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Old 03-07-2017, 04:00 PM   #1
J Sweet
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Default Obamacare 2.0

Anyone paying attention to this bill? From what I have been hearing today this thing made by the Republican House (a group of useless morons that cant accomplish anything without being horsewhipped) has more subsidies in it than Obama care did. Doesn't touch Medicaid expansion for sometime in the next decade. Enforces a worse mandate penalty than before.

What a **** show.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:09 PM   #2
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Once again the gutless Republicans have failed the American people
only hope is that this is part one of a 3 phase roll out
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:30 PM   #3
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I'm here in DC.....thought I was misunderstanding the updates from on my cell from FOX, CNN and BBC. Really odd at best.....guess there is more to come on this.

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Old 03-07-2017, 04:33 PM   #4
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I'm here in DC.....thought I was misunderstanding the updates from on my cell from FOX, CNN and BBC. Really odd at best.....guess there is more to come on this.

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There certainly better be
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:35 PM   #5
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They are calling it TrumpCare on all the news shows. Sounds like more of the same with a different name. Our country is in trouble.....doesn't matter which group of clowns is in charge.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:39 PM   #6
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They claim the initial bill was made to get trough procedure. The claim the good stuff is going to come later on. I'm curious to hear what my congressman has to say about this.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:43 PM   #7
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I'm here in DC.....thought I was misunderstanding the updates from on my cell from FOX, CNN and BBC. Really odd at best.....guess there is more to come on this.

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Ryan is basically saying, "Trust us. We have to pass this bill to see what will be in the next phases." He made the excuse that they can't do any better than this because of the Senate voting rules. BS. Obamacare was passed with less than 60 votes in the reconciliation process. They could completely repeal the whole thing with the same process. They just don't want to.

What a complete and utter failure. All they're doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. They aren't repealing any part of Obamacare. They're just reorganizing it. Ryan said that "Phase 2" is where all the Obamacare regulations will be done away with, and he said that the HHS Secretary will cut them. But that just leaves the whole system in the hands of an unelected Washington bureaucrat, and the next time we have a Democrat in office the new unelected bureaucrat in charge will be able to put in whatever BS government regulations the Dems want.

They need to just repeal the whole thing and get the government OUT of the health insurance business. Then, instead of replacing a bad idea with another bad idea, they need to just get government out of the way and let consumers and the private sector handle it. Health insurance is expensive because health care costs are expensive. Health care costs are expensive because it is over-regulated by government, there is WAY too much defensive treatment being prescribed simply to CYA against all the ridiculous predatory trial lawyers' frivolous lawsuits, and mostly because consumers no longer have any direct negotiation or bargaining power in the payment process. Fix all of that, and costs will come down. If costs for care come down, guess what else happens? Health insurance premiums go down.

Trump calls Ryan's bill "our beautiful health care bill". #fail.

Call it TrumpCare, RyanCare, or RINOcare. Doesn't matter. It's still just another version of the same old big government controlled health care fiasco. They're fascinated with health insurance, because that's something that big government can get involved in. They're not focused on the real problem, which is the cost of actual health care - NOT health insurance. Health insurance cost is a symptom. If all you do is treat the symptoms, the sickness doesn't get healed.

Last edited by Shane; 03-07-2017 at 04:46 PM..
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
Ryan is basically saying, "Trust us. We have to pass this bill to see what will be in the next phases." He made the excuse that they can't do any better than this because of the Senate voting rules. BS. Obamacare was passed with less than 60 votes in the reconciliation process. They could completely repeal the whole thing with the same process. They just don't want to.

What a complete and utter failure. All they're doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. They aren't repealing any part of Obamacare. They're just reorganizing it. Ryan said that "Phase 2" is where all the Obamacare regulations will be done away with, and he said that the HHS Secretary will cut them. But that just leaves the whole system in the hands of an unelected Washington bureaucrat, and the next time we have a Democrat in office the new unelected bureaucrat in charge will be able to put in whatever BS government regulations the Dems want.

They need to just repeal the whole thing and get the government OUT of the health insurance business. Then, instead of replacing a bad idea with another bad idea, they need to just get government out of the way and let consumers and the private sector handle it. Health insurance is expensive because health care costs are expensive. Health care costs are expensive because it is over-regulated by government, there is WAY too much defensive treatment being prescribed simply to CYA against all the ridiculous predatory trial lawyers' frivolous lawsuits, and mostly because consumers no longer have any direct negotiation or bargaining power in the payment process. Fix all of that, and costs will come down. If costs for care come down, guess what else happens? Health insurance premiums go down.

