Question about a recent hunting trip? Refund?

[STXHO]

I was the outfitter that booked the hunt. I would like share my side of the story with this forum.

1.) You were told you would be the only group staying at the lodge and hunting on the ranch but got there only to find out that not to be case. Then told that the person wasn't going to be hunting the same place only to later be actually riding in the vehicle dropping him off and picking him up.

There was another man in camp, he was supposed to hunt a different ranch and stay at a different camp. I gave Stephen and his group the main part of the lodge and put the other gentleman in a different area so he would not disturb anyone. I apologized to stephen and I took this into consideration when I offered to bring them back for another hunt free of charge.



2.) Told that there would not be any size restrictions but then later after arrival told that is not the case and asked to sign paperwork stating penalties for minimal restrictions.

A copy of the ranch rules was sent to Stephen before he arrived at the ranch. He never contacted me about anything regarding the rules. After signing the release waiver he mentioned the rules and I explained them to him, he had no problems with them at that time.

3.) Told that you would meet at a certain time the next day but you get an email after 10 the night before your 5 hour road trip that its going to be 2 hours later than planned.

I sent Stephen an email the night before telling him I would be late. In my case I thought it would be easier for him since he had a long drive. If he would have had a problem with the meeting arrangements I could have very easily had one of my guides meet him. But nothing was said to me and he did not show any kind of concern about moving the time back 2 hours.

4.) After three days hunting with our group of 4 and including the other person that wasn't going to be there not one person even saw a doe or buck.

There are no guarantees in hunting. Stephen payed for a day hunting package with lodging and the opportunity to harvest the animals included in his package. I offered to bring him back for free when I have availability. When it is 100 degrees and you have a half+ moon the animals normally move at night. I offered to bring them back before any mention of a refund was made by Stephen. I was told that they saw hogs and a 2 doe. Hogs were seen throughout the weekend but no deer and I understand that is not what they were there to hunt. I told them that I would like to have them back in Nov or Dec when it gets cooler.

5.) You get offered to come back later in the season when you mention a partial refund. Only to have to ask for dates when none were offered as originally stated and then when you chose a date you are told that you should come later because the water is too high and probably will not go down in 3 weeks. That was only after never hearing anything back again.

I have told Stephen several times that I will respond to calls and/or txt messages a lot faster than an email. He has my phone number and could have contacted me at anytime. I am often away from the computer or in areas where cell phone service is bad so my response time to an email usually takes awhile.

I would be happy to speak with anyone that has any questions about the legitimacy of my business by either phone or email. I can provide hundreds of references to prove that I run a legit guide service. My ranches are not over hunted by any means. I apologized to Stephen and offered to bring him back, as I said before. The river flooding is something that I have no control over. My offer to bring him back still stands. This will be the only time I comment so if anyone would like more information please feel free to contact me and I will be happy to talk to you.


Thanks,


South Texas Hunting Outfitters
(979)-733-6301

[FJTMEGA]

Always 2 sides to every story.......

[takoma]

2 sides indeed.
I have come across some of the same issues with rules and restrictions not being read, hard times in hunting animals due to environmental conditions, lack of communication, and just sometimes nothing you can do to make the hunter happy.
Always good to hear it from both sides,... pretty cool owner offered another hunt.
There are right out TERRIBLE places to go.. been to a COUPLE. Don't think this place is one of them - c

[RodinaRanč]

Sucks for everyone involved & I've lived this as a hunter & as a ranch owner! Hope you guys are able to work it all out & come to a mutually beneficial resolution!!

[lnester]

I was the outfitter that booked the hunt. I would like share my side of the story with this forum.

1.) You were told you would be the only group staying at the lodge and hunting on the ranch but got there only to find out that not to be case. Then told that the person wasn't going to be hunting the same place only to later be actually riding in the vehicle dropping him off and picking him up.

There was another man in camp, he was supposed to hunt a different ranch and stay at a different camp. I gave Stephen and his group the main part of the lodge and put the other gentleman in a different area so he would not disturb anyone. I apologized to stephen and I took this into consideration when I offered to bring them back for another hunt free of charge.



