Reply
Go Back   TexasBowhunter.com Community Discussion Forums > Topics > Around the Campfire
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2018, 10:04 AM   #1
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default Any concrete guys on here?

I need a second opinion on something. PM me please and thanks!
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:13 AM   #2
boh347
Pope & Young
 
boh347's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Christoval, tx
Hunt In: coke county, tx Nolan county, tx
Default

Not a concrete guy but my wife did say I’m a “know it all” so I might be able to help you out.
boh347 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:16 AM   #3
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boh347 View Post
not a concrete guy but my wife did say i’m a “know it all” so i might be able to help you out.
:d :d
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:33 AM   #4
Cajun Blake
Associate Sponsor
 
Cajun Blake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SW Louisiana
Hunt In: public & pvt land
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nursejenn View Post
I need a second opinion on something. PM me please and thanks!
Make sure you set up barricades after finishing the concrete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK06O...ature=youtu.be
Cajun Blake is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:34 AM   #5
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun Blake View Post
Make sure you set up barricades after finishing the concrete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK06O...ature=youtu.be
Lol the concrete was poured in November and was barricaded for a week. There's an issue with just part of it now...
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:36 AM   #6
Gclyde28
Six Point
 
Gclyde28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default

Whats the issue?
Gclyde28 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:40 AM   #7
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default

This is flat work (driveway) in front of our shop. Was poured in November. This is the ONLY part that is having this issue (the part that was done with the last truckload). There are probably 20 of these holes and sand is coming up through the holes and the concrete in general... just curious what causes this?

And yes, the guy who did the concrete is coming at 4 today. I'm just wanting to make sure I dont get some BS answer...
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:43 AM   #8
Trailerman3
Ten Point
 
Trailerman3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Gibtown
Hunt In: Mason,Gibtown,Rocksprings
Default

Looks like the concrete wasn’t mixed good and had pockets of the sand in it.
Trailerman3 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:45 AM   #9
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailerman3 View Post
Looks like the concrete wasn’t mixed good and had pockets of the sand in it.
That's what we thought but the concrete came from a 35 minute drive from us so there was plenty of time for it to spin...
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:48 AM   #10
Gclyde28
Six Point
 
Gclyde28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default

Looks to me like the concrete was never hit (or not enough) with a concrete vibrator or vibratory screed in those areas and when bull floated likely trapped some large air pockets which have had the surface chipped off since to expose the pockets.

Hard to really see depth of concrete on this picture but that's something to verify as well is that you actually got the amount of concrete that you paid for. On the plus side, it looks like your contraction joints are doing exactly what they are intended to do and making the cracks occur in those locations.
Gclyde28 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:48 AM   #11
RCDuck
Four Point
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DFW
Hunt In: Along the Red
Default

Clay Balls in the concrete.... Don't know where the concrete came from, but there was either clay balls in the sand that was used, or the loader operator feeding the plant got his bucket into clay. The paste generated when finishing the concrete hid them for a while, but eventually the paste is broken off the surface and the clay balls begin to flush out.
RCDuck is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:49 AM   #12
Grizz83
Ten Point
 
Grizz83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Central Texas
Hunt In: Coryell Co, Collingsworth Co, Colorado, Kansas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trailerman3 View Post
looks like the concrete wasn’t mixed good and had pockets of the sand in it.
sh-sh-shaaa!
Grizz83 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:49 AM   #13
Gclyde28
Six Point
 
Gclyde28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailerman3 View Post
Looks like the concrete wasn’t mixed good and had pockets of the sand in it.
This could definitely be an option as well, although less likely as you said the concrete had a 35 minute drive to get to the site.
Gclyde28 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:50 AM   #14
bps3040
Pope & Young
 
bps3040's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Spring,Texas
Hunt In: West Texas, Dryden area, Forestville, Canada
Default

Can you stick a screwdriver/rebar in hole...how deep? 1" deep? or deeper? 1" deep, they worked mud into surface while troweling/bull mopping. Deeper(3" deep, or all the way through, are voids/hollow areas
bps3040 is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:53 AM   #15
El General
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Coke County
Default

How many failure areas (pockmarks) are there in how large an area?

Pock marking like this is commonly caused by too much moisture in the subgrade. Essentially, the concrete bleeds its own water during finishing, then sucks the moisture out of the ground as it dries out. This always happens and it is common in hot, dry, high temp times of year to lightly spray down a subgrade so the reverse does not happen.

