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Old 05-16-2018, 05:06 AM   #51
Goldeneagle
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Back when George Bush was moving to Dallas, I got pulled over on the way to work one morning. It was a Dallas PD and 2 secret service agents. I got questioned about what I was doing in the area at 2:30 in the morning. They searched my truck and I was on my way. A little bit of a delay, but no big deal.
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:16 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by xman59 View Post
so you prefer to itentionally waste their time because you think it is funny?
I'd argue who's wasting whose time here

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Old 05-16-2018, 07:17 AM   #53
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I got pulled over one time with a buddy in my truck when I was driving to go to work offshore. My buddy was black. The officer asked if he could search my truck after he pulled both of us out and questioned us separately about where we were going. I told the officer no. He asked what I had to hide. I said nothing....but you are going to drag all my crap out of the truck and leave it for me to put up once you have wasted all our time. He let us go and said good day.

Can't help put think he pulled us over just because my passenger was black. I was doing 72 in a 70. Never been asked to step out, or if I can have my vehicle searched since that day.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:02 AM   #54
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That would be a big no. Sad how many are more then willing to throw their rights away.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:06 AM   #55
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P: "Sir, do you consent to me searching your vehicle?"

M: "No."
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:14 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by CrookedArrow View Post
Ok I will play. What about an open air search with a K-9?
Look up Rodriquez V US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrig..._United_States
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:14 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by rockyraider View Post
What's your question, I'm not following? What about searching a vehicle, sometimes its lawful, other times its not. Just FYI, having a DL and operating a vehicle on the basis of being a privilege and not a right has nothing to do with vehicle searches and the 4th Amendment.

If you are asking if we would allow a random search of our vehicle's without probable cause, my answer would be "no". I'm a PO and I would not submit to the search of my vehicle on the side of the road during a typical traffic stop. I have asked for consent to search thousands of vehicles during my career, if someone says no and I have nothing else, I don't take it personally. Its your right as a US citizen.
Thanks. Exactly my thinking too.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:21 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by bentman View Post
I got pulled over in Ne coming out of Co , Leo said I was driving eradic . I ask him if my eradic driving was on his dash cam, of course he said. Then he wants to search my truck I told him if he gets a warrant he can search whatever the warrant allows , he got really mad then called for a drug dog. 30 min later the dog arrives , I tell the officer that im going to film so they don't command the dog to do a false positive. Now they are both ******. The dog did not hit on anything. I now ask how long it will take for him to get a warrant while I'm laughing at him, he is really really mad now. After a few more choice words are exchanged he tells me to hurry up and get out of Ne.
That was a violation of your rights. Took too long to get dog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrig..._United_States
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:49 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
That was a violation of your rights. Took too long to get dog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrig..._United_States
this was a k9 officer that stopped the car and chose to wait for his backup before performing his k9 search. from reading the no doubt credible wikipedia page you provided, it sounds like the officer may not have articulated his reasonable suspicion for wanting to search well enough for the courts.

the last time i ran my dog and searched a car before my backup got there turned in to me watching the driver of the car running through a field and into some woods and never being seen again because i had to stay with his buddy (who didnt try to get away) and the 5lbs of meth i just found in the trunk. nothing worse than a k9 officer watching a suspect running through about 200 yards of open field with his partner on lead and not being able to deploy him.

i havent had a dog in 3 years, i am sure flyby could answer this better but it didnt matter how long it took me to get there, even if i was being called out of bed in the middle of the night, as long as reasonable suspicion can be articulated and the call to the k9 was made within a reasonable time within the stop, and after being called i made every effort to get there promptly.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:01 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by jshouse View Post
this was a k9 officer that stopped the car and chose to wait for his backup before performing his k9 search. from reading the no doubt credible wikipedia page you provided, it sounds like the officer may not have articulated his reasonable suspicion for wanting to search well enough for the courts.

the last time i ran my dog and searched a car before my backup got there turned in to me watching the driver of the car running through a field and into some woods and never being seen again because i had to stay with his buddy (who didnt try to get away) and the 5lbs of meth i just found in the trunk. nothing worse than a k9 officer watching a suspect running through about 200 yards of open field with his partner on lead and not being able to deploy him.

i havent had a dog in 3 years, i am sure flyby could answer this better but it didnt matter how long it took me to get there, even if i was being called out of bed in the middle of the night, as long as reasonable suspicion can be articulated and the call to the k9 was made within a reasonable time within the stop, and after being called i made every effort to get there promptly.
So your telling me Rodriquez V USA is not real because I gave a wiki page? Really? I doubt their info also occasionally. OK...
How about this one?
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...-9972_p8k0.pdf
Did they not go over this at the academy? Reasonable amount of time. 30 mins is too long to wait for a K9.

