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Old 12-23-2017, 07:57 AM   #1
RickBarbee
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Default New Riser Ordered

I have one of these in right hand 21" ordered up.
Can hardly wait to get it in my hands.
John is a great feller to deal with.

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Old 12-23-2017, 08:16 AM   #2
Bisch
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Default New Riser Ordered

What is it?

That thing wonít make you a traditional hypocrite, will it????
(Well, I put smiley faces after that comment twice, and for some reason, they donít show up!)

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Old 12-23-2017, 08:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bisch View Post
What is it?

That thing wonít make you a traditional hypocrite, will it????
(Well, I put smiley faces after that comment twice, and for some reason, they donít show up!)

Bisch


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LOL, it might.

It is call the Optimus.
Made by John's Custom Archery shop.
See link in my first post.

I've been looking for a slim line yet beefy no nonsense ILF riser for a while now. I think I've found it.

This one has all the right stuff to make it great for both hunting, and target shooting, but without any (for lack of a better word) gaudy look about it.

Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:16 AM   #4
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I can't find a price list on that site.
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:19 AM   #5
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I did not know they made limbs heavy enough in the ILF for what you shoot?
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:20 AM   #6
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I can't find a price list on that site.
If you are on FB, just PM him. He's pretty quick to reply.

Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 09:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
I did not know they made limbs heavy enough in the ILF for what you shoot?
Definitely hard to find, and fairly non existent anymore from the big manufacturers. Pretty much have to go with a custom for it.

Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:20 AM   #8
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Apparently the riser works, along with his Morrison limbs, judging by that huge Virginia 10-point he got as posted on his Facebook page. What limbs are you planning to use, Rick?
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:24 AM   #9
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Apparently the riser works, along with his Morrison limbs, judging by that huge Virginia 10-point he got as posted on his Facebook page. What limbs are you planning to use, Rick?
I'll be using my TradTech 68# carbon woods.
My Bigfoot SS limbs need some overhauling, and if I find the time to get that done I may switch over to them, but that'll likely be down the road a ways.

Rick
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:48 AM   #10
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Guess that's the beauty of going to the ILF riser; now you can put any weight limbs you want with the ILF connections from any bowyer. And, evidently, they can be made quiet, but I know I've heard some Olympic rigs that sounded kind of like dropping a can full of bolts in a steel sink when shot.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:41 AM   #11
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ILF is just an adjustable limb attachment system, and once adjusted not really much different from any other.

I haven't found it hard at all to get them as quiet as any other recurve I have shot, but I have heard (and cringed) from the sound coming from those you mention.

Undue noise can quite often be directly related to brace height. Brace height being to low to be specific about it. I almost always shoot my recurves with a fairly high brace height (around 8.75"), and they "always get quieter there.

Another little tidbit to that is - via extensive testing, I have never found my bows to shoot any slower with the higher brace height. Quite the opposite really. Without exception, when I have found the brace height where the bow is the most tame & quietest on the shot, it has also been the fastest.

Rick
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Old 01-27-2018, 08:30 AM   #12
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Very nice. I am in the market for a 17" ILF riser. I was going to buy a Tradtech but like the looks of this Optimus. The only thing I see posted for sale on his FB is the 21". I sent him a message since he posted a couple of weeks ago he was sending a 17 to a customer so he at least had one available.
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:23 AM   #13
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I got word from John, that my riser shipped yesterday, and is scheduled for delivery to my PO on Monday.

I'm excited.

Rick
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Old 01-27-2018, 09:59 AM   #14
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Awesome. I am looking forward to seeing it finished. I have a 28" draw length and typically like 58-60" recurves for hunting and why I was hoping to find a 17" or even 19" riser at most. If John doesn't have one I will probably just order a Tradtech.
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Old 01-27-2018, 10:43 AM   #15
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Refreshing my memory on the thread here. Rick, do you think the extra in Brace height is only because you have a longer draw OR do you think that the bow would perform better there for most? I realize it takes a lot of shooting for everyone to find that sweet spot on their rig and arrow combo, but since we are coming into the end of winter.. maybe. I have time for experimentation before Turkey season kicks off.
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Old 01-27-2018, 11:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Bones View Post
Refreshing my memory on the thread here. Rick, do you think the extra in Brace height is only because you have a longer draw OR do you think that the bow would perform better there for most? I realize it takes a lot of shooting for everyone to find that sweet spot on their rig and arrow combo, but since we are coming into the end of winter.. maybe. I have time for experimentation before Turkey season kicks off.
Not so much the draw length, although it does come into play to some degree.