Trump calls Ryan's bill "our beautiful health care bill". #fail.

Call it TrumpCare, RyanCare, or RINOcare. Doesn't matter. It's still just another version of the same old big government controlled health care fiasco. They're fascinated with health insurance, because that's something that big government can get involved in. They're not focused on the real problem, which is the cost of actual health care - NOT health insurance. Health insurance cost is a symptom. If all you do is treat the symptoms, the sickness doesn't get healed.
All liberals hear you say is I want to take away health care from the "poor" people because I hate them.

I agree with what you say 100%. Get rid of it..period.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:55 PM   #9
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Anyone who was paying attention knew this is what it would be. Trump's only complaint about the ACA was the mandate, he still wanted to cover preexisting conditions (impossible without the mandate).

Ryan, is a ****. The Republicans are too scared to kill the ACA because they do not want to be held responsible for the instability that could possibly follow before anything righted itself. This is exactly what the ACA was designed to do. It was never meant to work, it was meant to end free market insurance for good. We will be a single payer system within 10 years.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:01 PM   #10
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All liberals hear you say is I want to take away health care from the "poor" people because I hate them.

I agree with what you say 100%. Get rid of it..period.
When Obamacare was passed by the Dems, all conservatives heard them say was "We want to control all aspects of your life and take your money and give it to people that vote for us." And, yet, they went ahead and did what they wanted to do because they had the votes and the President to get it done.

Now, Republicans have all the power, and they won't use it for our benefit. I can only believe that they don't care about what is good for us. They are just as interested in big government control of everything as the Dems are. They only fight with the Dems over who gets to be in charge.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:06 PM   #11
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Anyone who was paying attention knew this is what it would be. Trump's only complaint about the ACA was the mandate, he still wanted to cover preexisting conditions (impossible without the mandate).

Ryan, is a ****. The Republicans are too scared to kill the ACA because they do not want to be held responsible for the instability that could possibly follow before anything righted itself. This is exactly what the ACA was designed to do. It was never meant to work, it was meant to end free market insurance for good. We will be a single payer system within 10 years.
Yep. Trump has always been in favor of government run health insurance. So has Ryan and most of the other GOP leadership. And, yet, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, and others like them are the "bad guys"....

At least we continue to be entertained by politically incorrect Twitter battles with the media, I guess.

Not surprised at all.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:11 PM   #12
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Ryan is basically saying, "Trust us. We have to pass this bill to see what will be in the next phases." He made the excuse that they can't do any better than this because of the Senate voting rules. BS. Obamacare was passed with less than 60 votes in the reconciliation process. They could completely repeal the whole thing with the same process. They just don't want to.

What a complete and utter failure. All they're doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. They aren't repealing any part of Obamacare. They're just reorganizing it. Ryan said that "Phase 2" is where all the Obamacare regulations will be done away with, and he said that the HHS Secretary will cut them. But that just leaves the whole system in the hands of an unelected Washington bureaucrat, and the next time we have a Democrat in office the new unelected bureaucrat in charge will be able to put in whatever BS government regulations the Dems want.

They need to just repeal the whole thing and get the government OUT of the health insurance business. Then, instead of replacing a bad idea with another bad idea, they need to just get government out of the way and let consumers and the private sector handle it. Health insurance is expensive because health care costs are expensive. Health care costs are expensive because it is over-regulated by government, there is WAY too much defensive treatment being prescribed simply to CYA against all the ridiculous predatory trial lawyers' frivolous lawsuits, and mostly because consumers no longer have any direct negotiation or bargaining power in the payment process. Fix all of that, and costs will come down. If costs for care come down, guess what else happens? Health insurance premiums go down.

Trump calls Ryan's bill "our beautiful health care bill". #fail.

Call it TrumpCare, RyanCare, or RINOcare. Doesn't matter. It's still just another version of the same old big government controlled health care fiasco. They're fascinated with health insurance, because that's something that big government can get involved in. They're not focused on the real problem, which is the cost of actual health care - NOT health insurance. Health insurance cost is a symptom. If all you do is treat the symptoms, the sickness doesn't get healed.



