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Old 01-20-2012, 09:56 AM   #101
M-2
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Originally Posted by meangene1969 View Post
It will work but you need to really know your distances from your stand
Gene, do you and Tanya (and Jeff and Rachel) gap shoot? I'm still trying to figure out how all of y'all got so gooooood!
I know the original Archery Goddesses, Lisa and Sheryl, use this method with great success. They told me they started out laying rocks at specific distances and practiced often enough to where they KNEW exactly what the distance to a target was. I'll never have (or make) the time to figure this out myself, lol.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #102
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I tried and tried but I can't do it.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #103
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The problem with gap shooting for 3-D is that it requires two things I no longer have... the ability to judge distance and the ability to remember your gaps...
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:22 PM   #104
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Lol mike ill use a range finder and write my gaps on a piece of white tape put that on the belly side of my bow
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:34 PM   #105
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Lol mike ill use a range finder and write my gaps on a piece of white tape put that on the belly side of my bow
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #106
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Lol Deb I forgot that he mentioned 3d....I would take that as my method wouldn't be in the rules?
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:12 PM   #107
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For the record I've never been to a 3d shoot I am hoping to make Chester
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:46 PM   #108
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For the record I've never been to a 3d shoot I am hoping to make Chester
I hope you do, its a great shoot. No cheat sheet taped to your bow though.
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:55 PM   #109
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You guys are making this too complicated for using gap for hunting. I never think about distance or what gap I will use for a shot. The bow just goes where the point is where it is supposed to be automatically. It's a lot like instinctive but you actually see the arrow.

If I was going to shoot 3d using gap I would close one eye and actually aim, using the point as a sight and really think over the yardages. For hunting I think that is just too complicated and would be slow to get a shot off.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:01 PM   #110
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Gene, do you and Tanya (and Jeff and Rachel) gap shoot? I'm still trying to figure out how all of y'all got so gooooood!
I know the original Archery Goddesses, Lisa and Sheryl, use this method with great success. They told me they started out laying rocks at specific distances and practiced often enough to where they KNEW exactly what the distance to a target was. I'll never have (or make) the time to figure this out myself, lol.
No we don't. I have tried it several times but I don't like it. That being said I do know what my point on is so I can shoot farther distances. I agree with alot of what Draco has stated but it does take alot of practice.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:06 PM   #111
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Draco, I tried this method and my arrows consistently hit to the right of the vertical line. Basically at 10 yards I aim 12" low and about 3" to the left to hit dead center. I am compensating by aiming to the left but is this normal? Also, will canting affect this in any way? You appear to be canting in the first pic. Thanks.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:47 PM   #112
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You should try to get your arrows in horizontal alignment with what your trying to hit Lefty. You may need to try stiffer shafts or a lighter point weight or maybe adjusting your fistmele. You will have to ask Rick about the fistmele adjustment as I've been doing it wrong for the last 45 years.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:33 AM   #113
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Thanks for the help Draco. I will play around with my arrows and see if I can get it worked out. I am not familiar with fistmele but will do a search and see what I find that may help.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:51 PM   #114
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I think Fistmele = brace height?
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:09 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Bowtech Lefty View Post
Draco, I tried this method and my arrows consistently hit to the right of the vertical line. Basically at 10 yards I aim 12" low and about 3" to the left to hit dead center. I am compensating by aiming to the left but is this normal? Also, will canting affect this in any way? You appear to be canting in the first pic. Thanks.
There is a great section on canting in the "Become The Arrow" book by Byron Ferguson and, yes; according to his statements and diagrams, canting will help this. Apparently there is a degree of cant that the bow will dictate and his method will help you determine that.

Of course, it could be one of the issues Draco mentioned as well

J.P.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #116
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Excellent post Draco.

As Deb said - your head position & anchor are almost exactly like mine, except I anchor one finger higher, and use my middle finger at the corner of my mouth instead of the index Finger.

I shoot canted, and the method works just as well canted as it does shooting the bow vertical.

