Antler Restriction Ethical Question

[randal]

This I wouldn't intentionally shoot one under but I wouldn't turn myself in either. At the same time, if Mr. Green Jeans was to walk into camp I would would tell him up front. Probably not an issue for me as I'm not gonna shoot one unless he is way beyond any judgement call but I can see where a close call might be made on a young kids first buck.

I don't intentionally speed but if I look down and I am, I don't stop at the next officer I see and tell him I was speeding.

Agreed

[Quackerbox]

IMO I think there is a difference between an old mature deer that is 12.5 wide and a 2 yr old 12 inch wide 8 that the law was written to protect.. Either way you may end up with a ticket unfortunately

[Buckslayertx]

Easy.....don't shoot it in the first place. Ethics and judgement are part of being a responsible hunter. Knowing the laws, setting a good example, and being above reproach call on a hunter to do the right thing. Not figure out after the fact. If he's that close pass on him and wait for the legal buck to show. Don't put your self in situation where you have to figure out what to do and whether you have to compromise yourself for your actions.

[miket]

It's a question of ethics and honesty. I hunt with my kids most times. If I don't do the right things in front of their eyes, what am I teaching them?

This is a good point, one that I didnt consider. My previous answer was assuming I was alone, without my kids.

[HoustonHunter]

Go MLD and rid yourself of the 13" rule. Nuff said.

[miket]

Easy.....don't shoot it in the first place. Ethics and judgement are part of being a responsible hunter. Knowing the laws, setting a good example, and being above reproach call on a hunter to do the right thing. Not figure out after the fact. If he's that close pass on him and wait for the legal buck to show. Don't put your self in situation where you have to figure out what to do and whether you have to compromise yourself for your actions.

Of course " dont shoot it in the first place", but the question the OP posed didnt give the option. You DID shoot it. Now what?

[Outbreaker]

Happened to a buddy of mine. 6.5yo deer, body looked like a 55 gallon drum with broomstick legs. Tape.......12.5 inches. We called the GW, he met us at the gate. Due to the age of the deer he was just given a warning and told to watch it in the future.

A 6.5yo 12.5 inch deer that was an 8pt and only scored 95 inches. This is what spikes grow up into. The war on spikes then started.

[AntlerCollector]

I shot a 10 point that's was 5.5 years old and 12 3/4". I called the game warden on myself. I told him it would be hanging in my walk in cooler for him when he had time to stop by. He came out and looked at it, and said he probably would have shot it too then closed the cooler door and left. Hindsight I never should have shot. He was broadsided and looked like a monster.

[BigThicketBoy]

Most GW will work with you on and honest mistake.
We had a deer killed one yr that was 12.5. or so. BUT when you held the deers ears up the the were inside the rack.
The hunter called GW and the first thing he did was grab the ears and ask whats the problem? Guys told him to measure it. He did and it wasn't 13. He say he would have shot it to, wrote him a warning and let his wife keep the deer.


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[TexasBowtech]

This is y I think the 13 inch rule should only be on public lands. If it's ur place and u want to take à deer off of it. Why should the state be able to tell u just cuz he 12 inches he won't taste as good as a 13 inch deer. If you really r trying to grow big deer u should be able to cull out the deer u want to just my opinion.

[Buckslayertx]

I didn't shoot it and wouldn't. Now it's his problem to deal with not mine. Did he shoot it by himself or are there others in camp that know? What do they do? I feel he should take the consequences for his actions ethically and legally. We all make mistakes and honesty is rewarded in most cases.

[MagicBlade]

I don't believe anyone on our lease would intentionally shoot a buck that was close to 13".

But to be safe, after the discussion this week at the lease I found this on an old post.
I have sent it to everyone on our lease.


This is the restitution part of the Fine + Restitution.

Texas Administrative Code


TITLE 31 NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 69 RESOURCE PROTECTION
SUBCHAPTER B FISH AND WILDLIFE VALUES
RULE §69.30 Trophy Wildlife Species

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(a) The recovery value for individual white-tailed or mule deer, pronghorn antelope, and bighorn sheep shall be derived from the gross Boone and Crockett score of the horns or antlers plus the value derived for wildlife species in §69.22 of this title (relating to Wildlife--Recovery Values), using the following formulae:

(1) White-tailed deer--The formula for white-tailed deer shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 100 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 100) 2 x $1.65) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(2) Mule deer--The formula for mule deer shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 110 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 110) 2 x $1.00) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(3) Pronghorn antelope--The formula for pronghorn antelope shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 40 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 40)2 x $2.00) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(4) Bighorn sheep--The formula for bighorn sheep shall be applied to all individuals whose gross score exceeds 100 Boone and Crockett inches. The formula shall be: Recovery Value = ((gross score - 100) 2 x $11.70) plus the value derived in §69.22 of this title.

(b) The measurement procedure for obtaining the Boone and Crockett gross score shall follow: Nesbitt, W.H. and P.L. Wright. 1985. Measuring and Scoring North American Big Game Trophies. Boone and Crockett Club. 176 pp.

