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Old 12-23-2017, 09:16 PM   #51
RickBarbee
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I fully understand some folks (let's say reluctance) to be labeled with the moniker. Trust me, I've seen those embarrassing moments such as described by Buff.

My point was, is, and will remain - I am not going to let how some folks act, with their ignorance, and arrogance cause me to feel embarrassed of wearing the Traditional Archer/Bowhunter label, because I know it originally started in a complimentary way.

I'm proud of it, and proud of those who wear it appropriately by conducting themselves as a positive force for the sport as a whole.

Rick

EDIT:
P.S.
For the vast majority of my bowhunting adventure, it has been sharing camp with bowhunters where I was the only Trad guy there. I never had even one single bad experience. Those guys were my friends. My Bowhunting Brothers, and it has remained that way throughout the many years.

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Old 12-25-2017, 12:45 PM   #52
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To me: Traditional = Simple

I just use a wooden longbow, wood arrows, turkey feathers and metal points. Don't care about brands, labels, or the size of the deer I kill.

I hunt from the ground by sitting at the base of a tree or hanging off one in a sit and drag or maybe in a 20ft tree stand. Whatever works.

Carry on...
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Old 12-25-2017, 06:55 PM   #53
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I am an archer. I shoot all styles of bows, self bows, longbows,recurves and compounds. I like them all. Each bow has its own advantage and short comings. I have to be honest and say that I personally prefer to use a compound for most of my hunting because I am more accurate and confident with it. I also realize that stick bows work well too, it's just a personal thing. I'm even considering adding a crossbow to my arsonel, if it slings arrows.....I like it!
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:55 PM   #54
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To each their own.

I have no problem with folks not wanting to associate themselves with the "Traditional" handle.

What I do have a problem with is when folks try to belittle it, or make it out to be something bad, which it is not.

Rick
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:06 PM   #55
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My perspective is that I wish that the general concept of traditional archery was identified only with hunting, and only with the type of hunting methods and materials most often used and seen in the early days of Hill and Bear and post WWII...when it was in it's 'popular infancy' at least in North America. A nostalgic and romantic view perhaps, but nevertheless a much more common-sense (I think) reflection of what makes sense for the term traditional than what we have morphed into today through overuse of technology.

Traditional used to be the 'before compounds' era in America. A time when archery was more about enjoying the outdoors and the challenges brought by what was frequently (and fondly) referred to as hunting with a simple stick and string ...which made sense because that's pretty much what it was. Field archery using simple bows was also practiced and enjoyed, and to be honest I suppose it made just as much sense to regard a lemonwood target bow or bamboo-backed ASL as 'just as traditional' as a traditional hunting bow. But somehow, and at some point, the line where one type differed from the other turned into not only a palpable line but a loud screaming technological revolution, one that despite it's clear negative impacts to the idea of 'simple' archery we ignored in favor of, how should I say it, self-centered commercial opportunities.

Some will say that where we are now (a.k.a the loss of simplicity in archery) is imaginary because traditional never really existed anyway, that it's all 'just 'archery' no matter how we do it. I sure hope not. I'd hate to think the reason I hunt with a traditional bow is to pretend to honor the idea of challenging my skills when actually I'm likely to kill every animal I hunt...with a 'perfect score'...every time. How boring and self-defeating (in a 'not challenging at all' sort of way) would that be?

For a time hunting archery and target archery were overlapping subsets of each other. Objectives differed but they faced the same basic limits established by the technology of their time. But as technology, public media exposure and money entered the picture one 'subset' began to slowly swallow the other and so gained, at least in a social sense, the upper hand in defining how archery came to be portrayed. Target archery became the popular poster boy for all archery previously considered traditional. New converts to the sport, drawn by colorful media and market advertising (and not just a little by the olympics and compound bow craze), began identifying traditional with techno archery and embraced the conveniences it offered for both targets AND hunting. Hunting the hard way now had more to do with using high-end gear and learning/applying the intricacies of modern gadgets than learning to limit one's advantages through self-imposed restrictions in bows, arrows, aiming approaches and shooting distances. The new face of traditional archery became competition driven, a race to use whatever means available (without wheels of course) to mimic the very objectives that early traditional had specifically tried to avoid...success without limits. If that isn't hypocrisy at it's finest then I must be missing something.