I also shoot right handed, but am left eye dominant. I shoot left eye closed, and have no problem with it at all. I draw & anchor with both eyes open to set my depth perception, but then close the left eye, make the slight windage adjustment required, and leterrip.

Works very well for me, and I have never seen it explained in a better way than this.

Rick
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:09 PM   #117
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That is exactly what a friend of mine does Rick. Just a split second before he hits anchor, the eye closes and the shot is gone. He is an excellent shot I might add.

The cant is needed to make up for anchoring on the side of our faces. As the bow is canted, our eye moves to the right, the arrow to the left. This is what we have to do to center the back of the arrow under our eye so we are looking right down the arrow shaft. Other wise we would have to anchor in the center of our mouth and not in the corner and the string would be on the tip of our nose like target archers.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:23 PM   #118
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Glad this got bumped. Reads very well and is very teachable. I only shoot compound, but teach kids finger shooting on a Genesis with no sight. I had tried to explain gap aiming in my own words, but this makes it a lot easier. Thanks muchly!!
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:10 AM   #119
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I know this thread has been here a while but I found it very helpful! I have been trying to shoot instinctively and sometimes at 35 yds I have 2 arrows 2" apart (luck) and other times at 10 yds I have 2 arrows 9" apart. If I didn't burn a hole through the target or if I got distracted a sit second before the shot, who knows where the arrow would go. I just tried this tonight and after a slight modification to my anchor. I am rubbing feathers and they are going where I want them too! This is too cool.

Thanks Draco for posting this. The pictures really brought it all together!
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:05 AM   #120
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I do not gap shoot but this sounds reasonable and obviously works. One thing I have seen gappers do when they hunt from a blind is to put out yardage markers. Rocks or sticks at 15-20-30 & 40 yards. I have shot so many arrows I no longer think about how I do it. If I ever do, I usually miss.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:28 AM   #121
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I talked to Draco about this at the Weavers and when I got home I dug this thread up and re-read it. I think that I have shot at so many distances for so long that it gives me the same thing. I don't know where the point is relation to my target. but I hit what I'm looking at. This was from just shooting one heck of a lot of arrows
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:38 AM   #122
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i ve used my system for years on my long bows , which is preety much like this , and its always been spot on for me . there is never any guess work on my shot ,its a calculated,designed shot that produces leathal hits. i posted it in flywise thread on "shooting farther"
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:37 AM   #123
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great tutorial on a gap method
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:47 AM   #124
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might have to try this on a recurve
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:03 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by gettin closer View Post
I know this thread has been here a while but I found it very helpful! I have been trying to shoot instinctively and sometimes at 35 yds I have 2 arrows 2" apart (luck) and other times at 10 yds I have 2 arrows 9" apart. If I didn't burn a hole through the target or if I got distracted a sit second before the shot, who knows where the arrow would go. I just tried this tonight and after a slight modification to my anchor. I am rubbing feathers and they are going where I want them too! This is too cool.

Thanks Draco for posting this. The pictures really brought it all together!
You are quite welcome and I'm glad it helped. While this method isn't for every one, it is quite fast to learn. How ever it will not work, nor any other method, with out good basic form. Make sure your form stays good.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:15 PM   #126
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I talked to Draco about this at the Weavers and when I got home I dug this thread up and re-read it. I think that I have shot at so many distances for so long that it gives me the same thing. I don't know where the point is relation to my target. but I hit what I'm looking at. This was from just shooting one heck of a lot of arrows
The best part of this method Ron is that it is fast to learn. As I'm sure you know, it can take years to really get instinctive down at all ranges to the point that you feel confident. Also, it allows you to get "on" with a strange bow very quickly even if the arrows are not spined corectly for the bow with you shooting it. You can allow for windage as well as up and down. I've shot other peoples bows at Double G's, Bisch's, Smooth Boars, Pauls and others and within a few arrows I am on.

