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Old 03-20-2017, 12:15 PM   #1
IkemanTX
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Default Anyone on a Ketogenic Diet?

The wife and I are starting today, and I was checking to see if anyone else was on it, maybe get some good recipes or pointers.

For those of you that don't know what a ketogenic diet is,
It is designed to break your body's use of glucose and suppress insulin production. This causes your body to live off of ketones instead of glucose, and ketones are pulled directly from fat.
Supposed to end up with longer lasting energy, body fat reduction, and fewer cravings throughout the day.

The diet is typically structured about
70% fat
25% protein
5% carbs

Supposedly the first few weeks are a little rough to get through as your body weans itself off of living from blood sugar, but after that it is supposed to be pretty easy as diets go.

I'm 172.8 today, and goal is 155. Not doing it quickly, just ending up there at some point.


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Old 03-20-2017, 12:25 PM   #2
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Search "Keto" on YouTube and you will find some really good stuff. You can make bread from protein powder and homemade bullet proof coffee is the best.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:39 PM   #3
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I lost 25 lbs last year on keto and I've been back on the last 5 wks and I'm down 10 lbs since then. I've been maintaining but now it's time to start loosing again. You still need to eat at a defecate. The initial entry can be rough until you become fat adapted. Grind through it, get plenty of salt, yes salting your food is ok. The pink salt is what I use. Drink plenty of water. Chicken broth can helps with this. Bone broth also helps with the Keto Flu as they call it. I also take fiber, potassium, magnesium and Vitamin D3 supplements. My body feels much better on keto than a traditional low fat diet. Also, keep a log of what you eat and track your macros. Don't forget healthy fats as well. If you have any questions or need some help shoot me a pm.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:41 PM   #4
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Tons of recipes online. It's the new rage so a ton of info available. I like that I can have avocados and bacon
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:57 PM   #5
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Yep, google and youtube will be the easiest. Keto has always been the most effective diet for myself and clients. I shift between straight keto, carb cycling, low carb, and macros.

The first few weeks are the toughest. Especially if you usually intake a lot of carbs.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
Bone broth also helps with the Keto Flu as they call it.
Also, keep a log of what you eat and track your macros. Don't forget healthy fats as well.
If you have any questions or need some help shoot me a pm.

Thanks for the heads up on the bone broth, I hadn't heard of that remedy.

I'm using an app called "My Fitness Pal" to track calories and macros, and it logs all the previous days like a diary. I can even just scan the barcode and add it to my day, build recipes and portion them out, adjust macro goals etc... I think that will help tremendously.

And I will definitely shoot you a PM if I have questions or issues, thanks.



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Old 03-20-2017, 01:03 PM   #7
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Tons of recipes online. It's the new rage so a ton of info available. I like that I can have avocados and bacon


I know, breakfast this morning was 3 eggs, 28g of cheese and 4 thick slices of bacon.

Being able to eat cheese, whipped cream (minus sugar), ranch, butter, bacon, and sausage every day doesn't feel like I'm on a diet.


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Old 03-20-2017, 01:05 PM   #8
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Sometimes my fitness pal can be misleading on caloric value of food because people can make adjustments as needed. It's good for calorie counting. I also use fat secret and calorie king to help with looking up a foods caloric value. Keto is fun and easy once you get the hang of it. Eating out is also pretty easy to do as well. You'll find yourself at times having to make yourself eat to meet your daily macros because you will feel full and not hungry throughout the day. Sometimes, I will not eat for 3-4 hrs after I wake because I'm just not hungry.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
I know, breakfast this morning was 3 eggs, 28g of cheese and 4 thick slices of bacon.

Being able to eat cheese, whipped cream (minus sugar), ranch, butter, bacon, and sausage every day doesn't feel like I'm on a diet.


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Salad dressing can add up real quick on the carbs so, measure it out and be careful. I find that blue cheese has less carbs than ranch. Yeah, it's rough with bacon, eggs, cheese, sausage, salami, pepperoni and steak is on your eating plan.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:10 PM   #10
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You'll know your swapping over when you get the "keto flu" just tough it out and try and get plently of sleep that day. I just went from 188 to 164 in about 2.5 months with working out every day and eating every 2-3 hours.

