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Old 08-18-2018, 12:34 PM   #1
pilar
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Angry Outfitter will not return our deposit on a hunt

Well in February we sent in $3000 to a outfitter for some pronghorn permits
I did this to secure the hunts , for a October trophy rifle hunt
In the meantime a federal court case I must testify in has been postponed two times, with trial set for the New Mexico pronghorn season, I contacted the outfitter 4 months in advance and he hasnít been cooperating with return of the deposit, coming up with many new and different issues about the return
I even had the court clerk send him the docket schedule ď he states not his problem ď any advice on dealing with or compelling him to return the money?
Thanks
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:53 PM   #2
Traildust
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Postpone that federal court case.....only way I'm missing out on a hunt and my deposit is if I'm putting Hillary Clinton in jail......
then I'm setting up a go fund me to recoup my loses.
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:55 PM   #3
MacDaddy67
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Originally Posted by Traildust View Post
Postpone that federal court case.....only way I'm missing out on a hunt and my deposit is if I'm putting Hillary Clinton in jail......
then I'm setting up a go fund me to recoup my loses.
LOL...

I would donate to that fund
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:57 PM   #4
Kingfisher789
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Can’t you sell the permits?
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:05 PM   #5
pilar
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Originally Posted by Traildust View Post
Postpone that federal court case.....only way I'm missing out on a hunt and my deposit is if I'm putting Hillary Clinton in jail......
then I'm setting up a go fund me to recoup my loses.
I wish it were that easy but the trial date is now set in stone , and the judge is not sim pathetic about hunting dates vs trial date
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:09 PM   #6
pilar
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Canít you sell the permits?
I canít but the outfitter has that option, he is just not very motivated
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:09 PM   #7
RealTreeHunter
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What does the outfitter's policy regarding cancellations say?
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:12 PM   #8
pilar
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What does the outfitter's policy regarding cancellations say?
60 day notice, we gave him 4 months
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:12 PM   #9
Traildust
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I wish it were that easy but the trial date is now set in stone , and the judge is not sim pathetic about hunting dates vs trial date
Do you have a lawyer? How is the court making you show up? If it's been postponed twice.....it ain't set in stone, especially if I'm losing $3K
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #10
HDWRENCH
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as a business owner I can see both sides , one would think he can fill the slots even if he has to offer a discount , and you pay that amount of offset .

Has to be more to this just he said no .. that seems very odd with 4 months notice ?



sue for 3 G ?? WOW this is not the first time I have read this type of comment on here .

Any one every really have to use a lawyer to get money . First off its going to be 1500-2000 upfront to retain the guy , and if is a out of state deal gets a bit tougher . then you have his fees and filling etc . 3G will be gone in a blink of an eye.

that is a last effort if you ask my opinion .

SO no money back at all nothing 100% out of luck ?

Last edited by HDWRENCH; 08-18-2018 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:15 PM   #11
pilar
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Originally Posted by Traildust View Post
Do you have a lawyer? How is the court making you show up? If it's been postponed twice.....it ain't set in stone, especially if I'm losing $3K
The defense has exhausted their appeal for continuance
My witness summons is compelled by law

Last edited by pilar; 08-18-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:20 PM   #12
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I’d imagine a letter from lawyer would make quick work on this. 60 day notice, your owed the deposit back. Only thing I can think of it’s in the fine print deposit is non refundable?
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:21 PM   #13
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SICK--They have alternate jurors.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:43 PM   #14
Muygrande
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Federal District Court judges are not going to move a trial date because of a hunt/vacation and trust me you do not want to ignore a federal subpoena. Did you have any type of written agreement with the outfitter?
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:48 PM   #15
pilar
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SICK--They have alternate jurors.
I am a witness against one civilian and a US Air Force E7 ( already in military custody) facing very lengthy federal sentencing and the officers of the court
Will not release any witness even for a great opportunity to hunt a world class pronghorn

