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Old 12-18-2018, 07:34 PM   #1
AntlerCollector
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Default Need advice on changing my lease to MLDP

I have a lease that I'm considering applying to make it part of the Managed Lands Deer Program. A quick look on the website shows two options.

1. Harvest Option (HO)
The Harvest Option is an automated, 'do-it-yourself' option for MLDP participation that provides landowners with a deer harvest recommendation, tag issuance, and general guidance about wildlife and wildlife habitat management. Participation in the Harvest Option does not require habitat management practices, deer population data, or the participant to receive technical assistance from a TPWD wildlife biologist.

2. Conservation Option (CO)
The Conservation Option offers program participants the opportunity to work with a TPWD biologist to receive customized, ranch-specific habitat and deer harvest recommendations and MLDP tag issuance for white-tailed deer and/or mule deer. This option does require the reporting of certain types of deer data as well as completion of specific habitat management practices each year in order to participate and remain in the program.

Can anyone who is enrolled in these programs, or knows about them, please educate me to the pros and cons of doing this?
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:36 PM   #2
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My lease is 4,000 acres in the Piney Woods of Hardin and Polk Counties.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:44 PM   #3
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I used to do lamps for the doe tags and we would get 8 doe tags for 563 acres. When they did away with lamps last year I tried for the harvest option and they were going to only issue 3 doe tags and 1 buck for 563 acres. That wasn't going to work for me so we didn't do it. I liked the lamps because we have alot of doe's and it allowed us to shoot them the whole general season. This is in San Augustine county.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:45 PM   #4
Mike Murphey
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Fyi. The landowner applies for the permit
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:48 PM   #5
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Fyi. The landowner applies for the permit
If he is the leaseholder and pays the paper company he can apply. I lease from campbell myself and have done it.
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:50 PM   #6
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If he is the leaseholder and pays the paper company he can apply. I lease from campbell myself and have done it.






I am the lease holder of the property
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:54 PM   #7
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1. There is a doe and a buck option in the harvest management selection. You get tags depending on the size of your property If you choose doe only, you only get MLD doe tags and you will use your standard license buck tags. The doe only option allows you to shoot does anytime, any method, Oct-Feb. Therefore you buck will abide all normal county rules. If you choose buck option you get MLD buck tags and same rules as doe tags above, longer season, more methods to hunt. Get online, use their online draw tool, it estimates the tags you will get does and bucks. Some may think they should get more buck tags and will simply use standard license tags for bucks and only do the MLD harvest option for doe.

2. Conservation, you have to have a few game management practices and submit those to TPWD, such as: hog harvests, food plots, land clearing, etc, only certain things are approved. You also have to do several deer counts via spotlight or the trail camera method. The tag allowance is determined by your biologist, which relies heavily on deer/acre and buck/doe numbers. You have to be in somewhat agreement with the biologist.

If you prefer to manage the herd yourself, such as overall deer quantity and buck/doe ratio on your place, stick with standard license or harvest option. If you want more help, go with 2. If you feel your place holds way more deer than surrounding areas, you may not be happy with option 1. Depending on the deer quantities in your area you may be better off just sticking with normal license tags with limitation of methods and dates per general county regs.

Standard buck/doe ratio goal is 1:1. Deer/acre is really dependent on average around your area.

From my experience, this is not legal advice, be sure to read all rules.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:13 PM   #8
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Typically lease holders are disappointed because they donít get enough tags for number of hunters on the property.


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Old 12-18-2018, 08:24 PM   #9
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When we were on LAMPS we would have 14 to 15 tags each year, about 1 per 100 acres. We then opted for the Harvest Option for does only and get 10 tags. Still better for our group due to the extended doe season. So far it has worked out well.