Stay with it, it sucks at 1st with the keto flu being the worst part but after that it's all good, plus who doesn't like a diet that includes BACON
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
Sometimes, I will not eat for 3-4 hrs after I wake because I'm just not hungry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
Salad dressing can add up real quick on the carbs so, measure it out and be careful.


Not eating for 3-4 hours after waking has been my natural cycle for about half my life. I never have been able to eat early.

And I typically do dressings and condiments are done pretty sparingly. About the heaviest condiment I use is mustard... everything else is just enough to taste. 2 or 3 net grams of carbs total is about what my preferred salad is with ranch.


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Old 03-20-2017, 01:15 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
I lost 25 lbs last year on keto and I've been back on the last 5 wks and I'm down 10 lbs since then. I've been maintaining but now it's time to start loosing again. You still need to eat at a defecate. The initial entry can be rough until you become fat adapted. Grind through it, get plenty of salt, yes salting your food is ok. The pink salt is what I use. Drink plenty of water. Chicken broth can helps with this. Bone broth also helps with the Keto Flu as they call it. I also take fiber, potassium, magnesium and Vitamin D3 supplements. My body feels much better on keto than a traditional low fat diet. Also, keep a log of what you eat and track your macros. Don't forget healthy fats as well. If you have any questions or need some help shoot me a pm.
This is one of the best misspellings I've seen on here, I tried really hard to figure out what you meant and realized you misspelled deficit, then laughed out loud.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #13
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This is one of the best misspellings I've seen on here, I tried really hard to figure out what you meant and realized you misspelled deficit, then laughed out loud.
Fits in pretty good with the topic though!
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
Not eating for 3-4 hours after waking has been my natural cycle for about half my life. I never have been able to eat early.

And I typically do dressings and condiments are done pretty sparingly. About the heaviest condiment I use is mustard... everything else is just enough to taste. 2 or 3 net grams of carbs total is about what my preferred salad is with ranch.


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Sounds like you have a good handle on it. A tip I'm finding out is not not exclude lean meats like chicken and turkey. That just means you can eat more volume on your fats to help fill you up if you're feeling really hungry.

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This is one of the best misspellings I've seen on here, I tried really hard to figure out what you meant and realized you misspelled deficit, then laughed out loud.
Well that didn't come out like I planned it.

Please preworkout kick in. 1st day off when working on nights can be rough.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:24 PM   #15
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Diets wont last...they are temporary
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:25 PM   #16
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I got a good laugh from that too!
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:28 PM   #17
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A good way to get diabetes from what I hear too.

I have lost 27 lbs in 11 weeks on my diet of steak, potatoes, cereal, bread, fruit, etc.

It is called eating less, moderate exercise, and... nope thats it.

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Old 03-20-2017, 01:28 PM   #18
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Me and my wife started 3 weeks ago. I'm down 14lbs and I will say I've done a lazy keto. I had a few French fries and a couple of beers this weekend and it hadn't affected me much. Guess I'm more low carb but trying to stay fully keto. It's the easiest diet I've ever done


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Old 03-20-2017, 01:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
A good way to get diabetes from what I hear too.

I have lost 27 lbs in 11 weeks on my diet of steak, potatoes, cereal, bread, fruit, etc.

It is called eating less, moderate exercise, and... nope thats it.

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Their are also reports of Type 2 diabetics requiring less or no meds for DM, while on keto.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
A good way to get diabetes from what I hear too.

I have lost 27 lbs in 11 weeks on my diet of steak, potatoes, cereal, bread, fruit, etc.

It is called eating less, moderate exercise, and... nope thats it.

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How when glucose and insulin levels are maintained constantly. It has the opposite affect and actually helps with diabetes


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Old 03-20-2017, 01:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
Their are also reports of Type 2 diabetics requiring less or no meds for DM, while on keto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpr1979 View Post
How when glucose and insulin levels are maintained constantly. It has the opposite affect and actually helps with diabetes


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Always, always, always read the references and fine print.

