Black powder percussion old gun question

[3rdShot]

Trying to get some info on this firearm, I know nothing about muzzle loaders. From the markings on the barrel, it appears to be a Narain Jagannath Sikligar Udaipur model, with 1973 stamped with those markings. From what I can find, i think it is a replica of a Snider Enfield Cavalry Carbine...looks similar to one I saw online. Percussion cap firing system, smoothbore barrel.
Several questions:
1)I tried to put the rod down the barrel, and it stops about 2 1/2" before the percussion nipple holder (see pic) and the percussion hole appears to be full of crud. Could this have an unfired charge still in the barrel? This has been handed down among several people, and has been in closets for decades, not sure when it ever had been attempted to be fired.
2)appears to be missing a side / saddle ring deal compared to the pic I saw online, and the rod end is different than that one as well.
3)Any idea of value? The one online was also stamped 1973, and was in nicer condition, sold for $404. This one appears to have some missing parts, and has several handling dings in different places along the stock. Maybe $200 value?

Any info is appreciated!

[Puggy625]

Dave, pull the nipple off the breach and try and dump out whatever is in there. Don't dig it out cause if there's a charge in there, it could still go off if sparked. Get a ball puller and try and extract it to see if there's a ball stuffed down in there.

You'll be lucky if it's worth $200, imo. They are fun to shoot but a pain to clean and keep in good shape. I've got one that's a short barreled version Hawkins. Haven't shot it in years.

I'd oil the crap out of that nipple though. Looks pretty rusted.

[gemini2759]

What puggy said. Take the nipple off and see if it's loaded with powder. I've never had any luck with ball pullers. I've dry balled once and poured as much powder as I could through the nipple and was able to shoot the ball out.
Check out muzzleloadingforum.com. There might be some info on value there.

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[3rdShot]

Good info Greg...I used a cotton swab to get some oil around the nipple plug, it unscrewed easily, that discoloration around it and the gunk in the nipple bore was dust / lint. No powder in the breech / chamber...I was able to get a piece of weedeater string the 2" or so into the nipple hole until it hit the obstruction in the breech...maybe someone ran a ball down the barrel before putting the powder in, and it's been that way for years? I'll order a bullet puller or rig a screw on a dowel to get it out in the next few days, and go from there. May play with it, or try to sell it if there is any interest. Anyone?

[Puggy625]

If there's nothing behind the obstruction, I would pour a little machine oil down in there before trying to pull it out. If it's a ball and it's been in there a long time, guaranteed it's stuck like Chuck. A little oil might get in there enough to let it loose.

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[3rdShot]

Learn something every day...looking through some topics on muzzleloadingforum.com, when someone gets distracted talking or something and goes out of sequence by running the bullet down the barrel before the powder charge, it's called "dry balling" and happens pretty regularly. Suggestions range from going ahead and seating the bullet then putting a few grains of powder down the nipple hole and firing/squibbing the bullet out the barrel(too much of a newbie to try this with an unknown capability weapon), to using the screw/drill bit style bullet puller to pull it out manually(will try this in the next couple of days to see if I can get the bullet out). Thinking of getting a long self-tapping screw...cut the head off. Drill a hole in the end of a dowel and screwing the head-end of the screw into the dowel, then tapping while turning the dowel to get the screw to dig into the hopefully soft lead bullet and pulling it out. Update to come...

[Puggy625]

Video please. Might want to have the sound turned down though as it might not be kid friendly by the time you're done. Lol

Let us know how it turns out.

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[dustoffer]

I'm surprised no one has recommended compressed air thru the nipple to blow the obstruction out---

[TacticalCowboy]

I'm surprised no one has recommended compressed air thru the nipple to blow the obstruction out---

Money well spent on this one.

[3rdShot]

I'm surprised no one has recommended compressed air thru the nipple to blow the obstruction out---

Great idea! I have a compressor, and the rubber tipped hand valve should fit into the nipple hole. Will try that after work today.

Thanks!

[3rdShot]

Where there is a will, there is a red-neck engineered way to move something!!

The bullet puller kept pulling out of the obstruction, so I ended up using the long self-tapping screw to chew chunks of the obstructuion out until there was a hole through it. Then I used a long piece of all-thread rod, and screwed it a dozen turns through the obstruction, then clipped a vice grip to the rod, and lightly tapped it until the obstruction came all the way along the barrel, and out.

Yea!!

The reason I keep using the word "obstruction, is that I'm not sure what it is. See the pics.
It looks like some kind of lead plug rather than a bullet. Any info on identifying this would be appreciated. I ran several oiled patches down the barrel, they came out kind of muddy brown looking from some friction down in the chamber. Pretty clean now, still want to use a shotgun brush to get it cleaner. Removed the nipple, and shined a flashlight into the hole, can see light down the barrel, but not clear enough to see how clean the barrel is.

So, is this gun ready to be test fired? Will need some bullet / load info...

[Puggy625]

Looks like the remains of some type of Sabot bullet. I would just start with round ball and light powder load to start with. Then work your way up to more ooomph!

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[3rdShot]

Pic of the base of the slug

[Phillip Fields]

That looks like a 3-groove Minie ball, but I've never seen one with a flat nose. The cupped base was designed to flare and seal the bore as well as engaging the rifling when fired.