2.) Told that there would not be any size restrictions but then later after arrival told that is not the case and asked to sign paperwork stating penalties for minimal restrictions.

A copy of the ranch rules was sent to Stephen before he arrived at the ranch. He never contacted me about anything regarding the rules. After signing the release waiver he mentioned the rules and I explained them to him, he had no problems with them at that time.

3.) Told that you would meet at a certain time the next day but you get an email after 10 the night before your 5 hour road trip that its going to be 2 hours later than planned.

I sent Stephen an email the night before telling him I would be late. In my case I thought it would be easier for him since he had a long drive. If he would have had a problem with the meeting arrangements I could have very easily had one of my guides meet him. But nothing was said to me and he did not show any kind of concern about moving the time back 2 hours.

4.) After three days hunting with our group of 4 and including the other person that wasn't going to be there not one person even saw a doe or buck.

There are no guarantees in hunting. Stephen payed for a day hunting package with lodging and the opportunity to harvest the animals included in his package. I offered to bring him back for free when I have availability. When it is 100 degrees and you have a half+ moon the animals normally move at night. I offered to bring them back before any mention of a refund was made by Stephen. I was told that they saw hogs and a 2 doe. Hogs were seen throughout the weekend but no deer and I understand that is not what they were there to hunt. I told them that I would like to have them back in Nov or Dec when it gets cooler.

5.) You get offered to come back later in the season when you mention a partial refund. Only to have to ask for dates when none were offered as originally stated and then when you chose a date you are told that you should come later because the water is too high and probably will not go down in 3 weeks. That was only after never hearing anything back again.

I have told Stephen several times that I will respond to calls and/or txt messages a lot faster than an email. He has my phone number and could have contacted me at anytime. I am often away from the computer or in areas where cell phone service is bad so my response time to an email usually takes awhile.

I would be happy to speak with anyone that has any questions about the legitimacy of my business by either phone or email. I can provide hundreds of references to prove that I run a legit guide service. My ranches are not over hunted by any means. I apologized to Stephen and offered to bring him back, as I said before. The river flooding is something that I have no control over. My offer to bring him back still stands. This will be the only time I comment so if anyone would like more information please feel free to contact me and I will be happy to talk to you.


Thanks,


South Texas Hunting Outfitters
(979)-733-6301

Thanks for posting. Now we all know not to ever hunt at your place. Too many bad outfitters in this world! Thank goodness the internet helps get the word out.

[LittleDanny]

Very Interesting...

[venisonstew]

LOL this sounds like a craigslist property

[boh347]

Maybe give the guy some of his money back?

[TXHunter12]

Interesting. I will post later it's Halloween. I was never going to give the name of the place out that was not my intention I was only asking for advice on a totally different forum that the hunts are being sold on. I was trying to be brief when I posted last night. But when someone goes out of there way to post on an anonymous thread I posted and use my name I guess I should provide more details. Very disappointing and just really adds to the frustration over all this.

[TXHunter12]

I feel like I need to respond and tell more of the story which never was my intention in the first place it was only to get some general advice from the GS how to handle an unpleasant trip. This outfitter markets his hunts on another forum. But since information was posted specifically from the outfitter discounting things that I said I do feel an obligation to clarify.

I don’t want to belabor the size restrictions and penalties as its really just another one of the several issues. Also, it was really not relevant because nobody saw anything. But since many focus on this here are a few more details. There were several low fence hunts being offered at the same time by this outfitter on another hunting forum that they promote hunts on pretty much on a daily basis. When I talked to him on the phone I asked about the size restrictions that were posted. It was said that on the bow hunt that the restrictions were not going to used but they preferred mature deer. On the rifle hunt that was not the case. This was all said before paying the deposit and booking. So it was a phone conversation and it was back in April. In October at the end of the week before we were supposed to go I emailed and was confirming since I have never heard anything. It was after this email I got a reply with the rules and regulations of the hunting ranch. It looked like a standard form paper used for all the hunts. I did see the mention of the restriction but knew we had talked before on the phone specifically about this. (my mistake not to get it in writing).