Losing weight helps with Type 2. So as long as you are losing weight, almost no matter how you are doing it, it will help.

The diet pretty much shuts down that function of glues/insulin... but that isn't necessarily a good thing. When you rebound, it will be pretty harsh. So while on the fad diet, to lose weight and you return, you will find yourself in trouble. You gotta look at long term, not just the short term "my pants fit!"

I have yo-yoed, but in all cases it was not because of what I ate, but how much I ate. I'll always be a fat guy trapped in a skinny man's body.

I have met more people who have had lots of short term weight loss gains and quick bounces on those kinds of diets than anybody else. Well, except the no-fat folks.

It is just my opinion, and not really up for arguing it, is that you really need to figure out where it is you want to be and how it is you want to eat... long term. If you want to be like artic folks and eat a high fat/meat diet the rest of your life... go for it! but if you want to eat pizza, fried food, steak, bread, fruits, etc long term, then crash diets like this will not work. You have to learn how to eat in moderation. Period. And you need to adopt an active lifestyle that will support the amount of food you want to eat.

Truth is carbs get you moving, and moving leads to exercise... and exercise combined with protein will keep your muscular, which lets you eat even more.

Any diet site and plan that is advocating their method is only going to point out the results that help them. Yeah it is short term great for Type 2 Diabetes, but long term, I think there is plenty of evidence that taking an unbalanced approach will hurt you long term.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:01 PM   #22
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Can't believe "bulletproof coffee" wasn't brought up here. Cup of that in the morning keeps me full until lunch, just know ahead of time-it's not as bad as it first sounds-adjust to your taste preference- the cream off of canned coconut milk helps the adjustment.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
A good way to get diabetes from what I hear too.

I have lost 27 lbs in 11 weeks on my diet of steak, potatoes, cereal, bread, fruit, etc.

It is called eating less, moderate exercise, and... nope thats it.

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Best advice on this thread period. I di my weight loss the same way.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:56 PM   #24
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Can't believe "bulletproof coffee" wasn't brought up here. Cup of that in the morning keeps me full until lunch, just know ahead of time-it's not as bad as it first sounds-adjust to your taste preference- the cream off of canned coconut milk helps the adjustment.
It was...in the second comment

I hate the misconception that has been attached to the word diet these days. There are too many "diets" out there that have ruined what "diet" really means. As Swamp stated, you need to make a long term (i.e. Lifetime) dietary plan and stick with it. Bouncing up and down weight wise, jumping from one "diet" to the next, gorging one month, starving the next...it ain't good for you. I weighed 180 when I was 20. Got up to 300 when I was 30. Now I stay around 240-245. I would prefer to be around the 220-225 area, but I find that with moderate intake, decent amount of exercise, and a fairly consistent dietary plan, 240-245 is where it's at for me. I can't handle the joint pain from sports in my youth that comes with intense exercise. So it is what it is
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampRabbit View Post
A good way to get diabetes from what I hear too.

I have lost 27 lbs in 11 weeks on my diet of steak, potatoes, cereal, bread, fruit, etc.

It is called eating less, moderate exercise, and... nope thats it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
Their are also reports of Type 2 diabetics requiring less or no meds for DM, while on keto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpr1979 View Post
How when glucose and insulin levels are maintained constantly. It has the opposite affect and actually helps with diabetes


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If you understand diabetes you will understand what Swamp is saying. Ketosis is never good for your body! Well balanced meals and smaller but more meals are the best for you body and that includes carbs. Another thing to try and do is cut out bad carbs ans substitute with good carbs.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Heathbar_tx View Post
If you understand diabetes you will understand what Swamp is saying. Ketosis is never good for your body! Well balanced meals and smaller but more meals are the best for you body and that includes carbs. Another thing to try and do is cut out bad carbs ans substitute with good carbs.

