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Old 11-26-2018, 09:17 PM   #1
mesquitecountry
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Default Understanding MRAD and MOA turret changes-Help needed

Okay; so I will tell you Iím not a super long range target shooter. Iíve hunted animals, and killed out to 700 yards, lots in the 500ís and some in the 600ís, but Iíve always been a Kentucky windage guy. Iím trying to change that. Iíve read just about everything I can, and my brain hurts. I know how to range with my scopes whether it be vortex, nightforce, leupold, trijicon (both 1/4 moa and mrad 1/10).

My biggest question which hardly no one addresses. How the heck do I take a drop and spin the turrets????

Example. I have ranged a target to 500 yards, and letís say that bullet drop is 44Ē. How many clicks up would I have to move my turrets in moa or mrad? I know that mrad is 3.6 inches per mrad. So do I simply divide 44 by 3.6? What about MoA.

Please help! Keep this simple please!


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Old 11-26-2018, 09:21 PM   #2
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Change your thought process from inches of drop to the angular measurement. In other words, at 500 yards, I come up 2.0mil. However many inches that is is irrelevant as long as my 2.0mil hold is good. MIL over MOA any day as it is simple decimals
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:22 PM   #3
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https://www.amazon.com/Long-Range-Sh...oters+handbook

I'm not all that great at explaining it. And there are others here with tons more knowledge than myself. But this book is well worth the purchase.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:24 PM   #4
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Change your thought process from inches of drop to the angular measurement. In other words, at 500 yards, I come up 2.0mil. However many inches that is is irrelevant as long as my 2.0mil hold is good. MIL over MOA any day as it is simple decimals


Okay I will gladly think this way if you can tell me how to get to that math thatís quick.


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Old 11-26-2018, 09:25 PM   #5
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What are you using to tell you 44” drop at 500 yards? Most ballistic apps will crunch out a pretty accurate dope when fed correct parameters. You may just be concentrating on the inches of drop instead of more valuable information.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mesquitecountry View Post
Okay; so I will tell you Iím not a super long range target shooter. Iíve hunted animals, and killed out to 700 yards, lots in the 500ís and some in the 600ís, but Iíve always been a Kentucky windage guy. Iím trying to change that. Iíve read just about everything I can, and my brain hurts. I know how to range with my scopes whether it be vortex, nightforce, leupold, trijicon (both 1/4 moa and mrad 1/10).

My biggest question which hardly no one addresses. How the heck do I take a drop and spin the turrets????

Example. I have ranged a target to 500 yards, and letís say that bullet drop is 44Ē. How many clicks up would I have to move my turrets in moa or mrad? I know that mrad is 3.6 inches per mrad. So do I simply divide 44 by 3.6? What about MoA.

Please help! Keep this simple please!


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LOL!! Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I understand it once I'm reading it, but I don't do it enough to retain it and by golly I got to learn it all over again every time.

It's really not a difficult "equation" and its very easy to overthink. The key is studying it and retaining it. I'd tell ya what I know, but I'd have to go back and learn it again first!
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:29 PM   #7
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I shoot my 6.5saum enough to know 300 is 0.8, 400 is 1.4, and 500 is 2.0 here in Texas. Past 500 or if I have time, I use applied ballistics app. I also have the G7 rangefinder that gives me a dial to call on the screen but I rely on applied ballistics mostly
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:29 PM   #8
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What are you using to tell you 44Ē drop at 500 yards? Most ballistic apps will crunch out a pretty accurate dope when fed correct parameters. You may just be concentrating on the inches of drop instead of more valuable information.

I have a couple different ballistics calculators, Iím simply looking at a faster non computer aided means.


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Old 11-26-2018, 09:32 PM   #9
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I shoot my 6.5saum enough to know 300 is 0.8, 400 is 1.4, and 500 is 2.0 here in Texas. Past 500 or if I have time, I use applied ballistics app. I also have the G7 rangefinder that gives me a dial to call on the screen but I rely on applied ballistics mostly


I shoot the 26 nosler which is close to your 6.5. 3150 speed, 143 eld-x bullets canít recall the bc off hand, 200 yard zero


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Old 11-26-2018, 09:36 PM   #10
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I have a couple different ballistics calculators, Iím simply looking at a faster non computer aided means.


