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Old 12-09-2019, 06:36 AM   #1
Cantcatch5
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Default Roofer involvement in hail damage claim

I have a question about a roofing companies involvement in a hail damage claim. We had a representative from a large reputable roofing company come to our door asking if we would like for him to take a look at our roof since they had had several successful claims for hail damage in our neighborhood. I told him I knew we had minimal hail damage but had been meaning to have a roofer out to give a bid on a few small non storm related issues with the roof (raised decking in a couple of places and replacing vent caps). He looked at the roof and took a bunch of pictures of storm damage to the roof and gutters and wanted to make a claim. He actually wanted me to sign a contract with his company and wanted to be there when the adjuster came out to ďrepresentĒ me.

I refused to sign a contract and said I would decide on making the claim after seeing their bid, and rereading my policy but they donít want to give me a bid...said they work off of the adjusters bid. I donít want to give up any insurance money coming to me but this just seems backwards. It seems to me like I would get bids independent of the insurance adjustment and then make a claim myself. Although Having a roofer on hand to argue my case does seem like it could be beneficial.

Anyone deal with this before and have any input?

Thanks, Jason
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:52 AM   #2
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Their bill will be whatever your insurance covers, no pocket money will be left.
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:55 AM   #3
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Just have your agent send an adjuster.
It wont ding you or cost anything
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Old 12-09-2019, 06:57 AM   #4
BrandonH
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This seems to be common practice these days, because I've experienced the same thing along with several others I know of.

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Old 12-09-2019, 06:59 AM   #5
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Insurance companies pay a lot when it comes to a roof. The difference could be as much as 50% more.
If he would over your deductible it would be worth it if you do need a new roof.
Depending on what hat deductible is, most companies that want the work can absorb that cost, since the insurance is paying the higher costs.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:00 AM   #6
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The insurance companies have rules on what they will allow a claim on. My company said 10 impacts on a 10x10 square on three slopes.

If you don’t have a roofing company present I’m sure the insurance adjuster will be much more careful in inspecting. I assume they don’t want to fight with the roofing company so they are more likely to approve.

To have this representation present the roofer wants you to sign so he doesn’t drive to your house, hang out an hour and not get paid.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:02 AM   #7
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Also, be careful with “We’ll cover your deductible”. That just means your insurance will offer to cover some extras like window screens, trim pieces etc. and they won’t do the work to “cover the deductible”.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:03 AM   #8
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Contingency based agreement. If I meet the adjuster on your behalf and we are able to agree on damages then I get the job. Seems fair.
The insurance numbers are not a secret.
I’ve been an adjuster and have roofed for over 20 years. Not in this to pay someone else’s late bills or vacation fund either.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:07 AM   #9
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Their bill will be whatever your insurance covers, no pocket money will be left.
Pocket money?
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:10 AM   #10
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Just to clarify I am not looking to get any leftover money or get my deductible covered by anyone. It just seemed shady to me to refuse to give me a bid. It seemed to me like I would get a couple of bids prior to calling insurance company. My out of pocket would be the difference in the bid I choose and what insurance covered. I guess that is t how it is done?

Sounds to me like maybe contractors like to try to stick it to the insurance company...is that what is going on?
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cantcatch5 View Post
Just to clarify I am not looking to get any leftover money or get my deductible covered by anyone. It just seemed shady to me to refuse to give me a bid. It seemed to me like I would get a couple of bids prior to calling insurance company. My out of pocket would be the difference in the bid I choose and what insurance covered. I guess that is t how it is done?

Sounds to me like maybe contractors like to try to stick it to the insurance company...is that what is going on?

There are insurance bids and there are cash bids....knowing the insurance companies pay more...hence the difference.

Get a bid saying you're paying out of pocket, and then filing an insurance claim...people pocket the difference
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:21 AM   #12
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Some snakey people in the roofing business. No way I'd sign a contract before having an adjuster come out. And I wouldn't do business with one that does cold calling.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:30 AM   #13
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Some snakey people in the roofing business. No way I'd sign a contract before having an adjuster come out. And I wouldn't do business with one that does cold calling.
Guys are just trying to make a living....some quality roofers do cold calling. Lots of guys cant afford the advertising like big companies can.