Hey I am glad LEO do their jobs and it is a job I do not want. I pray for my son every day he leaves for work with that badge on that he comes home safe. But from my point of view...Rules are rules and laws are laws. Where does one set of laws become MORE righteous that another set of laws? Why would a honest LEO want to trick or lie(its legal) someone out of their rights?
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:06 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by rockyraider View Post
What's your question, I'm not following? What about searching a vehicle, sometimes its lawful, other times its not. Just FYI, having a DL and operating a vehicle on the basis of being a privilege and not a right has nothing to do with vehicle searches and the 4th Amendment.

If you are asking if we would allow a random search of our vehicle's without probable cause, my answer would be "no". I'm a PO and I would not submit to the search of my vehicle on the side of the road during a typical traffic stop. I have asked for consent to search thousands of vehicles during my career, if someone says no and I have nothing else, I don't take it personally. Its your right as a US citizen.
Yep. Thread should have ended right here as this post is spot on.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:10 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by CrookedArrow View Post
Ok I will play. What about an open air search with a K-9?
Thats a completely different issue altogether. You aren't in the same ballpark. Open air does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy whereas a persons vehicle does. There are plenty of SCOTUS cases addressing this. However, an open air search with a K-9 could lead to a search of a vehicle if all steps are done properly. One does not have to consent to a search of their vehicle and a law enforcement officer cannot legally just decide to search it as a method of harassment. He can certainly search it whenever he wants and if he was getting antsy and touching his weapon after I told him no, I wouldn't fight him. I would simply state that I did not consent to his search and anything he found would be subject to being barred from evidence as "fruit of the poisonous tree."
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:14 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
So your telling me Rodriquez V USA is not real because I gave a wiki page? Really? I doubt their info also occasionally. OK...
How about this one?
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...-9972_p8k0.pdf
Did they not go over this at the academy? Reasonable amount of time. 30 mins is too long to wait for a K9.

Hey I am glad LEO do their jobs and it is a job I do not want. I pray for my son every day he leaves for work with that badge on that he comes home safe. But from my point of view...Rules are rules and laws are laws. Where does one set of laws become MORE righteous that another set of laws? Why would a honest LEO want to trick or lie(its legal) someone out of their rights?
where did i say it wasnt real? i agree its real, and the suspect waited approx. 7-8mins for the dog to be deployed and alert to the odor of narcotics, according to wiki. is that too long?

can you really tell me this was handled incorrectly by the officer? the question here, like i said above, is did the officer articulate the reasonable suspicion he developed during the stop well enough to substantiate the search...

Officer Struble, a KĖ9 officer, stopped petitioner Rodriguez for driving
on a highway shoulder, a violation of Nebraska law. After Struble attended
to everything relating to the stop, including, inter alia, checking
the driverís licenses of Rodriguez and his passenger and issuing a
warning for the traffic offense, he asked Rodriguez for permission to
walk his dog around the vehicle. When Rodriguez refused, Struble
detained him until a second officer arrived. Struble then retrieved
his dog, who alerted to the presence of drugs in the vehicle. The ensuing
search revealed methamphetamine. Seven or eight minutes
elapsed from the time Struble issued the written warning until the
dog alerted.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:17 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by boh347 View Post
Pfffff let them search my vehicle any day theyíll never find anything there. Now if they ask to search my anus thatís a different story.









J/k
That'll cost em a nice seafood dinner.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:29 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by jshouse View Post
where did i say it wasnt real? i agree its real, and the suspect waited approx. 7-8mins for the dog to be deployed and alert to the odor of narcotics, according to wiki. is that too long?

can you really tell me this was handled incorrectly by the officer? the question here, like i said above, is did the officer articulate the reasonable suspicion he developed during the stop well enough to substantiate the search...