I'm not against the current style of olympic target archery, it has it's own place. But to me it isn't traditional archery. It just doesn't pass the straight face test to be referred to by that term.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:01 AM   #56
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Honestly Retsbew it's hard to determine what exactly you are trying to say. I read your post three times. I'm not real smart though.
The vague references to technology and things associated with modern bows leaves a lot of room for speculation.

That said, if I'm reading and comprehending it right, it seems we agree on a couple things such as the target archery trend not equating to the hunting trend.

Myself I don't see myself as a string walker as I see that as just another way to "sight" a bow vs using your body and brain to make it work.

However I won't stand here and tell someone that's not true traditional and reject them.

I've seen that attitude from some traditional folks and it's quite off putting. It also seemed they were the ones who were generally poor shots and wounded more game than they took home.

I never met Fred Bear. However there are great leaders in archery today. I suspect those men and women are not the elitist types.

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Old 12-31-2017, 08:00 AM   #57
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Youíve obviously got your own view that you think should be gospel and that everyone else should follow. Donít sound like you are going to budge at all on that view, and all the rest of us are going to disagree with it, so why bother to keep pushing it here???? Just does not make sense to me???

JMHO,

Bisch


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Old 12-31-2017, 08:12 AM   #58
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I have got to be missing the point here somehow.

I was hunting with a recurve 50 years ago.
It was at the time the best bow I good afford and I was shooting what I considered the best arrows and best Broadhead.

I didn’t have a black widow bow or carbon arrows but if they had existed, I would have used them.

I’m setting in a pop up blind with a my buddy heater this morning, nice and warm.
I did not have either 50 years ago, I would have been setting on a 2x4 wedged in the fork of a tree freezing my but off.

I like being warm better but that’s just me
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:01 AM   #59
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Im with the others, I have no idea what you are trying to debate or prove? I sense that you feel “traditional archery” is a selfbow and wood arrows....if that’s what works for you and you like it and want to call it that, good for ya. But I feel like you are trying to say the new materials used in building bows somehow makes you have the ability to pick up a recurve or longbow and just go to the woods and “kill every animal you hunt”, that just isn’t the case. I didn’t pick up a recurve to impress you or anyone, or follow your rules or stay in between your guidelines of what traditional archery is. I started using a recurve to test my skill in the woods and get back to a simpler way to enjoy the outdoors, and I’m doing just that. I’ve been very successful in killing critters with trad bows and I’m gonna keep on doing it, you call it what you want, I’m gonna call it good and move on!

Clay
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:10 AM   #60
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I keep seeing this bumped to the top, so I went back and read the original post again.

It made less sense the 2nd time.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:24 AM   #61
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Are you saying that technology has ruined "traditional" archery or just the attitude towards trad?

I shot a Fred Bear recurve Take Down Magnum back in the early 70's. Magnesium handle and quick detach limbs and a stabilizer. It had sights and a raised shelf. Pretty modern for it's day. Never saw a wheel bow on the range back in those days. Most of the shooters at that club in San Antonio were strictly target shooters who enjoyed getting outside and developing their skills as an archer. They also enjoyed shooting competitions with each other. It formed a bond and comradeship among like minded people. Same as today.

I have just recently gotten back into Trad shooting and hunting. I love the comradeship and bond that traditional archers have. Much more relaxed than those other archers.

I really like your statement "learning to limit one's advantages through self-imposed restrictions in bows, arrows, aiming approaches and shooting distances."
That does a good job of describing how I look at my journey in Trad.

I believe this statement is totally false, "The new face of traditional archery became competition driven, a race to use whatever means available (without wheels of course) to mimic the very objectives that early traditional had specifically tried to avoid...success without limits."
I have not seen any "race" in the traditional form of archery "to use whatever means available". If anything, I see traditionalist going backwards in technology as selfbows, custom wood bows and wood arrows become more popular.
"Success without limits"? Huh??? You contradict yourself when earlier you stated, and I quote, "learning to limit one's advantages through self-imposed restrictions in bows, arrows, aiming approaches and shooting distances." (Still love that)

I will compete this year in 3D tournaments at the Trad level for the same reason that I did when I shot a compound bow, to encourage myself to shoot more often and improve my skills for hunting. I'm only competing against myself. If I happen to score well enough to win, then fine, it isn't my goal. So far I have yet to see a Traditional archer obsessed with winning. They just seem to be having fun.

