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Old 03-07-2014, 10:09 AM   #1
Cathie
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Question Crossbows and 3D tournaments?

South Plains Archery Club as been approached to add a crossbow class to our tournaments. I have a few questions and need help to make our decision.

1.) Are any other clubs allowing crossbows?
2.) Are the targets holding up with crossbow use as advertised?
3.) Do you charge more for crossbow access than with compound bows?
4.) Have you had any accidents?
5.) Have you seen a decrease in memberships since adding crossbows or has it helped membership?

Any feedback you can offer is greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:46 AM   #2
DFWPI
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I don't have the answers you seek, but as a crossbow shooter....

I don't see any problems in my 3D target as far as it holding up to numerous shots. I believe it is the same as when I was shooting my compound.

Why would you charge more for crossbow access than compound bows?

Accidents will happen. Period. But with that said, it will happen with anything, not just crossbows. I've seen people shooting compounds before that have had accidents.

As for decrease/increase, have not seen anything but forum scuttle butt that would suggest anything otherwise.

There was a good article in the recent Bowhunting magazine I received that says crossbows are one of the hottest new things in archery. It went on to say that its like the AR problems that everybody was speaking of a couple of years ago when it was taboo for to hunt with an assault gun. It also talked about how the crossbow was around before the English longbow in terms of traditional.
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Old 03-07-2014, 11:25 AM   #3
Cathie
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Thank you for your input.
We are just trying to find out what some of the other clubs are doing so we can make a decision. It was voted down at the meeting last night but because we have limited experience with crossbows we decided to look into it a bit further.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:00 PM   #4
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I don't know about any clubs that are allowing it, but ASA has a crossbow class at the pro ams. Target impact should be the same as compound bow usage, and I don't think it would be a good idea to charge more for xbow shooters.

It is all archery, and there is nothing to fear really, other than possibly safety concerns. And those can be addressed by having the xbow shooters not cock or load until they are at the stake, and they cannot use any aiming aids, such as bipods, or shooting sticks.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:05 PM   #5
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For what it's worth the ASA has a xbow class. I have never seen a xbow shooter at a 3d meet. I would welcome the change.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:05 PM   #6
Dusty Britches
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What Glenn said.

I've shot side by side with cross bow shooters and I really do not see any difference in their equipment than ours. they shoot from the 45 yard stake. Their bolts are not any bigger or go deeper into the targets. they do not tear up the targets anymore than compound archers.


But, you have the old fashioned people who are against it because it looks like rifle shooting. Old farts.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:20 PM   #7
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LOL we are just trying to form an educated opinion to the request since none of use shoot crossbows and none of us have been around them. Not saying they are good or bad. I was told last night that our local archery shop charges a lot more for crossbow to shoot on their range because they are harder on the targets and I've have an archery club president tell me that they allow them but the bolts go in deeper and have had a few people cut their targets to remove the bolt. From what I have learned crossbows normally shoot around 290 fps which would make the impact about the same as a compound bow. However the crossbow sales person told me some can shoot in the range of 400 fps which would lead me to believe they would penetrate deeper into the targets.

Its something to ponder for sure.....
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:36 PM   #8
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As a crossbow shooter I have done a few tournaments, and will say if I did not have the help from son who was helping me cock it I wouldn't have finished. If you don't allow a shooting stick thank about how tired you would be from cocking and holding something heavy

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Old 03-07-2014, 04:43 PM   #9
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Send a PM to Oneway. He is with Archers for Christ Archery Club in Paris. I do not know if they allow Xbows in the 3D shoots but they do have a xbow practice range set up.

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Old 03-07-2014, 04:56 PM   #10
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Only thing I could see being a pain is removing the bolt from the target.my grandfather shot my 3Ds and it was a mistake. Hard enough to pull my arrows, his were almost impossible. They are Rinehart and McKenzie targets.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:08 PM   #11
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I've heard that can be a problem.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:07 PM   #12
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One thing I have is a lube to put on arrow, made by Venom I believe. Using it and it was a lot easier than pulling arrows from my compound.
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:05 AM   #13
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I have not seen any xbow shooters at any of the tournaments I have been at.

Only way I would charge them more is if they tend to tear up targets worse (answered above) so no.

