped for a car the hard way, always had a Ford X plan or some other automatic deal that I felt was good enough. But it’s clear to me now. The game is rigged to make it feel like the dealership holds the power, but what feels like the final battle is really just the first skirmish. I’m convinced now that we will get the price we want.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:08 PM   #50
cj_sandman
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Originally Posted by txpitdog View Post
I called around separately from TrueCar offers, and I also quickly realized that anyone calling or walking in to a Honda dealership was offered the TrueCar price. Therefore, TrueCar wasn’t anything special, but just another advertising method...and it certainly wasn’t going to be the price I accepted.
I wasn't able to tell from your posts, but -- did you actually walk into any dealerships and talk to a live salesperson?

Last edited by cj_sandman; 07-11-2018 at 03:17 PM.
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