No he never sent a written contracts only emailed confirmation

Last edited by pilar; 08-18-2018 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:49 PM   #16
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SICK--They have alternate jurors.
I'm not sure you understand how the court system works. Jurors don't testify.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:49 PM   #17
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Easiest way is to rebook the hunt for next year. Tell him the deposit will be applied for next year. He can re sell this years tags. I been down this road, more than likely he done spent your deposit and ain’t got none to give back. It’s a sad situation, a lawyer will cost you as much as the deposit. And your wasting your time chasing bad money.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:52 PM   #18
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I'd start blasting the outfitter on social media. Either the pressure gets him to send your money back, or most likely the money is spent and you aren't getting it back anyway.
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:57 PM   #19
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you can probably find a lawyer that will send a letter of pending law suit if the funds are not returned,,,, most of the time that is sufficient it is worth the
50-100$ many of them charge......

but $3000 is above most small court claims and as already stated the fees and time for an actual suit would be well over that amount,,, unless you find a lawyer who will wait for the money and recover his fees from the so called outfitter.... read all the fine print you can find concerning him and his business before hand
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Old 08-18-2018, 01:59 PM   #20
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SICK--They have alternate jurors.
He is not a juror. He is a witness.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:04 PM   #21
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you can probably find a lawyer that will send a letter of pending law suit if the funds are not returned,,,, most of the time that is sufficient it is worth the
50-100$ many of them charge......

but $3000 is above most small court claims and as already stated the fees and time for an actual suit would be well over that amount,,, unless you find a lawyer who will wait for the money and recover his fees from the so-called outfitter.... read all the fine print you can find concerning him and his business before hand
Small claims court limit is $10,000. I would, for sure, pursue a claim in JP court. You should have no problem getting a JP to rule in your favor. Then you file the judgment in his county clerk's office. If you can determine where his bank account is (did he deposit a check or PayPal?), then you can attach the bank account. If he owns real estate in the county and eventually sell it, you will get paid if the judgment is still active. You must refile it every 10 years.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:06 PM   #22
jerp
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More than likely he spent your deposit and doesn’t have it to give back

That is my guess - some of those guys live close to the edge, financially. He may live off of deposits in the off season and just hopes nobody cancels.
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:15 PM   #23
pilar
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Originally Posted by Burnadell View Post
Small claims court limit is $10,000. I would, for sure, pursue a claim in JP court. You should have no problem getting a JP to rule in your favor. Then you file the judgment in his county clerk's office. If you can determine where his bank account is (did he deposit a check or PayPal?), then you can attach the bank account. If he owns real estate in the county and eventually sell it, you will get paid if the judgment is still active. You must refile it every 10 years.
Luckily the guy lives in pecos county/ irran! But the hunt is on his family ranch in New Mexico so court district is questionable
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Old 08-18-2018, 02:30 PM   #24
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Luckily the guy lives in pecos county/ irran! But the hunt is on his family ranch in New Mexico so court district is questionable


Iraan isnít very big, go find that dude.


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Old 08-18-2018, 03:05 PM   #25
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Depends on what was agreed upon. Deposits are usually not refundable no matter how far out you cancel. My guess without looking at any actual contract is that the 60 day cancellation policy is for the remainder of the payment, not the deposit.

I’d say ask if he’ll raincheck you for next year. If he aint playing ball you may be out of luck.

My wife and I booked a hiking trip once and put down the deposit. Wife got pregnant so we contacted them. They gave us one year for a raincheck. Next year my wife was pregnant so we forfeited the deposit.

Last edited by MetalMan2004; 08-18-2018 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:08 PM   #26
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Can you find a hunter to replace yourself and get him connected with the guide? New hunter pays you the 3k deposit (as long as the guide is ok with this)? He should be, he’s not losing out on anything.....
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:08 PM   #27
Burnadell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilar View Post
Luckily the guy lives in pecos county/ irran! But the hunt is on his family ranch in New Mexico so court district is questionable
I’m no bottom feeding, egg sucking lawyer , but I believe the jurisdiction would be in the county that the transaction took place...where you sent the money and where he deposited it and lives.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:11 PM   #28
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...but it all depends on what the agreement/contract says.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:12 PM   #29
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I get where you’re coming from but if you knew this could’ve happened why did you book. He’s holding off his end of the deal. A deposit usually is forfeited if you can’t go. Best route is to tell him let you hunt next year.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:26 PM   #30
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The defendant has more rights, lol. Justice system
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:26 PM   #31
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The outfitter needs a visit from your friends "Vinny" and "Tony", I'd bet he'll come around to your way of thinking.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:32 PM   #32
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I know some folks in Iraan I can make some calls! Lol
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:38 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by tex4k View Post
The outfitter needs a visit from your friends "Vinny" and "Tony", I'd bet he'll come around to your way of thinking.
Or that guy "Bernie... A Dell" that is

OP it sounds like the cheapest way to go about it would be try to apply the deposit for next year or ask him for the option to sell the hunt for him since you say he's not motivated. Last resort will be small claims court as you know and not always a guarantee you'll be immediately paid.
Good luck which ever path you take.
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Old 08-18-2018, 03:48 PM   #34
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You lost me at outfitter, they're always good till they're not.....
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:08 PM   #35
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Wife got pregnant so we contacted them. They gave us one year for a raincheck. Next year my wife was pregnant so we forfeited the deposit.