I do understand what he is saying and I understand the effects of ketones on the body for both diabetes and nondiabetics. My body feels better and works better on this eating plan. That doesn't mean I will not have carbs or some good quality adult beverages but not in the volume or frequency that I once did. My reflux is gone, blood pressure is down, weight is down, energy is stable, no crashes and no more over all GI issues. And I do keep my blood work monitored.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:27 PM   #27
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I normally stay out of these discussions, but there is a HUGE piece of misinformation that is going to drive me nuts.

Cells burn glucose. Period. That is all they burn. Cellular metabolism burns glucose.

Where that glucose comes from, and how cells obtain it varies. But you cannot change the simple fact, that cells burn glucose.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:30 PM   #28
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Ketosis is never good for your body!

Ketoacidosis is never good for your body...
Ketosis is not ketoacidosis. It can be maintained in a healthy way, and does have documented benefits. Like any specialized diet, your own personal health needs to be evaluated and monitored.

My portion control, and caloric intake have been reduced into "deficit" levels for a while based on my active lifestyle. Although I am at an "acceptable" point, i haven't reached my goal. I have dealt with a lack of energy, headaches, hunger, and "weak trembles" off and on if meals aren't perfectly timed. My job doesn't allow perfectly timed eating habits, which is the crutch of a glucose based diet, but where ketogenic diets excel.

Any diet I decide to stick to needs to be something that will be permanent. Your "healthier" recommendation is something I have decided I don't want to deal with permanently. If it is between reducing my health and having to deal with all that... I'll just let my health decline some.

Instead, I decided to try another approach.




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Old 03-20-2017, 03:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by twobittxn View Post
I normally stay out of these discussions, but there is a HUGE piece of misinformation that is going to drive me nuts.

Cells burn glucose. Period. That is all they burn. Cellular metabolism burns glucose.

Where that glucose comes from, and how cells obtain it varies. But you cannot change the simple fact, that cells burn glucose.
Gotta love your glycogen stores.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:33 PM   #30
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Can someone give some insight on the Keto Flu?
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:33 PM   #31
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Sounds like "Sugar Busters" diet from NOLA in the 90's. Cut out carbs that turn to sugars and cut out all the sugars...........worked like a charm for me. Now when I need to cut back I just take carbs and sugar out of my food intake and I start to loose weight again.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:33 PM   #32
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What ADA and AMA recommends is being proven wrong in study after study, but more than that are the people like myself who stopped eating the way every health care professional says we should and removed the carbs, sugars, and artificial food resembling substances to lose over 40 lbs., not need medicines to stop the pain from rheumatoid arthritis and just feel good again. Not going to tell anyone that one is better than the other for them, but I know what is better for me.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:34 PM   #33
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Can someone give some insight on the Keto Flu?


The time period when your body is switching from glucose reliance to ketone reliance


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Old 03-20-2017, 03:35 PM   #34
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Ketosis is never good for your body!
Not sure where you got this from, but please share. I've taken my share of science and Patho related classes have seen no proof that being in ketosis is bad for you. Keto acidosis is no good, but that's taking it to the extreme.

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Old 03-20-2017, 03:42 PM   #35
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Diets themselves usually don't work long term. Adjust your eating habits and exercise so you burn more calories than you take in. You will lose weight. The math is simple.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:58 PM   #36
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Diets themselves usually don't work long term. Adjust your eating habits and exercise so you burn more calories than you take in. You will lose weight. The math is simple.
Yep and the diet/eating plan someone can stick to is the best. If they can do the traditional low fat then, good for them. Same with keto. It's as simple as that.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:18 PM   #37
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Can someone give some insight on the Keto Flu?
Based on my readings and personal experience, it's during the transition when people are underestimating the electrolytes they need. If you ensure you get plenty of magnesium, potassium and sodium, and drink plenty of water, you'll be good.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:20 PM   #38
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Diets themselves usually don't work long term. Adjust your eating habits and exercise so you burn more calories than you take in. You will lose weight. The math is simple.


Someone skipped the reason I'm no longer simply "adjusting my eating habits and exercising so I burn more calories than I take in" anymore. That's what I was already doing.

