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    #46
    Originally posted by WItoTX View Post
    A person could hunt these monuments prior to the re-designation yesterday...the land was basically treated like a Wilderness area. I would much prefer it stay a wilderness area rather than let cars an trucks and bikes in. More habitat that lazy American's refuse to walk to, and I can hunt.


    A person could hunt these lands before OBAMA made them monuments. Not after. That's exactly why the people that live there threw fits. The Feds gated roads and made it illegal to cross onto these lands. Lazy or not, a few million acres is a big place. if you can't camp on it or drive on it, or ride a horse on it, you can't GET to it. Unless you have wings you can't use it. You want to walk? Fine! Now you can. I would rather drive to this wilderness and hunt it, just like it has been for decades.

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      #47
      Originally posted by Lostacresranch View Post
      A person could hunt these lands before OBAMA made them monuments. Not after. That's exactly why the people that live there threw fits. The Feds gated roads and made it illegal to cross onto these lands. Lazy or not, a few million acres is a big place. if you can't camp on it or drive on it, or ride a horse on it, you can't GET to it. Unless you have wings you can't use it. You want to walk? Fine! Now you can. I would rather drive to this wilderness and hunt it, just like it has been for decades.
      That's incorrect. You could hunt them before. Feel free to check the websites associated with each park. There may have been area's off limits, but most wasn't.

      Also, Wilderness is a designation, which means no mechanical means of travel are allowed, and the area is free from development. That's essentially what these monuments were.

      To be clear, I don't care one way or another, because in the end, nothing changed. Just a label. Glad the land is still BLM/USFS. I am glad the land didn't go back to the state is all.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by WItoTX View Post


        That's incorrect. You could hunt them before. Feel free to check the websites associated with each park. There may have been area's off limits, but most wasn't.



        Also, Wilderness is a designation, which means no mechanical means of travel are allowed, and the area is free from development. That's essentially what these monuments were.



        To be clear, I don't care one way or another, because in the end, nothing changed. Just a label. Glad the land is still BLM/USFS. I am glad the land didn't go back to the state is all.


        If you are glad the lands are under control of the federal government, then I doubt you can be persuaded to understand that under the antiquities act, this land was off limited to recreational uses. You say some areas were off limits? VAST areas were removed from use. That means no hunting, fishing, camping. That's why the citizens of Utah were enraged by this. Teump returned it back to what it was before, allowing hunting. If you think that's wrong, that's your opinion, but this also means millions of acres removed by OBAMA in other states will be returned, and now the BLM and USFWS will no longer look at hunters as trespassers.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Lostacresranch View Post
          If you are glad the lands are under control of the federal government, then I doubt you can be persuaded to understand that under the antiquities act, this land was off limited to recreational uses. You say some areas were off limits? VAST areas were removed from use. That means no hunting, fishing, camping. That's why the citizens of Utah were enraged by this. Teump returned it back to what it was before, allowing hunting. If you think that's wrong, that's your opinion, but this also means millions of acres removed by OBAMA in other states will be returned, and now the BLM and USFWS will no longer look at hunters as trespassers.
          You could always hunt the property... Read paragraph 7.

          https://www.grindtv.com/nature/every...s-controversy/

          Folks gotta ease up off the FoxNews and back country hunters and anglers spin and see what really happened.

          There is a huge potential economic benefit to open this area to mining. Also, tourists might now be able to use a road to go check it out. All these things are good, within reason.

          A downside is that some of these areas are excellent bighorn sheep habitat. With the way they are susceptible to disease, it could be very bad for them. Especially if sheep farmers allow their domestic sheep onto this property.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by WItoTX View Post
            You could always hunt the property... Read paragraph 7.

            https://www.grindtv.com/nature/every...s-controversy/

            Folks gotta ease up off the FoxNews and back country hunters and anglers spin and see what really happened.

            There is a huge potential economic benefit to open this area to mining. Also, tourists might now be able to use a road to go check it out. All these things are good, within reason.

            A downside is that some of these areas are excellent bighorn sheep habitat. With the way they are susceptible to disease, it could be very bad for them. Especially if sheep farmers allow their domestic sheep onto this property.


            They would need permits to do that and im sure the state would only do that if the wildlife dept. said it was ok

            Comment


              #51
              More Public Land Gone

              Originally posted by WItoTX View Post
              You could always hunt the property... Read paragraph 7.







              Folks gotta ease up off the FoxNews and back country hunters and anglers spin and see what really happened.



              There is a huge potential economic benefit to open this area to mining. Also, tourists might now be able to use a road to go check it out. All these things are good, within reason.



