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Old 09-10-2010, 07:48 AM   #1
barnett77859
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Default how many does do you think a mature buck breeds per year?

You might be surprised. Its less than you think. A buck successfully breeds one doe per year.
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:50 AM   #2
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Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookay. Where does this info come from? AND, I have real world experience to the contrary.
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:58 AM   #3
splitfinger
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Break out the popcorn. I'm not even going to try and get into this one...
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:59 AM   #4
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3
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnett77859 View Post
You might be surprised. Its less than you think. A buck successfully breeds one doe per year.
Absolutely true...if a buck is lucky he might actually breed two but typically its one or none...
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:59 AM   #6
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We had a wild life deal with the game bio from the king ranch and that the infomation
he gave out. He has ran the king ranch game managment for 15 years. I really dont want to believe him but have no proof he wrong.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:06 AM   #7
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MY information: In 2007, I had two mature bucks cover 8 does on 479 high fenced acres. Proof was in the pudding...or trailcams when all 8 does had at least one fawn on the ground in early summer 2008. I am 100% sure these were the only two bucks on the ranch.

Don't put all your eggs in one bio basket. I once watched Bob Zaglin, Macy Ledbetter, Kroll and another bio I cant remember argue carrying capacity for over 30 minutes. They all had different opinions and information/data to back up there opinion. No doubt the King Ranch grows big deer but I cant agree with this opinion.

IMO the theory just doesnt hold water. How could it when the buck to doe ratio is nowhere close to 1:1 and in some areas of the state the ratio can get up to 5:1...yet even with al lthe hunting pressure the population is still growing.

Last edited by JeffJ; 09-10-2010 at 08:31 AM..
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:09 AM   #8
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Sounds like marriage

j
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:14 AM   #9
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He's talking an average of one. Some will be more, some less, but most will be one.
__________________
If I didn't think my opinion was right, then it wouldn't be my opinion. So, any other opinion must be wrong, therefore stupid.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:17 AM   #10
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He breeds as many as he can... and it varies place to place...

a buck in a pen can successfully breed 20...

So deer herds with different ratios are going to have different answers...

the tighter the ratio the fewer does will be bred by an individual...
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:19 AM   #11
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That may be close for an average, but each individual herd will differ depending on the age structure, buck doe ratio, etc.

^
Just a hair too late.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:22 AM   #12
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I guess if you count the buck fawns and maybe 1.5 yo then that would hurt the average so I could one being the average. I would think most might only breed 2 or three if lucky. Big bucks hang with the doe so I could see them breeding in Oct and then again in Nov.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffJ View Post
MY information: In 2007, I had two mature bucks cover 8 does on 479 high fenced acres. Proof was in the pudding...or trailcams when all 8 does had at least one fawn on the ground in early summer 2008. I am 100% sure these were the only two bucks on the ranch.

Don't put all your eggs in one bio basket. I once watched Bob Zaglin, Macy Ledbetter, Kroll and another bio I cant remember argue carrying capacity for over 30 minutes. They all had different opinions and information/data to back up there opinion. No doubt the King Ranch grows big deer but I cant agree with this opinion.
All other bucks in the world are jealous of your two bucks, of course those two bucks bred those does, if you had 50 does those two bucks would have tried to breed them all as well. You basically had them in a pen, I am not knocking the high fence, I managed and hunted a 1000 acres high fence ranch for several years before it was sold and I miss it dearly...
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encinal View Post

the tighter the ratio the fewer does will be bred by an individual...
Exactly. I have no idea what the KR ratio is but if it is close to 1:1 then the bios theory holds up. BUt it doesnt hold up because of a deers behavioral makeup. It holds up becuase each buck only has one doe to himself.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JES View Post
All other bucks in the world are jealous of your two bucks, of course those two bucks bred those does, if you had 50 does those two bucks would have tried to breed them all as well. You basically had them in a pen, I am not knocking the high fence, I managed and hunted a 1000 acres high fence ranch for several years before it was sold and I miss it dearly...
Agreed... Like humans, if it's available, it will get bred....

Seriously though.. Most of the studies I have read suggested that because does come in at similar ( figuratively speaking) times of the year, your good buck(s) may be locked onto one hot doe with 5 others ready and they'll be available for any of your scrubs for the taking. In the above scenario, does come in until one of the two bucks can get to them... What a life with no competition...
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:49 AM   #16
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Mature, free range, bucks usually spend more time fighting than breeding. They are lucky to breed 3-5 doe in a normal season. Breeding is usually done be the spectators, so cull early, cull often !!!!
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnett77859 View Post
You might be surprised. Its less than you think. A buck successfully breeds one doe per year.
A buck could trend to a doe for 48 hrs intill she is ready. It will take him 12 to 48 to recover then he will breed again. So in the rut he could breed up to 5 or 6 does.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:17 AM   #18
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They still beat me
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:18 AM   #19
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I have read it is VERy low also but around 2-4 per season!!!
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:23 AM   #20
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Also, you have to remember that "mounting" a doe is not the same as breeding a doe. In the wild that same hot doe may breed with several bucks and it's a dice roll which one sticks.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:24 AM   #21
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I will disagree with the one doe theory. With the ratio out of whack like it is in most places. I think 2-4 is more likely.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:32 AM   #22
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It looks to me that the only thing certain is nobody really knows. Especially this motley crew on the green screen!!
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:33 AM   #23
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he also said that sence a buck only breeds one doe a year that a spike has on input on your deer herd. So in most cases a ranch owner should take a chance on the young spike to see how he grows off in the next few years. But if hes a older spike like a 21/2
or older take him out.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:33 AM   #24
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I never would have thought the count was that low!
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:35 AM   #25
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one a year??? horsepucky A mature buck will breed as many hot does as are available to him.