I am sure there are some shady ones also.....do your due diligence
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:33 AM   #14
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don’t pay any money until the job is complete
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:41 AM   #15
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I got a bid from a local roofer after our last hail storm. He wanted to 'handle' the claim. I told him I would take care of all that and he would get the job if the insurance co approved the claim. The roofer came out when the adjuster did on my behalf. He was able to push for some extra things from the insurance co and the insurance co denied a couple of small nickel and dime items as well. We all came to an agreement of what I deemed fair and acceptable and I gave the roofer the job. Just be sure everyone knows YOU are in charge
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:53 AM   #16
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If you're roofer creates an estimate using Xactimate pricing (industry standard for insurance companies and restoration contractors) the scope of work/repairs is what will determine the value of the loss. If the line items included in both are the same; the value of the loss will be nearly identical. Different ball game from cash estimates. My estimates are almost always higher than the insurance carrier's because of missing line items from the scope of repairs. Roofers will normally work with the insurance company's scope of repairs and then "supplement" anything that's missing or before or after the work is completed and then include any additional repairs that couldn't have been foreseen at the time of the adjuster's inspection (ex. additional layers of felt that needed to be removed, sheathing repairs, etc.). Anyway, I hear you. If you want them to create a detailed scope of work to give you then they should accommodate but also consider "interviewing" different roofers and find the one you want to "supplement" your insurance company instead of getting estimates because in the end, that is what is going to happen anyway unless you will be handling all the communication and invoicing with your insurance company yourself. Just my .02. Hope it helps. Your only cost should be your deductible, upgrades, and anything you don't have coverage for (cosmetic exclusions for example).

Last edited by Jesus is Coming; 12-09-2019 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:08 AM   #17
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Working off the insurance bid helps them not commit insurance fraud.
I don't mind giving a client a bed but if I do- I never want to see the insurance paperwork.
I deal with the roof and the client- perfectly legal. the client can deal with the insurance.
If I see the insurance paperwork I have to go by the insurance paperwork.
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:58 AM   #18
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We request to meet with the adjuster, but do not require a signed contract. It¬’d a way to earn your business by going the extra mile. One would think adjusters are craftsmen of their trade, and many are, some are not. I can share horror stories of poor adjustments and these aren’t pee pee matches between the roofer and the insurance company fighting over extra dollars.

I have a lady whose house we roofed 18 months ago. She gets hit again in April. Advised her to make a claim. Adjuster comes out, approved the claim. However this claim comes in several squares smaller and did not include the right grade of roofing materials. Completely screwed the pooch on the claim. Claim is $3,000 less than what is necessary to properly restore her home. Had I been present we could have confirmed quantities and components. Instead it began a back and forth that lasted from June to November to get the supplement approved.

Have a roofer present, a good one who doesent require a contract and won¬’t nickel and dime your insurance carrier but will fight to make sure your claim is appropriate for the damage
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:22 AM   #19
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I could be wrong, itís happened before. I thought in Texas it was illegal for any contractors to negotiate a claim on a insureds behalf. I thought you had to be a public adjuster to represent a homeowner in an insurance claim?
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I could be wrong, itís happened before. I thought in Texas it was illegal for any contractors to negotiate a claim on a insureds behalf. I thought you had to be a public adjuster to represent a homeowner in an insurance claim?
This is correct according to law Ö Technically
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:49 AM   #21
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A roofer cant negotiate the PRICE of a roof. They can negotiate the claim and what all is needed to complete the job. I dont do contracts until we are just about to do the roof and even then, if the customer wants to back at that is fine and i dont hold them to anything. I like meeting with adjusters just so everyone is on the same page.
As far as “pocket money”.... well, good luck. Hard to do anymore because normally the first check doesnt cover everything.
I do EVERYTHING on the insurance estimates unless the customer says not to do something.

I really wish they would make roofers have a license in Texas though... be alot easier and keep the overnighters out
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Old 12-09-2019, 09:56 AM   #22
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If a salesman (call them what they are - they aren't roofers) offers to represent you or work on your behalf, you're working with a criminal.

Representing, negotiating, settling, whatever word you want to use....of an insurance claim for the policyholder is the exclusive purview of 2 types of people ---

attorneys and licensed public adjusters.