Last edited by Geezy Rider; 12-31-2017 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:03 AM   #62
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Ok, I brought this topic up as food for thought and end-of-year reflection (it's winter here and 20 below zero..lot's of reflection time available). Talk and thoughtful conversation can be useful, constructive and even fun depending on how one perceives, interprets and responds. I'd suggest that anyone's opinion is no better or more important than another's, they are just points of view with no right-of-superiority attached or (hopefully) intended.

So, if something I"ve said or implied above triggers an urge in you to react in a defensive, aggressive or insulting manner in your perception or response then by all means feel free to pass by this thread and get on with your day. Otherwise, I'd respectfully request that you keep it civil and on-point so that others may have more rational discussion.

DRT, sorry for the long-windedness in my initial post, what I tried to say is that: 1.) I believe traditional archery is really about hunting, with simpler equipment and methods, that AVOIDS rather than invites technology as a means to it's desired end, while target shooting is PRIMARILY FOCUSED on competition using equipment and methods designed to make shooting and/or killing easier, without due respect payed to the original values associated with traditional. 2.) Target archery ideology has overshadowed and for the most part replaced the original concept of traditional, changing it to a technology-based concept to maximize efficiency/convenience; and 3.) To avoid confusing or losing the early values associated with traditional bowhunting, target archery should not be considered as part of traditional archery. Essentially, it is it's own type of archery and deserves to have it's own moniker or title.

In my view these circumstances have NOTHING to do with one's personal like or dislike for one type of archery over the other (I shoot some competitive archery just like many others do so I'm not biased against those who do). It's really a logic question, one of recognizing the significant ROOT differences between the two archery categories, by giving each of them their own due.
An old saying comes to mind when considering how to view traditional vs. target style...good fences make good neighbors.

Agree or disagree, it's all just food for thought. After all it IS a new year coming, a good time to make some personal decisions/resolutions on how we look at things.

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Old 12-31-2017, 11:37 AM   #63
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It's obvious by your writing style that you are an educated man. Could it be that maybe you're putting a little too much thought into this.

Or maybe I'm just not observant enough. I just haven't noticed these things that you speak of.

I wonder if the other indians got crossways with the first guy that backed his bow with sinew and tipped his arrows with iron points. Dang technology.
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:42 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geezy Rider View Post
It's obvious by your writing style that you are an educated man. Could it be that maybe you're putting a little too much thought into this.

Or maybe I'm just not observant enough. I just haven't noticed these things that you speak of.

I wonder if the other indians got crossways with the first guy that backed his bow with sinew and tipped his arrows with iron points. Dang technology.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:00 PM   #65
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This may or may not complicate this discussion, but, my contribution to the Trad archer and The Trad Way is a mechanical release device. WOW. There's paradox for you.

First of all, my company, my product, and I are for the Trad way first and foremost. Secondly, forget everything you know or think you know about the popular releases of today. Thirdly, if my invention The Universal Natural Bowstring Release had have come
out in the sixties, when the compounds were starting to be accepted, there wouldn't be such a variety of aids that you see today.

I'm not "bad-mouthing" these devices, after all, they are the major reason that the sport of archery has grown so much (2016 ASA survey - 21,600,000 bowhumters in the US). That being said, they also have contributed towards the demise of the Trad Way, by the nature of their design and use. Best guesstimation of how many Trads are in that survey is 1/4 to 1/3, depending on who you talk to.

Now, my contribution to Trad Archery is a device that is used as if the archer had no device in the shooting hand. It has no triggers, no thumb depressors, or, pinkie-pulls, and, there's no twisting or rotating of the device to execute the releasing of the bowstring. You just relax the fingers, just as the archery instructors teach, to avoid the unwanted "plucking" of the bowstring. "Release Tha' Release" See videos on my Facebook Page - Hart of Archery.

My invention will give the Trad more time to work on "quality" practice time, and, most importantly provide for more arrows being shot, while having more fun.

I'll be at The Vegas Shoot on February 8 thru 11, and if anyone from this site comes to my booth and greets me by saying, "Release Tha' Release", I'll give you a special discount off of the Natural Universal Bowstring Release and/or an arrowhead choker that I design, make, and sell.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:05 PM   #66
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How is me doing my best to be successful being anything but that? Just trying to be successful.
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Old 12-31-2017, 12:49 PM   #67
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My last reply, and I'm out of this topic.

I am a Traditional Archer, and a Traditional Bowhunter.
Archer "First". Bowhunter "Second".

