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Old 08-23-2019, 03:03 PM   #1
Mike D
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Default Trump, NRA and GOP about to sell out gun owners......AGAIN

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2019/08/2...ground-checks/

Probably a bit premature but will be interesting to see what happens. Wouldnít surprise me a bit if the NRA is on board.


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Old 08-23-2019, 03:27 PM   #2
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All Iím reading is stiffer back ground checks. Am I missing something here?


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Old 08-23-2019, 03:35 PM   #3
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All Iím reading is stiffer back ground checks. Am I missing something here?


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Same here.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:40 PM   #4
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They canít properly execute the background check system in place now...


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Old 08-23-2019, 03:59 PM   #5
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They canít properly execute the background check system in place now...


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And herein lies the problem.
More or stricter will only make people feel good. It will make no one safer.
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Old 08-23-2019, 04:24 PM   #6
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There was a kid in Austin arrested for carrying guns at a park. He had a felony warrant from Harris County. When he bought his AR, it didn't trigger a rejection. That's a huge problem. Also, when he checked the box on the 4473 about being a fugitive from justice, he lied. The feds would never accept that charge, but thats also an issue. How many prohibited persons get rejected knowing they are a felon, have a family violence convictions, renounced their citizenship, etc...? What ever happens to those folks?

With no hard data, I heard once the average time for felon in possession of a firearm in travis county was around 6-8 months, when the max is 10 years. How many of those sweetheart sentences came back to reoffend or commit a more egregious crime?

Let's fix the system first, arrest folks who knowingly apply when they can't legally possess firearms, and hammer felon in possession cases. Just my two cents here.
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Old 08-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #7
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If they ever get to where they canít buy them, theyíll just go back to stealing them like they used to. At least maybe that way we will get to shoot a couple of themÖ


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Old 08-23-2019, 04:33 PM   #8
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Hmmm...last quote I heard Trump say on the 'universal' checks was more towards crawfishing?? Said it was a slippery slope & was even being criticized for it by Schumer & others??

I'm betting that meeting between them was more along the lines of: The base doesn't want anymore gun control laws period. Background checks won't stop the shootings & Red flag laws without due process are already a disaster & going to be challenged.
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:39 PM   #9
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And herein lies the problem.

More or stricter will only make people feel good. It will make no one safer.


I understand this. You understand this. Any half way smart person understands this. But if it shuts up the left, I guess Iím for it.


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Old 08-23-2019, 05:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Dale Moser View Post
If they ever get to where they can’t buy them, they’ll just go back to stealing them like they used to. At least maybe that way we will get to shoot a couple of them…


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Agreed and this also leads back to my prior comment. Crazy people will do their crazy things and no amount of litigation or laws is going to change that.
A lot more good guys with guns is the only true solution.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:17 PM   #11
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I understand this. You understand this. Any half way smart person understands this. But if it shuts up the left, I guess Iím for it.


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Do you really believe anything but confiscation will ever shut the left up about guns? Every cave further dilutes the Constitution and makes their next move that much easier.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:20 PM   #12
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Do you really believe anything but confiscation will ever shut the left up about guns? Every cave further dilutes the Constitution and makes their next move that much easier.


I see that side too. Itís a sticky situation indeed


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Old 08-23-2019, 10:07 PM   #13
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Pretty sure nothing about background checks in the Constitution. You don't have to have a background check to exercise any other Rights.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:27 PM   #14
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I understand this. You understand this. Any half way smart person understands this. But if it shuts up the left, I guess Iím for it.


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You are crazy if you think it will shut up the left. It's a manufactured crisis. We dont have some kind of out of control mass shooting problem. Keep your emotions in check.



Zero compromise.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:29 PM   #15
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You are crazy if you think it will shut up the left. It's a manufactured crisis. We dont have some kind of out of control mass shooting problem. Keep your emotions in check.







Zero compromise.


I know it wonít shut them up. But Iím also ok with them being able to keep guns out of certain peopleís hands.


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Old 08-23-2019, 10:34 PM   #16
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I know it wonít shut them up. But Iím also ok with them being able to keep guns out of certain peopleís hands.


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As am I, but that is not their goal. Confiscation is their goal, and that will start with this, this will lead to registration, and registration will lead to confiscation....which they have stated IS their goal.

Watch for taxation on ammo mixed in as well.


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Old 08-23-2019, 10:52 PM   #17
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Trump said he isn't going down that slippery slope just yesterday I believe. He plays the Democrats at every chance. TheDems are going in circles chasing their tails. I will wait to see what if anything actually comes about as a bill that makes it through house.
The Dems don't have time for gun legislation right now, they need to get back to pursuing the Russian collusion case they are working on. As we all know Adam Schiff has ****ing evidence that he is about ready to release that will prove Trump colluded with Russia, or as Tucker Carlson says, RRRRuuuuSSSSiaa. Lol

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Old 08-23-2019, 11:44 PM   #18
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I know it wonít shut them up. But Iím also ok with them being able to keep guns out of certain peopleís hands.