Accidents will happen, luckily I have not seen any accidents at a 3D other than back in the 80's a few bows exploded and caused some minor injury to the shooter. Hope I don't see or hear of any accidents at a 3D period

As far as not allowing shooting sticks, bipods etc that is ultimately up to club or sanctioning body rules.
I see several people shooting compounds or traditional that are wore out by the time they get to the last targets.

Having xbow shooters wait until at stake to cock and load would be the only way I would shoot around them. Just like waving a loaded gun around. From what I have understood you are not supposed to nock an arrow at 3D until at stake

I would think that you would see an increase in membership but there might be a few who don't like xbows not renew or not join
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Old 03-09-2014, 08:37 PM   #14
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If someone wants to carry that heavy sucker around bad crank on it for two hours more power to 'em
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Old 03-09-2014, 09:18 PM   #15
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We addressed this at Cowtown a year or so ago cause we had some interest. Joe Crawford contacted the target manufactures we use, Mckenzie for 3d and delta for bags, and we were told both will hold up the same as the faster compounds and xbows have about the same kinetic energy. We made a club decision to alloe them at club shoots as a fun shoot and would consider adding a class if we had enough interest, which we have not had as of yet. We do stress safe shooting practices when introducing all xbow folks as for not loading and cocking until it is their turn to fire at a target, keeping it pointed down range, etc. Hope this helps.

Last edited by hubbace; 03-09-2014 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:31 AM   #16
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Thank you for your response.
We use McKenzie and Delta targets too. Do they actually hold up to the xbows as far as you can tell?
The local archery shop only sold a handful last year so I doubt we will have enough interest to really make it worth while but you never know....

Do you get any complaints from the club members about allowing the xbows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbace View Post
We addressed this at Cowtown a year or so ago cause we had some interest. Joe Crawford contacted the target manufactures we use, Mckenzie for 3d and delta for bags, and we were told both will hold up the same as the faster compounds and xbows have about the same kinetic energy. We made a club decision to alloe them at club shoots as a fun shoot and would consider adding a class if we had enough interest, which we have not had as of yet. We do stress safe shooting practices when introducing all xbow folks as for not loading and cocking until it is their turn to fire at a target, keeping it pointed down range, etc. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathie View Post
.... our local archery shop charges a lot more for crossbow to shoot on their range because they are harder on the targets .......
I believe this is just a way to get more money from them. The bolts are shorter and look like they go deeper, but in reality, not any worse than compounds, as you already said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbace View Post
We addressed this at Cowtown a year or so ago cause we had some interest. Joe Crawford contacted the target manufactures we use, Mckenzie for 3d and delta for bags, and we were told both will hold up the same as the faster compounds and xbows have about the same kinetic energy. We made a club decision to alloe them at club shoots as a fun shoot and would consider adding a class if we had enough interest, which we have not had as of yet. We do stress safe shooting practices when introducing all xbow folks as for not loading and cocking until it is their turn to fire at a target, keeping it pointed down range, etc. Hope this helps.
Glad to see this. Every time I mention crossbows at our range you'd think they are going to tar and feather me.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:03 PM   #18
hubbace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathie View Post
Thank you for your response.
We use McKenzie and Delta targets too. Do they actually hold up to the xbows as far as you can tell?
The local archery shop only sold a handful last year so I doubt we will have enough interest to really make it worth while but you never know....

Do you get any complaints from the club members about allowing the xbows?
Not really, but like I mentioned we have not had many come out. I think we had one club shoot last year someone did, had a few comments about his bolts pulling hard, but he was not using any arrow lube. We could not tell any difference in use during that shoot, any more wear than regular bows.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:35 PM   #19
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Awesome, thank you!
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:35 PM   #20
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Archers For Christ Has a Crossbow Class, we had 3 regs and all have had some sort of health issues here lately

Targets hold up just fine

People have their own opinions but we try to have a Class for everyone

No decrease in attendance at all
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:25 AM   #21
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The Tyler club has a croosbow class too, but no one has ever shot in it.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:08 AM   #22
Saltgrass Mikerr
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Saltgrass Archery Club is not opposed to a cross bow class.