The one thing I did see was the mention at the end of the rules were no expandables allowed. I called the outfitter and asked if this was the case and he said yes. He told me I just needed to go buy some fixed broadheads and I would be fine. I explained to him everyone had already tuned their bows the weekend before and it would have been nice if there were rules that I would have got them sooner. (like after or before I booked the hunt)

So after driving to the country the week before to tune everything in I am back at Academy Friday night buying some fixed blades and then back up to the country the weekend before to resite the bow back in. (turned out to be a 4 inch difference btw).

The night before I am getting ready to go to bed after discussing with everyone about the time to leave to avoid traffic etc to get out of town I get an email after 10pm that just says I will be running late will meet you guys at 2pm. If I would not have checked my email I would have never known. Its just not a very good way of letting people know. If you know someone is taking a long drive the next morning and planning on leaving early in the morning you don’t send them an email late at night changing the time. Again its just one of the issues.

I was told specifically that if I found another father and son that we would have the lodge and hunting ranch to ourselves. (this I do have an email on) So I had invited another father and son with me and they paid themselves. They are customers of mine. I didn’t want to make a huge deal out of things and we just drove 5 hours. But the first thing that was said when they saw the other guy in the parking lot was I bet we are not going to be alone like agreed too. I told him that was the deal and nothing to worry about.
Well when the outfitter gets there he goes and talks to the other guy first so I know he is meeting him too. At the same delayed time as us so he must have told him the same time too.

I am still thinking maybe he is going to put him up somewhere else because I had read on the site there was another bunkhouse and another hunting ranch.
It wasn’t till after we got there and we were signing papers(first thing that happened when we walked in) that I realized he was not taking the other guy to another place. So as soon as everyone gave him the money and papers. I met the outfitter outside by himself and said that its not what we had talked about. We were supposed to have the lodge and hunting ranch to ourselves. I also mentioned the paperwork stating the size restrictions and asking if this was the case because it was not what we talked about when booking. I was figuring now that if the fact we were not alone the other stuff probably was not the same either. He did not go out of his way to apologize. He told me that person would be staying in another room and would be hunting at the same place we were. He also said that he did not realize the “kids” were hunting as there are usually rules against them hunting. The hunt posted mentioned father/son husband/spouse etc. I told him that we had already discussed the kids were coming and that was in our emails. He said they are not usually allowed to hunt alone. (they had hunters safety cert etc) The hunt was paid the same for each person. This was not a father/son package like I have had before. Each person paid the same rate on this hunt. They paid the same as the other guy that was there. At this discussion there was no going out the way to apologize about making a mistake and not doing as said upon booking. It was just making me more uncomfortable about the fact he was mentioning about the kids not being able to hunt now. There were no rules posted anywhere about this. (only say this because people refer back to the written rules) I could see how this could be a problem for him though as instead of having just two stands and then a place for the other guy now more would be needed if we were not all hunting together.

I did not want to make a big deal out all of this in front of everyone because like I said I had invited the others with me and they were my guests. If I had been by myself with just my son I probably would have just left.

I had another place I could have booked and had the place to myself and for guests this was something that was important that I was searching for when finding a place. It is not the end of the world but when you think you are going to be in a 4 bedroom place and you are instead in 2 shared rooms and shared bathroom with people you brought thinking the same thing its not very good.

When actually hunting the first evening I never saw the other guy so thought he was hunting a different place. But later we were riding in the same vehicle when getting picked up etc. I was holding his bow for him while riding. He actually hunted one of the same blinds one of us was in later. So no we were not in the same blind together but yes we were on the same hunting ranch. Again not as discussed. The other guy was really nice and by no means wanted to say anything to make him feel bad.