Now if I could get people to think more on shooting healthy so they could shoot longer into life with out wrist, elbow and shoulder problems. I may do a thread on that some day.
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Old 01-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #127
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Bump to the top for us newbies. This post should be a sticky. Great information, it appears, for both beginners and seasoned veterans.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:47 PM   #128
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That sucks. I guess I'll need to weigh the benefits out versus the increase of noise. Shooting split finger and instictive has been working ok for me, but I tend to have a wild flier now and again. Usually high or low. This system would eliminate that. What to do, what to do. Thanks for the replies.

Matt
To eliminate the occasional flyer, quit watching Bisch shoot! When he does that double clutch heebie geebie thing he does, it will screw up anybody!! Hi Bisch!! I started the gap method of shooting back when I had to wear glasses. I have shot this method long enough that it seems it has almost gone full circle back to being instinctive. Thanks Draco for posting this up, you explained very well!
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:58 PM   #129
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Draco, tried this this evening, liked to fell over how quick and easy this method was, only took a few shots and really didn't think distance, more like recognizing range, if that makes sense! I'm a believer!
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:42 PM   #130
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To eliminate the occasional flyer, quit watching Bisch shoot! When he does that double clutch heebie geebie thing he does, it will screw up anybody!! Hi Bisch!! I started the gap method of shooting back when I had to wear glasses. I have shot this method long enough that it seems it has almost gone full circle back to being instinctive. Thanks Draco for posting this up, you explained very well!
I laughed so hard I snorted!! LOL!!! Oh...what is more fun than jabbing at Bisch ?
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:45 PM   #131
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Draco, tried this this evening, liked to fell over how quick and easy this method was, only took a few shots and really didn't think distance, more like recognizing range, if that makes sense! I'm a believer!
Clay,

I hope that this means that you and your shoulders are getting back in the "Trad Game"!!
Just nod your head and go on with it man!!!! LOL!!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:52 PM   #132
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Hi Kevin, it was more elbow than anything, fixed my form, well working on it!
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #133
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Clay,

I'm sorry I forgot that you were experiencing a severe tendinitis thing in the elbow instead of a shoulder problem when we last corresponded. I think that I must have subconsciously imposed my own shoulder fears into the mix...thinking about the "He Man" draw weight that your compound was set at. "Ouch"!!! I'd come apart like nobody's business if I tried drawing that weight. LOL!!!

Well I sure hope that you get to shooting "Trad" again so that we see you sharing some of your shooting and hunting expertise with us!! Clay is a sure enough hunter/outdoorsman and has lots of savvy to share!!!
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:58 PM   #134
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Have tried gap shooting in the past, but my poor eye sight at close range forbids it. I can see the target fairly clear but any part of the arrow shaft is so blurred it all runs together.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #135
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Draco, tried this this evening, liked to fell over how quick and easy this method was, only took a few shots and really didn't think distance, more like recognizing range, if that makes sense! I'm a believer!
It only works good if your form and relese is good. Bad form and release won't work with any system.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #136
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Finally got time to read through this. So where do I start if my point has to be left or right from the center line to hit dead on? Do I need to start over with my arrows and change lengths to get them to be "point on". I"m not doing bad instinctive but I'm just not confident enough to hunt. I'm hoping gap shooting will push me over the edge but I don't want to ruin a dozen arrows trying to figure it out. Any advice?
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:59 PM   #137
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This has been some great discussion for a newbie...thanks.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:43 PM   #138
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Another new guy here. This is how I've been shooting for years, I just was never able to explain it the way you have.
Have not shot much the past 1 1/2 years due to torn rotor cuff and surgery but getting stronger and have started shooting again.
I love this forum!
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #139
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When I was shooting trad at the 4H shoots in junior high and high school, this was the method I used, never though about using a box, I just used trial and error, had all three of the distance memorized. It is a really effective method of shooting and I took to it well, if I ever get back into shooting with trad gear this will be the method I use.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:35 PM   #140
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Thanks for sharing. Im just getting into this and can already see where this will help me!
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:37 PM   #141
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I am going to have to make a pattern and go try this out. anything to help "zero" in a little better.
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #142
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Great info I need all the pointers I can get.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:13 AM   #143
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I shoot a recurve and also use the gap. All I would add is if you use field tips in practice but do hunt with your traditional bow do yourself a favor and make sure your broad heads are all mounted ,glued or screwed on the exact same . It makes gap shooting alot more easy. Because you can actually see the "end of the projectile" the exact same angle,and see the exact same length. If some are verticle and some are horizontal I started hitting high on some and low on others. I wish I had a pic becaus Im no good at putting in words what Im trying to say. Im sure its a rookie thing that most wont make the mistake I did. Hope I helped someone.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:08 PM   #144
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Eager to give this a try and see if it helps.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:09 PM   #145
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Going to give this a good try. From instinctive, split finger to gap 3 under should be challenging but if it improves my consistency it will be well worth it.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:01 AM   #146
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I've been shooting a longbow for about a year now. I started split finger, then after some lessons, went to 3 under to shorten my gap. I am having a very difficult time actually pointing the arrow on the correct gap. I don't know if it's a target panic problem or inability to "aim" correctly.

