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Old 10-15-2019, 08:02 AM   #1
waterdog
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more than 10 years for this one?
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:18 AM   #2
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That woman was murdered in her own home...
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:53 AM   #3
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apparently everytime an officer shoots someone its murder...no questions asked.

He will probably get life
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:57 AM   #4
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apparently everytime an officer shoots someone its murder...no questions asked.

He will probably get life


Yeah, it’s definitely frustrating to see. Though from looking into this one, there’s definitely something sketchy about it.


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Old 10-15-2019, 08:57 AM   #5
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apparently everytime an officer shoots someone its murder...no questions asked.

He will probably get life
I don't know what else you would call this one. It's bad.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:03 AM   #6
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apparently everytime an officer shoots someone its murder...no questions asked.

He will probably get life
Judging from his own body cam footage he should get life in prison if its unaltered.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:20 AM   #7
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I feel like the City of FTW acted appropriately and swiftly...justice will be served and maybe that can help show there's faith in our system....
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:44 AM   #8
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We may not know all the facts but it certainly looks indefensible at this point. What do you think the chances are he will claim accidental discharge? I've heard some speculate that he raised his weapon toward what he perceived as a threat, had his finger inside the trigger guard and it went off (?) Seems plausible I suppose - not that it will make any difference, especially since the chief made it clear how many times he didnt follow procedure.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:49 AM   #9
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We may not know all the facts but it certainly looks indefensible at this point. What do you think the chances are he will claim accidental discharge? I've heard some speculate that he raised his weapon toward what he perceived as a threat, had his finger inside the trigger guard and it went off (?) Seems plausible I suppose - not that it will make any difference, especially since the chief made it clear how many times he didnt follow procedure.
I will make no difference
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:51 AM   #10
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apparently everytime an officer shoots someone its murder...no questions asked.

He will probably get life
Well, maybe just when you shoot a person in their own house, when they are not doing anything illegal (I know it was not her house, but she was there with the owners consent).

Or do you go with the, "Woops, my bad, sorry i killed you" defense and we then hand out the "**** happens" acquittal.

Sorry people, actions have consequences. Shooting people for playing video games in a house they have a right to be in is BS, regardless of the shirt you are wearing.

All my statements assume the facts are fairly close to what is being reported, and there has not been some fast and loose editing going on
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jerp View Post
We may not know all the facts but it certainly looks indefensible at this point. What do you think the chances are he will claim accidental discharge? I've heard some speculate that he raised his weapon toward what he perceived as a threat, had his finger inside the trigger guard and it went off (?) Seems plausible I suppose - not that it will make any difference, especially since the chief made it clear how many times he didnt follow procedure.
I made the accident defense a couple of days ago on another forum.

If he can get a jury to believe it, it would probably reduce it to a Criminally Negligent Homicide with a two year maximum sentence.

What will probably trip him up is if his original report or statement does not say that. If he wrote or gave a statement that... I thought she was a threat so I fired a shot... he negates his future defense of it being an accident, in my opinion.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:09 AM   #12
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I have no clue what you guys are talking about
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:09 AM   #13
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I made the accident defense a couple of days ago on another forum.

If he can get a jury to believe it, it would probably reduce it to a Criminally Negligent Homicide with a two year maximum sentence.

What will probably trip him up is if his original report or statement does not say that. If he wrote or gave a statement that... I thought she was a threat so I fired a shot... he negates his future defense of it being an accident, in my opinion.
x2. Watching the body cam, I saw no threat. He shot as soon as his pistol was all the way up, which did look like an AD. He shot too soon & I do believe it was an AD but once he says/said he felt a threat, that goes out the window & it's murder. He was amped up & didn't control his actions appropriately.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:14 AM   #14
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I have no clue what you guys are talking about
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:15 AM   #15
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I have no clue what you guys are talking about
Cop shot and killed a lady through the window of a house she had a right to be in. Never announced he was popo, said, "let me see your hands" and almost instantaneously shot.

Least that is the way it's looking
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:11 AM   #16
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Why didn't he just ring the doorbell?
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:19 AM   #17
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Why didn't he just ring the doorbell?
It will be interesting to hear their explanation. Reportedly it was just a simple welfare check call - not a crime in progress like a burglary. I am not familiar with proper police protocol on a call like that but it seems odd to this civilian that they would handle it the way they did.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:26 AM   #18
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Why didn't he just ring the doorbell?
If they would've gone to the front door, knocked on the door & announced themselves, we wouldn't be talking about this. That was a huge mistake on a welfare check.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:56 AM   #19
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Why didn't he just ring the doorbell?
No need to ring the bell, the front door was reported open for 4 hours
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:09 PM   #20
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No need to ring the bell, the front door was reported open for 4 hours
So? Is it a crime to leave your door open for a certain amount of time? I realize it might not be wise in some neighborhoods, but what is wrong with leaving your door open?

