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Old 11-02-2017, 10:32 AM   #1
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Default GOP Tax Plan

What is not to get behind on this plan?[/IMG]

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Old 11-02-2017, 10:37 AM   #2
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Earned income tax credit......

If you don't pay any taxes but they send you a check for 5 or 6 thousand dollars just for being alive..... UGH
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:42 AM   #3
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THis seems to be a large improvement from what they were going to push out.

What they are doing in regaurd to the Mortgage Interest Deduction will effect how people purchase houses going forward.
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:10 AM   #4
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Earned income tax credit......

If you don't pay any taxes but they send you a check for 5 or 6 thousand dollars just for being alive..... UGH
Stupidest thing ever. Should make every single working American puke a little.
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:56 AM   #5
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Stupidest thing ever. Should make every single working American puke a little.
I think it does, maybe just most.
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Old 11-02-2017, 12:06 PM   #6
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Earned income credit......................

It's to buy votes,nothing more.

DJ
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Old 11-02-2017, 02:09 PM   #7
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Does nothing for the middle class people like me! My taxes will stay the same, complete BS!!!
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Old 11-02-2017, 07:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Buff View Post
Earned income tax credit......

If you don't pay any taxes but they send you a check for 5 or 6 thousand dollars just for being alive..... UGH
This credit has been in the system for years , nothing new except the increase
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:10 PM   #9
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Earned income tax credit......

If you don't pay any taxes but they send you a check for 5 or 6 thousand dollars just for being alive..... UGH
Yep, money one might have "earned" if one weren't a slack ***, loser.
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Old 11-03-2017, 06:30 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by DJM View Post
Earned income credit......................

It's to buy votes,nothing more.

DJ
But what's the return on that investment?
How many that received EIC actually voted GOP?
Let me be more specific, how many that live in Den strongholds that received EIC voted GOP?

I think veerrrry little
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:44 AM   #11
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Earned income credit......................

It's to buy votes,nothing more.

DJ
It's "wealth redistribution" plain and simple.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:49 AM   #12
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It's "wealth redistribution" plain and simple.
..........to buy votes.

DJ
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:12 AM   #13
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It's "wealth redistribution" plain and simple.
And I don't think anyone can argue since it's fact.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:12 AM   #14
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Www.taxpolicycenter.org

Looks like a winner for corporate tax and no real benefit for most Americans.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:14 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Humper View Post
Www.taxpolicycenter.org

Looks like a winner for corporate tax and no real benefit for most Americans.
If corporate America has more money to invest back into the company and into the economy then its a win for every American.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:18 AM   #16
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It’s a win for stockholders not so much for the national debt. Lots of assumptions and predictions that are iffy.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:25 AM   #17
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Earned income tax credit......

If you don't pay any taxes but they send you a check for 5 or 6 thousand dollars just for being alive..... UGH
I have always said, imagine how fast we could reduce our deficit if we simply made a law that you cannot get more in a refund than you have paid in. Think how much money that would save our government.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:28 AM   #18
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I have always said, imagine how fast we could reduce our deficit if we simply made a law that you cannot get more in a refund than you have paid in. Think how much money that would save our government.
like that idea
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:25 AM   #19
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Itís a win for stockholders not so much for the national debt. Lots of assumptions and predictions that are iffy.
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Humper View Post
Www.taxpolicycenter.org

Looks like a winner for corporate tax and no real benefit for most Americans.
I hear and see this thought regurgitated often, but without examples or validity. If you do the simple math you can see the benefits of this new proposal. I'll save you some time with the following:

Plain and simple, this proposal affects most of us, and in a good way.
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:10 PM   #21
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If corporate America has more money to invest back into the company and into the economy then its a win for every American.
That's not what happens.
Usually those profits are stored offshore so they aren't taxed
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Old 11-03-2017, 12:19 PM   #22
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That's not what happens.
Usually those profits are stored offshore so they aren't taxed
The reason they are/were stored offshore is because of the high tax rate. Make it reasonable you will see it come back.
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Old 11-03-2017, 03:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DJM View Post
..........to buy votes.

DJ
great taste...!
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:06 PM   #24
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The reason they are/were stored offshore is because of the high tax rate. Make it reasonable you will see it come back.
LoL it's not taxed at all abroad.
But that money is also left offshore because its easier to get things done abroad when the money already sits in a local bank
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Old 11-03-2017, 04:42 PM   #25
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I'm amazed at how many people oppose these changes on FB.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
I have always said, imagine how fast we could reduce our deficit if we simply made a law that you cannot get more in a refund than you have paid in. Think how much money that would save our government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonA View Post
like that idea
Shut up and keep paying your fair share!
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:51 PM   #27
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Yeah...it's a good plan for corporate & should help them grow / hire more folks / raises etc. They did good there but they are failing miserably on the personal side, specifically middle class where it is needed most.
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Old 11-03-2017, 05:54 PM   #28
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This is the same angle most people are taking, and I'm not sure why. The only other angle I'm seeing is from opposing politicians that think these changes only help extremely wealthy folks
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Old 11-05-2017, 02:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Buff View Post
Earned income tax credit......