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Old 08-18-2018, 04:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by MetalMan2004 View Post
Depends on what was agreed upon. Deposits are usually not refundable no matter how far out you cancel. My guess without looking at any actual contract is that the 60 day cancellation policy is for the remainder of the payment, not the deposit.

Iíd say ask if heíll raincheck you for next year. If he aint playing ball you may be out of luck.

My wife and I booked a hiking trip once and put down the deposit. Wife got pregnant so we contacted them. They gave us one year for a raincheck. Next year my wife was pregnant so we forfeited the deposit.
Dang boy.
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:24 PM   #37
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can the hunt be rescheduled?
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Old 08-18-2018, 04:40 PM   #38
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Who's the outfitter? I want to look up his website.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Iím no bottom feeding, egg sucking lawyer , but I believe the jurisdiction would be in the county that the transaction took place...where you sent the money and where he deposited it and lives.
I sued a taxidermist one time and the JP here heard the case as we were setting up the transaction through e-mails.
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:41 PM   #40
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Pilar- I have been told many courts over the years that I would not be there to testify and was unavailable. I have done it several times with the victim without a heartbeat anymore. The court always found a way to reschedule when I would be available. Why not just contact the prosecutor and tell them you are unavailable
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:30 PM   #41
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How much is the total price of the hunt. Try and sell it get your money back or at least part of it.
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:38 PM   #42
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Dang boy.
I had one trip to the man doctor and a weekend on the couch and now weíll be able to take that trip in about 15 years
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:39 PM   #43
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Man that suxs, hope something is able to be worked out for ya.
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:46 PM   #44
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If you can’t reschedule the court hearing or the hunt, to me the only option is to try to sell. Going to court over 3k seems like it would be a diminished return.
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:00 PM   #45
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Not a lawyer...didnt stay in a holiday express, ...and really wasnt payin much attention when matlock was on the air...
I wasnt aware a witness...could be forced to testify...especially if that witness has a conflict in his schedule... i would think the prosecutor would do everything in his power to work with someone that is beneficial to him winning his case...
seems forcing someone that could just as easily say..i dont remember...wouldnt be in his case's best interest... not that you would do that... just sayin..
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:24 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMan2004 View Post
Depends on what was agreed upon. Deposits are usually not refundable no matter how far out you cancel. My guess without looking at any actual contract is that the 60 day cancellation policy is for the remainder of the payment, not the deposit.

Iíd say ask if heíll raincheck you for next year. If he aint playing ball you may be out of luck.

My wife and I booked a hiking trip once and put down the deposit. Wife got pregnant so we contacted them. They gave us one year for a raincheck. Next year my wife was pregnant so we forfeited the deposit.
Y'all need to get out of the house more. Pick up a hobby like hiking.
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:38 PM   #47
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Not a lawyer...didnt stay in a holiday express, ...and really wasnt payin much attention when matlock was on the air...
I wasnt aware a witness...could be forced to testify...especially if that witness has a conflict in his schedule... i would think the prosecutor would do everything in his power to work with someone that is beneficial to him winning his case...
seems forcing someone that could just as easily say..i dont remember...wouldnt be in his case's best interest... not that you would do that... just sayin..
sure he can refuse to testify,,, might be held in contempt of court too,, and locked up until he decides he will,,,, no bail on contempt charge!
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
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I sued a taxidermist one time and the JP here heard the case as we were setting up the transaction through e-mails.
That's even better if he can be sued in the county the plaintiff lives.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:28 PM   #49
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Whether you fight it or accept it you will have to eat it!
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:34 AM   #50
Radar
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I had one trip to the man doctor and a weekend on the couch and now weíll be able to take that trip in about 15 years
Lol
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