Officer Struble, a KĖ9 officer, stopped petitioner Rodriguez for driving
on a highway shoulder, a violation of Nebraska law. After Struble attended
to everything relating to the stop, including, inter alia, checking
the driverís licenses of Rodriguez and his passenger and issuing a
warning for the traffic offense, he asked Rodriguez for permission to
walk his dog around the vehicle. When Rodriguez refused, Struble
detained him until a second officer arrived. Struble then retrieved
his dog, who alerted to the presence of drugs in the vehicle. The ensuing
search revealed methamphetamine. Seven or eight minutes
elapsed from the time Struble issued the written warning until the
dog alerted.
You did say "no doubt credible wiki link". I took it as if you did not believe. Apologies if I took that wrong.
I think 7-8 mins is reasonable time, heck even 30 to get the bad guys. But SCOTUS ruled against the officer right? The LEO may not have, as you said articulated the way he should have to substantiate the search.
I am from a family of LE. Feds to local PD. I have no ill will towards LE, Fly a thin blue line flag at my place in Harper and at my properties in NY. Just used to playing devils advocate at family gatherings. Which how I learned of Rodriquez V USA
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:44 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by jshouse View Post
where did i say it wasnt real? i agree its real, and the suspect waited approx. 7-8mins for the dog to be deployed and alert to the odor of narcotics, according to wiki. is that too long?

can you really tell me this was handled incorrectly by the officer? the question here, like i said above, is did the officer articulate the reasonable suspicion he developed during the stop well enough to substantiate the search...

Officer Struble, a KĖ9 officer, stopped petitioner Rodriguez for driving
on a highway shoulder, a violation of Nebraska law. After Struble attended
to everything relating to the stop, including, inter alia, checking
the driverís licenses of Rodriguez and his passenger and issuing a
warning for the traffic offense, he asked Rodriguez for permission to
walk his dog around the vehicle. When Rodriguez refused, Struble
detained him until a second officer arrived. Struble then retrieved
his dog, who alerted to the presence of drugs in the vehicle. The ensuing
search revealed methamphetamine. Seven or eight minutes
elapsed from the time Struble issued the written warning until the
dog alerted.
The issue wasnít the elapsed time. The issue is can an officer continue to detain you after all business concerning the initial stop has been completed and no other reason to detain has arisen.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:49 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by elkaholic9292 View Post
I always understood the law to mean that one doesnít have the rights on a public road they do in a residence. No warrant needed. Itís public livery and you chose to use.
wrong, WRONG, WRONG.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:52 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by jshouse View Post
where did i say it wasnt real? i agree its real, and the suspect waited approx. 7-8mins for the dog to be deployed and alert to the odor of narcotics, according to wiki. is that too long?

can you really tell me this was handled incorrectly by the officer? the question here, like i said above, is did the officer articulate the reasonable suspicion he developed during the stop well enough to substantiate the search...

Officer Struble, a KĖ9 officer, stopped petitioner Rodriguez for driving
on a highway shoulder, a violation of Nebraska law. After Struble attended
to everything relating to the stop, including, inter alia, checking
the driverís licenses of Rodriguez and his passenger and issuing a
warning for the traffic offense, he asked Rodriguez for permission to
walk his dog around the vehicle. When Rodriguez refused, Struble
detained him until a second officer arrived. Struble then retrieved
his dog, who alerted to the presence of drugs in the vehicle. The ensuing
search revealed methamphetamine. Seven or eight minutes
elapsed from the time Struble issued the written warning until the
dog alerted.
A LEO dosen't have to have "permission" to walk his K-9 around a vehicle, don't know why he asked, or waited for the other officer.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:55 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Lawhunter View Post
Thats a completely different issue altogether. You aren't in the same ballpark. Open air does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy whereas a persons vehicle does. There are plenty of SCOTUS cases addressing this. However, an open air search with a K-9 could lead to a search of a vehicle if all steps are done properly. One does not have to consent to a search of their vehicle and a law enforcement officer cannot legally just decide to search it as a method of harassment. He can certainly search it whenever he wants and if he was getting antsy and touching his weapon after I told him no, I wouldn't fight him. I would simply state that I did not consent to his search and anything he found would be subject to being barred from evidence as "fruit of the poisonous tree."
I missed the part where the person was being harrassed by the nice officer?
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:06 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Roy Munson View Post
The issue wasn’t the elapsed time. The issue is can an officer continue to detain you after all business concerning the initial stop has been completed and no other reason to detain has arisen.
I agree, that's why I said the officer didn't do a good enough job of articulating his reasonable suspicion, or reason to further detain. If I searched a car it was because I had accumulated several items of suspicion during the course if my routine stop and could articulate them into my report as to why I wanted to search the car.