It's really more to do with the length, and profile of the bow in question.

Normally, the longer the bow, the higher the brace height will need to be, but then the profile of the overall bow comes into play, and will also have an impact on where the best brace height will fall.

Speaking of recurves primarily - A deflex style bow will generally have a sweet spot brace height higher than the sweet spot brace height of a more straight handle, or reflex handle.

The thing about that is - even though the brace heights will differ on different handle profiles, on the same length bows you will find the measurements from the fades of the limbs to the string to be close to the same.

An example of that would be:
I have two 64" bows.
One with about a 2" reflex riser, the other with about a 2" deflex riser.
The reflex riser bow shoots best with a 7-1/2" brace height.
The deflex riser bow shoots best with a 8-3/4" brace height, yet when I measure from the fades of the limbs to the string on either bow the measurement is almost exactly the same, which means even though the brace heights are different, the limbs on both bows are preloading best at about the same spots.

Hope that made some sense.

Rick
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:56 PM   #17
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Yes sir, it really does. The grip of the Bear Super Mag, to the Grizzly. LOTS of difference there and extreme hand to wrist alignment. BUT if they were of equal bow length ( I know they are not) the measurement from the fades to the string would be close to identical. Preload = the amount of load or stress on the limb at brace or resting point, which does not matter the design of the grip. Just curious enough now to start some measurements.
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Old 01-28-2018, 06:38 PM   #18
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USPS tracking says my new riser is at my PO for pick up.

I'm excited !!!

Rick
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:34 PM   #19
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Awesome, looking forward to reading how you like it.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:51 PM   #20
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Well, get it set up and show off some pics.
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Old 01-29-2018, 11:50 AM   #21
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Received my 21" Optimus riser today from www.facebook.com/johnscustomarchery/

1st Impression - I'm about 10 times more impressed, than what I expected to be.

It is nothing short of superb as far as attention to detail, aesthetics, and craftsmanship are concerned.

It also has a very nice "slightly" low of center balance, which I love.

That's all before I even start setting it up.

Stay tuned.









Rick
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:10 PM   #22
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The riser comes with a removable shelf, designed for shooting off the shelf.
Nice little piece, and will work perfect for shooting feathers, but not so well for shooting vanes off the shelf.
It's a little to low profile, and little to wide for my taste.



So i set about installing one of my own design speed bump shelves with a center shot adjustment.







If you're wondering about all that extra velcro in the sight window, well if you're a hunter, and ever clanked an arrow against the hard surface of a riser at the wrong time, then you know exactly what it's for.

I mounted the quiver (with the included adapters for hard mounting), installed the limbs, and strung her up.

Even though the riser is exactly the same length as the Hoyt Excel I was using, the take off angles of the limb pads the same, and the contact point of where the string leaves the limbs is the same, the brace height came in 1/2" lower than when on the Hoyt.

The reason for the lower brace height is - the Optimus riser is slightly less deflex than the Hoyt riser.

I have the limb bolts bottomed out.
This gives me a 1/16" positive tiller (which I want), and the bow comes in at 69.5# at my draw of 29.5".

It was 68# on the Hoyt, and I assume the reason for the bit more is due to the straighter handle.

The bow is super quiet, super smooth on the draw, and extremely tame during the shot.
The balance is pretty near perfect. Much better than the Hoyt.

First 3 shots from 20 yards. Needs a tad of tuning but I'm happy.





Stay tuned.

Rick

Last edited by RickBarbee; 01-29-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:33 PM   #23
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By the way - I checked the limb alignment with my laser alignment tool, and without having to move anything the limbs are perfectly aligned.

Rick
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:33 PM   #24
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Looks great.

I do the same thing with the velcro, even if I am shooting a compound with enclosed rest. I do my best to eliminate any chance of accidental noise. I have yet to hunt deer in Texas, but in PA they were so pressured on public land they would spook at a mouse fart.
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:18 PM   #25
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I wound up going dead down the pipe with the center shot adjustment, a dead even tiller, and a 7/16" above square nocking point.

