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Old 10-12-2017, 11:18 AM   #1
DapperDan
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Default Arrow help.... I think I over did it...

So Iím drawing 70 lbs and 27Ē draw on a Mathews no cam htx. I recently had my DL shortened from 27.5Ē. I had my arrows cut down and added 75 grain inserts. I was at 430 grain and 280 fps and now Iím at 476 grain and 250 fps. Shooting Easton axis 340 5mm.

I didnít realize how drastic the drop was going to be out to 40 and 50 yards. Iím sure I have a TON of momentum and KE now but did I over do it? Is there a set up that would give me adequate momentum and KE and put me closer to 285-290 fps? Totally getting discouraged here on loss of fps and sloooooooow arrow at longer range.


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Old 10-12-2017, 12:07 PM   #2
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I think you will be good there. Should be able to pass through anything.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:10 PM   #3
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I bet it's really quiet and smooth!
Speed isn't everything.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:12 PM   #4
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Short answer is go back to your original set up. it will be totally fine for just about anything you want to hunt. BUT ... i have been bowhunting for way longer than i care to admit and i have tried all kinds of set ups. i keep coming back to heavier arrows. My average shot distance over 39 yrs of bowhunting has been 17 yds,with only a few shots over 30 yds. I practice at 45 and 50 but that's mainly to work on form and make the 20 yd shots feel easy. I love the quietness and forgiveness a heavier arrow gives me as well as the penetration. I suggest giving this new setup a chance this season unless you are consistenty taking longer shots. Good luck and happy hunting.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:37 PM   #5
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No Cam's aren't fast bows by modern standards (notice I said modern, I remember the days of being excited when a bow would shoot 220), so I wouldn't get too hung up on fps numbers. But if you were happy with the 430 grain arrow just go back to it. If you like how the 476 grain arrow shoots, how many shots do you really take at 50 yards? In 30+ years of bowhunting I have never taken a shot over 35 on whitetails. Having said all that I honestly don't get hung up final numbers. I bareshaft and broadhead tune my arrows and bows and where the weight lands, it lands. Unless my bow seems really loud to me, I don't get hung up thinking a need a heavier arrows. You have to shoot what gives you confidence.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelbow View Post
Short answer is go back to your original set up. it will be totally fine for just about anything you want to hunt. BUT ... i have been bowhunting for way longer than i care to admit and i have tried all kinds of set ups. i keep coming back to heavier arrows. My average shot distance over 39 yrs of bowhunting has been 17 yds,with only a few shots over 30 yds. I practice at 45 and 50 but that's mainly to work on form and make the 20 yd shots feel easy. I love the quietness and forgiveness a heavier arrow gives me as well as the penetration. I suggest giving this new setup a chance this season unless you are consistenty taking longer shots. Good luck and happy hunting.


So what Iím looking for is a setup that I can use for out west and whitetail. Iím just a little concerned that I went too heavy. My old set up had more KE and more momentum than I have now. Iím at 66 at KE and was around 73 before. Problem I have is with Easton axis arrows, is I canít get high FOC without having a heavy arrow....


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Old 10-12-2017, 01:24 PM   #7
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nothing wrong with 250 fps and a heavier than normal arrow. you wont believe the amount of folks who think their bow is faster than it really is. I ran a chrono at an ASA shoot and one of the most common things I heard was "I thought my bow was faster than that"
as far as the drop, remember, you adjust your sights to your arrow trajectory. at longer ranges, you either become very good at judging distances or range before the shot.
I shoot a 515 gr arrow at 268 fps and really like that weight. im even debating on adding another 50 gr just for giggles. I still shoot at the 100 yd target on a regular basis.
to get your setup to the speeds you desire, you have 3 options:
1) increase draw length. prolly not an option.
2) get a higher IBO bow. maybe an option
3) find a super light grain per inch arrow in the appropriate spine and load up the front of it with a heavier than normal bh. maybe an option
the biggest factor hurting your speed is your draw length.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:46 PM   #8
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Unless you're shooting 40 plus, I'd take the KE
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:01 PM   #9
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Biggest question that needs to be asked is how does it tune. At 60 yards, do your field points and fixed blade broadheads have the same point of impact? Shoot what tunes best, and gives you the most confidence. Adding a 75 grain insert is a substantial amount of weight up front and I would not be surprised if you are underspined now.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:01 PM   #10
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I have always shot heavy carbon arrows at and they are super quiet. My compound is quieter than most recurves.