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If my memory serves me correct, 44" at 500 yard would be around 9 MOA. You know this because 5" at 500 yards is 1 MOA so 10 MOA would get you 50" of elevation change at 500 yards.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:40 PM   #11
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I shoot the 26 nosler which is close to your 6.5. 3150 speed, 143 eld-x bullets canít recall the bc off hand, 200 yard zero


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For speed, I would confirm dialed holds at 50 yard increments and tape dope card on your stock. Mean temperature of 70 degrees and elevation where you mostly hunt and all of your other parameters into solver.

Calculations are not as fast as ballistic solvers nowadays but with all due respect, your old way isnít fast or effective as youíre here asking for clarifications

Iíd be happy to plug everything into Applied Ballistics and make you a pdf dope card. PM me your info and email if you want.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:47 PM   #12
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This tells me you need to go shoot your gun at 50 yard increments confirm and right down your dope for each and then tape a range card to your stock. Only fast way to know based on your range finder what you need to hold unless you have them memorized.

But honestly it is about changing your perception and then just practicing. You get to the point where you don't even use inches any more every thing will be in MOA at least in my case when calling hits or making adjustments. Instead of thinking I need to give it 44" you start automatically thinking I need to hold 8 moa instead

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Old 11-26-2018, 09:54 PM   #13
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Oh also has a general rule when dealing with MOA at least to get your drop in inches you just need to know that at 100 yards 1 moa is 1" at 200 2" at 300 3" etc. This rule works all the way out to hunting ranges just fine. So at 500 yards 5 inches is one MOA. So to get 45 inches to moa at 500 you just divide by 5 so you get 9 moa. Another way to think of it is to get moa at whatever distance divide your range by 100. That is your inches per moa at that yardage.

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Old 11-26-2018, 09:58 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by JakeGraves View Post
For speed, I would confirm dialed holds at 50 yard increments and tape dope card on your stock. Mean temperature of 70 degrees and elevation where you mostly hunt and all of your other parameters into solver.



Calculations are not as fast as ballistic solvers nowadays but with all due respect, your old way isnít fast or effective as youíre here asking for clarifications



Iíd be happy to plug everything into Applied Ballistics and make you a pdf dope card. PM me your info and email if you want.


Okay, so take a look at this for me. 4.1mrad for 4Ē of drop, and only 16.4 mrad for 29Ē of drop? This doesnít look right.


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Old 11-26-2018, 10:03 PM   #15
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Okay, so take a look at this for me. 4.1mrad for 4Ē of drop, and only 16.4 mrad for 29Ē of drop? This doesnít look right.


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That looks right you have to remember that each measurement scales up the further out you go so it takes less clicks or adjustments to make more movement. So one moa at 1000 is moving your bullet 10" but at 100 it is only moving it an inch. So same goes for mrad 1 mil at 100 is only 3.6" but at 1000 it is 36" of movement. Or whatever the commy measuring system is in inches.

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Old 11-27-2018, 06:03 AM   #16
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Maybe change thought from bullet drop to distance.
Change range finder from standard to metric and you’re good to go.
There are several extrapolation charts available.
Curious why you choose to use bullet drop as the standard?
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by mesquitecountry View Post
Okay I will gladly think this way if you can tell me how to get to that math that’s quick.
As a ex-Canuck the tendancy to use 1000s, just seems natural (meter/kilometers), but I hope this helps some...


instead of doing (44/3.6)/5"hundred") = 2.4 milliradians
NOTE: 2 division operations



The ease of use comes from using metric (or at least just 1 unit of measure). milli just means 1/1000, which is the base for metric.

44" = 1.11 m
500yd = 457 m

You should be doing 1.11 / 457 = 0.0024 radians or 2.4 milliradians
NOTE: 1 division operation (and a decimal shift of 1000 which you also do in moa when you ignore the 100s of yards and shift by 100)



Also if you just want to do yards.... you can still apply the 1/1000 rule if you work in yards only.

44" = 1.22 yds
500 yds

You can do 1.22 / 500 = 2.4 miliradians


Clear as mud?