All they had to do was go to the door and knock or ring the bell. Sneaking around in the back yard of my house in the dark with flashlights and such would be a good way to create a dangerous situation real fast.

I realize there are potential dangers to the cops, no matter how they approach a situation like that. But their chosen response to a nosey neighbor's call about a door simply being open seems really dumb. And that doesn't even take into account the instant trigger pull.

What a tragedy.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:10 PM   #21
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I wonder what his partner suggested or told him afterwards
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
So? Is it a crime to leave your door open for a certain amount of time? I realize it might not be wise in some neighborhoods, but what is wrong with leaving your door open?

All they had to do was go to the door and knock or ring the bell. Sneaking around in the back yard of my house in the dark with flashlights and such would be a good way to create a dangerous situation real fast.

I realize there are potential dangers to the cops, no matter how they approach a situation like that. But their chosen response to a nosey neighbor's call about a door simply being open seems really dumb. And that doesn't even take into account the instant trigger pull.

What a tragedy.
All i was saying was the door had been open for 4 hours. It was also open when they arrived so no need to ring a door bell when all you have to do is say....." Police is anyone in here? "
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:19 PM   #23
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All i was saying was the door had been open for 4 hours. It was also open when they arrived so no need to ring a door bell when all you have to do is say....." Police is anyone in here? "
Gotcha, and agreed. Should have been a very simple interaction.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:45 PM   #24
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Yeah, I'm waiting to see if theres any more details, but sure dont look good. Sounds like he really screwed up. Sad deal for sure.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:52 PM   #25
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apparently everytime an officer shoots someone its murder...no questions asked.

He will probably get life
Have you seen the video?
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:56 PM   #26
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Looks like murder from what I saw.

I don't understand why the media headline has to always be "Cop of XYZ race shoots unarmed person of ZYX race". Why can't it just be "cop kills unarmed person"
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:57 PM   #27
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Have you seen the video?
Yeah... he screwed up
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:04 PM   #28
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I think there’s a question about how the dispatcher relayed this call to the officers? The caller asked for a welfare check which should have been come up to the front door and knock. This obviously didn’t happen. Was it explained that it was a welfare call or something else?
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:09 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by duckmanep View Post
Looks like murder from what I saw.

I don't understand why the media headline has to always be "Cop of XYZ race shoots unarmed person of ZYX race". Why can't it just be "cop kills unarmed person"
Because they have a certain narrative they’re pushing ...
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:11 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by duckmanep View Post
Looks like murder from what I saw.

I don't understand why the media headline has to always be "Cop of XYZ race shoots unarmed person of ZYX race". Why can't it just be "cop kills unarmed person"
Because cops kill more unarmed white men every year than black people.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:15 PM   #31
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My heart truly goes out to the family in this mess. I suspect the child/nephew will be traumatized for life as will the family. Just unfathomable to fully conceive that this happened on a non 911 call for a welfare check. The sheriff is to be applauded as his actions/decisions were effective, efficient and not eternal in the making.
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:01 PM   #32
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Sad situation.

Where did our thread on Margarita Brooks go? Surely someone started one?

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/l...233438282.html
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by cgny27 View Post
I feel like the City of FTW acted appropriately and swiftly...justice will be served and maybe that can help show there's faith in our system....


While the body cam footage doesn’t look good for him, I think Mayor Price was way out of line saying some of the things she said in her statement given the ongoing investigation.


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Last edited by Mike D; 10-15-2019 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:17 PM   #34
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you couldnt pay me enough to be a cop...its a no win job...

He didnt go there to murder her...just stupid..

negligent homicide
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:22 PM   #35
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Now the nephew is saying she got a gun out of her purse & pointed it @ the window, after hearing noises outside. I really don't think this will make a difference, though. She was doing nothing illegal & the LEO never said he was LEO. I would've done almost the same thing she did (I'd of gotten a gun but I wouldn't have been seen by someone outside my home).
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Old 10-15-2019, 02:57 PM   #36
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It will be interesting to hear their explanation. Reportedly it was just a simple welfare check call - not a crime in progress like a burglary. I am not familiar with proper police protocol on a call like that but it seems odd to this civilian that they would handle it the way they did.
Not hearing the 911 call or the way it was dispatched...