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Old 12-18-2018, 08:43 PM   #10
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With the State Fair coming to the thriving metropolis of Votaw, Texas every year, it's gonna be hard to manage that place with the bright lights of the big ferris wheel and the Zipper twinkling every night....
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:49 PM   #11
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Lol

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Old 12-18-2018, 08:54 PM   #12
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With the State Fair coming to the thriving metropolis of Votaw, Texas every year, it's gonna be hard to manage that place with the bright lights of the big ferris wheel and the Zipper twinkling every night....



You hush
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:57 PM   #13
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Great info Wits_End. Thanks.

Famousunknown, how many acres where you hunting when you received the 10 doe tags?

I didn't realize you have to pick either Buck or Doe on the harvest option.
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:58 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by hogslayer78 View Post
If he is the leaseholder and pays the paper company he can apply. I lease from campbell myself and have done it.
Why would he be paying the paper mill? Just curious
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:01 PM   #15
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Why would he be paying the paper mill? Just curious


I think he meant I pay the paper company for the lease rights to hunt the land.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:04 PM   #16
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We are in a coop and do the conservation side. I have 15 acres and get 2 doe tags. I usually donít shoot 2. I managed the neighbors 1500 acres for permits. Last year we got 12.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:06 PM   #17
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I think he meant I pay the paper company for the lease rights to hunt the land.
My point exactly, the paper mill doesnít own the land!

I ran a mld lease for 12 years but dropped it when they changed the system. Use their mapping feature to see how many tags you will get.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:07 PM   #18
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Great info Wits_End. Thanks.

Famousunknown, how many acres where you hunting when you received the 10 doe tags?

I didn't realize you have to pick either Buck or Doe on the harvest option.
I think its doe or doe/buck
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:25 PM   #19
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Under LAMPS we got 15-18 doe tags for our 1400 acres. Harvest option for does gives us 10 doe tags. Bucks under the harvest option would have only allowed us 4 buck tags, but would have created problems deciding which members got to shoot the bucks so we opted for doe tags only...bucks still under general season limits and AR restrictions.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:33 PM   #20
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Default Need advice on changing my lease to MLDP

I looked at the harvest option for our place and it was a joke-2 does. We had previously been level 1 mld and usually got 6 doe tags and recommendation of 1-2 mature bucks.

My understanding is the harvest option is based on county and not property specific. We are in Karnes which has a lot of open land but our 450 acres is all pretty thick.


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Old 12-19-2018, 01:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
I have a lease that I'm considering applying to make it part of the Managed Lands Deer Program. A quick look on the website shows two options.

1. Harvest Option (HO)
The Harvest Option is an automated, 'do-it-yourself' option for MLDP participation that provides landowners with a deer harvest recommendation, tag issuance, and general guidance about wildlife and wildlife habitat management. Participation in the Harvest Option does not require habitat management practices, deer population data, or the participant to receive technical assistance from a TPWD wildlife biologist.

2. Conservation Option (CO)
The Conservation Option offers program participants the opportunity to work with a TPWD biologist to receive customized, ranch-specific habitat and deer harvest recommendations and MLDP tag issuance for white-tailed deer and/or mule deer. This option does require the reporting of certain types of deer data as well as completion of specific habitat management practices each year in order to participate and remain in the program.

Can anyone who is enrolled in these programs, or knows about them, please educate me to the pros and cons of doing this?
We have 1500 acres in Newton County and use Option #2. The good? All of it! Biologist comes on your property, evaluates carrying capacity of the property, calculates the deer population, spot light surveys(3), fill out wildlife observation reports(ea member) for the season. Deer season is LOOONNNGGG, bag limit is expanded based up on the population of deer, not bound by the 13" rule, required to "improve" the habitat, and I could go on.
Our biologist would rather we bush hog rather than plant plots, we do both.
Extra tags for us was 11 does 6 bucks this year...I think.


The bad? If you don't fill all the MLDP tags you could be penalized by less tags the next season.

Hope this helps, if you would rather talk, pm me.