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Hahahaha, just like how criminals don't get guns or drugs now? A new law that says, "really, we mean it this time, don't steal or lie or else" would be just as effective.

Quit punishing people who haven't committed a crime because someone else has. That is all new gun laws will accomplish
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:34 AM   #19
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I know it won’t shut them up. But I’m also ok with them being able to keep guns out of certain people’s hands.


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How has laws worked to keep drugs out of people's hands?

Hell they cant even keep drugs out of prisons where they have 100% control of everyone.


But somehow there is going to be some type of magic happen to keep guns out of criminals hands?

Their goal is to disarm every citizen of the United States.
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:42 AM   #20
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How has laws worked to keep drugs out of people's hands?



Hell they cant even keep drugs out of prisons where they have 100% control of everyone.





But somehow there is going to be some type of magic happen to keep guns out of criminals hands?


Iím not getting into a debate over back ground checks. All Iím saying is that Iím in favor of them. You shouldnít be allowed to own firearms if you donít meet certain criteria and maybe the background checks should be more inclusive of a persons history. Maybe there should be added criteria. What would that extra criteria be? Iím not sure. I donít have all the answers. Now, as far as the effectiveness of them, no they are not 100%. But maybe, just maybe, it helps to a certain degree. Itís the same as locking your front door. It only works on honest thieves. If someone wants to rob your house, a locked door isnít going to stop them.


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Old 08-24-2019, 07:56 AM   #21
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How about putting felons in possession of a firearm in prison for 50 years on their first offense
Fining institutions who are required to update the federal database for not doing so in a timely manner. So guy this week was caught walking around with a gun in Austin. Bought it legally then find out Harris county did not update what ever database they were supposed to which would have said this guy had a felony warrant from a year ago
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:57 AM   #22
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Iím not getting into a debate over back ground checks. All Iím saying is that Iím in favor of them. You shouldnít be allowed to own firearms if you donít meet certain criteria and maybe the background checks should be more inclusive of a persons history. Maybe there should be added criteria.
Wait. What???
When you purchase a firearm, you ALREADY go thru a background check. What we don't need, is the Feds giving us a colonoscopy every time we buy one. When you start adding on "more stuff", then you are on that slippery slope that is only going to go downhill!!
For the last 40 years. my guns have shot no one.
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Old 08-24-2019, 11:54 AM   #23
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If people understood that their really isnít a problem to begin with we wouldnít be having this conversation. Donít listen to the news. Their job is to scare you. Tragic and horrible as they may be, there isnít a mass shooting problem In this country.


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Old 08-24-2019, 12:03 PM   #24
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For the people that want ďmore background checksĒ, what is it you want them to do? We already have those. Crimes with guns bought legally via face to face or the ďgun show loopholeĒ donít statistically exist.


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Old 08-24-2019, 12:18 PM   #25
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Background checks didn't stop any of the recent shootings & then there were 2 or 3 where NICS didn't work because local LE & in one case the Air Force didn't submit the paperwork...it's only as good as the data the examiners have. I'm an FFL & making universal checks would put more $$$ in my pocket but at what expense?? I'm not willing to see anyone lose more liberties at the expense of bad people. Any and all new laws only affect the law abiding & adding checks is not going to stop anyone hellbent on committing a shooting. You cannot legislate immoral & deviant behavior & gets tiresome having to explain this is the problem & no new laws targeting restrictive gun measures deal with the mental & social issues that are the root cause. I would find it very creepy to see sons/daughters having to fill out paperwork for inheritance. If one were to inherit multiple pistols, all of those would be listed by make / model & SN to ATF & local chief LE. In border states, you could include certain long guns as well.

Trump is accurate when he states it's slippery. Try not to get sucked into the emotion aspect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Iím not getting into a debate over back ground checks. All Iím saying is that Iím in favor of them. You shouldnít be allowed to own firearms if you donít meet certain criteria and maybe the background checks should be more inclusive of a persons history. Maybe there should be added criteria. What would that extra criteria be? Iím not sure. I donít have all the answers. Now, as far as the effectiveness of them, no they are not 100%. But maybe, just maybe, it helps to a certain degree. Itís the same as locking your front door. It only works on honest thieves. If someone wants to rob your house, a locked door isnít going to stop them.