Why archer first you ask?
The answer is - "Because" I am a Traditional Bowhunter, I want to be as proficient with my equipment as I can possibly be "before" going after live game, and that mean lots of practice/shooting at non living targets I.E. "archery".

All of my shooting revolves entirely around being prepared for the hunt.

In my humble opinion, there are way to many folks who worry way to much about what they, or their equipment looks like, and not nearly enough about how well they can shoot that equipment.

Traditional Archer/Traditional Bowhunter for life, regardless of what someone else thinks.

Rick
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:26 PM   #68
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Rick's mention of practicing archery to be the best traditional bowHUNTER possible reminds me of a competition event that strives to simulate this concept. In the International Bowhunter's Organization (IBO) Mid-America Traditional Competition -- held at my home club the Austin Archery Club -- a couple of years ago, there was a category labeled Traditional Hunter, I believe. Competitors could use any traditional bow -- recurve, longbow or selfbow -- but a key aspect called for using arrows that weighed at least 10 grains per pound of stated draw weight for one's bow. I also know that I always use my same hunting set-up (of heavy arrows) for all 3D shoots, as does Bisch on here and, I imagine others as well. Point is to try and simulate a little bit of pressure similar to a hunting shot via competition in shooting at foam animals' vitals for score instead of at real animals for meat. Like many sports, peer competition is part of it, but you're really shooting against yourself, trying to be the best you can be.
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:36 PM   #69
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Most of the guys I know use the same setup for targets as they do for hunting, they just change out the points. I just have not seen much evidence of the "Target archery ideology has overshadowed and for the most part replaced the original concept of traditional, changing it to a technology-based concept to maximize efficiency/convenience".
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:18 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Fields View Post
Most of the guys I know use the same setup for targets as they do for hunting, they just change out the points. I just have not seen much evidence of the "Target archery ideology has overshadowed and for the most part replaced the original concept of traditional, changing it to a technology-based concept to maximize efficiency/convenience".
That may be because you are shooting 3D in competition and not FITA.

I saw a drop in bow poundage after everyone started shooting 3D. Years ago most of us shot over 50 lbs. After everyone started shooting 3D most could not go 30-50+ targets with that kind of weight.

That and we all got old.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:27 AM   #71
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You are thinking way to much to make the shot you are trying to make.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:19 AM   #72
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For 50 years nothing has really changed for me.
It is still all about putting one arrow right where I want it, when the pressure is on.
To tell the truth the satisfaction is the same whether it is a Deer, squirrel or 3-d target with a bunch of buddies
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:21 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by M.E.B. View Post
That may be because you are shooting 3D in competition and not FITA.

I saw a drop in bow poundage after everyone started shooting 3D. Years ago most of us shot over 50 lbs. After everyone started shooting 3D most could not go 30-50+ targets with that kind of weight.

That and we all got old.
I shoot 3d and also indoor winter league, and use my hunting set-up. Twenty-five years ago I was shooting a 65-lb longbow, fifteen years ago it was 55 lbs. Today, in light of having passed my 70th birthday I'm shooting 45lbs. I didn't decrease my poundage because of 3d, I did it in deference to my ageing body.
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:46 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Fields View Post
I shoot 3d and also indoor winter league, and use my hunting set-up. Twenty-five years ago I was shooting a 65-lb longbow, fifteen years ago it was 55 lbs. Today, in light of having passed my 70th birthday I'm shooting 45lbs. I didn't decrease my poundage because of 3d, I did it in deference to my ageing body.


Like I said "And we all got old."

I believe our ranks as a whole are getting older. We need new blood in the sport which means we will have to recruit from the compound shooters.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:28 AM   #75
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I know I said I was out of this one, but what I am about to say is from the heart, and I just had to share it, then I am "really" out of this one.



I'm not ashamed of the moniker. I guess maybe that's because my first introduction to it was an offering of complement, and it remained so for a very long time.

I didn't start seeing animosity toward it for many years, and I quickly realized that animosity was largely self inflicted due to less than savory/negative attitudes among our ranks.

That negative attitude was/is, directed as much (maybe more) toward each other as it is toward those outside our ranks.

It makes me "SAD" when I witness it.

I've tried my best to hold my head up, and combat/put off that attitude/image (because it's a false image), and I will wear the handle proudly until the day I die.

My view of what Traditional Archery & Traditional Bowhunting encompasses is rooted in:

(1) Over 50 years of participation in, and observance of the sports,

(2) My delving into the history of the sports, and what they were long before my existence,

AND

(3) My "Utmost Respect & Admiration" of/for ALL those across the "Entire Spectrum".