Rick
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:20 PM   #26
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Last 3 shot of the day, after some fine tuning/tweaking.

10 yarder busted the nock on the 20 yarder and deflected.

I think I'm done with the tuning.



Rick
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Old 01-31-2018, 04:16 AM   #27
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Rick,
Appreciate the review on your new ILF riser. I've been eyeballing a TradTech Titan III for awhile, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

I'm a fan of your yarn puffs and have made them for all my strings after watching your YouTube video.

I've read you should divide your string length in quarters and place the puffs one quarter of the way from the end of the string. Yours look a little closer to end of string in these pics.

Am I wrong about that?

Todd
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:48 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twillgo View Post
Rick,
Appreciate the review on your new ILF riser. I've been eyeballing a TradTech Titan III for awhile, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

I'm a fan of your yarn puffs and have made them for all my strings after watching your YouTube video.

I've read you should divide your string length in quarters and place the puffs one quarter of the way from the end of the string. Yours look a little closer to end of string in these pics.

Am I wrong about that?

Todd
The Titan III is a great riser. If you get one you'll likely like it real well.

You're right about the puffs. I install mine at 10.5" from the ends of the loops when I build the strings, then make minor adjustments if needed for sound adjustment, and/or tuning tweaks

The puffs on this particular bow are 11.5" from the ends of the loops, and 12.5" from the ends of the limb tips.

Rick
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:02 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
The Titan III is a great riser. If you get one you'll likely like it real well.

You're right about the puffs. I install mine at 10.5" from the ends of the loops when I build the strings, then make minor adjustments if needed for sound adjustment, and/or tuning tweaks

The puffs on this particular bow are 11.5" from the ends of the loops, and 12.5" from the ends of the limb tips.

Rick
Rick how did you come up with that starting point to install the puffs? The ones I use you tie in and would be tough to adjust but I would be interested to know if bow type, length, etc make a difference.

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Old 01-31-2018, 08:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
Rick how did you come up with that starting point to install the puffs? The ones I use you tie in and would be tough to adjust but I would be interested to know if bow type, length, etc make a difference.

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Gary, it's just where most have always worked best for me, so it's where I start.

Some I never have to move. Others need a little tweaking, but seldom much.

I don't tie my silencers in. I equally separate the strands/bundles of the string, and insert the silencers. Then they will just slide to where I want them, and stay put.

On the silencers I build, you can leave the tag ends of the middle tie long, and tie them in with those if desired, but I've never needed to.

Rick
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:34 AM   #31
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So they don't fall out or shift when you unstring a bow?

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Old 01-31-2018, 09:40 AM   #32
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rick,
Who makes the riser for John?
Mark (San Angelo)
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:48 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRT View Post
So they don't fall out or shift when you unstring a bow?

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No. Very nice fit. Easy in, easy out, and no slack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmark100 View Post
rick,
Who makes the riser for John?
Mark (San Angelo)
Overseas, but don't remember the machinist.
It is John's riser design, but he contracts out the machine work.
That machinist has been building John's risers under different names & selling them.

John did say he is looking to soon be machining them here, either himself, or contracted to a US machinist, but he is able to significantly keep the cost down for the customer as he is doing it now.

John's exact words to me were - "Rick, I want to be able to provide really nice ILF risers to my customers without them having to take out a loan to buy them."

Rick
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBarbee View Post
The Titan III is a great riser. If you get one you'll likely like it real well.

You're right about the puffs. I install mine at 10.5" from the ends of the loops when I build the strings, then make minor adjustments if needed for sound adjustment, and/or tuning tweaks

The puffs on this particular bow are 11.5" from the ends of the loops, and 12.5" from the ends of the limb tips.

Rick
Thanks for the response, Rick. I'm going to move mine a little closer to the tips to see if it quiets some more.