If you don't pay any taxes but they send you a check for 5 or 6 thousand dollars just for being alive..... UGH
X2

I think EVERYONE should pay Taxes. No Taxes - you have nothing at stake for the success of this country. This also helps to finance single mothers and keep fathers out of the picture. It's an unintended consequence that is destroying families.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:58 PM   #31
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That was the first salvo! There will be multiple changes before this thing is finalized. As some noted above I am sure it will be super crappy by the time it comes to a head/vote!
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:14 AM   #32
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Just out if curiousity, does anyone have any data on company hiring rates when their tax rates are lowered? I just dont see it being logical for any company to go on a hiring binge just because they receive a tax cut, especially if they dont need more people. I know my company sure wouldnt, because we dont have enough work to warrant more people (oil industry). Hell, they'd probably keep laying us off.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:20 PM   #33
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Just out if curiousity, does anyone have any data on company hiring rates when their tax rates are lowered? I just dont see it being logical for any company to go on a hiring binge just because they receive a tax cut, especially if they dont need more people. I know my company sure wouldnt, because we dont have enough work to warrant more people (oil industry). Hell, they'd probably keep laying us off.
For wages to show any real increase, corporate taxes must be lowered AND the labor supply must be held constant. Until we get a border wall built and the flow of cheap labor from Mexico slowed substantially, corporations will feel no pressure to increase wages.

Trump is betting the tax relief will bring back more jobs that were offshored in prior years than will be automated out of existence by robots funded by tax cuts on companies. It's both supply and demand pressure keeping wages low while corporate profits are high.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:47 AM   #34
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Corporations are going to need more money when the Federal government doubles the minimum wage.....
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:33 PM   #35
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For wages to show any real increase, corporate taxes must be lowered AND the labor supply must be held constant. Until we get a border wall built and the flow of cheap labor from Mexico slowed substantially, corporations will feel no pressure to increase wages.

Trump is betting the tax relief will bring back more jobs that were offshored in prior years than will be automated out of existence by robots funded by tax cuts on companies. It's both supply and demand pressure keeping wages low while corporate profits are high.
Valid for jobs where cheap foreign labor is competitive, but what about those that don't have much cheap foreign labor competition and are at the point where further hires would give significant diminishing returns, regardless if they had a tax break? They wouldnt be hiring, and any tax break for said companies would be a significant net loss in tax revenue as no new hires would be added to the tax base.

My driving point is that I dont see how an across the board corporate tax reduction incentivizes increased wages or hiring, in fact, it incentivizes nothing. Rather it is made in the hope that those things will follow.

I think it would be better if the tax code were modified to specifically incentivize increasing wages or hiring: say for example, doubling the tax writeoff for new employees for X number of years after hiring, or doubling the tax writeoff on raises. This would incentivizing hiring or wage increases, without giving a blank check to those companies that dont need new hires or intend to give raises.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 11-07-2017, 03:41 PM   #36
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If corporate tax rates are reduced, that will make it easier for companies who have operations overseas to move more operations (and jobs) to the US. By making the tax penalty of doing business here less severe, more of those operations and jobs will be moved here. It won't happen overnight, obviously. But it will happen if the cost of doing business here isn't prohibitive, compared to the cost of doing business somewhere else.
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:16 PM   #37
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I own a company, but we only have 5 employees. The lower tax rate would certainly be nice for my company, but I won't hire employees because of it. I hire employees based solely on my work load and how many will be needed. Salaries are based on job duties, experience, regional pay range, and work loads, not on how much federal or state taxes I pay.

I'm not sure how realistic these projections are for increased tax revenue due to trickle down economics. It looks to me like this tax plan would raise our national debt significantly. I thought the R party was more about reducing national debt, which I'm all for.

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Old 11-08-2017, 01:49 PM   #38
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I own a company, but we only have 5 employees. The lower tax rate would certainly be nice for my company, but I won't hire employees because of it. I hire employees based solely on my work load and how many will be needed. Salaries are based on job duties, experience, regional pay range, and work loads, not on how much federal or state taxes I pay.

I'm not sure how realistic these projections are for increased tax revenue due to trickle down economics. It looks to me like this tax plan would raise our national debt significantly. I thought the R party was more about reducing national debt, which I'm all for.

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The national debt should be paid down by reducing out of control spending not by continually raising the tax burden. If we don't control spending no amount of taxes are ever gonna get us out of debt. Hopefully we can tackle the spending problems too and stop spending more than we got coming in.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:24 PM   #39
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What happened to the flat tax?
How much did you earn?
Multiply by 5%
Send it in.

If you make $10k or $10 million per year.