The only problem I can think of is setting up shots that have the distance to make for a challenging shot for a crossbow.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:24 AM   #23
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Hi Cathie,
The Austin Archery Club does not allow crossbows, simply a liability issue. They are a weapon but so easy to learn and simple to use a child can do it. And that is the problem.

We have had reports of people buying crossbows, loading them and handing it to their children. Crossbows shoot just like a gun, and without proper training and control are just as dangerous.

Until we can find some way to control the risk the board decided to just not allow crossbows on the property.

Just for the record - I own and shoot crossbows in tournaments. I also compete against crossbows with longbows and recurves. Shooting Barebow there is no advantage.

I wish there was someway to control the risk because crossbows are a part of archery's history, and the new compound crossbows are works of art.

Anyone that has an idea on how to control the risk please let us know.

Have fun.

Don Ferguson
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Old 03-23-2014, 07:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistol View Post
The Tyler club has a croosbow class too, but no one has ever shot in it.
I'm an old fart......
I would hate to get caught behind a group of 5 that could not even start to crank there X-bow up until they were at the stake.

I go to the 3-D shoots to shoot not watch folks work on their bows
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buff View Post
I'm an old fart......
I would hate to get caught behind a group of 5 that could not even start to crank there X-bow up until they were at the stake.

I go to the 3-D shoots to shoot not watch folks work on their bows
You'd be surprised Buff. I can almost bet you even money, I can cock and load an arrow using my cocking rope at the stake and get a shot off within the time allowed by ASA, which is a challenge for some open shooters with tension releases. :-)
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:25 AM   #26
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I am no expert by any means (actually never been to a 3D tourney) but as long as the crossbow shooters were in their own class and follow all formerly mentioned safety guidelines, they should be able to have their own class.
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:08 AM   #27
jmark100
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We do not allow crossbows at Concho Valley Archery
This policy was established by a club vote.
The crossbows will do more damage on 3d targets and bag targets
See you Saturday
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:30 AM   #28
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Brazos County Archery Club recently voted to allow crossbows. I can't quote the rules off hand, but I believe they are posted on the club's website.
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:36 AM   #29
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There has been a crossbow class at ASA Pro/Am events for the last several years. Although the crossbow class at the Pro/Ams is not a large class everything has worked flawlessly. Mike Tyrell, ASA president and owner, reported that there does not appear to be any more wear on the targets from a crossbow bolt than an arrow shot from a compound. Here are the ASA crossbow rules.

Crossbow 40 yards, 330 FPS, 1/2 Known/1/2 Unknown

Crossbows must be in sound working condition with a functioning safety, and maintained in compliance with the manufacturer’s specifications. Scopes up to 6x power may be used and may be equipped with lines or mill dots, but no light or image may be projected and there may be no range finding capability. Except as may be required due to an approved medical exemption, crossbows may only be shot in a standing position and the use of any device or outside agency (including wrapping the sling around the arm, hooked butt-plates, palm rests, stabilizer bars or a prop stick) that allows the mass weight of the bow to be relieved from either arm or to steady the bow is prohibited, but the use of the forward elbow against the ribcage or side is permitted. Bolts must be identical in size and weight with a minimum of three (3) vanes. Crossbows may only be cocked and loaded while the shooter is at the stake, and while loaded it must remain pointed down range at all times.

We have not ever had any crossbow competitors at an Texas ASA event although I have had some calls from shooters showing an interest to compete. As I stated in an email to all Texas ASA clubs earlier this year.....If a crossbow competitor does show up at an ASA sanctioned event the club must let them compete. All ASA classes must be included in an ASA sanctioned event.
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Old 04-14-2015, 10:39 AM   #30
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This is a portion of what was sent out to BCAC members:

Our club has elected to use ASA rules and guidelines for the safe use of crossbows. ASA has had a crossbow class for several years and we respect their experience and expertise in this area.

First, crossbows must not exceed the speed limit of 330 feet per second and must shoot from at least the 40 yard stake. We will chronograph all crossbow shooters at every shoot!

Second rule - like shooting any bow - crossbows cannot be loaded with a bolt until the shooter is on the stake and it cannot be drawn until the shooter is ready to shoot at the target. This is not any different than any other bow shooter.

Third - the crossbow must be pointed downrange at all times. Again, this is no different than any other bow shooter.