They smack hard and punch through.

If you are looking for long range pick up a gun.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttechhunter View Post
Biggest question that needs to be asked is how does it tune. At 60 yards, do your field points and fixed blade broadheads have the same point of impact? Shoot what tunes best, and gives you the most confidence. Adding a 75 grain insert is a substantial amount of weight up front and I would not be surprised if you are underspined now.
He's not
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:34 PM   #12
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So I was thinking about something in the 400-425 range. That will increase speed and give me more KE and Momentum than I currently have. I have passed the optimal point and have hit the point of diminishing returns


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Old 10-12-2017, 02:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Texastaxi View Post
I bet it's really quiet and smooth!
Speed isn't everything.
Words of wisdom IMO.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:52 PM   #14
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I have the same draw length and I'm shooting a 486 gr arrow out of a Mathews Halon at 249 fps. Trust me speed is nothing but a number in the Bow world unless your trying to shoot at far ranges with less of a pin gap. I literally am blowing through bones and shoulder with a fixed blade broad head with this set up thanks to Muddy Fuzzy. I also shoot a 450 gr. arrow of a BTX shooting at 262 fps. Heavy arrows with F.O.C is what I believe in now it gives me the confidence I need if I make a mistake
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:54 PM   #15
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You can go with something like an Easton Hexx shaft in a 330 spine (7.9gr) and add a 75 grain brass insert. With a 27" arrow and 100 grain broadheads that puts you at around 420 grains or more if you shoot a lighted nock.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:13 PM   #16
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I was shooting light and fast arrows last season and hit a buck in the shoulder and got minimal penetration. I decided to go heavier and had muddyfuzzy build me a dozen. I'm now up to 520 grains. My 50 yard pin is bottomed out in my sight window but I'm fine with that because my bow is really quiet and my arrows hit hard. I shot them side by side with my old arrows into a round hay bale. My old arrows were sticking out of the bale 18 inches and my new arrows were buried all the way into the bale. I'm fine with a slower arrow thats harder hitting
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbelcher269 View Post
You can go with something like an Easton Hexx shaft in a 330 spine (7.9gr) and add a 75 grain brass insert. With a 27" arrow and 100 grain broadheads that puts you at around 420 grains or more if you shoot a lighted nock.


So, after configuring KE and momentum, 420-430 grains is where I need to be to get the optimal performance out of this bow. Will give me right at 67 lbs of KE and roughly 265 fps. This should be sufficient for any animal in North America out to 50-60 yards.


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Old 10-12-2017, 04:34 PM   #18
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Spend the time practicing that you spend over thinking this, and you'll be fine.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post
Spend the time practicing that you spend over thinking this, and you'll be fine.


Lol. I get what youíre saying but I need arrows and want to set up a great arrow that will work for anything I hunt. Once I set something up Iím done tinkering. I shoot all the time. Shot at 40 yards today with consistent 2 inch groups.


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Old 10-12-2017, 04:45 PM   #20
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Default Arrow help.... I think I over did it...

Tinkering is fun. Donít get caught up on speed. If it feels good, do it.


-------------------------------
Violence never settles anything
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:09 PM   #21
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[quote=DapperDan;12814496]So Iím drawing 70 lbs and 27Ē draw on a Mathews no cam htx. I recently had my DL shortened from 27.5Ē. I had my arrows cut down and added 75 grain inserts. I was at 430 grain and 280 fps and now Iím at 476 grain and 250 fps. Shooting Easton axis 340 5mm.

I didnít realize how drastic the drop was going to be out to 40 and 50 yards. Iím sure I have a TON of momentum and KE now but did I over do it? Is there a set up that would give me adequate momentum and KE and put me closer to 285-290 fps? Totally getting discouraged here on loss of fps and sloooooooow arrow at longer range.