Here's the 69.22 section that you add to the values Dena posted:



Texas Administrative Code
Next Rule>>
TITLE 31 NATURAL RESOURCES AND CONSERVATION
PART 2 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT
CHAPTER 69 RESOURCE PROTECTION
SUBCHAPTER B FISH AND WILDLIFE VALUES
RULE §69.22 Wildlife--Recovery Values
(a) Each species of bird, reptile, amphibian, or animal shall be assigned a score of 0-3 for each of eight scoring criteria. The sum of the scores for the eight criteria (subsection (b) of this section) shall be multiplied by a weighting factor (subsection (c) of this section), and the resulting adjusted criteria score is compared to the monetary scale (subsection (d) of this section) to obtain a monetary value.

(b) For scoring criteria listed in paragraphs (1)-(8) of this subsection, a species which is not sought at all shall be scored as 0, while a highly sought species shall be scored 3.

(1) Recreation. The extent to which a species is actively sought by users with wildlife interests. Scoring considers both harvest and nonharvest use of a species.

(2) Aesthetic. The social value of wildlife species. These values represent wildlife species' beauty or unique natural history. Aesthetic values for these species exist whether or not a person ever would encounter one in its natural habitat.

(3) Educational. The educational value of a species arising from, for example, published materials and other audio-visual media about the species, displays in zoos, or the relative frequency with which the species is used to exemplify important curricula principles.

(4) Scarcity. The relative population of a species within the range of its habitat, from abundant to scarce.

(5) Environmental Tolerance. The ability of a species to tolerate normal changes in climate, topography, water regimes or other ecological factors which may limit range and population.

(6) Economics. The direct or indirect economic benefit attributable to the species as a result of recreational or legal transactions.

(7) Recruitment. Reproductive and survival potential of a species as it relates to the capability for replacement of its population following decrease or loss.

(8) Ecological role. A species' relationships with other life forms--and the species contribution to a healthful and stable balance of nature. Widely-consumed forage species score high, as do predators which control prey species populations. Forage species that are not widely consumed score low, as do predators which contribute little to regulation of prey populations.

(c) The individual scores for the criteria are summed to derive a total criteria score. The total criteria score is multiplied by a weighting factor which adjusts the summed criteria score for variance in public demand and/or perception of value for a species. The weighting factor relates the overall demand for a species to its existing supply and to future opportunity for public use. The weighting factors are:

(1) 1.0--Abundant. No additional public demand or perception of value exists beyond that reflected by the eight criteria in subsection (b) of this section;

(2) 1.1--Frequent. Minor disparity exists between resource availability and public interest and the public demand fluctuates periodically around an equilibrium point;

(3) 1.3--Rare. Substantial disparity exists between available supply and identified public interest in species that are subject to ongoing management programs;

(4) 1.5--Scarce. The species populations are never expected to meet identified demands or needs, or management programs for a limited species are not fully developed with respect to planned recreational opportunity and economic contribution.

(d) The total criteria score multiplied by the weighting factor in subsections (a)-(c) of this section, provides an adjusted criteria score and corresponding recovery value for each species.

Adjusted Criteria

Score Range


Monetary Value

1 - 5.9 = $5.00

6 - 8.9 = $13.50

9 - 10.9 = $26.00

11 - 12.9 = $59.50

13 - 14.9 = $105.50

15 - 16.9 = $273.50

17 - 18.9 = $881.50

19 - 20.9 = $1,929.50

21 - 23.9 = $4,780.50

24 - 36.9 = $11,907.50

[ranchdog]

I lost a friend over this exact issue as I was the lease manager.

The first time he shot one less than 13" (turned out to be 11") he didn't turn himself in and I didn't turn him in. I called TPWD and asked am I under obligation to turn him in and they said no as long as you don't help clean or hide or any other action to conceal it.
Then two years later he does it again from 200 yard shot it was 12". This time he called the game warden on himself which I was glad he did and he was mad at himself over it.
Now of course the game warden took his remaining buck tags in the process that year.

Well next time at the lease he ask since he has no buck tags left can his wife shoot a 13" or bigger one and I said uh NO. You shot your Big buck for the year, its not my fault you shot an illegal one (really 2 over 3 years time). He was so mad and couldn't understand my stance. I am like look we only have 500 acres and its not fair to the other hunters for you holding one lease spot to get to shoot two over 13" bucks. There are only a few running around here.
Well he won't speak to me anymore and we run into each other every so often. I am sad that he can't see the situation for what it was. It would not have been fair to the other hunters on the lease. He only paid for one spot on the lease and all family members hunt off your tag allotment. But it is what it is and I had to move on with the loss of a friend.

RD

[BigThicketBoy]

I shot a 10 point that's was 5.5 years old and 12 3/4". I called the game warden on myself. I told him it would be hanging in my walk in cooler for him when he had time to stop by. He came out and looked at it, and said he probably would have shot it too then closed the cooler door and left. Hindsight I never should have shot. He was broadsided and looked like a monster.

I know the one you speak of and he is fair but firm also.
If he believes it was an honest mistake he will work with you . How ever if it's a basket 8 and way inside the ears he is going to hold you accountable.
Don't judge them from behind either, they look a lot bigger from the rear end!!!

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[flywise]

If you shoot it in the head and break the skull apart you can make it as wide as you want