In regards to the animals seen. The other guy the last day said he seen hogs but he was there for hogs. We were not there for hogs either but after not seeing anything we would have shot one had we had the opportunity. One evening some of us saw hogs but nobody had any in shooting range (very far out). The next evening saw some hogs but way out of range. Yes we did see ONE doe. It was at the house we were staying at which was not a the place we were hunting. We saw it walk by before we got in the vehicle to go hunting which was at a totally different place. I don’t know where the mention of 2 doe came from other than we saw 2 dead doe on the interstate on the way and had talked about that. There was NO deer activity on the ranch we were hunting. Not one time did we even see a deer driving in or out. We did see cows while hunting though. It was hot but it wasn’t a 100 degrees as said. It was October in Texas. Deer are used to heat. There were not any fresh tracks by the feeders etc. and it had rained that week prior..

I did have to initiate all the emails about dates when I got back. Yes there are bad signals at the ranch. However, if I see the same outfitter posting and answering PM’s on the forum selling more of the same hunts daily I would think there is enough connection and time to reply back to my emails that I sent previously! I would see over and over again this happening so yes it did seem to me that I was not really wanted back. After selecting a date I never heard anything back. I then emailed asking about it since I never heard back only to get an email saying the river had flooded and I should consider coming a month later. The date was 3 weeks away. Maybe that is the case I have no idea of knowing but it just didn’t seem like the outfitter was going out of their way to make anything work well.

I am guessing I am supposed to be grateful for the offer to bring us back. But like I said do I really want to go back to the same place and use up more gas and another set of days off at this point. I got an email the same day he posted on this thread from the outfitter that I never even had a chance to respond to before seeing this post on this anonymous thread. It was mentioned the phone is a better way to communicate then why not call me instead of posting here on the thread.

It really does make me upset when someone is talking about rules and penalties when they don’t hold up their end of the agreement. What are the penalties for agreeing to do something and then letting them drive 5 hours there after waiting 6 months only to find out something different?
The outfitter is young relatively speaking. I don’t mean this bad in anyway but when you are 22 you might not see things a certain way after you have been in business for say 10 years. You learn from your mistakes. The outfitter posting on this anonymous thread where I was asking for advice from the GS I don’t think was good step. Also further misrepresenting what actually happened is not a good move either IMO. I had sent him an email the night after I posted this thread asking for advice stating all these things I was unhappy about and got a response back the next day that I was going to respond to when I got home (His response was the same pretty much as posted here). Then I get home and see this outfitter posted on this thread. I know I certainly have over time in business learned over the years. I go out of my way to make things right with people and yes there are times I just give them all their money back to make them happy. I don’t wish him any ill will and I hope things are better for him in the future.

I doubt after all this I will not be getting anything back even though I think it’s the right thing to do. He has never once offered anything back. He has really never apologized for the apparent "mistake" on his part of double booking. I will make it right with the customers I brought with me that paid him money. I will probably give them their money back or pay for them to go on another trip somewhere else. So this was an expensive learning lesson for me.

If I was an outfitter and I promised someone the lodge and hunting ranch to themselves if they have a minimal number of people booked and it wasn't the case and then further they never even saw a deer the entire time they were there I would have offered a refund out of just a good will gesture just on those two items alone.

[TXHunter12]

I have hunted many different places over the past 20 years and guided with different outfitters over the past 8 or 9 years and I would normally side with the outfitter. It is called hunting not killing. In this case, with the results and the somewhat flakieness of the guy, I would be tempted to be stern but not rude (at first) about a refund or another hunt and to be under the agreed conditions. I have never hunted anywhere in the state of texas nor guided anywhere that we didnt atleast see something. That is just p iss poor outfitting and business in my eyes. When you book a hunt or guide/outfit people it should be an upfront and clear that it is not a 100%garuntee that you will leave with something, but 5 people in 3 days not seeing anything is unusual. Sounds like they pressure the crap out of the place or just threw yall out there sight unseen and no scouting at all. I have been on some pretty shady hunts the one thing I have learned from those and the outfitters I have guided for (who have been great i will add) is to be upfront and clear about all stipultaions, if any and even on paper if necessary, when any money exchanges hands. A deposit is a deposit you pay $200 on a $1000 hunt and dont show you cost the outfitter a possible $800. I have had an accident and required surgery the day I was suppose to leave for a hunt and the outfitter said i could use my deposit toward another hunt later on. I saw this as even in my eyes.