Dont sweat it, I shot a 27" draw length at 60lb weight, a 500 grain arrow at 239fps with Black Eagle Deep Impacts and 250 grains up front. I love how quiet my bow is and it shoots great..And I know I should most likely blow thru any thing I shoot at..
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:47 PM   #22
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[quote=DapperDan;12814496]So I’m drawing 70 lbs and 27” draw on a Mathews no cam htx. I recently had my DL shortened from 27.5”. I had my arrows cut down and added 75 grain inserts. I was at 430 grain and 280 fps and now I’m at 476 grain and 250 fps. Shooting Easton axis 340 5mm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I didn’t realize how drastic the drop was going to be out to 40 and 50 yards. I’m sure I have a TON of momentum and KE now but did I over do it? Is there a set up that would give me adequate momentum and KE and put me closer to 285-290 fps? Totally getting discouraged here on loss of fps and sloooooooow arrow at longer range.

Your arrow would be very fast for the No Cam at that D L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishndude View Post
He's not
Don't know his arrow length, so no real way to tell.
[quote=DapperDan;12815473]So, after configuring KE and momentum, 420-430 grains is where I need to be to get the optimal performance out of this bow. Will give me right at 67 lbs of KE and roughly 265 fps. This should be sufficient for any animal in North America out to 50-60 yards.
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This post makes me think you are guessing on speed, after reading original post.
Here's my take.
Guys on TBH are promoting high FOC arrows, and really don't have a good reason other than reading other forums.
I've killed traincars loads of deer and hogs without knowing what my FOC was, but my arrows flew straight.
I used to shoot aluminum 2312 shafts with 75 grain Wasp fixed heads, and killed truckloads of deer.
My wife shoots a 46 lb bow, with a 25" DL, with an arrow that weighs +/- 290 grains and simply puts the arrow in the right area.
She killed a 135 inch deer on opening day in East Tx, and blew thru everything but the hide after going thru the off shoulder.
You may be wanting something different than adequate, but don't get caught up in all this "high FOC"

Last edited by rocky; 10-12-2017 at 07:50 PM..
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:53 PM   #23
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[quote=rocky;12816031][quote=DapperDan;12814496]So Iím drawing 70 lbs and 27Ē draw on a Mathews no cam htx. I recently had my DL shortened from 27.5Ē. I had my arrows cut down and added 75 grain inserts. I was at 430 grain and 280 fps and now Iím at 476 grain and 250 fps. Shooting Easton axis 340 5mm.









Don't know his arrow length, so no real way to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
So, after configuring KE and momentum, 420-430 grains is where I need to be to get the optimal performance out of this bow. Will give me right at 67 lbs of KE and roughly 265 fps. This should be sufficient for any animal in North America out to 50-60 yards.

sent from iphone using tapatalk]

This post makes me think you are guessing on speed, after reading original post.

Here's my take.

Guys on TBH are promoting high FOC arrows, and really don't have a good reason other than reading other forums.

I've killed traincars loads of deer and hogs without knowing what my FOC was, but my arrows flew straight.

I used to shoot aluminum 2312 shafts with 75 grain Wasp fixed heads, and killed truckloads of deer.

My wife shoots a 46 lb bow, with a 25" DL, with an arrow that weighs +/- 290 grains and simply puts the arrow in the right area.

She killed a 135 inch deer on opening day in East Tx, and blew thru everything but the hide after going thru the off shoulder.

You may be wanting something different than adequate, but don't get caught up in all this "high FOC"


27" arrow carbon to carbon


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Old 10-12-2017, 08:05 PM   #24
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At 27", I seriously doubt your spine is weak with that bow, but the 75 grain insert may cause it to be.
Here's the deal. every 30 grains equals 10 fps.
You like Easton arrows, so look at their shafts and spines, and GPI, to calculate your FOC, and determine the speed you would like to shoot, and go from there.
Get a baseline on what your bow shoots an arrow weighing "X", and go from there.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texastaxi View Post
I bet it's really quiet and smooth!
Speed isn't everything.
Words of wisdom.

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Old 10-12-2017, 09:46 PM   #26
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So I was thinking about something in the 400-425 range. That will increase speed and give me more KE and Momentum than I currently have. I have passed the optimal point and have hit the point of diminishing returns


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No such thing..
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:48 PM   #27
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No such thing..
I agree
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:58 PM   #28
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How much quieter is your bow now?
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:59 PM   #29
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How much quieter is your bow now?


A little bit. But shooting a no cam htx so itís already uber quiet to begin with and I was shooting a 433 grain arrow before I made it heavier.