Also, I did not have to tell the suspect what these items were and often would not. Which could explain SOME of the "I got searched for no reason" stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DTala View Post
A LEO dosen't have to have "permission" to walk his K-9 around a vehicle, don't know why he asked, or waited for the other officer.
Agree he doesn't have to ask, but like my earlier example, I got caught running my dog by myself and had to watch 1 suspect escape because I couldn't leave the other suspect with the car and the dope.

It's also not safe at all to be running your dog and watching for an alert and making sure you are both out of traffic all while the suspect is standing in the ditch somewhere unsupervised. Always have a cover there to run your dog.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:22 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
I know all about Rodriguez. All my free air sniffs are done during the course of the traffic stop without extending it for the K9 sniff, unless there's RS or PC to extend.

I keep up with case law, because I don't want to be part of case law.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:26 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
That was a violation of your rights. Took too long to get dog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrig..._United_States
Might want to retract this statement. Rodriguez didn't occur until 2015. Prior to that case law said that detaining beyond the traffic stop for a short period of time to walk a dog around the car was not a problem. Additionally, if RS then no time limit as long as actively pursuing investigation (trying to get a dog). Need timeline and more details to come to your decision.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:32 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
So your telling me Rodriquez V USA is not real because I gave a wiki page? Really? I doubt their info also occasionally. OK...
How about this one?
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...-9972_p8k0.pdf
Did they not go over this at the academy? Reasonable amount of time. 30 mins is too long to wait for a K9.

Hey I am glad LEO do their jobs and it is a job I do not want. I pray for my son every day he leaves for work with that badge on that he comes home safe. But from my point of view...Rules are rules and laws are laws. Where does one set of laws become MORE righteous that another set of laws? Why would a honest LEO want to trick or lie(its legal) someone out of their rights?
I'm telling you Rodriguez case was 3 years ago, he's telling you he hasn't had a dog in 3 years, so obviously Rodriguez didn't apply when he last had a dog. I also just told you that prior to Rodriguez the courts allowed a short delay to walk the dog, saying it wasn't a problem. There is plenty of case law saying that if RS is developed there is essentially NO TIME limit as long as the officer is diligently attempting to achieve his purpose. Several cases that have concluded that if RS sometime even 3+ hours is acceptable.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:34 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by flyby View Post
Might want to retract this statement. Rodriguez didn't occur until 2015. Prior to that case law said that detaining beyond the traffic stop for a short period of time to walk a dog around the car was not a problem. Additionally, if RS then no time limit as long as actively pursuing investigation (trying to get a dog). Need timeline and more details to come to your decision.
That is what i was getting at, they (the court) always told us as long as the traffic stop was valid and once I got the call I made every effort to respond promptly, it didn't matter how long it took.

It was also up to the supervisor as to whether he would approve calling me and/or waiting if I wasn't readily available.

Last edited by jshouse; 05-16-2018 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:35 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyby View Post
Might want to retract this statement. Rodriguez didn't occur until 2015. Prior to that case law said that detaining beyond the traffic stop for a short period of time to walk a dog around the car was not a problem. Additionally, if RS then no time limit as long as actively pursuing investigation (trying to get a dog). Need timeline and more details to come to your decision.
Retracted because of time line You are correct.
Thank you for all you do. Seriously. Don't know how you cops do it with all the outhouse lawyers. I'm from a family full of LEO, from Feds to local PD. I have learned a lot just sitting at the table listening. I hope some walk away from this thread with correct knowledge of the topic and continue being useful, productive members of society.
Be safe Flyby and all LE.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:38 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
Retracted because of time line You are correct.
Thank you for all you do. Seriously. Don't know how you cops do it with all the outhouse lawyers. I'm from a family full of LEO, from Feds to local PD. I have learned a lot just sitting at the table listening. I hope some walk away from this thread with correct knowledge of the topic and continue being useful, productive members of society.
Be safe Flyby and all LE.
No harm no foul sir this is what forums are for.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:39 AM   #77
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Next time try this, it's foolproof- reach in your coat pocket for your shiney cell phone while yelling out- "no, I ain't gettin down on the ground."
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:42 AM   #78
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Okay, I was reading and replying to these posts in the order they were posted rather than reading to the end.