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Old 08-24-2019, 01:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Iím not getting into a debate over back ground checks. All Iím saying is that Iím in favor of them. You shouldnít be allowed to own firearms if you donít meet certain criteria and maybe the background checks should be more inclusive of a persons history. Maybe there should be added criteria. What would that extra criteria be? Iím not sure. I donít have all the answers. Now, as far as the effectiveness of them, no they are not 100%. But maybe, just maybe, it helps to a certain degree. Itís the same as locking your front door. It only works on honest thieves. If someone wants to rob your house, a locked door isnít going to stop them.


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I have no problems with background checks. Having said that, making MORE or stricter background checks will do nothing. I donít want crazy people or convicts having guns but more laws will not prevent that, no matter how strict they are, except for total gun confiscation. Then SOME crazies wonít have them but ALL the criminals still will. That just leaves the good guys with no guns and that is a recipe for total chaos and borderline anarchy.
No thanks.
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Old 08-24-2019, 02:23 PM   #27
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I have no problems with background checks. Having said that, making MORE or stricter background checks will do nothing. I donít want crazy people or convicts having guns but more laws will not prevent that, no matter how strict they are, except for total gun confiscation. Then SOME crazies wonít have them but ALL the criminals still will. That just leaves the good guys with no guns and that is a recipe for total chaos and borderline anarchy.

No thanks.


I will agree 100% with you. But I sold all my guns during the last recession to pay my light bill. I donít have any.... lol


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Old 08-24-2019, 03:59 PM   #28
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If people understood that their really isnít a problem to begin with we wouldnít be having this conversation. Donít listen to the news. Their job is to scare you. Tragic and horrible as they may be, there isnít a mass shooting problem In this country.


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I believe this to be the most correct statement so far
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:37 PM   #29
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63 people killed in mass shootings in 2019 and they raise a ruckus. Not to demean the people killed, Senseless deaths perpetrated by mad men!
3000 defenseless babies killed every day by abortion and the left wants more leeway to kill even more.
How perverted is this?
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:32 PM   #30
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63 people killed in mass shootings in 2019 and they raise a ruckus. Not to demean the people killed, Senseless deaths perpetrated by mad men!
3000 defenseless babies killed every day by abortion and the left wants more leeway to kill even more.
How perverted is this?
But, but ..... Women's healthcare......
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:04 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by locolobo View Post
63 people killed in mass shootings in 2019 and they raise a ruckus. Not to demean the people killed, Senseless deaths perpetrated by mad men!
3000 defenseless babies killed every day by abortion and the left wants more leeway to kill even more.
How perverted is this?
309 people have been killed in homicides in Chicago so far in 2019...
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:53 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
If people understood that their really isnít a problem to begin with we wouldnít be having this conversation. Donít listen to the news. Their job is to scare you. Tragic and horrible as they may be, there isnít a mass shooting problem In this country.


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And THE TRUTH, Shall set you frrreeeeee!!
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:17 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
If people understood that their really isnít a problem to begin with we wouldnít be having this conversation. Donít listen to the news. Their job is to scare you. Tragic and horrible as they may be, there isnít a mass shooting problem In this country.


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Who said anything about mass shootings? This was post about backgrounds checks. Care to contribute anything? Or are you saying we have zero gun violence problems to deal with and roll back all background check laws? I'm confused on your position.

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Old 08-25-2019, 11:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
If people understood that their really isnít a problem to begin with we wouldnít be having this conversation. Donít listen to the news. Their job is to scare you. Tragic and horrible as they may be, there isnít a mass shooting problem In this country.


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I understand where youíre coming from but by the same logic, we donít have a terrorist problem and shouldnít be sending troops out to fight terrorism. Iím not sure I agree.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:09 AM   #35
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Who said anything about mass shootings? This was post about backgrounds checks. Care to contribute anything? Or are you saying we have zero gun violence problems to deal with and roll back all background check laws? I'm confused on your position.

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Every news organization, in case you have been asleep or dead this whole conversation revolves around the background checks being called for just after the El Paso shooting and Dayton Ohio.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:57 AM   #36
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Who said anything about mass shootings? This was post about backgrounds checks. Care to contribute anything? Or are you saying we have zero gun violence problems to deal with and roll back all background check laws? I'm confused on your position.

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Follow the topic here okay. Why do you think background checks are being brought up by the democrats again? Wait for it........
Because of mass shootings in Texas and Ohio.
Over reacting to his post as if he isn't contributing anything is silly and technically his post didn't have the word mass shootings in it, although yours did.


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Old 08-25-2019, 12:19 PM   #37
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Per the thread title.....yep, all bets are off based on the adminstrations previous actions. Deeper checks are on the horizon as other nefarious actions.......all in the name of safety for our children!

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Old 08-25-2019, 12:53 PM   #38
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Per the thread title.....yep, all bets are off based on the adminstrations previous actions. Deeper checks are on the horizon as other nefarious actions.......all in the name of safety for our children!

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What previous actions are you referencing, bump stock?