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Old 10-12-2017, 10:12 PM   #30
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Default Arrow help.... I think I over did it...

Ok, so, Iím over thinking. You ever over thought something. Of course you have. Itís what we do! Anyways, I have crunched numbers based off two different arrows I have shot and chronoíd. One is 433 grain and 264 fps and the other is 476 grain and 252 fps. Both are Easton axis. Based on all the math and crunching I was able to configure approximate arrow speeds for set ups of different arrows.

Looked at victory vaps, victory rips, Easton flatlines, and Easton axis (currently shooting). Based on what I have found is I can go to the Easton axis with a 27Ē shaft, 340 spine, add 50 grain insert, 100 grain BH, and after fletching and knock come in at around 430 grains and have a foc close to 12%. Momentum of .5 and KE of 67.

The 433 grain arrow I was shooting was 29Ē and didnít have weighted insert. I was happy with around 270 fps in that arrow.

I have my arrows at 476 grain, 250 fps, and 67 KE. Why not pick up almost 18 fps if I am not really losing anything else? Whatís the downside?


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Old 10-13-2017, 06:33 AM   #31
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Go HEAVY or go home!

I went from 410 to 595 and it quietened my bow, made it more forgiving and more accurate, especially on longer shots. I would stay with the heavier set up. My pin gap is not as much as I thought it would be also.
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Old 10-13-2017, 07:42 AM   #32
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heavy and quiet will always outweigh fast light and loud. Think this way, no bow is breaking the sound barrier so the critter will hear your shot before the arrow gets there even shooting 340 fps. quiet down the bow and make it harder to hear. maybe I'm flawed but that's my thinking
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:02 AM   #33
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Ok. I have never shot a no cam. But a arrow at 430 gr at 280 fps is 74.9 ke and .534 slug-ft/s. Then you showing a 476 gr at 250 fps. Has a ke of 66.1 ke .528 slug-ft/s. That either means your calculating and your way off. Or you shot it and something is horribly wrong. You will not loose in ke or slug-ft/s as weight goes up.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:04 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Ok, so, Iím over thinking. You ever over thought something. Of course you have. Itís what we do! Anyways, I have crunched numbers based off two different arrows I have shot and chronoíd. One is 433 grain and 264 fps and the other is 476 grain and 252 fps. Both are Easton axis. Based on all the math and crunching I was able to configure approximate arrow speeds for set ups of different arrows.

Looked at victory vaps, victory rips, Easton flatlines, and Easton axis (currently shooting). Based on what I have found is I can go to the Easton axis with a 27Ē shaft, 340 spine, add 50 grain insert, 100 grain BH, and after fletching and knock come in at around 430 grains and have a foc close to 12%. Momentum of .5 and KE of 67.

The 433 grain arrow I was shooting was 29Ē and didnít have weighted insert. I was happy with around 270 fps in that arrow.

I have my arrows at 476 grain, 250 fps, and 67 KE. Why not pick up almost 18 fps if I am not really losing anything else? Whatís the downside?


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KE is a marketing tool used by the archery industry. Arrow penetration capability relies on momentum. To dumb it down a little, Momentum is what keeps arrow moving after the point of impact. When it comes to momentum, there is no point of finishing returns in the realistic range of hunting arrows. Heavy is always good. Now, there are several other things to consider. FOC, Target animal, broadheads type and sharpness and bow tuned to perfect arrow flight. For Deer, there is nothing wrong with a 430 gr. arrow as long as all other factors are also being considered. Look at the Easton Hexx 330. You can put 75 gr brass insert up front, 100 gr head and weigh in around 430 gr. with good FOC. And when the time comes, shot placement is critical.

One other thing, a properly spines arrow with increased FOC, usually flies better than its lower FOC comparison.

Consider this....my wife gets pass throughs on elk with a 350 gr arrow, 25" draw and 47 lbs. It takes a good combination of all mentioned factors to get that performance for her.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:53 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by samson33 View Post
KE is a marketing tool used by the archery industry. Arrow penetration capability relies on momentum. To dumb it down a little, Momentum is what keeps arrow moving after the point of impact. When it comes to momentum, there is no point of finishing returns in the realistic range of hunting arrows. Heavy is always good. Now, there are several other things to consider. FOC, Target animal, broadheads type and sharpness and bow tuned to perfect arrow flight. For Deer, there is nothing wrong with a 430 gr. arrow as long as all other factors are also being considered. Look at the Easton Hexx 330. You can put 75 gr brass insert up front, 100 gr head and weigh in around 430 gr. with good FOC. And when the time comes, shot placement is critical.