Todd
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:11 AM   #35
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I'm itching to pull the trigger on a Trad setup this year--this thread has been immensely helpful!
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:17 AM   #36
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Good looking bow, like the riser length, long sight window & removable shelf, designed for shooting off the shelf is excellent idea
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:21 PM   #37
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N
That machinist has been building John's risers under different names & selling them.
That is the issue with dealing overseas, no real laws. It is why you see so many copied broadheads on the market. If you look on Aliexpress and Alibaba you will find pretty much this exact same riser from several different sellers. The issue is buying from there you never know what quality you will get. I have heard some horror stories of some real junk that was delivered from poor QC practices over there. Buying from someone like Breathn, you may pay a little more, but you know he isn't going to sell you junk. If he gets a bad one he is going to get it taken care of before it ever gets to a customer. If you get a bad one straight from China, you are pretty much out the money you paid.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickbowcoop View Post
That is the issue with dealing overseas, no real laws. It is why you see so many copied broadheads on the market. If you look on Aliexpress and Alibaba you will find pretty much this exact same riser from several different sellers. The issue is buying from there you never know what quality you will get. I have heard some horror stories of some real junk that was delivered from poor QC practices over there. Buying from someone like Breathn, you may pay a little more, but you know he isn't going to sell you junk. If he gets a bad one he is going to get it taken care of before it ever gets to a customer. If you get a bad one straight from China, you are pretty much out the money you paid.
The trouble with that is even most name brand heads are built over seas. Rage broadheads are made in China. Probably in the same factory the knock offs I buy are.

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Old 02-03-2018, 01:19 PM   #39
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Handsome bow Rick.

I enjoy reading and learning the technicalities you drop into your threads. Many technicalities go over my head initially.
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
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The trouble with that is even most name brand heads are built over seas. Rage broadheads are made in China. Probably in the same factory the knock offs I buy are.

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We will never agree on the morality of buying knockoff's, so there is no sense in arguing about it. I do not want to further ruin Rick's thread with this tangent.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:01 PM   #41
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We will never agree on the morality of buying knockoff's, so there is no sense in arguing about it. I do not want to further ruin Rick's thread with this tangent.
LOL, you're not ruining anything.

The good thing where my riser is concerned, I got it from the guy who designed it whether he machined it or not.

Rick
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Old 02-03-2018, 07:07 PM   #42
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I think I understand your draw weight is 68lbs ish...?...what is your arrow breakdown? Length...deflection...FOC...overall weight...tip weight vs insert...etc.

Also...What degree do you cant or not?

Por favor. Gracias.

Last edited by Briar Friar; 02-03-2018 at 07:07 PM. Reason: TSpake
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:10 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar Friar View Post
I think I understand your draw weight is 68lbs ish...?...what is your arrow breakdown? Length...deflection...FOC...overall weight...tip weight vs insert...etc.

Also...What degree do you cant or not?

Por favor. Gracias.
Current draw weight is 69.5# at my 29.5" draw.

Arrows are:

Widowmaker Smash .300's. Company out of Australia.

These shafts use hard aluminum Outserts weighing 40 gr, that are tapered to the shaft from the mid point back.

The outsert weight gets spit between the point, and the shaft.
25 gr to the point.
15 gr (tapered half) to the shaft.
This is due to the outsert being 1" longer than the spot where the shaft bottoms out inside of it.

The actual shaft length is 30.25", and they have to be calculated that way for dynamic spine, and FOC due to the extra 1" / 20 gr of outsert added to the point weight, which makes them measure 31.25" to back of the actual point.

175 gr points with two 5 gr brass washers,
plus the 25 gr of outsert = 210 gr of actual out front weight.

6" wraps with 3 X 4" Marco Soft Vanes.

.166 GTO Goldtip nocks.

Total weight 640 gr / 9.3 GPP.

FOC = 14.4%.

These are a little on the weak side in dynamic spine, but I need them that way to help get vane clearance, and they shoot great.

I don't cant unless I have to.

Rick
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:15 AM   #44
twillgo
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Current draw weight is 69.5# at my 29.5" draw.

Arrows are:

Widowmaker Smash .300's. Company out of Australia.

These shafts use hard aluminum Outserts weighing 40 gr, that are tapered to the shaft from the mid point back.

The outsert weight gets spit between the point, and the shaft.
25 gr to the point.
15 gr (tapered half) to the shaft.
This is due to the outsert being 1" longer than the spot where the shaft bottoms out inside of it.

The actual shaft length is 30.25", and they have to be calculated that way for dynamic spine, and FOC due to the extra 1" / 20 gr of outsert added to the point weight, which makes them measure 31.25" to back of the actual point.