As said, Rodriguez did change things, but was only a short time ago. Those of us in LE keep up with case law. Those of us in K9 keep up with K9 case law (ever heard of Terry Fleck?). You said you found out about Rodriguez because you have family in LE- perfect example!!! Your family keeps up with case law!!! The story told about waiting 30 minutes for a dog- any idea what year that occurred? Any idea if the officers had developed RS prior to calling for a dog? Do you know alot more about the story than what was told? If no on the above questions your conclusion (rights violated) is inconclusive and very possibly wrong.

While typing this you posted above....thanks for the support and I hope your family stays safe. I enjoy these discussions because there's so many outhouse lawyers....some on this thread....spreading false info. That false info spreads....and I have to deal with it on the street.

Last edited by flyby; 05-16-2018 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:49 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Tony Pic View Post
Retracted because of time line You are correct.
Thank you for all you do. Seriously. Don't know how you cops do it with all the outhouse lawyers. I'm from a family full of LEO, from Feds to local PD. I have learned a lot just sitting at the table listening. I hope some walk away from this thread with correct knowledge of the topic and continue being useful, productive members of society.
Be safe Flyby and all LE.
No issues here. Good discussion and always happy to provide info.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:06 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by CrookedArrow View Post
Ok I will play. What about an open air search with a K-9?
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyby View Post
Okay, I was reading and replying to these posts in the order they were posted rather than reading to the end.

As said, Rodriguez did change things, but was only a short time ago. Those of us in LE keep up with case law. Those of us in K9 keep up with K9 case law (ever heard of Terry Fleck?). You said you found out about Rodriguez because you have family in LE- perfect example!!! Your family keeps up with case law!!! The story told about waiting 30 minutes for a dog- any idea what year that occurred? Any idea if the officers had developed RS prior to calling for a dog? Do you know alot more about the story than what was told? If no on the above questions your conclusion (rights violated) is inconclusive and very possibly wrong.

While typing this you posted above....thanks for the support and I hope your family stays safe. I enjoy these discussions because there's so many outhouse lawyers....some on this thread....spreading false info. That false info spreads....and I have to deal with it on the street.


Whats the latest on free air sniffs of homes? Our guys are no longer allowed to use them. Figured something happened. I left patrol 6 years ago and havnt kept up with it.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:25 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by CrookedArrow View Post
bukkskins thread got this one rolling. I am not giving my input just yet. Curious to see what yall have to say in reference to a search of your vehicle.

Some of you seem to know a bit more then others. One hint. Operating a motor vehicle in Texas or this Country is a privilege not a right. Hope that helps.
I hate that phrase. Driving my car is a right not a privilege. A free democratic govt/society does not afford privileges or rights. Our rights are guaranteed in the constitution as negative rights. "The govt shall not" not "The govt shall". Now it is a right that like most has been infringed upon through licensing and taxation by our ****hole govt but a privilege it is not. The thought process that the govt "allows" us to do something ****** me off so bad, makes me want to go all braveheart and ****
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:37 AM   #82
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Whats the latest on free air sniffs of homes? Our guys are no longer allowed to use them. Figured something happened. I left patrol 6 years ago and havnt kept up with it.
No longer allowed. Supreme Court case that originated in Florida.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:44 AM   #83
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I hate that phrase. Driving my car is a right not a privilege. A free democratic govt/society does not afford privileges or rights. Our rights are guaranteed in the constitution as negative rights. "The govt shall not" not "The govt shall". Now it is a right that like most has been infringed upon through licensing and taxation by our ****hole govt but a privilege it is not. The thought process that the govt "allows" us to do something ****** me off so bad, makes me want to go all braveheart and ****
Yep. Turn in your driver's license, tell DPS you don't need one. Spout this drivel every time you're stopped. See how that works out for you.