Honestly, I've been an adjuster for a long, long time, and there's no way in hell that I would sign anything with a roofer, give them any money up front, or rely on anything that they tell me in regards to an insurance claim.

(and yes, I know a few good roofers - they don't need a contract from me, they have the financial standing to finance a job, and they don't stick their nose where it doesn't belong. If that describes you, then I'm not talking about you
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:03 AM   #23
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Here comes the bashing of roofers. Like I tell my home owners there is bad people on every side. There is bad adjusters, there is bad homeowners, and there is also bad roofers. But not all are bad in any category. Good luck and do your research. If you have any questions pm me I'll be happy to answer them. I'm sure some of these other guys can answer them as well.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:04 AM   #24
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New law went into effect about deductibles. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but believe somethibg to the effect that companies, i.e., roofing, cannot waive deductibles and must be paid.

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Old 12-09-2019, 10:10 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Baystealth89 View Post
Here comes the bashing of roofers. Like I tell my home owners there is bad people on every side. There is bad adjusters, there is bad homeowners, and there is also bad roofers. But not all are bad in any category. Good luck and do your research. If you have any questions pm me I'll be happy to answer them. I'm sure some of these other guys can answer them as well.
No joke. I try to do everything to HELP the homeowner and still get called a snake. I know some really chitty adjusters also. Especially allstate ones
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:17 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by DFWPI View Post
New law went into effect about deductibles. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but believe somethibg to the effect that companies, i.e., roofing, cannot waive deductibles and must be paid.

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Basically... plus has to be paid up front and proof (cc/debit card receipt) sent to the insurance company in many cases as well.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:39 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Atfulldraw View Post
If a salesman (call them what they are - they aren't roofers) offers to represent you or work on your behalf, you're working with a criminal.

Representing, negotiating, settling, whatever word you want to use....of an insurance claim for the policyholder is the exclusive purview of 2 types of people ---

attorneys and licensed public adjusters.
So then why is this allowed? I know TDI has gone after a few roofing companies in the past, but why have they not filed on any insurance companies? Are they not just as criminally liable for knowingly working with a roofing company?
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Old 12-09-2019, 12:11 PM   #28
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So then why is this allowed? I know TDI has gone after a few roofing companies in the past, but why have they not filed on any insurance companies? Are they not just as criminally liable for knowingly working with a roofing company?
Itís been the Wild West for too long.

To answer your question, no....the carrier can pretty much do what they want, unfortunately.
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Atfulldraw View Post
Itís been the Wild West for too long.

To answer your question, no....the carrier can pretty much do what they want, unfortunately.
I agree with Wild West. Thats why i wish they would go with making roofers be licensed.

I see more problems with roofers hiring public adjusters... errr homeowners being told to hire them, than salesmen being the problem. Im by myself. No salesmen no nothing. Each customer deals wo the owner directly
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Old 12-09-2019, 03:11 PM   #30
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went threw the same a year or so ago , what I learned is that a 6k roof is the same as a 10k roof . thats is why you cant get a legit bid with out the roofing companys wanting to get involved with your insurance company .
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy67 View Post
There are insurance bids and there are cash bids....knowing the insurance companies pay more...hence the difference.

Get a bid saying you're paying out of pocket, and then filing an insurance claim...people pocket the difference
The only way this will work is if you commit insurance fraud. If you get a bid for $8,000 and file a claim you will need to provide the invoice to prove completion in order to recover depreciation.

Letís say the Replacement Cost Value (RCV) is $10,000 and you have a $2,000 deductible. If you submit that invoice for $8,000 the insurance will pay $8,000 less $2,000 deductible for a net payout of $6,000.

The only way you pocket cash is to provide a false invoice for $10,000 or more and pay the roofer the $8,000. At $10,000 you break even.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atfulldraw View Post
If a salesman (call them what they are - they aren't roofers) offers to represent you or work on your behalf, you're working with a criminal.

Representing, negotiating, settling, whatever word you want to use....of an insurance claim for the policyholder is the exclusive purview of 2 types of people ---

attorneys and licensed public adjusters.

Honestly, I've been an adjuster for a long, long time, and there's no way in hell that I would sign anything with a roofer, give them any money up front, or rely on anything that they tell me in regards to an insurance claim.