Last edited by lovemylegacy; 12-19-2018 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:08 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
We have 1500 acres in Newton County and use Option #2. The good? All of it! Biologist comes on your property, evaluates carrying capacity of the property, calculates the deer population, spot light surveys(3), fill out wildlife observation reports(ea member) for the season. Deer season is LOOONNNGGG, bag limit is expanded based up on the population of deer, not bound by the 13" rule, required to "improve" the habitat, and I could go on.
Our biologist would rather we bush hog rather than plant plots, we do both.
Extra tags for us was 11 does 6 bucks this year...I think.


The bad? If you don't fill all the MLDP tags you could be penalized by less tags the next season.

Hope this helps, if you would rather talk, pm me.


I do like the sound of this!

Honesty I was hoping the Harvest Option would have been the way to go. It sounds like they really limit how many tags you get since there isn't a biologist physically coming out there. Would I be able to start either one of the programs this coming season? I won't have a seasons worth of deer surveys by then.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:00 AM   #23
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Go both routes to compare them before making a final decision. I believe you have until early summer to decide.

Our experience was the opposite. We have been on MLD3 for years and based on the online mapping tool we would receive double the doe tags going with Harvest. After initial setup of MLD3 years ago we never saw the biologist and they were not the most responsive. This is our experience. Start some email traffic with them, get some rough estimates of deer numbers and see what they say. You can get a good rough estimate of numbers by performing one spotlight count, enough to get a conversation started.

With conservation, you get a set number of doe and buck tags. Doe tags based on quantity of deer and buck/doe ratio, and I believe doe weights. Buck tags based on quantity of counted mature bucks. If you have 12 hunters and get 8 tags you have to figure out how to distribute them. You may have a place where not all 12 hunters will shoot a buck in a normal year, but go tell 4 of them at the beginning of the season that they don't have a buck tag or tell the group first come first serve, it changes things.
Conservation is quite a bit more work as far as counts, documentation, getting members to do more at specific times, with most of it happening throughout the hot summer months when members are generally not around as often.

The long seasons are awesome! Members that do not bowhunt love the rifles in October. If you get an abundance of tags, some members can leave with more deer than normal. The work involved gives great data showing the deer numbers, age classes, weights, and the trends over time (you can do this just the same outside the program, but the requirement makes you more diligent)


What do you want out of either of the programs?
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:22 AM   #24
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Didnt think there were enough deer in east Texas to justify a program like that.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:29 AM   #25
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Get with the biologist in your area. For new properties wanting to do option 2, i believe you will have to have 3 years prior harvest data and an approved game management plan.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:46 AM   #26
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What do you want out of either of the programs?


Well I would like to have a longer doe season. Ours currently is over the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I would personally like to pass on does while the bucks are chasing them in late October and early November. Can't really let them walk now or the doe season will pass by. I also like that I don't have to use a tag off my license, (that's my understanding anyway.). You use the allotted permits instead correct? So the MLD plans allow rifles during October? I'm not a fan of that at all. How much longer are the seasons?
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:58 AM   #27
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In either option, you use MLD tags, not your license tags.
Rifle is allowed October through February for the deer option you choose. If you don't choose bucks, you follow county regs.

If you choose Harvest-Doe, you get allotted tags and longer season. See if they will give you enough doe tags and make the decision off that. See if they will give you as many as you normally shoot with short season.
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:02 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
What do you want out of either of the programs?


Well I would like to have a longer doe season. Ours currently is over the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I would personally like to pass on does while the bucks are chasing them in late October and early November. Can't really let them walk now or the doe season will pass by. I also like that I don't have to use a tag off my license, (that's my understanding anyway.). You use the allotted permits instead correct? So the MLD plans allow rifles during October? I'm not a fan of that at all. How much longer are the seasons?
Typically 2/15. PM Top of Texas Iím sure he would give you all of the specifics.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:06 AM   #29
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We have operated 3 properties under MLD over the last 20yrs. IMO the conservation option is the way to even though it does require a little work on your part. The problem that you occasionally run into in East Texas is the number of tags you receive often limit the number of deer per hunter to less than the county regs.