Show me where in The Constitution or the The Bill of Rights you are afforded the "right" to operate a motor vehicle on a public road (paid for by the people). The government has the right to appropriate taxes and build those roads, the government also has the right to regulate those roads.

Show me a court case that says requiring a driver's license to operate on public roadways is unconstitutional.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:45 AM   #84
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I hate that phrase. Driving my car is a right not a privilege. A free democratic govt/society does not afford privileges or rights. Our rights are guaranteed in the constitution as negative rights. "The govt shall not" not "The govt shall". Now it is a right that like most has been infringed upon through licensing and taxation by our ****hole govt but a privilege it is not. The thought process that the govt "allows" us to do something ****** me off so bad, makes me want to go all braveheart and ****
And to be clear- driving your car is a right, on private property. You can drive across your front yard all you want. And your neighbors as long as they don't object.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:50 AM   #85
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Because I use Ozonics, they have yet to find any of my cocaine and it's literally out in the open. Thanks, Ozonics!
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:13 PM   #86
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Because I use Ozonics, they have yet to find any of my cocaine and it's literally out in the open. Thanks, Ozonics!
Good luck to you! You do know that in high concentrations it will kill you eventually, right? AND, since I know what ozone smells like I can articulate reasonable suspicion to detain and investigate even if my dog doesn't alert.

I know, you were being funny. Just letting you know we know these tricks and how to work around them. :-}
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:15 PM   #87
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Show me where in The Constitution or the The Bill of Rights you are afforded the "right" to operate a motor vehicle on a public road (paid for by the people).
The Constitution and/or bill of rights doesn't afford us any rights. It guarantees our already God given rights.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:22 PM   #88
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No longer allowed. Supreme Court case that originated in Florida.
thank you sir.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:45 PM   #89
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The Constitution and/or bill of rights doesn't afford us any rights. It guarantees our already God given rights.
Technically, it protects the rights the founders believed to be God given rights.....so we agree mostly. God didn't list the rights given in the Bill of Rights....or not all specifically. Yes, we are on the same page, my wording wasn't correct. Still, nothing in the Bill of Rights, or the Bible, that gives anyone the "Right" to drive on public roadways.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:59 PM   #90
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Technically, it protects the rights the founders believed to be God given rights.....so we agree mostly. God didn't list the rights given in the Bill of Rights....or not all specifically. Yes, we are on the same page, my wording wasn't correct. Still, nothing in the Bill of Rights, or the Bible, that gives anyone the "Right" to drive on public roadways.
I didn't enter the right to drive debate, left that up to you fellers to hash out. And yes, you knew **** good and well what I was talking about regarding the bill of rights.

On the dog subject. I refuse a search so the officer brings out Fido. What's to stop the officer from just sayin the dog alerted, even though he didn't, and getting his way into my truck anyway? The officer already wants to search because he asked, I said no so therefore the officer thinks I have something to hide so of course, the dog alerted!!
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:03 PM   #91
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I have walked up on a GW standing in the back of my truck going through my coolers, twice. I guess that is okay?
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:03 PM   #92
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Because I use Ozonics, they have yet to find any of my cocaine and it's literally out in the open. Thanks, Ozonics!
If that really works I may get use one to cross some bologna over from Mexico
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:08 PM   #93
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I didn't enter the right to drive debate, left that up to you fellers to hash out. And yes, you knew **** good and well what I was talking about regarding the bill of rights.

On the dog subject. I refuse a search so the officer brings out Fido. What's to stop the officer from just sayin the dog alerted, even though he didn't, and getting his way into my truck anyway? The officer already wants to search because he asked, I said no so therefore the officer thinks I have something to hide so of course, the dog alerted!!
I have a body camera and vehicle camera. I have 10+ years in K9, 24+ in LE. I can show video on the dog alert, and articulate the dog alert. I can testify about thousands of training and real deal alerts in court. I can clearly explain in court how my dog alerts and relate that to the video. I can show documentation on every dog deployment I have had (thousands).

Or, I can get on the stand and perjure myself. I can get put in prison, lose my job, and lose my retirement. That's what stops me from "sayin the dog alerted".