If the subgrade is too wet (like after a rain), then this moisture can form pockets of water in the concrete that become voids as time goes on. The concrete covering these pockets eventually fails and you will see the pock marks.

If you get a rain before a pour, sometimes contractors will try to dry the subgrade with lime, but this isn't a perfect solution because you are really just drying the surface and you could still have water below the surface migrate up through the concrete. The effectiveness of this method is highly variable depending on the subgrade material and preparation.

If it only happens in certain areas, it is often in the lower areas near drains or the downslope portions of sheet drained pavements because they stay wet longer after a rain. This is a pretty good indicator that it was wet subgrade.

As far as repair, grinding to clean concrete and using an approved repair material is adequate, but there are probably voids that are not yet exposed to the surface. The only sure way to repair concrete is to remove and replace joint to joint.

I have seen paving areas where this doesn't manifest for many years depending on many factors like traffic and prevalence of failures. I have also seen very pockmarked areas that performed satisfactorily for many years. This can be vary between not a big problem to a substantial contributor to paving failure.

There are other possible issues that can cause this, but wet subgrade is the most common in my experience.

I would push for a solution with your contractor now as opposed to later when your warranty is likely up. Industry standard for concrete paving warranties is 1 year.

I have been pouring concrete since I was 13 years old (now 39) and have done everything from sidewalks to highrise, residential to industrial, and repair to new construction. Please feel free to PM me for more information.

Good luck,

EG

Last edited by El General; 04-18-2018 at 11:03 AM.
El General is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:54 AM   #16
RCDuck
Four Point
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DFW
Hunt In: Along the Red
Default

http://overlays.acpa.org/Downloads/RT/RT5.04.pdf

It's probably not a major structural issue.... If it were me I'd insist that any loose material be removed, the holes pressure washed to clean out all clay, and filled with an epoxy repair material.
RCDuck is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 10:59 AM   #17
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bps3040 View Post
Can you stick a screwdriver/rebar in hole...how deep? 1" deep? or deeper? 1" deep, they worked mud into surface while troweling/bull mopping. Deeper(3" deep, or all the way through, are voids/hollow areas
There are about 20 holes right now and some tiny spots that when you spray water over the top will bubble and you can see they are beginning to increase in size. As far as the big holes so far, a couple of at least 2 inches deep as I can get half my finger in there and the rest are still only about 1 inch or less. You can definitely feel that there is still sand at the bottom of some of the holes but EVENTUALLY with a screwdriver, you do hit concrete.

Concrete was poured in mid-November and these JUST started showing up about 2 weeks ago and only this bad in the past couple of days. Our contractor (also a good friend) has looked at it and said he has only seen this one other time so he has the concrete sub coming out at 4 to see what he has to say.

Again, this is only a SMALL portion of the concrete that was poured that has any issue. The concrete under the shop is fine as is the concrete on the side of the driveway closest to the shop.
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 11:05 AM   #18
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El General View Post
How many failure areas (pockmarks) are there in how large an area?

Pock marking like this is common caused by a wet subgrade. Essentially, the concrete bleeds its own water during finishing, then sucks the moisture out of the ground as it dries out. If the subgrade is too wet, then this forms pockets of water in the concrete that becomes voids as time goes on. The concrete covering these pockets eventually fails and you will see the pock marks.

If it only happens in certain areas, it is often in the lower areas near drains because they stay wet longer after a rain.

As far as repair, grinding to clean concrete and using an approved repair material is adequate, but there are probably voids that are not yet exposed to the surface. The only sure way to repair concrete is to remove and replace joint to joint.

I have seen paving areas where this doesn't manifest for many years depending on many factors like traffic and prevalence of failures. I have also seen very pockmarked areas that performed satisfactorily for many years. This can be vary between not a huge problem to a substantial contributor to paving failure.

There are other possible issues that can cause this, but wet subgrade is the most common.

I would push for a solution with your contractor now as opposed to later when your warranty is likely up. Industry standard for concrete paving warranties is 1 year.

I have been pouring concrete since I was 13 years old (now 39) and have done everything from sidewalks to highrise, residential to industrial, and repair to new construction. Please feel free to PM me for more information.

