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Old 03-14-2017, 06:12 PM   #151
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I know where you're going and You will not convince me that some people should not have the right to an abortion, sorry.


I'm not trying to trick you. Im merely trying to show you how many libertarians come to a pro life position.


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Old 03-14-2017, 06:19 PM   #152
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Xbow, you should find this interesting. Big L vs little l Libertarians.


https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-...rtarian-party/

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Old 03-14-2017, 06:26 PM   #153
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I voted Republican. No way was I voting fir Gary Johnson. Looks like large majority of Libertarians vote Republican.

https://www.cato.org/publications/co...bertarian-vote

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In my opinion those people that are voting for Republicans are not really,truly libertarian


Some people didn't even know they were upholding the libertarian beliefs. Some people don't even know there's a Libertarian party. The Republicans and Democrats have a stranglehold on that in this country.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:27 PM   #154
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I'm not trying to trick you. Im merely trying to show you how many libertarians come to a pro life position.


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That is not what I consider libertarian
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:32 PM   #155
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I asked you if businesses should be allowed to reject blacks and Muslims? Not whether they stay in business.

Should a cake maker be able to deny business to two blacks? Or Muslims?
Yes, absolutely 110%, a business should be allowed to refuse service to a black, a muslim, a white, an asian, whatever they want. It's THEIR business!!!!! They won't stay in business long but they should have that right.
You say "government, stay out of people's lives!" Unless you agree with the government interfering in their life about that particular subject (in this case, a business owners right to run his business how he wants). Can't believe I got sucked into a liberal conversation again.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:34 PM   #156
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That is not what I consider libertarian
Because, in reality, you're a liberal that has a couple right leaning views. You're not a libertarian.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:49 PM   #157
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Yes, absolutely 110%, a business should be allowed to refuse service to a black, a muslim, a white, an asian, whatever they want. It's THEIR business!!!!! They won't stay in business long but they should have that right.
You say "government, stay out of people's lives!" Unless you agree with the government interfering in their life about that particular subject (in this case, a business owners right to run his business how he wants). Can't believe I got sucked into a liberal conversation again.


ditto
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:57 PM   #158
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Because, in reality, you're a liberal that has a couple right leaning views. You're not a libertarian.


Wrong

But I am tired of conservative trying to dictate their morals to the whole world
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:53 PM   #159
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Wrong

But I am tired of conservative trying to dictate their morals to the whole world
While you dictate your morals to business owners?
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:07 PM   #160
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While you dictate your morals to business owners?


I say that only so our country does not become segregated. I believe in personal choices, until it starts hurting society.

We are already divided culturally. A lot of that division is between Rural and urban America. There is no doubt in my mind if we allow businesses to discriminate that we will have two worlds that eventually collide in violence.

We've been there done that, we don't need to do that again
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:59 PM   #161
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Years ago I could've gone along with businesses making their own decisions. But with the bigotry and division I see in our culture of these days, I'm not sure the American public is trustworthy enough to put bigoted or racist businesses out of business.

And that would lead to segregation not the United States.

So I draw the line when conservatives want to implement policies that could be discriminating to a lot of the population
Are conservatives the only ones with a propensity for implementing policies that could be discriminatory?
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:38 PM   #162
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Are conservatives the only ones with a propensity for implementing policies that could be discriminatory?
This ranks right up there as one of the dumbest things ever written on TBH.

Name a few please
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:41 PM   #163
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This ranks right up there as one of the dumbest things ever written on TBH.

Name a few please
It was a question to Xbow. Don't think you read it right.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:42 PM   #164
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It was a question to Xbow. Don't think you read it right.
My bad

I'll answer for him in my best xbow.....absolutly
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:00 AM   #165
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My bad

I'll answer for him in my best xbow.....absolutly


You spelled absolutely wrong
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:58 AM   #166
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I say that only so our country does not become segregated. I believe in personal choices, until it starts hurting society.