              A downside is that some of these areas are excellent bighorn sheep habitat. With the way they are susceptible to disease, it could be very bad for them. Especially if sheep farmers allow their domestic sheep onto this property.


              You COULD always hunt it, and until Last year, there wasn't a possibility you couldn't, until obama added millions of acres to monuments using the antiquities act in a half dozen states. You say you could hunt them? Not unless the Feds approved it. It would be brought up every year, and with just one liberal judges pen, it would be shut down. PETA and HSUS already said they would petition courts every year, and THAT would shut it down. The very bighorn sheep you mentioned would have doomed it, because "human encroachment" is a valid reason to stop access.
              I don't listen to Fox News, so you can stow that insult. I listen to Safari club, and outfitters associations, and actually listen to people fighting efforts to stop hunting as well as watching PETA and HSUS. When they cheer a move by obama as a great day for shutting down hunting on millions of acres, I pay attention. This was one he did that was reversed. I hope all the rest are too.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by Lostacresranch View Post
                You COULD always hunt it, and until Last year, there wasn't a possibility you couldn't, until obama added millions of acres to monuments using the antiquities act in a half dozen states. You say you could hunt them? Not unless the Feds approved it. It would be brought up every year, and with just one liberal judges pen, it would be shut down. PETA and HSUS already said they would petition courts every year, and THAT would shut it down. The very bighorn sheep you mentioned would have doomed it, because "human encroachment" is a valid reason to stop access.
                I don't listen to Fox News, so you can stow that insult. I listen to Safari club, and outfitters associations, and actually listen to people fighting efforts to stop hunting as well as watching PETA and HSUS. When they cheer a move by obama as a great day for shutting down hunting on millions of acres, I pay attention. This was one he did that was reversed. I hope all the rest are too.
                Please see the BLM website. You can hunt monuments.

                https://www.blm.gov/visit/bears-ears-national-monument

                Also on Trumps list. Gold Butte. I wonder if I can hunt there?

                https://www.blm.gov/programs/nationa...ada/gold-butte

                Turns out yep, sure can. In fact, mule deer success rate was 42%.

                How about we look at Grand Staircase?

                https://www.blm.gov/programs/nationa...ional-monument

                Sure enough, you could still do all those things there. Last year Bighorn Sheep had almost a 92% success rate, and elk a 30% success rate. Nothing new was opened with this change, and nothing was shut down under Obama. Those area's all have units, and the success rate for those units is typically very good, with thousands of animals taken each year.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Terrible success rate on bighorns, must of been some no shows.

                  End of the day there is still a monument and what’s not is still public land.

                  Oh and even better it can be used for sensible and selective resource harvest.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by WItoTX View Post
                    Please see the BLM website. You can hunt monuments.







                    Also on Trumps list. Gold Butte. I wonder if I can hunt there?







                    Turns out yep, sure can. In fact, mule deer success rate was 42%.



                    How about we look at Grand Staircase?







                    Sure enough, you could still do all those things there. Last year Bighorn Sheep had almost a 92% success rate, and elk a 30% success rate. Nothing new was opened with this change, and nothing was shut down under Obama. Those area's all have units, and the success rate for those units is typically very good, with thousands of animals taken each year.


                    As I said, there was hunting in those areas BEFORE obama shut the added areas off from access LAST YEAR, before he left office. Seasons were set, and allowed in SOME areas, not all, and were subject to restrictions of the monument manager, and Washington office workers, not local biologists and wildlife agents that work the area. If you think that's a good idea, then we differ so much on that talking is useless. . You want to pick and choose? Go ahead. Ignore the millions in Alaska that was taken from access to hunting. Are you seriously claiming that shutting off access and roads to millions of acres helped hunting? If you can't get to it, you can't hunt it. Saying you can walk in is ridiculous when you are talking about areas of a hundred square miles. I'm sorry you can't see that.
                    This was a good move for hunters and hunting on public lands. It was praised by hunting advocate groups and state hunting officials as preserving hunting in Utah, and by example of what trump will do in the future, hunting on public lands in the US. If you want to believe the antihunting groups and continue to claim this was a bad thing, then support them in their efforts.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      I think Steven Rinella provides a good, independent-minded analogy here. The Fox News conservatives and the MSNBC liberals both pose threats that need to be addressed when it comes to the issue of wildlife habitat and hunting/fishing. As usual, political tribalism and confirmation bias is a primary culprit.

                      http://www.themeateater.com/2017/ste...nal-monuments/

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by flywise View Post


                        More than likely.this will open up 3 mil acres not close them
                        Today the feds/usfws do not open any of their lands for public access.

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