Good luck,

EG
Thanks! I think you may have nailed it. It had rained about 24 hours before so the subgrade was wet. As I stated in my last post, there is only the LAST area they poured which has any issue and it's also the lowest part of the grade where they made it run off to the side and into the pasture so it would have been the wettest and any extra water there would have been pushed that way...
nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 11:13 AM   #19
nursejenn
Pope & Young
 
nursejenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Highly Respected Troublemaker
Hunt In: McCullouch County
Default

The blue Xs are where the "holes" are (and the last part that was poured) and the yellow dot is where the water runs off the side... the darker concrete where the truck is has been there for 10 years. The part in front of the shop where the shop shades it in this picture, all appears fine..

nursejenn is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 11:16 AM   #20
RCDuck
Four Point
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DFW
Hunt In: Along the Red
Default

I'm sticking with clay balls, especially since it appears to be isolated to one load.....
RCDuck is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 12:06 PM   #21
mjhaverkamp
Pope & Young
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Southlake, Texas
Hunt In: Cooke, Wilbarger, Foard Counties
Default

Either clay balls or possibly the finishers got mud or clay on their boots and kicked it off as they were dragging the concrete, either way it is an easy fix.
mjhaverkamp is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 12:29 PM   #22
Bigdaddy
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TEXAS
Default

These are clayballs, not hurting the integrity of the concrete.
Bigdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 03:24 PM   #23
El General
Ten Point
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston
Hunt In: Coke County
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nursejenn View Post
Thanks! I think you may have nailed it. It had rained about 24 hours before so the subgrade was wet. As I stated in my last post, there is only the LAST area they poured which has any issue and it's also the lowest part of the grade where they made it run off to the side and into the pasture so it would have been the wettest and any extra water there would have been pushed that way...
That's not a high traffic area. He should have no issue repairing the holes. Even if more holes pop up, it shouldn't be much of an issue.
El General is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 03:35 PM   #24
TTU TX Hunter
Ten Point
 
TTU TX Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sanger, TX
Hunt In: Archer County and Denton County
Default

Do you by chance have the ticket with the printed weights?
TTU TX Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 04:30 PM   #25
one66stang
Ten Point
 
one66stang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Midland, Tx
Hunt In: Big Lake , Tx
Default

not to detract from Op issue but since several guys with concrete experience. What is the going rate per yard for concrete. I have been quoted $120 a yard out here in Midland.
one66stang is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 04:38 PM   #26
brokeno
Eight Point
 
brokeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Smiley, Texas
Hunt In: Gonzales & Young Co and anywhere
Default

I'll have to ask my wife she knows everything
brokeno is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 04:41 PM   #27
Mesquite Archer
Ten Point
 
Mesquite Archer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mesquite, TX
Hunt In: Whitney / Abilene, KS
Default

Those are mudballs, or clayballs as said previously. Usually, from the loader operator at the plant scraping the bottom of the stockpile and picking up bits of mud, or dirt. A few are nothing to worry about and can be patched.
It looks like you have several. Depending on how you feel about paying for a new driveway and then getting a patch job I would talk to the contractor about replacing the panels from the last load and he should get his concrete supplier involved in the cost. Those are just the ones you see on the surface, rest assured they are the tip of the iceberg and there are more below the surface waiting to fail.
Mesquite Archer is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 04:52 PM   #28
RCDuck
Four Point
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DFW
Hunt In: Along the Red
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by one66stang View Post
not to detract from Op issue but since several guys with concrete experience. What is the going rate per yard for concrete. I have been quoted $120 a yard out here in Midland.
Ready-Mix Pricing varies wildly across Texas, due mostly to the distances from the aggregate and cement sources used in the mix design. I'm not familiar with Midland, but I wouldn't think $120 would be unreasonable... it's more than that around Lubbock or Childress.
RCDuck is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 05:32 PM   #29
SKLOSS
Pope & Young
 
SKLOSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Anderson County
Hunt In: Anderson & Coleman Counties
Default

Lyme disease!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SKLOSS is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-18-2018, 06:02 PM   #30
Randy Madden
Ten Point
 
Randy Madden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: East Texas
Hunt In: Everywhere
Default

I did not read all the comments but....
Since this was poured in November I’d be willing to bet the ground was muddy and mud got tracked into/onto the concrete then got worked into the surface.
I’ve seen it happen before.
Remedy... pressure wash the holes and let dry then fill with appropriate patch.
Still going to look rough cosmetically but structurally should be fine.
Ps... that is a prettty rough broom finish . IMO!!
Randy Madden is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Old 04-19-2018, 11:19 AM   #31
Mesquite Archer
Ten Point
 
Mesquite Archer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mesquite, TX
Hunt In: Whitney / Abilene, KS
Default

NurseJenn, how did your meeting with the contractor go?
Mesquite Archer is offline   Reply With Quote Back To The Top
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 1999-2012, TexasBowhunter.com