We are already divided culturally. A lot of that division is between Rural and urban America. There is no doubt in my mind if we allow businesses to discriminate that we will have two worlds that eventually collide in violence.

We've been there done that, we don't need to do that again


Please name one piece of legislation that the left has introduced in the last 20 years that is meant to build up the family and in turn build up society! They haven't. Their agenda has DESTROYED the family unit and life.

And you are correct that the issue is widely urban vs rural, but that's because generally liberals like to congregate and rely on others for handouts and self justification while conservatives tend to mind their own business and rely on themselves to work for what they have.

If we do have civil war, it will be between conservatives and liberals ( alt left vs alt right), but I have a hunch that Us conservatives are way more armed than snowflakes
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:01 AM   #167
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Please name one piece of legislation that the left has introduced in the last 20 years that is meant to build up the family and in turn build up society! They haven't. Their agenda has DESTROYED the family unit and life.

And you are correct that the issue is widely urban vs rural, but that's because generally liberals like to congregate and rely on others for handouts and self justification while conservatives tend to mind their own business and rely on themselves to work for what they have.

If we do have civil war, it will be between conservatives and liberals ( alt left vs alt right), but I have a hunch that Us conservatives are way more armed than snowflakes


Lol, ok

I support personal freedom, not a liberal agenda. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:03 AM   #168
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Lol, ok

I support personal freedom, not a liberal agenda. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry.


Your views stated in this thread align with liberals. If you don't realize that, well. You know.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:23 AM   #169
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Your views stated in this thread align with liberals. If you don't realize that, well. You know.


Live and let live
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:24 AM   #170
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Live and let live


Unless you're in the womb
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:27 AM   #171
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unless you're in the womb
boom!
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:32 AM   #172
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Unless you're in the womb


Not mine or your choice.

As stated previously; between the woman, her doctor and God.
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Old 03-15-2017, 10:36 AM   #173
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Not mine or your choice.

As stated previously; between the woman, her doctor and God.


Correct, it was LEGISLATED to be legal. Something you say shouldn't happen. And that doesn't make it right. So explain to the class how mandating inclusion is any different than legislating morality.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:02 PM   #174
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Correct, it was LEGISLATED to be legal. Something you say shouldn't happen. And that doesn't make it right. So explain to the class how mandating inclusion is any different than legislating morality.


I don't believe I'll be able to explain it to you
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:20 PM   #175
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I don't believe I'll be able to explain it to you


Don't do it for me. Do it for everyone else who thinks you're a liberal claiming to be a libertarian. Maybe they'll understand.

The problem is, you're not able to be a libertarian and say that the government should allow this, or restrict that. You either want them to leave the citizens alone and simply provide protection, or you want them to legislate inclusion. Which is it?
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:30 PM   #176
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Don't do it for me. Do it for everyone else who thinks you're a liberal claiming to be a libertarian. Maybe they'll understand.

The problem is, you're not able to be a libertarian and say that the government should allow this, or restrict that. You either want them to leave the citizens alone and simply provide protection, or you want them to legislate inclusion. Which is it?


Likewise, I can say your idea to force pro life beliefs on everyone disqualifies you from being a libertarian.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:34 PM   #177
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Likewise, I can say your idea to force pro life beliefs on everyone disqualifies you from being a libertarian.


Ahhhh. You see, I never claimed to be the elusive libertarian. I claimed to be conservative. I also did not push my pro life views on anyone either. What I did do is quote your pro death views and ask you how/why your views on that differed from your views on business. You want a woman to be able to choose to kill an unborn human but you want a business to be forced to go against its beliefs.

I want to know why you consider this ideology libertarian
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:38 PM   #178
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Likewise, I can say your idea to force pro life beliefs on everyone disqualifies you from being a libertarian.
Xbow, if you read the articles I posted above it proves that only 4% of Libertarians vote and believe in the Libertarian parties platforms like you. 55-65 percent of Libertarians vote Republican. You still think pro life beliefs disqualify you from being a Libertarian?
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:46 PM   #179
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Ahhhh. You see, I never claimed to be the elusive libertarian. I claimed to be conservative. I also did not push my pro life views on anyone either. What I did do is quote your pro death views and ask you how/why your views on that differed from your views on business. You want a woman to be able to choose to kill an unborn human but you want a business to be forced to go against its beliefs.