Traditional Archery/Bowhunter for life, and darn proud of it.

Happy New Year !!!!!

Rick
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Old 01-01-2018, 03:43 PM   #76
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Yeah see that's where I agree with Retsbrew. I think once you add adjustable sights, stabilizers or those types of things you have dilute it so bad it's diminished to me.

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Old 01-01-2018, 03:59 PM   #77
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All the wheels and cams dog is change the amount of leverage to push the arrow. Yes that may extend the effective energy range of the arrow but the sights, rests and other technology allows for shooting accuracy most anyone can master. Add a mechanical release and a person whose never shot a bow can be accurate in just a shooting session or two. I killed my first bow deer with a compound shooting split finger with a glove.

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Old 01-03-2018, 08:35 AM   #78
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Ha, Rick's 'big umbrella' theory is funny as a cartoon but I think DRT's suggestion is more relevant to the point...that the more logical aspects of the issue center around the devilish details of the equipment, their function and heritage.

For example, let's place two bows on the table and compare them.

One is an American semi-longbow, a Hill style (pick a brand, they were all fairly similar). Leather rest, leather sideplate, leather grip, B-50 or linen string...a simple setup by most measures. It resembles an early target bow (all EARLY target bows were SIMPLE in design) but is mostly known for it's warring/hunting applications. Some wood arrows lay next to it, of the type commonly used before wheeled compounds and their carbon arrow counterparts, the latter having been specifically designed for taking advantage of the compound's new technology/efficiency. The simple bow and wood arrow share the same essential characteristics and theme...simple in design and operation, not much technology involved, wrapped in historical richness and remembered much as traditional values are remembered and passed down between generations. As a visual aid for the theme I suppose Rick's stickman (minus the umbrella, lol) might work, or Robin Hood, or Howard Hill, or...I think you get the picture.

Now lets go to the second table. There we find a typical olympic or FITA-style setup used for formal target shooting...maybe ILF foam limbs, Uukha or Hoyt machined metal riser, Shibuya or Fuse Carbon stabilizer, Doinker v-bar, some Win & Win flat weights, pehaps a SF damper and Flex or X-Spot cushion plunger. And a latest-technology string, of materials that change with frequency. The arrows next to it are super slim carbon composites with the minimal fletch design required for serious competition/accuracy/precision shooting typical under formal competitive shooting venues. For a visual aid to theme, see the olympic trials on YouT**b.

You then step away from the two tables and invite the general public to check them out (maybe with a brief explanation of what each set of items are typically used for, and why) and then ask each person to write on a piece of paper the setup that for them best represents the idea of what traditional archery is all about.

I think we all know (but might not want to admit) what the likely outcome/tally would be when the pieces of paper are collected. I don't think any of the pieces of paper would have a drawing of a big umbrella on it, or say the table contents are both equally traditional, or reflect that they seem pretty much equal.

They are not the same, and one of these setups doesn't come close to passing a straight-face test with regard to what traditional archery is known for and typically represents. Not in function, and not in any continuing or real sense of shared tradition. It's not difficult to see why each of these 'archerys' needs it's own identity, and how giving each of them that distinction (without one hogging the public eye and overcoming the characteristics and past accomplishments of the other) can be beneficial to both.

It's not a matter that one is good and one is bad. It's not about 'choosing sides' or getting angry for one or against the other. I think it's about being rational in how we look at target and traditional archery, and honest with ourselves about the clear differences that exist.

Last edited by Retsbew; 01-03-2018 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:47 AM   #79
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So are wood/fiberglass composites to modern for you? Recurve bows or take down models too technical? What about the fact crossbows were in use hundreds of years before compounds? Maybe they are traditional.

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Old 01-03-2018, 08:50 AM   #80
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I shoot carbon arrows because they work and I trust them. I shoot bows others made because they are beautiful and they shoot well for me. I'm not an engineer so I can't tell you why each is built the way it is. But I consider them traditional. For me, that's enough.