Any more questions?
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:14 PM   #94
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I have a body camera and vehicle camera. I have 10+ years in K9, 24+ in LE. I can show video on the dog alert, and articulate the dog alert. I can testify about thousands of training and real deal alerts in court. I can clearly explain in court how my dog alerts and relate that to the video. I can show documentation on every dog deployment I have had (thousands).

Or, I can get on the stand and perjure myself. I can get put in prison, lose my job, and lose my retirement. That's what stops me from "sayin the dog alerted".

Any more questions?
I didn't say YOU in particular. Sure more questions, you cannot tell me that this scenario has never played out? All that stuff you said in the first paragraph I have no doubt of. You can testify and articulate to the court, don't mean it's true. Don't mean every officer has the integrity that you do either.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:14 PM   #95
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I have found that such requests by law enforcement officers often gives me the chance to educate them on NFA law and compare cool work instruments...
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:21 PM   #96
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Good luck to you! You do know that in high concentrations it will kill you eventually, right? AND, since I know what ozone smells like I can articulate reasonable suspicion to detain and investigate even if my dog doesn't alert.

I know, you were being funny. Just letting you know we know these tricks and how to work around them. :-}
Just curious how your dog would respond to wolf urine? Long ago I knew a smuggler/dealer who used it. He eventually got caught.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:26 PM   #97
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I didn't say YOU in particular. Sure more questions, you cannot tell me that this scenario has never played out? All that stuff you said in the first paragraph I have no doubt of. You can testify and articulate to the court, don't mean it's true. Don't mean every officer has the integrity that you do either.
Funny, you didn't say me in particular....but you said that after quoting me. Nope, can't tell you this has never played out....I can tell you it has never played out when I was around. I can tell you I reported a fellow officer to IA and testified against him in court. I can tell you the worst thing in the world in my line of work is a bad cop. Are there bad cops? Yep, a few. Are there bad restaurant owners? You tell me. My testifying and articulation to the court statement was in regards to validating what they see on the video, since most people don't know how dogs are trained and how they alert. Thanks for the integrity sentence, but still sounds like you are doubtful.

My career, my soon to come retirement, and my freedom are way more important to me than violating your rights and going to prison. I think 99.9% of cops would tell you the same thing.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:33 PM   #98
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Funny, you didn't say me in particular....but you said that after quoting me. Nope, can't tell you this has never played out....I can tell you it has never played out when I was around. I can tell you I reported a fellow officer to IA and testified against him in court. I can tell you the worst thing in the world in my line of work is a bad cop. Are there bad cops? Yep, a few. Are there bad restaurant owners? You tell me. My testifying and articulation to the court statement was in regards to validating what they see on the video, since most people don't know how dogs are trained and how they alert. Thanks for the integrity sentence, but still sounds like you are doubtful.

My career, my soon to come retirement, and my freedom are way more important to me than violating your rights and going to prison. I think 99.9% of cops would tell you the same thing.
The quoting you part was about the "right to drive" and constitution. I don't know you, so I'm not talking about you. The discussion is vehicle searches and I expressed my concern with searches involving dogs. As stated, I, as a citizen, have no recourse if an officer said the dog alerted. I don't know if the dog did or didn't but I'd be very skeptical as that is my nature. As with any profession, there are bad apples in every one of em and I know that there has been a random citizen or two that has been searched after Officer Bad Apple claims his dog alerted. And congrats on your upcoming retirement!
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:39 PM   #99
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Just curious how your dog would respond to wolf urine? Long ago I knew a smuggler/dealer who used it. He eventually got caught.
Never tried, but I know how he responds to other dog/cat/animal odors. He does show interest, but interest and alert are different. That's why K9 is required (by case law) to have ongoing training. Most K9 handlers train more than SWAT teams or any other LE specialty. My training usually exceeds 20 hours per month.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:41 PM   #100
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The quoting you part was about the "right to drive" and constitution. I don't know you, so I'm not talking about you. The discussion is vehicle searches and I expressed my concern with searches involving dogs. As stated, I, as a citizen, have no recourse if an officer said the dog alerted. I don't know if the dog did or didn't but I'd be very skeptical as that is my nature. As with any profession, there are bad apples in every one of em and I know that there has been a random citizen or two that has been searched after Officer Bad Apple claims his dog alerted. And congrats on your upcoming retirement!
Thanks!
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