Your diet is simply what you eat. How does a diet not work long term? Is this from assuming they will be abandoned once the goal is reached? If the change is permanent, I don't really see how the diet would stop working.


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Old 03-20-2017, 04:22 PM   #39
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I went on the keto diet Feb 2016 and have lost 100lbs since then. I am definitely healthier than I was and that is probably mostly due to the weight loss. The way keto helped me was I was able to stick to it and control my portions, which has always been troublesome for me.

Currently I am still on it, and probably will be for a bit longer as I strive for my goal self. Will I stay on it long term? Maybe, maybe not....I REALLY miss beer.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:34 PM   #40
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I went on the keto diet Feb 2016 and have lost 100lbs since then. I am definitely healthier than I was and that is probably mostly due to the weight loss. The way keto helped me was I was able to stick to it and control my portions, which has always been troublesome for me.

Currently I am still on it, and probably will be for a bit longer as I strive for my goal self. Will I stay on it long term? Maybe, maybe not....I REALLY miss beer.

That's awesome! Keep it up
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:41 PM   #41
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I've been doing Keto since the New Year and dropped about 20lbs. You can use the MyFitnessPal and track your macros by percentage to see if your hitting your fat goals.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:46 PM   #42
SwampRabbit
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I'm 172.8 today, and goal is 155. Not doing it quickly, just ending up there at some point.
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Someone skipped the reason I'm no longer simply "adjusting my eating habits and exercising so I burn more calories than I take in" anymore. That's what I was already doing.

Your diet is simply what you eat. How does a diet not work long term? Is this from assuming they will be abandoned once the goal is reached? If the change is permanent, I don't really see how the diet would stop working.


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Why do you feel you need to go from 172 down to 155? What is driving you to do that? Honestly, that is not a ton of weight to lose; and I wouldn't be in a hurry to get there unless you got a boxing or wrestling match coming up.

The reason I ask is because I have been "fit" at many different weights in my lifetime. As an endurance athlete racing road bikes, I have been 160lbs with skinny freaking arms, and thunder thighs with 3% body fat and able to race 100+ miles at 20+ mph pace. I couldn't do a pull-up, but I could sprint on a bike at 30mph+ going up hill. Getting down to my clinical ideal weight for my height of 155lbs would be stupid. I also have been 175lbs and able to do P90X workouts without much trouble; I wasn't as snappy riding in the hills, but I wasn't racing either. I had a nice upper body, could do pull-ups, etc. I considered 175lbs to be my ideal weight for general fitness and strength - a far cry from the 155 on paper that my height should be at.

Normally, what I've seen from my buddies, is if they are not hitting their ideal weights and are heavy is because they are "skinny fat." Meaning they are thin, but just don't have the metabolism to support what they want to do. They lost weight, but are weaker. A lot of them lost weight on these paleo, or non-fat, or atkins style diets too.

I am not saying you are there, but I am curious where the 155 number comes from? I know I'll never hit my ideal BMI-crap-weight of 155. I will target to get down to 175 if I am strong.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:57 PM   #43
icetrauma
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Why do you feel you need to go from 172 down to 155? What is driving you to do that? Honestly, that is not a ton of weight to lose; and I wouldn't be in a hurry to get there unless you got a boxing or wrestling match coming up.

The reason I ask is because I have been "fit" at many different weights in my lifetime. As an endurance athlete racing road bikes, I have been 160lbs with skinny freaking arms, and thunder thighs with 3% body fat and able to race 100+ miles at 20+ mph pace. I couldn't do a pull-up, but I could sprint on a bike at 30mph+ going up hill. Getting down to my clinical ideal weight for my height of 155lbs would be stupid. I also have been 175lbs and able to do P90X workouts without much trouble; I wasn't as snappy riding in the hills, but I wasn't racing either. I had a nice upper body, could do pull-ups, etc. I considered 175lbs to be my ideal weight for general fitness and strength - a far cry from the 155 on paper that my height should be at.

