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    Originally posted by MadHatter View Post
    What about all them fellas down in the rain forest? Never had any contact with civilization. Never seen a pencil, book, microwave, church, etc.. Never heard the name Jesus, or God, and worship who knows what, if anything. Wild savages, who still live by the fang and claw. Have no clue or idea as to what religion is, never heard of heaven or hell, couldn't possibly even understand the salvation story if you had a way to communicate, without great effort. Not a single one ever hearing the 10 commandments, or living by them. Lived and died for 1000's of generations in this manner, and still are.
    Where do they fit in? You think Israel, prophecy, prayer, god giving his only son to die for you, etc.. ever crossed a single mind, out of 1000's of generations? I'll take NO for a $1000.
    The bible says God gives everyone a chance. So if they got their chance, what were they supposed to do with it. All the things a christian is required to do, to attain heaven, spreading the gospel, etc... You have no bible, no church, no preacher, no one else belives like you, and your entire life is about surviving, and the next meal, not far removed from an animal. I've never read any account of anyone encountering a wild person, and come to find out they are a Christian...? Have you?
    Seems to me the bible is aimed at the educated man. I've discussed it many times with people in the church including my childhood pastor, and the answers are as wild as they are different.
    The Bible says no such folks have existed. Romans 1.

    Gods grace is greater than your capacity to understand (mine too).

    The Bible says it is the foolish that He uses to put to shame the wise. It really is for the unlearned...it just takes a special Teacher to be understood appropriately.

    Comment


      Originally posted by JLivi1224 View Post
      Well, has anyone disproved God’s existence yet ?
      Has anybody proven it? I'll I've seen is "look at a sunrise", "watch a baby get born" and look at this bible verse. I don't see what's so magical about those things. A cow does the same thing everyday.

      Comment


        Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
        Truly that doesn't make any sense. People don't believe in flying fire breathing cows because the evidence for them is lacking. That doesn't take any faith. The same applies for lack of belief in a God.

        It would take a lot of faith to specifically say "there is absolutely no God, for that I am sure"

        Just as it would take the same faith to say "there is absolutely a God, for that I am sure"

        Saying "eh, not very compelling evidence for X, so I won't believe in it" requires zero faith.
        In your opinion...


        The Bible says different. Listen. I know you are well read and educated and I not here to change anyone’s heart. The Bible answers all these issues that are posed with an unbelieving heart.

        In my opinion, which is based on my own personal experiences, I think it would take more faith to “not” believe.

        You make some good points but the Bible says that God set wisdom on its ear and uses foolishness to put to shame mankind’s wisdom...He does so to make certain of where the glory lands.

        Thank you for the dialogue.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Death from Above View Post
          In your opinion...


          The Bible says different. Listen. I know you are well read and educated and I not here to change anyone’s heart. The Bible answers all these issues that are posed with an unbelieving heart.

          In my opinion, which is based on my own personal experiences, I think it would take more faith to “not” believe.

          You make some good points but the Bible says that God set wisdom on its ear and uses foolishness to put to shame mankind’s wisdom...He does so to make certain of where the glory lands.

          Thank you for the dialogue.
          I enjoy our dialogue and that we can disagree amicably. I would share a fire with you anytime, regardless of our differences in belief. Unless it's a high fence ranch...

          Comment


            Originally posted by Smell the Glove View Post
            A cow does the same thing everyday.
            Ah, that explains why a billion people worship them.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Tracy moss View Post
              If there are black holes GOD created them on the 4th day of creation! If non believers read the Bible and studied prophecy just a little bit and see what is going on in the world today especially with Israel,Iran,Russia and Syria and let don’t forget about North Korea. Israel has been in odds with the Middle East for thousands of year and is wrote about in the Bible thousands of years ago and all things prophecied is coming in to play. If you just keep your eyes toward Israel there is know way you would doubt the truths of the Bible .The best scientists will tie science and God together and will have all the answer to all there questions they ever wanted to know .But they will not get a nobel peace prize for it!
              !
              tracy brings truth! all the moving parts are in place for ezk 38 and isa 17

              this particular alliance is prophecy from 3000-ish years ago. you wont hear about this in the mega churches, or many pulpits at all. no idea why.

              if nastradamus had written ezk 38, everyone would be talking about it. interesting times indeed.

              happy sunday everyone. HE is risen!