This is a lot like building a wall without going after the employers that hire the illegals. Treating the symptom without addressing the sickness is never a good idea. But it gets ratings.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:14 PM   #13
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Yep. Trump has always been in favor of government run health insurance. So has Ryan and most of the other GOP leadership. And, yet, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, and others like them are the "bad guys"....

At least we continue to be entertained by politically incorrect Twitter battles with the media, I guess.

Not surprised at all.
Not surprised either, I expected this. This was my single biggest complaint of Trump before the election. He has proven many of my doubts about him wrong and I've been gladly eating crow about a lot of things, but this is a big one.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:15 PM   #14
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Bingo!!! Thread can be locked. Again, like Pelosi told Americans "pass the bill to see what is in it!" Absoulutely zero difference in these nitwits when it TRULY comes to the well being of this nations citizens. ......just sad.....but oddly predictable!!!

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Old 03-07-2017, 05:27 PM   #15
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You won't lower the cost of health care until you lower Dr insurance cost and you won't lower their insurance cost until you get rid of fraudulent claims against Dr's. Most of the fraudulent claims come from the low life's that don't have a job and we pay for them to live. Which they don't have insurance so Obama care had us pay for all there insurance. They didn't want to get rid of everything in the new policy because so many people can't take care of themselves.

The new policy does get rid of the fine if you don't have insurance and employers no longer are required to pay for employees insurance. Which may help the small business. It also keeps insurance for people with preexisting conditions which I feel is a good thing. But otherwise it's a gutless attempt at trying not to **** off the liberals, which are going to be ****** no matter what.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:34 PM   #16
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The gutless wonders in the GOP passed a full repeal of Obamacare in 2015 - when they knew it would be vetoed by Obama. Now, when the GOP has ALL the power, they won't even debate that same bill again, much less pass it and get it signed into law.

Again, I'm not surprised. I don't know why it makes me so mad.
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Old 03-07-2017, 06:09 PM   #17
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Until they actually add in & allow across state line competition, they are not being serious about getting this fixed...this is a must to getting us back on track.
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Old 03-07-2017, 06:28 PM   #18
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Best thing they could of done is to have left it alone , it would of died on its own in a year and Obama would of been to blame.


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Old 03-07-2017, 06:35 PM   #19
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Until they actually add in & allow across state line competition, they are not being serious about getting this fixed...this is a must to getting us back on track.
The same 3 or 4 insurance companies are selling insurance in every state. It might help a little bit to open up interstate insurance markets, but it isn't the magic fix to the whole system. We'd still be shopping the same handful of insurance companies selling the same products.

Now if the federal government got out of the healthcare regulation and every state got to design coverage however they see fit, then the interstate competition deal would start to be more meaningful.
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:07 PM   #20
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The gutless wonders in the GOP passed a full repeal of Obamacare in 2015 - when they knew it would be vetoed by Obama. Now, when the GOP has ALL the power, they won't even debate that same bill again, much less pass it and get it signed into law.

Again, I'm not surprised. I don't know why it makes me so mad.
I guess i always hold out hope that they would wake up one day with a set of brass ones. I guess now ill just hope they at least wake up with some pea sized ones.
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:35 PM   #21
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I guess i always hold out hope that they would wake up one day with a set of brass ones. I guess now ill just hope they at least wake up with some pea sized ones.
I hope they wake up with a moving van in front of their offices, making room for their real conservative replacements.
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:44 PM   #22
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I hope they wake up with a moving van in front of their offices, making room for their real conservative replacements.
Now that would be fantastic!
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:17 AM   #23
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All the politicians are in cahoots. They put on these big shows during the day & then go drink together at night & laugh at the stupid public. The best thing that could happen is they were all tried for treason & executed.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:22 AM   #24
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I definitely prefer trump over Hillary and I like a lot of his rhetoric but I was well aware that presidents are politicians and they are all full of bull and campaign promises are truly a known gimmick. So I'm not surprised.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:23 AM   #25
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http://votethemallout.net/

http://www.kickthemallout.com/



Incumbents should be automatically gone regardless of party.

If we as the American people can unite and start running these *******s out of town, they will quickly learn who the boss is.
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:12 AM   #26
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Obamacare LITE is not going to end well for the Republicans
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:04 AM   #27
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If wanting the government out of my life and for them to balance the budget is liberal, then I guess you don't really understand what libertarian means

Let me show you the difference

Re-pubs want to balance the budget, so do libertarians

Re-pubs also want to dictate your social morals. Libertarians, the party that REALLY supports small government, does not want the government in people's personal lives.