I can attest that we went from being suprised to see a deer to being suprised when we did not see a deer anytime we were on the property. With the amount of acreage you are talking about a management program should be extremely effective.

The season runs from the day bow season opens until the end of Feb. That being said it has always been our practice not to take does/anterless after the second weekend in January to avoid the possibility of taking a buck that dropped horns early.

Every year after about the 2nd yr on the program we had multiple mature 130"+ deer on camera. When we lost the lease last year (individual purchased from timber company and did not want to lease it out) We had 7 bucks over 130" two of which broke 150".

All in all, I think its well worth it as long as the lease members are willing to follow the guidelines and only harvest mature deer.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:08 AM   #30
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What county is the property in?
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:38 AM   #31
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Famousunknown, how many acres where you hunting when you received the 10 doe tags?

We have +/-1400. You can go to the management section on the TPWD website and map out your boundaries and they will give you an estimate of how many tags you will get. The number we ended up with was the same as what was estimated.

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Old 12-19-2018, 11:37 AM   #32
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Typically 2/15. PM Top of Texas Iím sure he would give you all of the specifics.
Sorry looked at my paper work and it is 2/28. I would still PM Top of Texas.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:52 AM   #33
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What county is the property in?
Hardin and Polk. 4,000 acres
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:54 PM   #34
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What do you want out of either of the programs?


Well I would like to have a longer doe season. Ours currently is over the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I would personally like to pass on does while the bucks are chasing them in late October and early November. Can't really let them walk now or the doe season will pass by. I also like that I don't have to use a tag off my license, (that's my understanding anyway.). You use the allotted permits instead correct? So the MLD plans allow rifles during October? I'm not a fan of that at all. How much longer are the seasons?
Season starts in Oct-Feb28th. MLD tags must be used first. Any legal weapon can be used.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:57 PM   #35
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I do like the sound of this!

Honesty I was hoping the Harvest Option would have been the way to go. It sounds like they really limit how many tags you get since there isn't a biologist physically coming out there. Would I be able to start either one of the programs this coming season? I won't have a seasons worth of deer surveys by then.
Its better to go with the biologist, you will get more tags, Im thinking the Harvest program is a doe only program and I think you would still be bound by the 13" rule, check me on that. You can apply for either program.

Even if you have to start from MLD1, it is worth it. If you have lease members that will put in the work required, improvements should be out of the roof for a lease of that size.

We are archery only lease so its a little more difficult to reach the quota, but we get really close most years.

Last edited by lovemylegacy; 12-19-2018 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 03:14 PM   #36
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so lets say your in a one buck county does that change anything ?
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Old 12-19-2018, 03:39 PM   #37
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What do you want out of either of the programs?


Well I would like to have a longer doe season. Ours currently is over the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I would personally like to pass on does while the bucks are chasing them in late October and early November. Can't really let them walk now or the doe season will pass by. I also like that I don't have to use a tag off my license, (that's my understanding anyway.). You use the allotted permits instead correct? So the MLD plans allow rifles during October? I'm not a fan of that at all. How much longer are the seasons?
Why would you pass on does but wanting more permits for them?
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:36 PM   #38
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Why would you pass on does but wanting more permits for them?


Iím sure he thinks the more doe he has on the property the more bucks may show up.


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Old 12-19-2018, 06:04 PM   #39
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Why would you pass on does but wanting more permits for them?