              Comment


                Originally posted by MadHatter View Post
                What about all them fellas down in the rain forest? Never had any contact with civilization. Never seen a pencil, book, microwave, church, etc.. Never heard the name Jesus, or God, and worship who knows what, if anything. Wild savages, who still live by the fang and claw. Have no clue or idea as to what religion is, never heard of heaven or hell, couldn't possibly even understand the salvation story if you had a way to communicate, without great effort. Not a single one ever hearing the 10 commandments, or living by them. Lived and died for 1000's of generations in this manner, and still are.
                Where do they fit in?.
                I was told they go to hell. Doesn’t see right, does it?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Smell the Glove View Post
                  Has anybody proven it? I'll I've seen is "look at a sunrise", "watch a baby get born" and look at this bible verse. I don't see what's so magical about those things. A cow does the same thing everyday.
                  Some of the absolutely terrible things that happen in this world seems to more disprove it.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Chase This! View Post
                    Some of the absolutely terrible things that happen in this world seems to more disprove it.
                    Free will. And I’ll offer this, from another great book you guys should look into.



                    “just as we can’t fully explain the heights of God’s love, neither can we fully explain the depth of sin and evil. Indeed, part of the mystery of God’s love for us is that it more than covers our sin and the suffering in the world. It gives meaning to the suffering.
                    Indeed, more than any other belief system, Christianity addresses the origin and presence of evil while also offering hope in the eventual eradication of all pain. Unlike Eastern religions, Christianity doesn’t deny that evil is real. It’s uniquely positioned to offer hope and meaning. In Christianity, we can understand how evil came to be (the temptation of Satan and the fall of man; see Genesis 3). We can accept the fact of our guilt, but we can also rest in the promise of God’s solution, which involves His unfathomable love.
                    Think about it: To accomplish our salvation, the Creator allowed Himself to be murdered by His creation. Obviously, that doesn’t make sense to our limited understanding, just as it doesn’t make sense that a loving God would allow pain and suffering. Yet through Jesus’ victory over sin, death, evil and the grave, the world’s healing is conclusively guaranteed. It’s as if God says, “Trust me, world . . . if I can rise from the grave and conquer death, be assured that I am able to conquer any problem you are facing!”


                    Excerpt From
                    The 10 Most Common Objections to Christianity
                    Alex McFarland

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
                      Truly that doesn't make any sense. People don't believe in flying fire breathing cows because the evidence for them is lacking. That doesn't take any faith. The same applies for lack of belief in a God.

                      It would take a lot of faith to specifically say "there is absolutely no God, for that I am sure"

                      Just as it would take the same faith to say "there is absolutely a God, for that I am sure"

                      Saying "eh, not very compelling evidence for X, so I won't believe in it" requires zero faith.
                      Now be honest WHY people believe the bolded. I think we all know but somehow I doubt you admit to why though.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by monsterspike View Post
                        tracy brings truth! all the moving parts are in place for ezk 38 and isa 17
                        this particular alliance is prophecy from 3000-ish years ago. you wont hear about this in the mega churches, or many pulpits at all. no idea why.

                        if nastradamus had written ezk 38, everyone would be talking about it. interesting times indeed.
                        happy sunday everyone. HE is risen!
                        Mega and bigger churches are trying to make money IMO. That's why you don't hear all of the Word preached. They want to be mainly PC or whatever is mainstream Christian PC at the time. Ice cream sermons bring in more people. It's really sad.

                        Originally posted by Chase This! View Post
                        I was told they go to hell. Doesn’t see right, does it?
                        Originally posted by Chase This! View Post
                        Some of the absolutely terrible things that happen in this world seems to more disprove it.
                        God is all powerful. He knows all before you do. You will never understand why he does things. Romans 8:28 humans can sometimes use to understand why bad things happen.

                        Makes me sick to see people question God. Bible is clear on where people who think they're smarter than God will go. Maybe try to humble yourself a little and look for God instead of looking for ways to make yourself believe he doesn't exist. It's a persons choice to build on positive or negative.