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Old 01-03-2018, 08:51 AM   #81
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You're right back to what your opinion of traditional archery is. Metal risers, stablizers, sights, non-wood arrows, elevated rests - all were in use well before the invention of the compound. There is nothing hypocritical in the use of either under the umbrella of traditional.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:59 AM   #82
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Obviously anyone can shoot whatever equipment they want (provided it's legal) and call it whatever name they want (modern, traditional, Orville, Auntie Wrinklepants, whatever). I'm just suggesting that referring to modern archery tackle as 'traditional' is like calling a brand new Porche an antique car. The logic and credibility of that approach simply isn't there, but then what does that have to do with anything these days.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:17 AM   #83
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With all due respect, what I get from your posts is that if I don't agree with you is that I'm hypocritical.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:20 AM   #84
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I think it depends on when you started. I started over 20 years ago, and I still pretty much hunt that way, but if someone starts bow hunting tomorrow, I'm sure they would start with the more updated gear and go from there.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:28 AM   #85
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Whether you agree or disagree with me makes no difference, opinions are what they are. My own, and one that is neither an insult to you or a forced requirement at any level. is simply that including today's target archery mindset and equipment under the same umbrella as what has been regarded in past practice as traditional archery makes no sense...just as it makes no sense to regard a new sports car as an antique car and pretend there is no real difference between the two. Your perception is your own, and you are entitled to it just as I am to mine. It's just food for thought in a chat forum.

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Old 01-03-2018, 10:08 AM   #86
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OK, pre war, post war, either way back then it was just called archery. I for one still call it archery, without any walls. IMO, one has to hone their skills to shoot any archery style in order to be proficient. We have a member here (several actually) that has practiced enough to hit a ping pong ball at 80-100 yards with a compound and then pick up their recurve or longbow and hit a tennis ball at 20-30 yards. It's the Indian shooting the bow and always has been.

I can use my youngest son as a "Traditional" shooter for example. He can take his ILF Recurve (no sights) with carbon arrows and put up some nice groups. He can also do the exact same groups with a Selfbow that our Friend Arvin Weaver made for him. Once again, it's the Indian behind the bow.

I am lucky to have "Trad" friends along with "Conventional" friends. Yep, we may make a friendly jest here and there but it is all in fun because they know I can shoot their bow also, lol. Basically it all comes down to how seriously one wants to shoot well, no matter the style. I personally believe the www is mostly responsible for numbers of truly great "Traditional" shooters today. YouTube, TBH, Leatherwall and many others are great resources to help one to get started in Archery. We are lucky here in Texas to have TBoT that is a well ran organization dedicated to "Traditional" archery. Once again, the comradery far out shadows the completion at any 3D shoot I have ever been to.

Me, well I don't care what title I'm given. I just always hope that I can help out anytime someone needs help, just as many others have helped me over the years.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:21 AM   #87
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So what defines modern vs traditional?
Era? Style? Materials?

Was the recurve considered modern over the longbow?
How about the horse-bow? Now that was a technological advancement?
Would the flatbow shooter think the Holmegaard was a threat to his tradition?
As a "three under" shooter I can feel the eyes of the "split finger" crowd glaring at me.

The only thing hypocritical that I can see is one person trying to categorize the all encompassing sport of archery.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:35 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retsbew View Post
Obviously anyone can shoot whatever equipment they want (provided it's legal) and call it whatever name they want (modern, traditional, Orville, Auntie Wrinklepants, whatever). I'm just suggesting that referring to modern archery tackle as 'traditional' is like calling a brand new Porche an antique car. The logic and credibility of that approach simply isn't there, but then what does that have to do with anything these days.
I think we've left the idea of hypotheticals and high level discussion of what "traditional" means... yada... yada... yada...

I think it is important to understand the audience that is reading this post and the arena this conversation is taking place in... allow me a moment to break it down from my perspective:

TBH Traditional Forum

TBH = Texas Bowhunter. Let's break it down to Texas and Bowhunter.

Texas... doesn't mean you have to live here, but it should be a safe assumption that folks on here have a connection to Texas. In Texas, we have this history of being the frontier and a melting pot of folks who just do things their own way. We are not the North, we are not the South... we are Texas. For those of us who have been raised reading up on Texas history, it is really a no brainer to know why we even hunt the way we do. Heck... Texas has something like over 9 distinct eco-systems and the means/methods just vary and understandably so if you drive all 9 "corners" of our state. Again, I don't mean you have to be a Texan... we have plenty of folks who live out of state... but who come down to Texas to hunt... because well... it's Texas!