One problem is that I try to draw my bow high or level with the gap for my range, but inevitably when I reach full draw, I am "aiming" low and have to try and raise my bow hand to set the gap.

Any ideas?
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Old 12-05-2014, 05:02 PM   #147
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It may be the bow and it will be some thing you will have to get used to. Different bows tend to come to target better for different people. It is the thing I like best about my Pronghorn, I come up and it is where it needs to be.
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Old 12-06-2014, 09:27 AM   #148
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That's a good point, and this is the only longbow I've ever shot and the only time I've shot a recurve was 30 years ago as a kid.

I was wondering whether I should lean back at the waist slightly to correct the aim vs. trying to raise my bow arm- perhaps that would be better form?

I'll try to get in for some more instruction soon.

Thanks for all the help and info on this thread!
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:03 AM   #149
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I'm going to throw my story in here.

When I started shooting trad, I instinctively employed gap shooting principles. No one really taught me, it just made sense. It's how my brain works. Now, I didn't get all fancy with measuring how much to "hold under" to be spot on. Instead, by trial and error, I'd figure it out in my brain what the "site picture" should look like given how far away I seemed to be. Given my lack of depth preception due to a birth defect with my vision, I was always forced to guesstimate distance (or use my range finder.)

Then, I started reading about instinctive shooting and the need to focus on a spot on just hit. Well, I tried this for a long time, but I just couldn't get nearly the accuracy I had with how I started. I had degraded. But like learning anything new, I had to give it time. It wasn't until very recently that I determined that I just wasn't comfortable with just focusing on one spot; but rather I needed to see the whole picture as a painting. When I do that, my brain actually relaxes and my accuracy goes way up.

So, I guess you can say, I shoot gap, instinctively
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:11 PM   #150
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I'm going to throw my story in here.

When I started shooting trad, I instinctively employed gap shooting principles. No one really taught me, it just made sense. It's how my brain works. Now, I didn't get all fancy with measuring how much to "hold under" to be spot on. Instead, by trial and error, I'd figure it out in my brain what the "site picture" should look like given how far away I seemed to be. Given my lack of depth preception due to a birth defect with my vision, I was always forced to guesstimate distance (or use my range finder.)

Then, I started reading about instinctive shooting and the need to focus on a spot on just hit. Well, I tried this for a long time, but I just couldn't get nearly the accuracy I had with how I started. I had degraded. But like learning anything new, I had to give it time. It wasn't until very recently that I determined that I just wasn't comfortable with just focusing on one spot; but rather I needed to see the whole picture as a painting. When I do that, my brain actually relaxes and my accuracy goes way up.

So, I guess you can say, I shoot gap, instinctively
I can say I'm a gap-instinctive shooter as well.
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