Last edited by howabouttheiris; 11-27-2018 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:52 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by westtexducks View Post
That looks right you have to remember that each measurement scales up the further out you go so it takes less clicks or adjustments to make more movement. So one moa at 1000 is moving your bullet 10" but at 100 it is only moving it an inch. So same goes for mrad 1 mil at 100 is only 3.6" but at 1000 it is 36" of movement. Or whatever the commy measuring system is in inches.

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Your drop charts in .1mrad makes it confusing. Can you change to while mrad? Should read 2.1, 4.4, 6.7 instead of 16.44, etc. I also like to use 100 yd zero so my values are skewed from yours.
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Old 11-27-2018, 06:55 AM   #19
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Example. I have ranged a target to 500 yards, and let’s say that bullet drop is 44”. How many clicks up would I have to move my turrets in moa or mrad? I know that mrad is 3.6 inches per mrad.
Using your "3.6 method"...
44"/5 = 8.8 moa at 1/4moa clicks = 35 clicks up
mrad 44"/3.6/5 = 2.4 mrad at .1 mrad clicks = 24 clicks up

Quote:
So do I simply divide 44 by 3.6?
No, You missed the 500yd part.



The easy math is something like...

minute 1 inch at 100 yards
radian 1 meter at 1000 meters

Last edited by howabouttheiris; 11-27-2018 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 11-27-2018, 07:59 AM   #20
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It looks like the "Drop (.1mrad)" is actually the number of clicks on the scope. I did some quick adjustments in strelok and was able to get pretty close to his numbers. So at 500 yards it is actually 1.6 mils. In order to get the actual mil value, you would shift the decimal over 1 spot. The mil chart would look something like this (rounded numbers)...

300- .4 mil
400- 1 mil
500- 1.6 mil
600- 2.4 mil
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:01 AM   #21
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What calculator is that chart from? There may be something in the settings that needs to be adjusted.
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:15 AM   #22
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two words: dope chart
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:46 AM   #23
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Oh also has a general rule when dealing with MOA at least to get your drop in inches you just need to know that at 100 yards 1 moa is 1" at 200 2" at 300 3" etc. This rule works all the way out to hunting ranges just fine. So at 500 yards 5 inches is one MOA. So to get 45 inches to moa at 500 you just divide by 5 so you get 9 moa. Another way to think of it is to get moa at whatever distance divide your range by 100. That is your inches per moa at that yardage.

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This is the best way I have explained MOA to people and they pick it up pretty fast. The best way though by far is to take your gun and ammo to the range starting at 100 and work it out to your comfortable distance and record your DOPE. The factory ammo charts are great and a good starting point but are always a little off in my experience. So many factors that could be different. barrel length/twist, elevation, temperature, humidity.. I find MOA easier to understand but that's just how I learned early on.
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:48 AM   #24
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It looks like the "Drop (.1mrad)" is actually the number of clicks on the scope. I did some quick adjustments in strelok and was able to get pretty close to his numbers. So at 500 yards it is actually 1.6 mils. In order to get the actual mil value, you would shift the decimal over 1 spot. The mil chart would look something like this (rounded numbers)...

300- .4 mil
400- 1 mil
500- 1.6 mil
600- 2.4 mil


I was using the ballistics Ae app. I canít remember where I was told about the app, but I was told it was top notch, I have doubts about the click values. I also have iSnipe but it only shows values in MOA. Which doesnít help. What calculator should I be using? I know how to spin the knobs, I have a rangefinder, and I know my bullet data (I use copper creek custom for my ammunition and have them chrono it), I just need to have confidence in the data, and the chart I posted doesnít feel right to me. Shooting wise, I am confident on game out to 650, with plenty of practice out to 500, beyond that I run out of patience and time most often then not to shoot that much.

What ballistics calculator should I be using?


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Old 11-27-2018, 09:34 AM   #25
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Well G1 in my LR experience will not always be correct.

So before worrying about What it is you need to verify what it really is does that make sense ?/ Start with the chart . Then start backing up and make corrections as you go. Now you have a real dope chart . For that day any ways HA HA .