Bowhunter
... we are bowhunters here. The site is actually full of folks who don't hunt... or just hunt with a rifle... but it is a bowhunting site and for the most part, we really like to hunt around here. When it comes to hunting, people tend to loosen concept of "purity" of "sport" or "competition" as they go out and want to kill things within their own skill or comfort zone.

Now we get to the 3rd qualifier... "Traditional"... This is the portion of this site, the minority by the way, where folks who are pretty much wanting to hunt with something other than a compound or crossbow or gun come to talk about stick and string shooting. We got guys that started off in compounds and are trying out single stick and string... we got guys that knew nothing more than a single stick and string... we... just like our beautiful state.. are fairly diverse.

Forum... actually a subforum would be more precise... we are not Tradgang, Leatherwall, etc, etc, where we are a traditional forum. This is where guys who love Texas, who bowhunt here, and happen to shoot a stick and string hang out.

The hypocrisy you speak of... people getting wound up on Olympic style.. judging... all that jazz just aren't issues that this crowd tends to care about; especially when it comes to hunting. There are other more political fun topics to discuss (fences... I mean again, the first adjective is the most important... Texas... and fences are always a fun topic around these parts!) In fact, I think what gets people more riled up (as you have seen) is when somebody else insists that we should care about something that we feel isn't worth caring about. I don't mean that to be rude... but just pointing it out. Telling me I should care about what my fellow bowhunter calls traditional is just kinda something that doesn't make sense typically to this crowd that I've attempted to describe.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:57 AM   #89
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Retsbew if you don't mind how old are you?
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Old 01-04-2018, 09:52 AM   #90
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I don't think one's opinion should be restricted or measured by where they come from, live, how old they are or anything else that begs the question of what the heck that kind of thing has to do with the specific topic of conversation. Doing so deflects from the discussion and tends to promote defense strategies at a personal level (human nature), and no good comes of that.

I will say that I've hunted with bow and gun for over 50 years, in places/conditions that many here will probably never get to experience (and wouldn't want to, lol), and even won a few local plastic trophies along the way. I remember when the only targets were paper bullseyes on straw bales, target bows had no gadgets, compounds were cumbersome novelties and 'normal' hunting bows needed only a string, a wood arrow and instinctive shooting practice to make them work. I know very well what it feels like to stalk, kill, clean, drag out (what's an ATV??), butcher, eat and appreciate an animal, and I know how that compares to hitting a piece of foam or paper on a target course.

I hope that today's hunters who by choice or life situation must count video tapes and chat sites as their primary 'archery experience', can somehow grow to understand that traditional archery is real, well worth undertaking, and measured much more by what's in their heart and field time than by what repetitive punching of holes in foam or paper brings.

I'll leave this thread now and trust that regardless of where your interests lie (hunting with simple gear or target shooting with maximized precision), some may find discussions like this one worth thinking about.

Best of luck to all.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:06 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retsbew View Post
I don't think one's opinion should be restricted or measured by where they come from, live, how old they are or anything else that begs the question of what the heck that kind of thing has to do with the specific topic of conversation. Doing so deflects from the discussion and tends to promote defense strategies at a personal level (human nature), and no good comes of that.
.
I had a feeling you were going to take the "Are you from Texas" and MEB's "How old are you" questions the wrong way.

No... your opinion by no means should be restricted by where you are from...

But come on.... you sound like a fairly well read/educated guy... you have to know that where you are from... how long you have lived... where you have traveled makes a big difference in your opinion and more importantly your perspective that forms it. Your opinions are formed by your perspective and your perspective is shaped by where you live, what you listen to, and how old you are. Equally as important, the perspective of the audience will drive how well your question/message is received.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:57 PM   #92
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I killed 5 deer this season with a bow. 2 with trad bows and the other three with a compound. I don't feel like a hypocrite and I don't feel like a saint. I do feel like a man who's family will eat well and had a good time getting there. I'm glad there are discussions like this. Makes me look inside and learn more about me. I felt bad about having to switch to the compound this season. Between this converation and Bisch's issue I feel better about the choice I had to make. In the end they were all bow kills. And to me that's always a good thing.

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Old 01-05-2018, 04:13 PM   #93
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I only asked your age because during the 50’s before compounds there were rests, stabilizers, metal risers, sights etc.

I’ve only been doing this Trad stuff for 42 yrs so I’m still learning.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:32 AM   #94
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In answer to you original question, archers have been having these same conversations for over 60 years that I know of. The really only difference is we now have compounds and crossbows to include in the topic.

So no, I don't think so.

JC
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