(and yes, I know a few good roofers - they don't need a contract from me, they have the financial standing to finance a job, and they don't stick their nose where it doesn't belong. If that describes you, then I'm not talking about you
I donít represent, settle, negotiate or any other word. I do request to be present at the adjuster meeting. In doing so I can often gauge by the demeanor of the adjuster how tight he is going to adjust. I only get on the roof if the adjuster invites me. When up there I help run measurements if he is doing a hand measure and answer any questions he has. But it is usually small talk. At the end I ask to review scope. Iíve already done my homework and have a pretty decent idea of what damages exist, I want to know if the adjusterís findings match mine. They often ask if I noticed anything different. Often I didnít. In the event I did, I mention it. It is up to the adjuster to look more closely. Most prefer not to have to deal with unnecessary supplements or follow up adjustments.

I never call out work I donít intend to do. I donít do fences, Iím not interested in the ACV for hail dings in a stained fence. I only worry about work I intend to do.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:44 PM   #33
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Default Roofer involvement in hail damage claim

After several run arounds with Allstate about our roof we had a roofer come out after a bad hail storm earlier this year. The Allstate adjuster previously said that the damage was less than our deductible and that it would be best handed out of pocket. That just didnít seem right so we had a reputable roofer come out and he saw things differently. We contacted Allstate again and they sent the adjuster out again this time with our roofer present. We ended up getting a new roof out of the deal and I was happy with the job the roofer did working with the adjuster on our behalf. We did have to sign a waiver that we would use the roofer involved with the claim but we had previous vetted them and were going to use them anyway so it was no big deal.


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Old 12-09-2019, 10:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
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I don’t represent, settle, negotiate or any other word. I do request to be present at the adjuster meeting. In doing so I can often gauge by the demeanor of the adjuster how tight he is going to adjust. I only get on the roof if the adjuster invites me. When up there I help run measurements if he is doing a hand measure and answer any questions he has. But it is usually small talk. At the end I ask to review scope. I’ve already done my homework and have a pretty decent idea of what damages exist, I want to know if the adjuster’s findings match mine. They often ask if I noticed anything different. Often I didn’t. In the event I did, I mention it. It is up to the adjuster to look more closely. Most prefer not to have to deal with unnecessary supplements or follow up adjustments.

I never call out work I don’t intend to do. I don’t do fences, I’m not interested in the ACV for hail dings in a stained fence. I only worry about work I intend to do.
There ya go.

It's called staying in your lane.

You're doing it right.

Your best weapon as a contractor is a well-informed (and ready to fight) homeowner.
Educating them with good information is good for everyone.
Let them play the desk adjuster and their agent to get what they deserve.
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Old 12-10-2019, 12:38 PM   #35
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I just went through this earlier this year. Had roof inspected by one roofer - got bids from 2 more - then called my insurance. I dealt with my insurance company directly - and paid the roofer. The roofer I selected provided me with the most comprehensive and detailed estimate and explained the process the best out of the 3 I dealt with. He met with the insurance adjuster at my house to walk the roof and answer any questions. I had my claim approved same day and roof replaced 2 days later. Smooth and easy process.
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Old 12-10-2019, 07:22 PM   #36
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Get 3-4 quotes on what needs to be done. Same thing, feel them out. If they sound shady, move on to the next guy.
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:04 PM   #37
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insurance industry owns both sides of the isle, all snakes
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:03 AM   #38
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I donít represent, settle, negotiate or any other word. I do request to be present at the adjuster meeting. In doing so I can often gauge by the demeanor of the adjuster how tight he is going to adjust. I only get on the roof if the adjuster invites me. When up there I help run measurements if he is doing a hand measure and answer any questions he has. But it is usually small talk. At the end I ask to review scope. Iíve already done my homework and have a pretty decent idea of what damages exist, I want to know if the adjusterís findings match mine. They often ask if I noticed anything different. Often I didnít. In the event I did, I mention it. It is up to the adjuster to look more closely. Most prefer not to have to deal with unnecessary supplements or follow up adjustments.

I never call out work I donít intend to do. I donít do fences, Iím not interested in the ACV for hail dings in a stained fence. I only worry about work I intend to do.
Thanks, I appreciate this answer! I just thought it was odd to not get an estimate or bid from the roofer. I had to put this on the back burner for a bit due to getting busy at work and the holidays.