One other thing, a properly spines arrow with increased FOC, usually flies better than its lower FOC comparison.

Consider this....my wife gets pass throughs on elk with a 350 gr arrow, 25" draw and 47 lbs. It takes a good combination of all mentioned factors to get that performance for her.
Yes a good combinations. This is why the 12 penetration factored by dr ashby are a good to look at when designing arrows. And weight is number 12. So always a way to build a great arrow with out being overly heavy

TWELVE PENETRATION FACTORS

1. Structural Integrity 
The most important factor of arrow penetration is structural integrity. If any component of your arrow fails, then penetration either completely stops or is greatly reduced. 
*
2. Arrow Flight 
If an arrow is not flying perfectly, then itís wasting valuable energy that could have contributed to penetration. If an arrow impacts before it has achieved perfect flight, then energy is wasted that could have contributed to forward momentum and penetration. Perfect flight is crucial; you must achieve it no matter what the cost. Pay close attention to the other factors too though or you may find yourself shooting arrows that fly perfectly but canít penetrate well at all. 
*
3. Arrow FOC (Front of Center) 
Tests have shown that EFOC, defined as 19% - 30% front of center and Ultra EFOC, defined as over 30% front of center enhances penetration from 40% to 60+%. 
*
4. Broadhead Mechanical Advantage 
Long narrow broadheads have an advantage over shorter wider heads. It takes less energy to push them through an animal. That is their mechanical advantage. This is second only to EFOC and Ultra EFOC as a penetration-enhancing factor. 

5. Shaft Diameter to Ferrule Diameter Ratio 
Youíll lose up to 30% of your penetration potential if the shaft diameter is larger than the ferrule diameter where they meet. Itís best to be slightly smaller in diameter than the ferrule of the broadhead. 

6. Arrow Mass or Weight 
Heavier arrows absorb more energy from the bow at the shot and heavier arrows carry their momentum better than lighter arrows, so heavier arrows penetrate better. Bow hunters should use the heaviest arrow that will deliver a trajectory they can live with. 

7. Broadhead Edge Finish 
Broadhead edges that have been honed and stropped smooth have a 26% advantage over smooth filed edges and a 60% advantage over the coarse ďserratedĒ Howard Hill edge.

8. Shaft Profile 
On all shots, tapered arrow shafts show an 8% penetration gain over parallel wall arrow shafts and a 15% gain over barrel tapered shafts. 

9. Broadhead/Arrow Silhouette 
Smooth transitions and slick arrow finishes greatly enhance the penetration potential of your broadhead/arrow combination. Broadhead ferrules with bumps or any irregular surfaces impede penetration, especially in bone. 

10. Type of Edge Bevel 
Only if no bone is encountered, then the type of edge bevel ranks 10th. If bone is hit, and more often than not it is, this factor jumps up toward the top of the list. If you canít get through the bone, penetration stops. The powerful rotational force of single bevel broadheads splits bone. Single bevel broadheads regularly turn what would be a wound into a killing shot. Note: Your arrow must be of sufficient weight and strength to drive the broadhead through and withstand the forces involved in breaching the bone. 

11. Tip Design 
In all testing where bone was encountered, the Tanto tip performed best. It resisted damage and skipped less than any other tip design.

12. Arrow Mass 650 grains and Above 
When soft tissue is hit, this factor is ranked last in importance, BUT if heavy bone is hit arrow mass will be near the top of the list. Heavy bone is almost impossible to breach unless you have 650 grains or better in mass arrow weight.
Dr. Ed Ashby
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:56 AM   #36
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While I agree weight is important. I'll take speed and less arrow drop first with adequate weight.

My setup is 29.5" / 74lbs - 390 gr arrow @ 315 fps. I shoot the same setup for Whitetail, Axis, Mule deer and Elk. I have shot several Elk past 50 yards and never had a problem with penetration. Most don't passthrough as I try to hit the opposite shoulder.

Point being you were fine where you were - 280 fps & 430Gr arrow will kill anything in North America with proper shot placement.