I want to know why you consider this ideology libertarian
What he does not understand is, as a free man If I want to eat at a café where they allow smoking I should have that choice. I do not smoke but I believe a business man should be able to allow smoking in his establishment if he wants to. Unfortunatly, many cities and states have taken the business over to run how they feel it should be ran....Xbow does not see this as a freedom lost. He sees it as a benefit gained. Because smoking is bad for a persons health. Well, its not bad for my health if I choose not to eat there.
Like all liberals, they want to tell us free people what we can and cant do for our own good. Well, I don't need or want anyone telling me what I can and cant do.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:51 PM   #180
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Xbow, if you read the articles I posted above it proves that only 4% of Libertarians vote and believe in the Libertarian parties platforms like you. 55-65 percent of Libertarians vote Republican. You still think pro life beliefs disqualify you from being a Libertarian?


Yes
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:52 PM   #181
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Ahhhh. You see, I never claimed to be the elusive libertarian. I claimed to be conservative. I also did not push my pro life views on anyone either. What I did do is quote your pro death views and ask you how/why your views on that differed from your views on business. You want a woman to be able to choose to kill an unborn human but you want a business to be forced to go against its beliefs.

I want to know why you consider this ideology libertarian


The law disagrees with you
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:59 PM   #182
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The law disagrees with you


Dude! Seriously! The "law" is what YOU are supposed to be against as a libertarian

Good grief. Answer the question. How is it different
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:19 PM   #183
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Wrong

But I am tired of conservative trying to dictate their morals to the whole world
XBow. I've tried to listen to you with an open mind. But for a libertarian, you sure are anti-conservative. You seem to be in favor of liberal laws, but against conservative laws. Not sure I've seen any negative comments about liberal ideas but plenty about conservative ideas. I'm not sure that makes you a libertarian. No offense intended, but to me you sound more like a liberal with some libertarian leanings.

I'm a conservative who thinks the government should stay out of people's bedrooms, bathrooms, healthcare, etc..
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:22 PM   #184
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Yes

Ok, well the vast majority of Libertarians disagree with you so.........
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:40 PM   #185
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Xbow hates conservatives forcing their morals on the rest of the population
But who really does these things....like the liberal hand book says. accuse others of doing the things you actually do.

Forced on the American people
trans bathrooms
trans and gays in the boys scouts and opposite gender locker rooms
Smoking bans
gay marriage
forcing business owners to provide services for gay weddings regardless if its against the business owners Christian values
Politically correct speech restrictions ( limiting free speech)
Muslim refugees
mandated health care
Carleton University faces severe criticism for its latest politically correct decision to remove weight scales from its gym and workout areas to prevent the “triggering” of overweight students.
More liberalism forcing stupidity on people
Principle David Frankel sent a note home to parents saying, “Students were instructed that physical contact including tag games, touch football, etc. were not allowed on the yard.”
I could go on all day with the stupid crap liberals have forced on the American people XBOW
why don't you list a couple that conservatives have forces on you?

I almost forgot one
Sanctuary cities...everyone in those cities just love them some illegal alien rapist /gang members

Last edited by flywise; 03-15-2017 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:03 PM   #186
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XBow. I've tried to listen to you with an open mind. But for a libertarian, you sure are anti-conservative. You seem to be in favor of liberal laws, but against conservative laws. Not sure I've seen any negative comments about liberal ideas but plenty about conservative ideas. I'm not sure that makes you a libertarian. No offense intended, but to me you sound more like a liberal with some libertarian leanings.



I'm a conservative who thinks the government should stay out of people's bedrooms, bathrooms, healthcare, etc..


You are a very unique conservative apparently.

Most want into bedrooms and bathrooms.
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:03 PM   #187
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Ok, well the vast majority of Libertarians disagree with you so.........