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Old 08-25-2019, 01:28 PM   #39
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What previous actions are you referencing, bump stock?

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Yes, that would be the most obvious. But not forgetting the promises and meetings about following through on lifting trophy import bans and nominating a Interior Secretary that would carry the banner of our hunting heritage. I am definitely hoping for the best but not overly optimistic.

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Old 08-25-2019, 02:01 PM   #40
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Who said anything about mass shootings? This was post about backgrounds checks. Care to contribute anything? Or are you saying we have zero gun violence problems to deal with and roll back all background check laws? I'm confused on your position.

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The whole entire reason the conversation is being had in DC is because of mass shootings. The media and politicians are using them to push agendas.

My position is more of a question. What is there that could be fixed in the background check system that would solve or prevent anything?


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Old 08-25-2019, 02:04 PM   #41
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I understand where youíre coming from but by the same logic, we donít have a terrorist problem and shouldnít be sending troops out to fight terrorism. Iím not sure I agree.


Fair point. I will say Iím much more concerned about big brother than terrorist.


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Old 08-25-2019, 03:37 PM   #42
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The whole entire reason the conversation is being had in DC is because of mass shootings. The media and politicians are using them to push agendas.

My position is more of a question. What is there that could be fixed in the background check system that would solve or prevent anything?


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And I honestly get that point of view. What I fear (and despise) is the counterproductive "but" politics. "But abortion!" "But Democrats" "but the media!" (So I may be picking on you for a larger theme I see in these discussions). If we don't dictate the narrative and policy then they will. So if we can actually come up with common sense policy to reduce (not eliminate!) access to guns by criminals then couldn't we take reasonable steps to get there? Many have mentioned enforcing the laws we have where people and crimes have failed to make it into the database. I don't know what the specific fix it but let's pursue it. I also understand that we hold corporations and ffls to a different standard than private firearms sellers on background checks (call it a loophole or a different standard but differences do exist). I personally would like to avoid selling my gun to a felon if there was an easy way to prevent this. Not claiming I have an easy fix either. I love our constitutional right to arm ourselves and want to keep it.

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Old 08-25-2019, 05:53 PM   #43
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Worth a read & along the lines of what I've been saying...we do not have a gun, background, red flag problem. We have societal issues that need to be addressed, but I don't see how the nation is even remotely ready to accept it as the problem & even less likely to to start the discussion / dialog of losing our moral fiber regardless of any religion aspect one would accept or deny. Too many politicians simply use the tragedies as an opportunity to attack liberties & pursue the agenda of gun control.


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Old 08-25-2019, 06:11 PM   #44
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First steps would be to prosecute for the laws already on the books. First thing that comes to mind are felons and prohibited persons attempting to buy a firearm at a dealer, and failing the background check. That is not an accident. If you are a felon you know you cannot legally own a gun, they will attempt because there isn't any backlash for trying.
Several times in my life I have seen obvious ex cons with their girlfriend as "she" makes a purchase while he stands right there telling here what to buy. Straw purchases are a big problem.
Enforcing laws already on the books seems to me to be more effective than passing more laws that may or may not be enforced.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:05 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landrover View Post
Yes, that would be the most obvious. But not forgetting the promises and meetings about following through on lifting trophy import bans and nominating a Interior Secretary that would carry the banner of our hunting heritage. I am definitely hoping for the best but not overly optimistic.

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Old 08-25-2019, 08:14 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
The whole entire reason the conversation is being had in DC is because of mass shootings. The media and politicians are using them to push agendas.

My position is more of a question. What is there that could be fixed in the background check system that would solve or prevent anything?


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until it is legal for doctors to divulge patient information.... nothing.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:20 PM   #47
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Here is the problem with all of this in my opinion. Any gun law is illegal! The second amendment clearly states this. Now we have thousands of laws regarding all the things that go along with the shootings and murders that take place on a daily basis. So more laws will make this better, I think not. The left wants nothing more than to take control of the guns because then they have total control of the people. That is their goal believe or not. Evil in people is the root cause for the shootings and murders not the gun. Problem is no one will step up and confront the real problem because it is too easy to blame the gun rather than a person. Once you give an inch they will take a mile. Would be a shame to look back 30 years from now and say it all started with stiffing background checks.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:38 PM   #48
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One question? Should you be allowed to buy a vehicle if you have a drunk driving conviction?
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Old 08-27-2019, 12:08 AM   #49
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Buying vehicles is not a constitutional right like gun ownership is.
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:47 AM   #50
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None of the unconstitutional gun control that is being proposed would have stopped the tragedies that these sick twisted democrats are exploiting to push their agendas.

Shut down the ATF, repeal the NFA of 1934 and GCA of 1968 and the bump stock ban. Any gun control is unconstitutional. The second amendment is absolute and shall not be infringed upon.
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