It was a burglary in progress. Hearing the way the call was dispatched can definitely change my mind but from experience, that is what I see in their response... it was an in progress burglary. It is probably the same way that I would have perceived that call for service.

Actually listening to the call dispatched might clear up the speculation.

The officers have to respond to the information given, not what a citizen thinks he sees or what dispatcher titles the call.

The approach by the officers was not wrong. The response to the perceived threat was terribly wrong.

I am thinking of different calls that I have made over many years where my and other officers’ responses did not match the words given on the radio. On one call it was given by the dispatcher as a suspicious situation. In the afternoon a neighbor called about 3-4 men were seen going into the front door of a home with one or two of them carrying a package. Later one of the men came out on the porch and looked around and went back inside. The neighbor didn’t recognize the men but that was all of the information. For some reason the neighbor called the police. Daylight, nothing seen except some guys that weren’t recognized.

I wasn’t far away and started heading toward the call even though I wasn’t dispatched. A couple of other officers were sent. I don’t usually try to give opinions on the radio but in this case I told the responding officers not to drive to the house and don’t even get on that street. Go one street north and park there and meet me to walk in. One officer said that he was almost out on the call, basically disregarding me. The on duty lieutenant had no idea what I was doing but trusted my experience and he ordered them not to approach the house. We went to an alternate channel and asked what was happening. I said two words... home invasion.

At the time we had been having home invasions by Vietnamese. They would hold people hostage while robbing gambling parties or well to do families that had their own businesses like restaurants or shrimp boats. I met with the officers and we walked in cautiously and the neighbor’s “suspicious people” in broad daylight in a fairly quiet neighborhood was.... a home invasion with shots having already being fired in the home. The bad guys had actually been gone about a minute before we arrived, probably about the time the neighbor was making the original call to report something suspicious. No one in the house was hurt and the bad guys fired shots to get the homeowner’s attention. It worked...

But the point is, the neighbor had no clue, the dispatcher had no clue and even the less experienced officers responding had no clue. Had we gotten the call a minute or so earlier, the officers might have walked into an ambush which was my biggest fear or caused a hostage standoff.

Because the citizen calling doesn’t know certain crime clues or use police terminology, we can’t take chances when experience or the situation says otherwise.

These officers were (I think) sent to an open door at night. It was suspicious enough for the neighbor to call. Walking up the sidewalk to the front door might have caused an officer’s death or like my call, a hostage.

I don’t think the officers approaching cautiously was the problem. One officer’s response was.

In my opinion.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:00 PM   #37
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If they would've gone to the front door, knocked on the door & announced themselves, we wouldn't be talking about this. That was a huge mistake on a welfare check.
.... or we could be discussing another dead officer.

20/20 hindsight is awesome.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #38
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It's a bad situation regardless of the outcome and regardless of what transpired. Prayers to those involved.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #39
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I would not be a bit surprised if the former officer commits suicide. This is a full tragedy on all perspectives.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #40
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A Texas woman was shot dead by a Fort Worth police officer through the window of her home after she heard noises outside late at night and picked up her handgun, the officer's arrest warrant showed on Tuesday.

Atatiana Jefferson, 28, was playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew around 2:30 am on Saturday when she heard noises in her backyard, according to the warrant for former Fort Worth Police Officer Dean Aaron's arrest for alleged murder.

The noises were Dean and his partner creeping around the back of her home after they were called to investigate why her front door was open.

Dean resigned on Monday before he was fired for breaching a string of police policies in shooting Jefferson dead with a single shot, according to Fort Worth Police Chief Ed Kraus.

Jefferson's death brought outraged calls for an investigation into Fort Worth Police, whose officers are accused by her family's lawyer, Lee Merritt, of fatally shooting seven people in under six months.

"She heard noises coming from outside, and she took her handgun from her purse," Jefferson's nephew told police, according to the warrant. His name was redacted from the warrant.

"Jefferson raised her handgun, pointed it toward the window, then Jefferson was shot and fell to the ground," the warrant said.

Dean's partner, identified as Officer Darch, said she could see Jefferson when Dean shot her.

"She could only see Jefferson's face through the window when Officer Dean discharged his weapon," the warrant said.

The officers did not knock on the front door of the home or announce they were police before Dean fired his weapon, according to Kraus.

"It makes sense she would have a gun if she felt threatened or if there was someone in the backyard," Kraus said, ending a press conference after eight minutes as he grew emotional talking about the impact of the killing on police morale.

Fort Worth has called in an independent panel of experts to evaluate the police department after the shooting.

Jefferson was killed the same month another former Texas police officer, Amber Guyger, was convicted of murdering Botham Jean, a black man, as he sat in his home eating ice cream.