Like I said before I am not looking to make money or get out of my deductible I just expected more info prior to calling my ins. company.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:28 AM   #39
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Will they raise your rates after a claim? If they do could a person hold off till absolutely necessary or will insurance company claim that was old damage? Here in Texas seems like we get hail at least once a year.
When we lived in Colorado it hailed just about every time it rained. But we were at the base of the Wet mountains. Weather changed very quickly there.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:31 AM   #40
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Just have your agent send an adjuster.
It wont ding you or cost anything
This is not true. The second you get the insurance company involved it becomes a claim. Even if you decide not to use the insurance company you will more than likely have a zero paid out claim on your history. That affects your rating also.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:39 AM   #41
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Ask for the roofers references in the area and call them. Ask about their experience with said roofer and how the claim was handled.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:45 AM   #42
cva34
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: van vleck
Hunt In: LOOKING
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechfish View Post
donít pay any money until the job is complete
Thats a big AMEN...!!!!
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:52 AM   #43
Acameron52
Pope & Young
 
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lewisville
Hunt In: Coleman & Loving
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Roofers are getting to be as sleezy as car salesmen these days. Still good guys out there but getting harder and harder to find!
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:54 AM   #44
friscopaint
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Collinsville
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I used local roofer I knew he looked at roof and said definitely damage and on the app iy showed hail and tornado in my area. Filed claim with usaa and adjuster agreed and even looked at barn and shop (his idea not mine) but said they didn't quite have enough. This is why I'll pay USAA rates !!! Allstate has the worst reputation on paying claims.
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:11 AM   #45
Mission408
Four Point
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cleburne
Hunt In: Brownwood
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I run install for a roof company. A GOOD roofing company will require you to pay your deductible. Covering it is illegal. We routinely see homeowners screw themselves trying to handle there own claim and get bids. When working for insurance proceedes we always find 10-35% additional work needed the insurance was going to short the h.o. theres a lot involved too much to type here. Remember this only applys to A GOOD REPUTABLE roofing company
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:38 AM   #46
Mohawkman
Eight Point
 
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Navarro County
Hunt In: TX, NM, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickbow View Post
insurance industry owns both sides of the isle, all snakes
no comment!
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:44 AM   #47
Mohawkman
Eight Point
 
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Navarro County
Hunt In: TX, NM, CO
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This was just passed and was needed. We should not profit in any way from an insurance loss. Fraud causes higher underwriting losses. Which causes higher premiums.
https://www.propertyinsurancecoverag...texas-hb-1202/
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Old 01-12-2020, 08:40 AM   #48
helibow
Ten Point
 
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Hunt In: Bosque Cty and Colorado
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I took a small hiatus several years back from my healthcare career to do some business with my best friend who owns a roofing company. Took an adjusters class, learned how to measure, etc. He is one of the good ones that AtFullDraw talks about, in fact, he is still in business today and has 5-star reviews. It was definitely a learning experience for me... we were a "preferred contractor" with several insurance companies, and often recommended by agents to their clients. I tried hard to educate the homeowner, sometimes it worked.... sometimes it didn't. I ran into plenty of homeowners that wanted me to bake the claim and split pocket money, pay deductibles, etc. I also had a catastrophe team adjuster that was too old and fat to get on a ladder, so he offered to pay me a "ladder assist fee" to get on the roof, with his camera, measure and put the claim in xactamate… and in turn he offered to recommend me to the homeowner.... I never baked a claim, I never took a ladder fee... and I was out of that business almost as quickly as I got in it because of the unethical behavior or homeowners, insurance adjusters and other roofers.
Point is... there are good and bad on both sides of the fence. Do your due diligence, figure out what you need from the contractor, determine the level of trust you feel comfortable giving, and move from there.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:00 PM   #49
CodyWitt
Six Point
 
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Thrall TX
Hunt In: Old Mexico
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Listen to the roofer. As a roofer myself our interest align, having him present for the inspection will only help both of y’all. They will probably work directly off the insurance adjustment which is the way most of us do it. If you have any thoughts of pocketing money from the claim that is insurance fraud and any roofing company’s will report it if they find out that’s what you are doing. (Not saying that is your plan, just putting it out there” listen to the roofer, pay your deductible and hire the most qualified roofer you can.
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