                        No one will be in hell who doesn't deserve to be there. That I can promise.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by RiverRat1 View Post
                          Mega and bigger churches are trying to make money IMO. That's why you don't hear all of the Word preached. They want to be mainly PC or whatever is mainstream Christian PC at the time. Ice cream sermons bring in more people. It's really sad.




                          God is all powerful. He knows all before you do. You will never understand why he does things. Romans 8:28 humans can sometimes use to understand why bad things happen.

                          Makes me sick to see people question God. Bible is clear on where people who think they're smarter than God will go. Maybe try to humble yourself a little and look for God instead of looking for ways to make yourself believe he doesn't exist. It's a persons choice to build on positive or negative.

                          No one will be in hell who doesn't deserve to be there. That I can promise.
                          I had no choice in being created. Some say life is a gift, not all see it that way. We certainly had no choice.
                          I was created to worship a god, or burn forever... Free will is an illusion imo.
                          Here we have a being so powerful, he already knows if I'll be in hell or not, knew before he ever created me. Knew he was going to kill his son, knew Lucifer would rebel against him, etc...
                          When he created Lucifer, he created the part of him that rebelled, and he knew this.....When his son died he already knew about it, and already knew he wasn't gone for good. The bible presents everything as if God didn't know any of this and it crushed him. How can it be such a horiible loss, for such an omnipotent creature, if his celestial son is coming back to life.
                          I would let you crucify my mother tomorrow and never shed a tear, if I knew, and she knew she was coming back to life, or I had the power to bring her back to life. I've never seen how this was anykind of sacrifice for God. I mean he made the whole story happen and knows the outcome, yet he doesn't like it when I'm bad, but he made me this way. Yet everyone in hell deserves to be there?
                          If there is a god, he gave me this brain, he knew it would develope this way, knew it wouldn't allow me to believe, knew it would ask these questions, yet I deserve to be in hell because I can't make it work in my brain. Crazy son.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by chopsknives View Post
                            Did yall know that while most scientists do not believe in God almost all Astrophysicists do? Let that sink in
                            I've enjoyed much of the dialogue in this thread and think your claim makes a larger point about belief in God.

                            I've no idea if there's good evidence for your claim or not, but I would submit it's not very useful without an understanding of what a respondent means by God.

                            Yahweh? Jesus? Allah? Vishnu?
                            Some other all knowing and controlling God directly involved in people's lives?
                            A god who created Earth and man but leaves everything alone?
                            A god who created the universe and then took an eternal break?
                            A god who established the laws of nature and "let it ride"?
                            A god that's nothing like the one described in the world's holy books?

                            Several historically significant scientists held very different concepts of God than most monotheistic believers.

                            For example, Einstein said “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”

                            Scientists like Einstein may have registered an affirmative vote for a belief in God, but they don't subscribe to belief in a personally involved God, traditional religious miracles or the effectiveness of prayer.

                            Less than 1/3 of the world's population subscribes to Christianity. If we were born in India, chances are very high we'd be Hindus. If we were born in Afghanistan, we'd almost certainly by Muslims. I say let that sink in. Such basic realizations have had a profound affect on my thinking. I don't believe that God brought me into this world in the United States because the odds are good that I'd be raised Christian. I'm more inclined to believe that for 40+ years I was simply a product of my environment. Reaching a state of mind where I was able to question my core beliefs and consider other possibilities has been somewhat liberating, as I no longer feel obligated to believe on faith alone that which I've honestly seen no good evidence to believe. I sort of feel like I'm back to square one. I've stripped down my core beliefs regarding religion and God and am in the process of building them back up without years of childhood indoctrination, social pressure and cultural influence working against my attempt to reach some reasonable conclusions. I'm fairly certain some ships have sailed, in that I doubt I'll ever embrace a fundamentalist viewpoint. I've seen too many good arguments against it.

                            I realize these thoughts are largely unpopular and considered blasphemous by some, especially in a community as conservative and traditional as the hunting community. However, a neat thing about this forum is it's diversity in religious thinking. It appears to me there are fundamentalist believers, philosophical believers, skeptical believers, agnostics and even non-believers present here, and despite the fundamentalists being convinced that several of us are on the way to a fiery eternity, this thread somehow stayed on the rails. Possible miracle?