Forth - Except as may be required due to an approved medical exemption, crossbows may only be shot in a standing position and the use of any device or outside agency (including wrapping the sling around the arm, hooked butt-plates, palm rests, stabilizer bars or a prop stick) that allows the mass weight of the bow to be relieved from either arm or to steady the bow is prohibited, but the use of the forward elbow against the ribcage or side is permitted. This means that a child or anyone else who cannot lift the crossbow cannot shoot it. We don't allow bow shooters to support the bow in any fashion either, so it is the same rule.
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Old 04-14-2015, 02:31 PM   #31
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I've seen in the rules that there is a crossbow class. Never saw anyone using one. I thought about it and decided not to.

There's a couple of reasons I don't shoot a crossbow in 3D:
1) most bowhunters I know kind of have a thing about crossbows and I don't want to be 'that guy'. There's enough things for people to find to complain about. No point throwing gas on the fire.
2) the guys who run our club are friends of mine and I don't want to tear up their 3D targets - those things cost a fortune.

Last edited by JP135; 04-14-2015 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:01 PM   #32
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Cowtown spoke to the target manufacturers a few years ago after TPWD made crossbows standard archery equipment for hunting as we had a fair amount of new prospective members asking if they could shoot them at our club and events. After both Delta and McKenzie reported that a crossbow arrow, will not damage a bag or 3D target any more than an arrow from most modern compound bows, we as a board spoke it over and came to the decision that we would allow them. We have not have many at club events, and the biggest issue has been people not lubing their arrows, as it is just as difficult to remove as an arrow shot out of a compound but even more so due to shorter length. We have not seen any significant target damage, nor have we had any safety issues, as all crossbow shooters are reminded of standard safety, such as cocking and loading the bow until it is your turn to shoot and aiming downrange at all times. You would not nock and draw an arrow in any other bow until that moment, so it really is not rocket science.

There is a lot of taboo to crossbows, but if you think about it, those that say it is not really archery, but yet still shoot wheels bows, are ignoring the fact that the stick shooters sometimes think the same thing about us compound hunter guys. Releases, let off, etc. So I guess it really is a matter of inclusion to me. The more the merrier, and as long as everyone is safe, and can have a great time, Cowtown welcomes you. :-)
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:04 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmark100 View Post
We do not allow crossbows at Concho Valley Archery
This policy was established by a club vote.
The crossbows will do more damage on 3d targets and bag targets
See you Saturday
We @ Cowtown have not had any extra target wear on bags or 3D targets via crossbows, and I believe if you host an ASA Qualifier, you have to let them shoot if they show up, per email we received from mike at the start of the year.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:00 PM   #34
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Bump

Cathie, I'm a new member here and have been hunting the past 3 seasons with a crossbow and love it. In fact I like so much that I am looking for venues to compete in 3D with my crossbow. My reason for bringing this thread to the top again is to find out if you folks decided to let crossbows in or not, as I am within a couple hours of Lubbock and would certainly make the drive to compete.

Thanks
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:55 PM   #35
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Doubt the interest is 'really' there but I could be wrong. Wish they did so I could drag my xbow shootin' dad to them with me and laugh at our misfortunes together.
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:55 PM   #36
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We (BCAC) have a few regulars who shoot crossbows, and there were crossbow shooters at most, if not all, of the ASA qualifiers I went to last year. I can only recall one qualifier where they weren’t allowed, and that was due to a city ordinance which the club was bound by.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:02 AM   #37
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Damage depends on the KE they are putting out.
Shot with some crossbow guys in team shoot at ASA Pro Am.
They were all over 100lbs of KE sticking in target deeper and harder to pull.
It has to wear on the targets more.
That being said, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:40 AM   #38
Dusty Britches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathie View Post
South Plains Archery Club as been approached to add a crossbow class to our tournaments. I have a few questions and need help to make our decision.

1.) Are any other clubs allowing crossbows?
2.) Are the targets holding up with crossbow use as advertised?
3.) Do you charge more for crossbow access than with compound bows?
4.) Have you had any accidents?
5.) Have you seen a decrease in memberships since adding crossbows or has it helped membership?

Any feedback you can offer is greatly appreciated.
Brazos County opened up to crossbows a few years ago because several people requested it. We've had a few come out, but not as many as we thought would.