Duramax: I think your advice is good and I have been nothing but nice considering everything. I will continue to be nice.

Its a wierd thing I have seen on some forums of late where some outfitters that post a lot and sell hunts have a click of people they run with on the boards. If anything is said negative the person that actually had the bad experience is looked down upon for saying anything. I did not start this thread to even discuss a place by name. I was just trying to ask for advice. I have been on a fair amount of trips in the last few years with different outfits and generally have had good experiences. Most of the time people involved on a forum will go out of their way to make sure things are first class for you.

I totally understand the hunting is hunting comments too. I don't expect a deer to be on a leash ready for release in front of the stand

Thanks for your comments.

[Tattooed Hunter]

Duramax: I think your advice is good and I have been nothing but nice considering everything. I will continue to be nice.

Its a wierd thing I have seen on some forums of late where some outfitters that post a lot and sell hunts have a click of people they run with on the boards. If anything is said negative the person that actually had the bad experience is looked down upon for saying anything. I did not start this thread to even discuss a place by name. I was just trying to ask for advice. I have been on a fair amount of trips in the last few years with different outfits and generally have had good experiences. Most of the time people involved on a forum will go out of their way to make sure things are first class for you.

I totally understand the hunting is hunting comments too. I don't expect a deer to be on a leash ready for release in front of the stand

Thanks for your comments.

I agree completely. If you have seen the other threads you will find one I posted about a place and had VERY similar experience with another well known place. I had one person in particular bash me for what I was saying, then you post an extremely similar event and the same person says you are right for wanting a refund. Lesson I learned? There ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT clicks of people on here that follow certain ranches or people. I feel that you need to be brought back or given a refund one or the other. In respect for the outfitter though, he has offered that to you and the offer still stands. Take it. Just my two cents.

[TXHunter12]

I agree completely. If you have seen the other threads you will find one I posted about a place and had VERY similar experience with another well known place. I had one person in particular bash me for what I was saying, then you post an extremely similar event and the same person says you are right for wanting a refund. Lesson I learned? There ARE WITHOUT A DOUBT clicks of people on here that follow certain ranches or people. I feel that you need to be brought back or given a refund one or the other. In respect for the outfitter though, he has offered that to you and the offer still stands. Take it. Just my two cents.

Did you read the part about he would never give me dates then I finally got a date then he tells me those dates will not work and needs to be later? Meanwhile, still posting on the same forum selling the same and other hunts before that. (There are a lot details on this and I will not waste the time explaining. )

Its he said she said but I do feel like I got the run around on when to come back. If I was the outfitter I would have been going out of my way to contact the person and making sure I came up with something that would work.

Basically what is happening in my opinion is working around what the availablility is and when its most convenient for them. I already said my time was worth more than the money.

Does this really sound like a place I want to go back to and waste 3 more days?

[TXHunter12]

I have asked for a 1/3 partial refund based on the fact that our agreement we would be the only ones staying at the lodge and hunting on the ranch was not fulfilled which I do have a record of unlike the things that were discussed on phone and in person.

I think that is more than a fair request.

Thanks to all for the comments and advice.

[DaveS903]

Having read both sides, I agree with the OP. The outfitter basically confirmed what TXHunter12 posted. People make decisions about booking hunts based on promises made when they book. Changing things up at the last minute is a great way to lose customers. Regarding the extra hunter, a simple phone call to the OP explaining the situation and offering a free hog or a drawing for an extra doe or some such thing might have turned the issue into a non-issue. Things happen and both sides think they are right, but the bottom line is the outfitter has a very dissatisfied customer who feels the things promised were not delivered. Outfitters stay in business by making customers happy. If I were the outfitter, I would do everything I could to make things right. I would also make sure the problems being discussed here never happen again with future hunters. I will not book with South Texas Hunting Outfitters and I will recommend others look elsewhere if asked.