                            Great scientists have left us with profoundly sincere and inspiring thoughts regarding life, spirituality and God. Here are some of my personal favorites.

                            Einstein - "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the Mysterious — the knowledge of the existence of something unfathomable to us, the manifestation of the most profound reason coupled with the most brilliant beauty. I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, or who has a will of the kind we experience in ourselves. I am satisfied with the mystery of life’s eternity and with the awareness of — and glimpse into — the marvelous construction of the existing world together with the steadfast determination to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature. This is the basics of cosmic religiosity, and it appears to me that the most important function of art and science is to awaken this feeling among the receptive and keep it alive."

                            Carl Sagan - “Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.”

                            Mari Curie - "Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less."

                            Galileo Galilei - “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or necessary demonstrations.”

                            Stephen Hawking - "Women. They are a complete mystery."

                            Best wishes to all.
                            Last edited by Vermin93; 03-18-2018, 01:33 PM.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Vermin93 View Post
                              I've enjoyed much of the dialogue in this thread and think your claim makes a larger point about belief in God.

                              I've no idea if there's good evidence for your claim or not, but I would submit it's not very useful without an understanding of what a respondent means by God.

                              Yahweh? Jesus? Allah? Vishnu?
                              Some other all knowing and controlling God directly involved in people's lives?
                              A god who created Earth and man but leaves everything alone?
                              A god who created the universe and then took an eternal break?
                              A god who established the laws of nature and "let it ride"?
                              A god that's nothing like the one described in the world's holy books?

                              Several historically significant scientists held very different concepts of God than most monotheistic believers.

                              For example, Einstein said “I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”

                              Scientists like Einstein may have registered an affirmative vote for a belief in God, but they don't subscribe to belief in a personally involved God, traditional religious miracles or the effectiveness of prayer.

                              Less than 1/3 of the world's population subscribes to Christianity. If we were born in India, chances are very high we'd be Hindus. If we were born in Afghanistan, we'd almost certainly by Muslims. I say let that sink in. Such basic realizations have had a profound affect on my thinking. I don't believe that God brought me into this world in the United States because the odds are good that I'd be raised Christian. I'm more inclined to believe that for 40+ years I was simply a product of my environment. Reaching a state of mind where I was able to question my core beliefs and consider other possibilities has been somewhat liberating, as I no longer feel obligated to believe on faith alone that which I've honestly seen no good evidence to believe. I sort of feel like I'm back to square one. I've stripped down my core beliefs regarding religion and God and am in the process of building them back up without years of childhood indoctrination, social pressure and cultural influence working against my attempt to reach some reasonable conclusions. I'm fairly certain some ships have sailed, in that I doubt I'll ever embrace a fundamentalist viewpoint. I've seen too many good arguments against it.

                              I realize these thoughts are largely unpopular and considered blasphemous by some, especially in a community as conservative and traditional as the hunting community. However, a neat thing about this forum is it's diversity in religious thinking. It appears to me there are fundamentalist believers, philosophical believers, skeptical believers, agnostics and even non-believers present here, and despite the fundamentalists being convinced that several of us are on the way to a fiery eternity, this thread somehow stayed on the rails. Possible miracle?

                              Great scientists have left us with profoundly sincere and inspiring thoughts regarding life, spirituality and God. Here are some of my personal favorites.

                              Einstein - "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the Mysterious — the knowledge of the existence of something unfathomable to us, the manifestation of the most profound reason coupled with the most brilliant beauty. I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, or who has a will of the kind we experience in ourselves. I am satisfied with the mystery of life’s eternity and with the awareness of — and glimpse into — the marvelous construction of the existing world together with the steadfast determination to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature. This is the basics of cosmic religiosity, and it appears to me that the most important function of art and science is to awaken this feeling among the receptive and keep it alive."

                              Carl Sagan - “Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual.”

                              Mari Curie - "Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less."

                              Galileo Galilei - “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or necessary demonstrations.”

                              Stephen Hawking - "Women. They are a complete mystery."

                              Best wishes to all.
                              Pretty Much.

                              Comment


                                Can’t understand why people would live without trying to know Jesus Christ!! But my heart goes out to the ones that dies without knowing Jesus !

                                Comment

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