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Old 11-08-2017, 07:14 PM   #40
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The national debt should be paid down by reducing out of control spending not by continually raising the tax burden. If we don't control spending no amount of taxes are ever gonna get us out of debt. Hopefully we can tackle the spending problems too and stop spending more than we got coming in.
And this GOP administration is raising the budget once again.
Increased spending
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:39 PM   #41
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I'm not sure how realistic these projections are for increased tax revenue due to trickle down economics. It looks to me like this tax plan would raise our national debt significantly. I thought the R party was more about reducing national debt, which I'm all for.

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Hey, hey, hey, ............u not supposed to see the wizard behind the curtain!!!
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Originally Posted by Bill in San Jose View Post
What happened to the flat tax?
How much did you earn?
Multiply by 5%
Send it in.

If you make $10k or $10 million per year.


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U are mudding the water with that hogwash.........LOL!!! That WAS NEVER EVER on the table and it was just part of OUR imaginations.
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Originally Posted by texansfan View Post
And this GOP administration is raising the budget once again.
Increased spending
Hey u dang radical.......nobody is supposed to let the serf's to know we are doing what we have been doing for, humm, well, 35 years!!!!
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:55 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
By making the tax penalty of doing business here less severe, more of those operations and jobs will be moved here. It won't happen overnight, obviously.
Some might, but for the most part, how do we compete with the cheap labor, property prices/taxes, and lack of government oversight of third world countries? Lower taxes doesn't even come close to evening the scales.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by sir shovelhands View Post
Some might, but for the most part, how do we compete with the cheap labor, property prices/taxes, and lack of government oversight of third world countries? Lower taxes doesn't even come close to evening the scales.
Smart man.

Not to mention the EPA regulations we have in this country.

You ever tried getting a 1960s bumper chrome plated?
How about trying to start a battery manufacturing plant?
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Bill in San Jose View Post
What happened to the flat tax?
How much did you earn?
Multiply by 5%
Send it in.

If you make $10k or $10 million per year.


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But how would those who earn zero get 5 or 6k back?
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Old 11-13-2017, 04:22 PM   #45
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But how would those who earn zero get 5 or 6k back?





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Old 11-13-2017, 07:19 PM   #46
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https://taxnews.ey.com/news/2017-184...s-and-jobs-act

Some highlights. The provisions affecting individuals are estimated to reduce taxes by $929 billion over 10 years, while the provisions affecting businesses are estimated to reduce taxes by $561 billion over 10 years. The individual provisions include the benefits of the plan's lower individual income tax rate on pass-through business income.
To put the breadth of these changes into perspective, the Congressional Budget Office projects the US income tax system (individual and corporate income taxes) to raise, under current law, $25.9 trillion over 10 years — $22.0 trillion through the individual income tax and $3.9 trillion through the corporate income tax. Over the 10-year budget window, the JCT estimates the bill to reduce individual income taxes (including the lower tax rate on certain pass-through income) by 4% and corporate income taxes by 14%.

I think the fundamental questions/issues are:
1. How does a corporate tax cut benefit the country (the labor/workers or the shareholders)? This is not an easy answer but the GOP argues it is the workers who bear the tax burden and thus will benefit from a corporate cut. While i agree we need to be competitive, we are still going to be way higher than Ireland (12.5%) and many other foreign countries.
2. Assuming this tax cut creates new jobs, how do you fill them when the US is basically at full employment right now based on the rate of unemployment? GOP must figure out a way to make immigration work to fill these news jobs.
3. The deficit - this will not get much if any Dem support to get to a super majority, so you should expect the tax cuts to phase out over a 10 year window because the plan will add to the deficit beyond the 10 year budget window as it currently stands. This way the senate can pass as a budget reconciliation measure with 51 votes (not even sure they can get that). No doubt it will get watered down over the coming weeks.

Personally, it won't change my effective rate too much. I have two kids so don't benefit greatly from the personal exemptions. I don't itemize so will get some help from the increased standard deduction. I don't expect a big raise at work based on a corporate tax cut for many reasons. Hopefully our owner will save some cash and have some dry powder for the next recession so that we can be aggressive in acquisitions.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:56 PM   #47
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This also helps to finance single mothers and keep fathers out of the picture. It's an unintended consequence that is destroying families.
I have been saying this for years! Im not so sure it is unintended though.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:14 AM   #48
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2. how do you fill them when the US is basically at full employment right now based on the rate of unemployment?
Wait, I thought everyone here believed the BLS stats were BS and that there was significantly higher unemployment; I mean, it's not like they changed their metrics...
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:39 AM   #49
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Wait, I thought everyone here believed the BLS stats were BS and that there was significantly higher unemployment; I mean, it's not like they changed their metrics...
Regardless of the "official" statistics, I can tell you it is very tough to fill positions in our line of business right now and our subs and homebuilders are struggling even more to find labor. Quite a bit has to do with immigration. And heaven help us if we actually pass an infrastructure bill! That will require a huge amount of labor!
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:38 PM   #50
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Wait, I thought everyone here believed the BLS stats were BS and that there was significantly higher unemployment; I mean, it's not like they changed their metrics...
Ouch
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