A true conservative wants small government, not to dictate to others what to do.

that is not small government, that is hypocrisy by the Republicans.

Hopefully that helps you understand. you and a lot of other people.
I'd love to see examples
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:09 AM   #28
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It doesn't matter which party is in power, our country has changed and there going to give things away for votes, until we have term limits on the congress and senate at every level, it won't change.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:10 AM   #29
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I definitely prefer trump over Hillary and I like a lot of his rhetoric but I was well aware that presidents are politicians and they are all full of bull and campaign promises are truly a known gimmick. So I'm not surprised.


He has always been in favor of government having a strong hand in health care. This was not hidden.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:12 AM   #30
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It doesn't matter which party is in power, our country has changed and there going to give things away for votes, until we have term limits on the congress and senate at every level, it won't change.




They would literally fix almost everything wrong with our government right now.
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:56 AM   #31
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XBow, do you think that hiring police to protect us from criminal activity which is a direct involvement of the government in our personal lives is contrary to Libertarian beliefs?

In other words do you believe (since you say you are a Libertarian) that we should have police?
He's just an eye poker, it really doesn't matter what it is.
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:11 AM   #32
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Obamacare LITE is not going to end well for the Republicans
Well I'll be dang'd! You FINALLY posted something I can agree with!! Yes, there is hope after all...
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:18 AM   #33
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Well I'll be dang'd! You FINALLY posted something I can agree with!! Yes, there is hope after all...


We aren't that different.

If you knew me, you'd realize that.
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:23 AM   #34
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:23 AM   #35
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Lol
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:24 AM   #36
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Im very confused. That discourse couldn't have been more civil and its all been deleted?
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:46 AM   #37
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Im very confused. That discourse couldn't have been more civil and its all been deleted?


Unfortunately, that is the way things work around here. I am also confused.
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:57 AM   #38
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Im very confused. That discourse couldn't have been more civil and its all been deleted?


Maybe it was deleted because we were off topic. I really don't know.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:32 AM   #39
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This bill is a joke and the conservative movement needs to find a worthy, strong candidate to challenge Paul Ryan in the primary.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:34 AM   #40
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Maybe it was deleted because we were off topic. I really don't know.
The fact that in the deleted content was my advocacy as a free speech fundamentalist is beyond ironic right now.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:43 AM   #41
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This bill is a joke and the conservative movement needs to find a worthy, strong candidate to challenge Paul Ryan in the primary.
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:12 PM   #42
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Checked back in to see the discussion on libertarians, liberals, anarchists, conservatives, etc...
I'm guessing that was what was deleted. There are still bits of quotes here and there. I am truly disappointed. I would have liked to see that discussion. Maybe in another time. I guess it is a good thing that the thread is at least still here.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:09 PM   #43
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This bill is a joke and the conservative movement needs to find a worthy, strong candidate to challenge Paul Ryan in the primary.
They had other options when Ryan got the job. The problem is that there aren't enough actual conservatives in the GOP to swing the vote their way. Most of the GOP is made up of big government loving moderates.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:23 PM   #44
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They had other options when Ryan got the job. The problem is that there aren't enough actual conservatives in the GOP to swing the vote their way. Most of the GOP is made up of big government loving moderates.
Most of the GOP is swamp.. this bill is drenched in swampwater.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:27 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by LWC View Post
Checked back in to see the discussion on libertarians, liberals, anarchists, conservatives, etc...
I'm guessing that was what was deleted. There are still bits of quotes here and there. I am truly disappointed. I would have liked to see that discussion. Maybe in another time. I guess it is a good thing that the thread is at least still here.
Nothing to see here, back to cussing each other out about hog poison.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:49 PM   #46
Shane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarGuy View Post
Most of the GOP is swamp.. this bill is drenched in swampwater.
Yes sir.
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:25 PM   #47
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Funny thing they introduced 6 bills to repeal in the last administration, why not come back with one of those. They had to be good, cause Obama vetoed them.
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:13 PM   #48
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crazy
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:10 AM   #49
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This bill is getting a lot resistance from both sides.

I don't think this will end well.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:05 AM   #50
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Power of the purse-strings. Now the Rhinos have the power they do not want to give it up.
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