Jefferson's family has called for the swift prosecution of Dean, who was arrested on Monday and posted bond overnight.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:34 PM   #41
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.... or we could be discussing another dead officer.

20/20 hindsight is awesome.
No, we wouldn't have. Your speculation in different scenarios is just that, speculation and different scenarios.

If he would have walked up to the front door, while using a little caution we would have had no story.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:42 PM   #42
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The whole deal is sad. From what I heard the chief say, the dispatch was sent out as an open structure not a welfare check. So the officer response is different. Don’t think it’ll matter for the officer though. I don’t know how they’d charge him with murder, doesn’t that require intent? I can see manslaughter.


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Old 10-15-2019, 03:54 PM   #43
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If it was dispatched as a robbery in progress or something similar, I can definitely understand the tactics of their response. If it was dispatched as a non-emergency check on an open door, then it seems that the officers' response didn't make sense. If she pointed a gun at someone prowling around in her back yard, I can understand that. That would definitely make it harder for the officer to keep his cool too.

Hindsight is always 20/20 for sure. Regardless of all the details, it truly sucks for everyone involved, especially the lady that lost her life. Sucks bad for the officer as well. Multiple lives ruined in that spit second. Just sad.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:35 PM   #44
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Sad sad sad. It seems like this could have been prevented. I would really like to hear what other officers believe proper procedure would be when responding to an "open structure". the news that her nephew said she pulled a gun out of her purse seems very relevant but not sure it really changes anything.

remember when cops didn't wear body cams?

And to over simplify this and the Guyger case - could both have been prevented if ONLY two people had fully closed their front door(s)!!??
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:40 PM   #45
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Wow...had not read she had a gun. What a tragedy.

I cannot imagine the grief for the family or the officer.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:44 PM   #46
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Sad sad sad. It seems like this could have been prevented. I would really like to hear what other officers believe proper procedure would be when responding to an "open structure". the news that her nephew said she pulled a gun out of her purse seems very relevant but not sure it really changes anything.

remember when cops didn't wear body cams?

And to over simplify this and the Guyger case - could both have been prevented if ONLY two people had fully closed their front door(s)!!??
So people should always have to have their front doors closed, and should never carry guns in their house, is that what you're saying? I know some will think I'm out of step on this forum, but I think police should have to clearly identify a threat before firing, crazy right
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:45 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Death from Above View Post
Wow...had not read she had a gun. What a tragedy.

I cannot imagine the grief for the family or the officer.
Her having a gun makes no difference, having a gun in your own residence is not a crime.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:51 PM   #48
flywise
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Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
So people should always have to have their front doors closed, and should never carry guns in their house, is that what you're saying? I know some will think I'm out of step on this forum, but I think police should have to clearly identify a threat before firing, crazy right
Well, if this door had not been open for 4 hours 10 pm to 2 am there never would have been a call to the police. Surly you dont think its normal for a person in 2019 to leave their door open all night?

Yes the officer screwed up,( not identifying himself) Yes there was a gun mentioned in the very first report i heard the morning of this deal and it is extremely tragic. I absolutely believe mistakes were made and that consequences need to be paid but i also dont believe the police should be judged for a micro second decision before they have an opportunity to defend their actions
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:02 PM   #49
RiverRat1
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Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
Well, maybe just when you shoot a person in their own house, when they are not doing anything illegal (I know it was not her house, but she was there with the owners consent).

Or do you go with the, "Woops, my bad, sorry i killed you" defense and we then hand out the "**** happens" acquittal.

Sorry people, actions have consequences. Shooting people for playing video games in a house they have a right to be in is BS, regardless of the shirt you are wearing.

All my statements assume the facts are fairly close to what is being reported, and there has not been some fast and loose editing going on
Funny how when a LEO shoots someone liberals want to look at everything as though they were conservative. But when a POS criminal shoots someone they only use liberal logic...like the gun did it..he was raised bad so not his fault and on and on and on...

Sure no one including LEO should murder anyone. But the rush to find and prosecute all these "bad" cops is stupid.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:07 PM   #50
TeamAmerica
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Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
So people should always have to have their front doors closed, and should never carry guns in their house, is that what you're saying? I know some will think I'm out of step on this forum, but I think police should have to clearly identify a threat before firing, crazy right
From my post "And to over simplify this and the Guyger case". i don't think this is worthy of a big debate. legal or common sense - who cares. but yes, if my door is open after dark (or at 2:30 in the morning), i'm either ignorant of this fact or lack common sense. i live in dallas and my alarm is armed as soon as it get's dark and the kids are in bed for the night - period.
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