I don't want to shoot my does when the bucks are seeking them out. I'd rather them be decoys. Right now the season ends the Sunday after Thanksgiving. With MLD I can shoot them until the end of February.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:02 PM   #40
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so lets say your in a one buck county does that change anything ?
As in what? You kill as many bucks as tags are allowed. It depends on how the lease manager divides up the tags. We have a first come first serve policy, that keeps someone from hoarding a tag.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:14 PM   #41
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It is a great plan as long as everyone is aware that there is a 100% chance that not alll members will receive a buck tag on a typical east Texas lease. Not everyone can stomach having $2500+ and time wrapped up in something without a buck tag
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:33 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by jaspermac View Post
It is a great plan as long as everyone is aware that there is a 100% chance that not alll members will receive a buck tag on a typical east Texas lease. Not everyone can stomach having $2500+ and time wrapped up in something without a buck tag


Itís for managing deer. If they canít stomach it then this type of lease/program is not for them.


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Old 12-19-2018, 08:13 PM   #43
AntlerCollector
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So do hunters shoot the deer and then come to camp or a designated location where the permits are kept? Do you pass out some to hunters to use? How does it literally work as far as a hunter shooting the deer and me needing to give him the permit? I assume a hunter can't bring the deer to camp without the permit on it. Same as a regular tag right?
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:18 PM   #44
Wits_End
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You bring the deer to camp, you tag it at camp. Tag is signed by hunter and landowner/manager. Dont have to tag in field. Record required information in record book, go on down the road.
Weight, lactation, age, antler size, etc
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:20 PM   #45
ethic1
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All our tags are in the shack and easily available as well as the documentation. Bucks go in the deep freezer till scored.


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Old 12-19-2018, 08:23 PM   #46
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Ok. I was afraid one of my hunters would get in trouble if the GW stopped them before they got to camp with an untagged deer.



Found where they cover it:


All deer harvested under the authority of MLDP must be immediately tagged with a MLDP tag by the person who killed the deer, unless the person who killed the deer immediately takes the carcass by the most direct route to a tagging station (location where tags are maintained on the enrolled property) where an appropriate MLDP tag shall be attached immediately.

Last edited by AntlerCollector; 12-19-2018 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:24 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbbriggs05 View Post
We have operated 3 properties under MLD over the last 20yrs. IMO the conservation option is the way to even though it does require a little work on your part. The problem that you occasionally run into in East Texas is the number of tags you receive often limit the number of deer per hunter to less than the county regs.

I can attest that we went from being suprised to see a deer to being suprised when we did not see a deer anytime we were on the property. With the amount of acreage you are talking about a management program should be extremely effective.

The season runs from the day bow season opens until the end of Feb. That being said it has always been our practice not to take does/anterless after the second weekend in January to avoid the possibility of taking a buck that dropped horns early.

Every year after about the 2nd yr on the program we had multiple mature 130"+ deer on camera. When we lost the lease last year (individual purchased from timber company and did not want to lease it out) We had 7 bucks over 130" two of which broke 150".

All in all, I think its well worth it as long as the lease members are willing to follow the guidelines and only harvest mature deer.
Why could you not have achieved the same results on your own without going MLD3 and adding more work? Only harvest mature bucks and your buck numbers go up and size increases. Limit quantity of does shot and your population will increase.

If your heart desires, perform a few night counts every year and keep track how quantity changes.
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
Ok. I was afraid one of my hunters would get in trouble if the GW stopped them before they got to camp with an untagged deer.



Found where they cover it:


All deer harvested under the authority of MLDP must be immediately tagged with a MLDP tag by the person who killed the deer, unless the person who killed the deer immediately takes the carcass by the most direct route to a tagging station (location where tags are maintained on the enrolled property) where an appropriate MLDP tag shall be attached immediately.
I believe you can pre sign them and hand out.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:29 PM   #49
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Say you fill all 10 of the mld issued doe tags. Can you still use your personal tags to take a doe? Or are your strictly limited to only taking deer off the property equal to the number of issues mld tags?
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:35 PM   #50
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“Once MLDP tags have been issued for a property, all deer harvested on the property must be tagged with the appropriate MLDP tag. Hunting license tags may not be used for deer harvested under the authority of a MLDP tag and may not be substituted in lieu of a MLDP tag”
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