If you hit solid bone on a Elk, Axis, Mule deer or even a big whitetail - it is not going to matter.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:49 AM   #37
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While I agree weight is important. I'll take speed and less arrow drop first with adequate weight.

My setup is 29.5" / 74lbs - 390 gr arrow @ 315 fps. I shoot the same setup for Whitetail, Axis, Mule deer and Elk. I have shot several Elk past 50 yards and never had a problem with penetration. Most don't passthrough as I try to hit the opposite shoulder.

Point being you were fine where you were - 280 fps & 430Gr arrow will kill anything in North America with proper shot placement.

If you hit solid bone on a Elk, Axis, Mule deer or even a big whitetail - it is not going to matter.
I can agree with you, but I would add one more thing. Not all 390 gr arrows are equal. If 390 is your number, try and build the arrow with more FOC, if possible.? It will perform better. Better flight, less effect from wind and will penetrate better.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:53 AM   #38
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Ok. I have never shot a no cam. But a arrow at 430 gr at 280 fps is 74.9 ke and .534 slug-ft/s. Then you showing a 476 gr at 250 fps. Has a ke of 66.1 ke .528 slug-ft/s. That either means your calculating and your way off. Or you shot it and something is horribly wrong. You will not loose in ke or slug-ft/s as weight goes up.


Typo should say 430 and 270 fps. Just saw that.


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Old 10-13-2017, 10:59 AM   #39
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I went to a heavier muddyfuzzy arrow this year as well. I was in a 28" FMJ 400 and now black eagle carnivore at 486grns. The black eagles are about 4 inches lower than the fmj at 30 yards. BUT they just about lift the block off the ground when shooting the top spots. And its quieter
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:05 AM   #40
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I went to a heavier muddyfuzzy arrow this year as well. I was in a 28" FMJ 400 and now black eagle carnivore at 486grns. The black eagles are about 4 inches lower than the fmj at 30 yards. BUT they just about lift the block off the ground when shooting the top spots. And its quieter


If I shot a bow with a higher ibo Iíd be all about this. A halon 32 at 70 lbs and 27Ē shot my 476 grain arrow 270 fps. My htx was 250-252. How do you like the black eagles?


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Old 10-13-2017, 11:25 AM   #41
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If I shot a bow with a higher ibo Iíd be all about this. A halon 32 at 70 lbs and 27Ē shot my 476 grain arrow 270 fps. My htx was 250-252. How do you like the black eagles?


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Short answer, Im not sure yet, for me anyway. Just started hunting with them this year.

Im shooting them from a heli-m at 28" and 65#. I cant tell you how fast or slow it is cause Ive never really chrono'd it. With either arrow. The video system Bowzone has showed in the 250-254 fps range with the FMJs

Inside 20 yards I can stack both arrows (busted at black eagle yesterday). They hit the target like a train and group better outside 40. I havent shot an animal with them yet so thats still in the air. I did shoot under a pig at about 30 that seemed to hear the arrow or the bow one.

As mentioned, the furthest Ive shot an animal in my bow career is about 32 yards and that was a pig last week with the FMJ. Most of my deer have been inside 25 and passing through deer or breaking offside shoulder hadnt been an issue with the FMJ.

I asked muddy for an arrow that grouped better at longer distance and to hit harder and thats what he built me. No doubt about that. I cant remember the insert weight but they ended up 18% FOC with 100 grain heads
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:05 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Archery1st View Post
While I agree weight is important. I'll take speed and less arrow drop first with adequate weight.

My setup is 29.5" / 74lbs - 390 gr arrow @ 315 fps. I shoot the same setup for Whitetail, Axis, Mule deer and Elk. I have shot several Elk past 50 yards and never had a problem with penetration. Most don't passthrough as I try to hit the opposite shoulder.

Point being you were fine where you were - 280 fps & 430Gr arrow will kill anything in North America with proper shot placement.

If you hit solid bone on a Elk, Axis, Mule deer or even a big whitetail - it is not going to matter.
Your set up may work for you. But even if he was shooting the same bow as you he's 2.5 inches shorter. That's 25 ft difference. So your 390 at 315 would put him with a 390 at 290. In slug-ft/s he has 8.5% less force. I know that dosent would like much but it is. He has the same problem I have short arms. So we have to make it up with heavier arrows and different types of broadheads.