I'm used to standing on my own and standing up for what is right...

It's cool
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:05 PM   #188
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Xbow hates conservatives forcing their morals on the rest of the population

But who really does these things....like the liberal hand book says. accuse others of doing the things you actually do.



Forced on the American people

trans bathrooms

trans and gays in the boys scouts and opposite gender locker rooms

Smoking bans

gay marriage

forcing business owners to provide services for gay weddings regardless if its against the business owners Christian values

Politically correct speech restrictions ( limiting free speech)

Muslim refugees

mandated health care

Carleton University faces severe criticism for its latest politically correct decision to remove weight scales from its gym and workout areas to prevent the “triggering” of overweight students.

More liberalism forcing stupidity on people

Principle David Frankel sent a note home to parents saying, “Students were instructed that physical contact including tag games, touch football, etc. were not allowed on the yard.”

I could go on all day with the stupid crap liberals have forced on the American people XBOW

why don't you list a couple that conservatives have forces on you?



I almost forgot one

Sanctuary cities...everyone in those cities just love them some illegal alien rapist /gang members


War on drugs

EPA

DHS

Patriot act

DEA

at least three of those by Executive Order by Republican presidents.

Should I go on?
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:16 PM   #189
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Dude! Seriously! The "law" is what YOU are supposed to be against as a libertarian

Good grief. Answer the question. How is it different


I have already stated in this thread that no one is 100% libertarian.

As I have stated before, if you don't agree with abortion don't have one.

There really is no point in continuing this conversation. We will just continue to disagree on what flavor of libertarianism we follow. We will never convince the other side that they're wrong.


I am personally not in favor of abortion or same-sex marriage, but who died and left me boss.

I choose to let people be adults and make their own decisions.

Live and let live.

That's my opinion, and that's the way I'm going to live my life.

I will also always side with uniting the states, instead of dividing them through states rights moral issues. That leads to segregation and division and frustration and anger and violence.

For example, what if the states got to decide on gay marriage. Would it not be funny as hell if some northeastern states no longer recognized heterosexual marriage?


What if your company told you they were moving you to New York, but New York State won't recognize your marriage, lol
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:43 PM   #190
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War on drugs

EPA

DHS

Patriot act

DEA

at least three of those by Executive Order by Republican presidents.

Should I go on?


Which 3? Did you even look up the origins of any of these?


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Old 03-15-2017, 05:50 PM   #191
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So, let me try and understand,
You claim conservatives force our MORALS on the American public and then counter my list of moral laws and executive orders by libs with the EPA, DHS AND THE DEA as being equivalent?
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:01 PM   #192
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Which 3? Did you even look up the origins of any of these?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Richard Nixon – EPA, DEA

George Bush – DHS
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:03 PM   #193
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So, let me try and understand,
You claim conservatives force our MORALS on the American public and then counter my list of moral laws and executive orders by libs with the EPA, DHS AND THE DEA as being equivalent?


Don't forget the patriot act.

All of them are violations against citizens if you ask me. More power to the government, less power for the people

Especially department of homeland security and the DEA
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:14 PM   #194
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Xbow hates conservatives forcing their morals on the rest of the population

But who really does these things....like the liberal hand book says. accuse others of doing the things you actually do.



Forced on the American people

trans bathrooms

trans and gays in the boys scouts and opposite gender locker rooms

Smoking bans

gay marriage

forcing business owners to provide services for gay weddings regardless if its against the business owners Christian values

Politically correct speech restrictions ( limiting free speech)

Muslim refugees

mandated health care

Carleton University faces severe criticism for its latest politically correct decision to remove weight scales from its gym and workout areas to prevent the “triggering” of overweight students.

More liberalism forcing stupidity on people

Principle David Frankel sent a note home to parents saying, “Students were instructed that physical contact including tag games, touch football, etc. were not allowed on the yard.”

I could go on all day with the stupid crap liberals have forced on the American people XBOW

why don't you list a couple that conservatives have forces on you?