Most of us that shoot LR have a kestrel tucked away . As the LR shots are going to vastly impacted by environmental conditions on that given shot .

So this is the reason to check your shots at longer range . The BC FPS is all a starting point in some respect . Sure it " should" be this but its not always what you think . Hence back to checking that set up.

Which app well any one that works . Some apps will allow you to choose your reticle which can be great . I use hold over once I know most of the info .

So you have your rig ready for 800 OK but now your dealing with a 925 shot and its on the move . Do you have time to play the game of running the turret?/ some times yes some times no bench stuff sure but in the field that may not be an option . So Hold over can work very well if you have the wind you have more info and know that you are up and to the left X amount this is hunting not shooting groups.

Accuracy is needed but we have some room to work with

Untitled by GMR Performance, on Flickr


Untitled by GMR Performance, on Flickr
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:35 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mesquitecountry View Post
What ballistics calculator should I be using?
The one taped to your stock that was developed with and for your rifle, ammunition, and conditions combination.

Calculator-wise it is all straightforward math for the yardages you are talking about. BulletDrop is simple and works fine.
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:43 AM   #27
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I was using the ballistics Ae app. I canít remember where I was told about the app, but I was told it was top notch, I have doubts about the click values. I also have iSnipe but it only shows values in MOA. Which doesnít help. What calculator should I be using? I know how to spin the knobs, I have a rangefinder, and I know my bullet data (I use copper creek custom for my ammunition and have them chrono it), I just need to have confidence in the data, and the chart I posted doesnít feel right to me. Shooting wise, I am confident on game out to 650, with plenty of practice out to 500, beyond that I run out of patience and time most often then not to shoot that much.

What ballistics calculator should I be using?


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Isnipe will put out in Mils, need to go to settings. Also, when you hit compute and it brings up the chart, if you touch the yardage you are shooting at it will show you the hold based on reticle. If you hit the button I circled in the lower left corner, it will change from Moa to mils.
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:47 AM   #28
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I use ballistics AE and it works well for me. Your numbers look pretty good, I prefer to have my drop in mrad not clicks (.1mrad).

If the data you input is correct (velocity, BC, etc) it will be really close. You just need to go to the range and shoot to verify.
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Old 11-27-2018, 10:09 AM   #29
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Okay, I think I have this figured out now, and I believe I was reading my calculator wrong. Clear now, continue the conversation though if yíall wish, Iím enjoying the knowledge! Much to benefit here.


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Old 11-27-2018, 10:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesquitecountry View Post
Okay; so I will tell you I’m not a super long range target shooter. I’ve hunted animals, and killed out to 700 yards, lots in the 500’s and some in the 600’s, but I’ve always been a Kentucky windage guy. I’m trying to change that. I’ve read just about everything I can, and my brain hurts. I know how to range with my scopes whether it be vortex, nightforce, leupold, trijicon (both 1/4 moa and mrad 1/10).

My biggest question which hardly no one addresses. How the heck do I take a drop and spin the turrets????

Example. I have ranged a target to 500 yards, and let’s say that bullet drop is 44”. How many clicks up would I have to move my turrets in moa or mrad? I know that mrad is 3.6 inches per mrad. So do I simply divide 44 by 3.6? What about MOA.

Please help! Keep this simple please!


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Your clicks are worth .25" (moa) at a hundred and .36 (mrad) at a hundred yards so you multiple them by 2 for 200yds or 3 for 300 yds or 6.5 for 650 yds etc.....
So at 500 yds your clicks are worth 1.25" (MOA) and 1.8" (MRAD) at so 44/1.25 is 35 clicks or 8.75 moa and 44/1.8 is 24 clicks or 2.4 mils. Your main parameter when shooting longer distances is going to wind. The easiest way I have found to get stuff accurate is a phone app I use StrelokPro.
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Old 11-27-2018, 10:27 AM   #31
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You will get a lot of MRAD and MOA opinions on which is better vise versa I like MOA since it is more standard instead of metric. and the clicks are in smaller increments on your scope .25" at 100yds instead of .36".
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:02 AM   #32
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Strelok is great as well ..

I love the fact it will blue tooth the kestrel into the mix .
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