I'm not sure what you mention solid bone won't matter. A good head with a good arrow bone breaks.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:50 PM   #43
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If you're really thinking of switching for the sake of speed, I would still recommend keeping it at or below 285. Beyond that it gets harder to properly tune browdheads. Sounds like you got that with your 430 grain setup. I'd just go back to that or find a similar 430 grain setup with more FOC
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:03 PM   #44
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If you're really thinking of switching for the sake of speed, I would still recommend keeping it at or below 285. Beyond that it gets harder to properly tune browdheads. Sounds like you got that with your 430 grain setup. I'd just go back to that or find a similar 430 grain setup with more FOC


Iíd be open to a 430 grain set up with higher foc if I can find arrows as durable and reliable as the axis. These things have been awesome for me. Iíve broken a couple but they either got stuck in wood or a friend broke a couple hitting hard plastic inserts in a deer target. They were glancing blows on the deer target. The wood one broke trying to get it out


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Old 10-13-2017, 03:09 PM   #45
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Your set up may work for you. But even if he was shooting the same bow as you he's 2.5 inches shorter. That's 25 ft difference. So your 390 at 315 would put him with a 390 at 290. In slug-ft/s he has 8.5% less force. I know that dosent would like much but it is. He has the same problem I have short arms. So we have to make it up with heavier arrows and different types of broadheads.

I'm not sure what you mention solid bone won't matter. A good head with a good arrow bone breaks.
Solid bone = Big Whitetail, Axis, Mule Deer or Elk if you hit the leg bone dead on odds are highly likely it will not break.

I've seen others on more than one occasion whitetail hit in the elbow the arrow does not penetrate.

Years ago I personally hit a cow elk in the shoulder with a 485 gr arrow at 25 yards and the broadhead was the only thing with blood on it. The cow elk lived.

I've also seen a girl shooting 40 lbs with a 25" draw and a 280 grain arrow blow clean through the scapula and ribs on a big whitetail.

Again nothing wrong with weight, but it's more about shot placement. The original setup was more than adequate on any North American game.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:14 PM   #46
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Iíd be open to a 430 grain set up with higher foc if I can find arrows as durable and reliable as the axis. These things have been awesome for me. Iíve broken a couple but they either got stuck in wood or a friend broke a couple hitting hard plastic inserts in a deer target. They were glancing blows on the deer target. The wood one broke trying to get it out


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I like my Black Eagle carnivores. You can really play with the FOC on them between point weights and such. As far as being tough, i can't really comment because I baby my equipment.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:16 PM   #47
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I like my Black Eagle carnivores. You can really play with the FOC on them between point weights and such. As far as being tough, i can't really comment because I baby my equipment.


Do they come in a 5mm shaft like axis


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Old 10-13-2017, 03:19 PM   #48
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Do they come in a 5mm shaft like axis


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No. They are a .244 I believe or something like that. You may want to go out and shop for arrows to see what all out there meets your desires and go from there. You seem to have what you want narrowed down, which should make shopping a bit easier. A few companies to look at:

Black Eagle
Element
Easton
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:32 PM   #49
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So Iím drawing 70 lbs and 27Ē draw on a Mathews no cam htx. I recently had my DL shortened from 27.5Ē. I had my arrows cut down and added 75 grain inserts. I was at 430 grain and 280 fps and now Iím at 476 grain and 250 fps. Shooting Easton axis 340 5mm.

I didnít realize how drastic the drop was going to be out to 40 and 50 yards. Iím sure I have a TON of momentum and KE now but did I over do it? Is there a set up that would give me adequate momentum and KE and put me closer to 285-290 fps? Totally getting discouraged here on loss of fps and sloooooooow arrow at longer range.


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I did basically the same thing except shorten my draw.(heavy arrow + 75 grain insert) Went from 400 grain to 500 grain arrow. Like you I was a little taken back at the drop but I love the quietness of the bow and how well the heavy arrow shots everything(FP all kinds of BH same POE). Just going to have to pay more attention to distance. Before the change I was good out to 30yards....now if its past 22ish I need to consider bumping the single pin. DXT 28draw 65lbs
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:43 PM   #50
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you have basically my exact set-up ---- it works great!!! Don't worry about the speed
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