To answer your questions:
2.) Are the targets holding up with crossbow use as advertised? Yes, absolutely. ASA crossbow class is a 40 yard class and we use their rules. My problem with xbow shooters is they don't lube their bolts so they are harder to pull out. As far as deeper penetration... I don't know about that. The bolts are not nearly as long as arrows so it is hard to judge by looking at the part not in the target.

3.) Do you charge more for crossbow access than with compound bows? No. But we do require they maintain the speed limits at all times, even if just shooting the bag targets.

4.) Have you had any accidents? No. Like archery equipment, they cannot be loaded until they are ready to shoot. They must follow all safety protocols outlined in the ASA rules.

5.) Have you seen a decrease in memberships since adding crossbows or has it helped membership? No impact. Several members were concerned about the sound until they actually heard a crossbow being shot. It is a different sound, but not any louder than old compound bows.

When we adopted the crossbow class, we also created a new rule - absolutely no spears! Granted they might be safe, but the size of them really tears up the targets.

I know Buffalo Field has had difficulty in getting the city to allow them to allow crossbows, but it was a non-issue with the city of Bryan. Their response was, is it safe and does the insurance policy cover it? Our answer to both questions is - Yes.

Last edited by Dusty Britches; 01-10-2018 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:48 AM   #39
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Part of the resistance to crossbows seems to be the thought that they are for people "too lazy to learn to shoot a bow properly". I suppose that may be the case with some but keep in mind there are a lot of long time archers who can no longer draw a bow because of physical infirmities. Crossbows are a way for them to stay connected to a pastime they love - I don't see any reason to exclude them.
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:55 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowhuntntxn View Post
I don't know about any clubs that are allowing it, but ASA has a crossbow class at the pro ams. Target impact should be the same as compound bow usage, and I don't think it would be a good idea to charge more for xbow shooters.

It is all archery, and there is nothing to fear really, other than possibly safety concerns. And those can be addressed by having the xbow shooters not cock or load until they are at the stake, and they cannot use any aiming aids, such as bipods, or shooting sticks.
^^^ This
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:07 AM   #41
Drycreek3189
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I know very little about crossbows except this: I gave a friend of mine a Cabelas 3D deer target to practice on (with a Wicked Ridge crossbow) and at 20 yards the bolt would go completely through it. Moving back to 30 yards had the bolt buried so deeply he had to push it through and pull it out the back. Admittedly, a cheap Cabelas target is not as good as a range quality target, just food for thought.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:36 AM   #42
hubbace
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Location: Cowtown Bowmen Archery Club
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The add, with a few years under our belt at Cowtown Bowmen Archery Club in Ft Worth, allowing Crossbows at all of our shoots [with the exception of the traditional only shoots], and I can tell you, personally shooting xbow class in ASA for 2 years now, as long as you lube your arrows, no issues. Cheaper made targets may be an issue, but when we adopted the change 3 years ago, we spoke to reps from Delta and McKenzie and both told us that xbows shooting at the allowed speeds [per ASA] dfo not damage their modern targets any more than the high speed compounds that they are making now days. Also to address safety. When we adopted the change, there were some that wanted new additional rules, but after further discussion, we all realized, Standard Safety Practices already dictate that, we just had to be more vocal and evident enforcing them. Like making sure all shooters understood they were not to draw their string and/or load an arrow prior to being their turn to shoot and standing at the stake. Once we did this, we have had zero issues. On one instance, I had to stop a xbow shooter who was beginning to cock his xbow using a crank, while sitting behind the shooters taking their turn at the target, but once he understood the reasoning behind the rules and best practices, he was on board and had no further issues. :-) A group of us at Cowtown regularly shoot xbow at ASA, Deerman and club level, and we do not take any extra time at the stake, in fact we practiced to make sure we would be able to do so within the rules time limits and you'd be surprised how hard it is to hold that heavy xbow up any longer than you have to. And yes, drawing it 30 times is sometimes fun. Especially in July championship shoots. :-) ASA has Xbow class at all qualifiers and even though the Deerman does not list it, Jimmy is more than willing to let you shoot in his events. Hope this updated info helps.

If anyone has any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly at hubbace@live.com and I will be more than happy to help.
Thank you, Chuck.
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