Normally, what I've seen from my buddies, is if they are not hitting their ideal weights and are heavy is because they are "skinny fat." Meaning they are thin, but just don't have the metabolism to support what they want to do. They lost weight, but are weaker. A lot of them lost weight on these paleo, or non-fat, or atkins style diets too.

I am not saying you are there, but I am curious where the 155 number comes from? I know I'll never hit my ideal BMI-crap-weight of 155. I will target to get down to 175 if I am strong.

My strength has dropped slightly on some lifts but continue to increase on others while on keto. I'm not worried about my strength now because a caloric deficit is not an ideal intake for strength gains.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:08 PM   #44
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My strength has dropped slightly on some lifts but continue to increase on others while on keto. I'm not worried about my strength now because a caloric deficit is not an ideal intake for strength gains.
Carbs are kinda important in muscle recovery if you want to see strength/endurance gains while running a deficit.

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Old 03-20-2017, 05:12 PM   #45
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Can someone give some insight on the Keto Flu?
Google Herxheimer Reaction, that'll explain better than this bunch of rednecks can.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:12 PM   #46
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:13 PM   #47
icetrauma
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Carbs are kinda important in muscle recovery if you want to see strength/endurance gains while running a deficit.

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I agree but that is not my focus at this time. I will agree my endurance is not what it was but I'm ok with that. I actually ran 4.6 miles, on a treadmill, using the ladder method of run 1 min, walk 1 min, run 2, walk 2, run 3, walk 3 then back down the ladder. I was actually surprised I completed it. I'm 6'4 and 275. That's the most I've ran since college and that was 23 yrs ago.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:19 PM   #48
IkemanTX
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Why do you feel you need to go from 172 down to 155? What is driving you to do that? Honestly, that is not a ton of weight to lose; and I wouldn't be in a hurry to get there unless you got a boxing or wrestling match coming up.



The reason I ask is because I have been "fit" at many different weights in my lifetime. As an endurance athlete racing road bikes, I have been 160lbs with skinny freaking arms, and thunder thighs with 3% body fat and able to race 100+ miles at 20+ mph pace. I couldn't do a pull-up, but I could sprint on a bike at 30mph+ going up hill. Getting down to my clinical ideal weight for my height of 155lbs would be stupid. I also have been 175lbs and able to do P90X workouts without much trouble; I wasn't as snappy riding in the hills, but I wasn't racing either. I had a nice upper body, could do pull-ups, etc. I considered 175lbs to be my ideal weight for general fitness and strength - a far cry from the 155 on paper that my height should be at.



Normally, what I've seen from my buddies, is if they are not hitting their ideal weights and are heavy is because they are "skinny fat." Meaning they are thin, but just don't have the metabolism to support what they want to do. They lost weight, but are weaker. A lot of them lost weight on these paleo, or non-fat, or atkins style diets too.



I am not saying you are there, but I am curious where the 155 number comes from? I know I'll never hit my ideal BMI-crap-weight of 155. I will target to get down to 175 if I am strong.


I used to do P90X and I sure don't miss it haha. I am not concerned with bulking up muscle mass anymore, or crazy cardio levels either. My hobbies are hiking, kayaking, bowhunting, gardening, and small projects around the house. The physical condition I am in allows me to comfortably do all of that. 155lbs gets my body, with my current muscle mass, to the leanness point I want to be. I'm a pretty short guy (just shy of 5'7") so it's not as light as it sounds.

Also, I have struggled with glucose crashes throughout my life due to an irregular eating schedule. I can't change the eating schedule due to my work schedule. A ketogenic diet will help stabilize my energy levels in those times I have to push my eating farther than I should.


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Old 03-20-2017, 05:22 PM   #49
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Another thing, I can follow a keto diet without a problem. I don't crave carbs unless I also lose the fats. A Keto diet is all the items I have craved in every previous diet, so I know I can stick to it permanently. It is "my food" as my wife says.


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Old 03-20-2017, 06:52 PM   #50
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Sounds like something I need to check in to . I have gained about 25 lbs in the last 3 years . I need to lose that plus another 20 . What's the best place to read about it at ?


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