175 gr points with two 5 gr brass washers,
plus the 25 gr of outsert = 210 gr of actual out front weight.

6" wraps with 3 X 4" Marco Soft Vanes.

.166 GTO Goldtip nocks.

Total weight 640 gr / 9.3 GPP.

FOC = 14.4%.

These are a little on the weak side in dynamic spine, but I need them that way to help get vane clearance, and they shoot great.

I don't cant unless I have to.

Rick
Dang Rick! Those arrows seem to be built like tanks!

I know you've probably answered this question before, but I'll ask for myself...why do you choose to shoot vanes rather than feathers? I realize your setup is a little different due to using them. Very interested to know the answer knowing how much you like to tinker and there is probably a good reason for your choice.

Todd
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:15 PM   #45
RickBarbee
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Dang Rick! Those arrows seem to be built like tanks!

I know you've probably answered this question before, but I'll ask for myself...why do you choose to shoot vanes rather than feathers? I realize your setup is a little different due to using them. Very interested to know the answer knowing how much you like to tinker and there is probably a good reason for your choice.

Todd
They are definitely armor piercing arrows.

I shoot vanes for 4 reasons:

(1) - They are more durable than feathers by far.

(2) - They are impervious to moisture.
Zero effect from rain, and I can zip them through an animal, then wash them off, and they are ready to go again just as new.

(3) - They are much quieter in flight than feathers.

(4) - I hate building, and rebuilding arrows. #1 & #2 helps me with that.

Rick
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #46
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They are definitely armor piercing arrows.

I shoot vanes for 4 reasons:

(1) - They are more durable than feathers by far.

(2) - They are impervious to moisture.
Zero effect from rain, and I can zip them through an animal, then wash them off, and they are ready to go again just as new.

(3) - They are much quieter in flight than feathers.

(4) - I hate building, and rebuilding arrows. #1 & #2 helps me with that.

Rick
Right after I asked that question, I remember, "Hey, Rick has a youtube account...I'll check there!" Lo and behold. LOL!

Great...now something else I have to try. I am on the frugal side and don't like paying high dollar for True Flight turkey feathers, so I might just give them a try.

So, I googled it also. People say they have good results with Flex Fletched over Marco. They say the Marcos get mis-shapened and stay that way, while Flex Fletched straigten out.

Have you compared them?

Thanks for entertaining all my questions, sir!

Todd
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:48 PM   #47
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I've used the Allan Flex Fletch, and the Marco Soft Vanes mixed in the same quiver.
They are basically the same.

I've never had a problem with either one.

I use the Marco mainly due to their color selection.

Tuning can be tricky if you're going to try to shoot vanes off the shelf, but it's definitely doable.
I've got a pretty good handle on the tuning aspect of them, but still learning new things as I go.

Rick

Last edited by RickBarbee; 02-04-2018 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:07 PM   #48
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I've used the Allan Flex Fletch, and the Marco Soft Vanes mixed in the same quiver.
They are basically the same.

I've never had a problem with either one.

I use the Marco mainly due to their color selection.

Tuning can be tricky if you're going to try to shoot vanes off the shelf, but it's definitely doable.
I've got a pretty good handle on the tuning aspect of them, but still learning new things as I go.

Rick
Thank you, sir. Appreciate the benefit of your knowledge.

I like the color combo of your new string and yarn puffs on the new ILF bow...almost like your Halloween puffs. I lucked upon some camo yarn at WallyWorld that I've been using on all of my bows. That one roll should last a lifetime.

Definitely going to try some vanes next time I build arrows...but I've got so many made up, I need to stump more in this rock country where I live to thin the herd.

I'll be out shooting the next challenge before the big game.

Todd
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Old 02-04-2018, 08:38 PM   #49
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So I'm totally new to traditional archery. I had a Glenn Parker Grey Wolf that was a beautiful bow, but I just couldn't get it to shoot well.

Sadly I sold it.

However I just picked up an ILF bow. I've got to tune it and get everything set. Right now it's about an 8" brace height and noisy.
After reading this, I'll be adjusting that.
Thanks.


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Old 02-04-2018, 08:40 PM   #50
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BTW here is a pic of her.

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