I almost forgot one

Sanctuary cities...everyone in those cities just love them some illegal alien rapist /gang members


Take out the issues driven by Biblically-motivated discrimination and oppression and you've got a good point.
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:16 PM   #195
J Sweet
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Richard Nixon – EPA, DEA

George Bush – DHS


DHS exists via the Homeland Security Act. A law passed by congress, not an executive order. All Bush did was appoint Tom Ridge to a non cabinet position to takeover a department that would be created as law by congress.

War on drugs was Herbert Hoover a dem but both red and blue have enforced it for the last 100 yrs

Patriot Act by definition not an executive order rather an act of congress.

DEA and EPA both Nixons babies.
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:45 PM   #196
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Not mine or your choice.

As stated previously; between the woman, her doctor and God.
This argument has always puzzled me. Between the woman and her doctor? How does the doctor's opinion figure in the equation? That reduces the decision to whether or not she needs to have her appendix removed. I doubt an abortion doctor is going to counsel her against using his services. The question is whether or not this nascent human life with entirely unique DNA is worth giving a chance to be born. You don't have to be religious to believe it does.

Last edited by jerp; 03-15-2017 at 06:51 PM..
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:49 PM   #197
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DHS exists via the Homeland Security Act. A law passed by congress, not an executive order. All Bush did was appoint Tom Ridge to a non cabinet position to takeover a department that would be created as law by congress.

War on drugs was Herbert Hoover a dem but both red and blue have enforced it for the last 100 yrs

Patriot Act by definition not an executive order rather an act of congress.

DEA and EPA both Nixons babies.


When I refer to the war on drugs I'm talking about the doubling down that Richard Nixon did and the tripling down that Ronald Reagan did.

Sorry, W did establish the DHS by EO

https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...0011008-2.html


I never said the patriot act was an EO, but George Bush and Congress used fear tactics to get it passed.


Those that would give up Liberty to ensure security deserve neither – Benjamin Franklin
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:52 PM   #198
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Take out the issues driven by Biblically-motivated discrimination and oppression and you've got a good point.
There are non.
If liberals want liberal things they should have them placed on a ballot. Oh wait, they have, and they were voted down almost every time. Thats how America should work.
Also, there is nothing wrong with a club like the boy scouts having principles they want to operate by, that is until the liberals throw a fit.
If gay kids want a scout type organization why not just start one instead of forcing them to change the way they have operated for a hundred years.
Why force a golf club to open its membership to women. Cant women simply start their own? Socialist force their moral ideals
On people in order to " level the playing field", so no one has a percieved advantage. conservatives do not.
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:17 PM   #199
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There are non.

If liberals want liberal things they should have them placed on a ballot. Oh wait, they have, and they were voted down almost every time. Thats how America should work.

Also, there is nothing wrong with a club like the boy scouts having principles they want to operate by, that is until the liberals throw a fit.

If gay kids want a scout type organization why not just start one instead of forcing them to change the way they have operated for a hundred years.

Why force a golf club to open its membership to women. Cant women simply start their own? Socialist force their moral ideals

On people in order to " level the playing field", so no one has a percieved advantage. conservatives do not.


There most certainly are some.

Not sure social conservatives want a vote on this. Outside the traditional bastions of Biblically-based discrimination and oppression, they probably wouldn't fare too well.

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.re.../idUSKBN16H1A4
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:38 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
There are non.

If liberals want liberal things they should have them placed on a ballot. Oh wait, they have, and they were voted down almost every time. Thats how America should work.

Also, there is nothing wrong with a club like the boy scouts having principles they want to operate by, that is until the liberals throw a fit.

If gay kids want a scout type organization why not just start one instead of forcing them to change the way they have operated for a hundred years.

Why force a golf club to open its membership to women. Cant women simply start their own? Socialist force their moral ideals

On people in order to " level the playing field", so no one has a percieved advantage. conservatives do not.


I agree with everything you said except for your first sentence
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