They will usually "hole up" with a hot does for 2-3 days, then find another hot doe, and repeat the cycle as long as there are hot does. The only way he breeds ONE doe is if ALL the does on a property come into estrous at the same time...not gonna happen.

A herd always has some that come into estrous early by a week er more, most within a weeks window, and some late. Do the math. One ain't the answer.

I never managed the King ranch, I only worked for DCNR for 26 years, and then 5 years in the private sector...............

troy
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JES View Post
All other bucks in the world are jealous of your two bucks, of course those two bucks bred those does, if you had 50 does those two bucks would have tried to breed them all as well. You basically had them in a pen, I am not knocking the high fence, I managed and hunted a 1000 acres high fence ranch for several years before it was sold and I miss it dearly...
Exactly. That may be the farthest thing from a real world example ever posted on here. Seriously, 2 bucks and 8 does on less than 500 acres and we're supposed to be surprised the only 2 bucks on the place got all the does bred?
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:46 AM   #27
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i would say 2-5!!! 5 at most
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:07 AM   #28
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as many as he sees fit that breeding season.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:44 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson View Post
Exactly. That may be the farthest thing from a real world example ever posted on here. Seriously, 2 bucks and 8 does on less than 500 acres and we're supposed to be surprised the only 2 bucks on the place got all the does bred?
Not at all the point I was trying to make. I was pointing out that the real world has too many variables. Read the original post, "a buck successfully breeds one doe per year". Sounds like a blanket statement that is false when read as is. If he had said, "when sex ratios are tight a buck will only average breeding one doe per year", I would have agreed.

In Llano county where the ratio is proably 1:4 this theory would cause the population of WT deer to disappear on the volume of deer that are killed yearly.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:05 AM   #30
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It all depends on the buck to doe ratio. If you have 1 buck to every 5 does of course the bucks are going to breed more doe, because they have to. But if you have a 1:1 then I think this may be true.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:37 AM   #31
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It's true that the further apart the sex ratio is, the more does a single buck breeds. But, we tend to believe that the older, more dominant bucks do more of the breeding, and that isn't true at all. When a sex ratio is out of whack, all bucks definately get to breed, meaning that your spikes and culls breed just as many as the bucks that are desirable. I guess they are all desirable to the does. And in fact, the older bucks that spend time fighting may very well lose a chance to breed, because the young fellers come in and steal their doe while they are fighting. So, shoot the culls, and shoot lotsa does if you have a skewed sex ratio.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnester View Post
It looks to me that the only thing certain is nobody really knows. Especially this motley crew on the green screen!!

True.....but it is kinda interesting to see people enthuisiastically defend an idea they have with zero evidence whatsoever.....if anything one could learn more about human behavior rather than deer by reading threads like this.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckwild17 View Post
Mature, free range, bucks usually spend more time fighting than breeding. They are lucky to breed 3-5 doe in a normal season. Breeding is usually done be the spectators, so cull early, cull often !!!!
I am a lover not a fighter
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encinal View Post
he breeds as many as he can... And it varies place to place...

A buck in a pen can successfully breed 20...

So deer herds with different ratios are going to have different answers...

The tighter the ratio the fewer does will be bred by an individual...

bingo!
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:54 PM   #35
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As many as I could get to stay still long enough when I was younger....
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:59 PM   #36
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I'm thinking it has to do with how good looking the does are and if the buck in question likes to party or not.
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Old 09-10-2010, 02:41 PM   #37
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3 to 4
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:39 PM   #38
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Quote:
he also said that sence a buck only breeds one doe a year that a spike has on input on your deer herd. So in most cases a ranch owner should take a chance on the young spike to see how he grows off in the next few years. But if hes a older spike like a 21/2
or older take him out.
He also got fired from the KR because he is an idiot.

He biases his research and ignores what he wants (I know our data is part of many of his projects too).

The KR no longer allows spikes to be killed and it was optional before. Oh and guess what, the leases that did not kill spikes kill bigger deer and a higher number of bigger deer. Duh.

So take what he told you and try to forget it before you become dumber.

The real research suggests that on average a buck will sire something like 1.5 fawns to recruitement age. This does not mean he breeds 1 doe per year. It means on average he has 1.5 fawns that make it to age 1.5 without dying.

So read into it what you want.

I know our deer numbers are so ridiculously out of whack on the king ranch it makes you sick. This year we get to start working on getting the doe numbers back in line. He was letting us kill 7-17 does per year on 11,000 acres. We have been killing 70-120 bucks per year for the last 15 years. Go figure, he's a real genius.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qzilla View Post
He also got fired from the KR because he is an idiot.

He biases his research and ignores what he wants (I know our data is part of many of his projects too).

The KR no longer allows spikes to be killed and it was optional before. Oh and guess what, the leases that did not kill spikes kill bigger deer and a higher number of bigger deer. Duh.

So take what he told you and try to forget it before you become dumber.

The real research suggests that on average a buck will sire something like 1.5 fawns to recruitement age. This does not mean he breeds 1 doe per year. It means on average he has 1.5 fawns that make it to age 1.5 without dying.

So read into it what you want.

I know our deer numbers are so ridiculously out of whack on the king ranch it makes you sick. This year we get to start working on getting the doe numbers back in line. He was letting us kill 7-17 does per year on 11,000 acres. We have been killing 70-120 bucks per year for the last 15 years. Go figure, he's a real genius.
Bang, bang, bang...BANG. There are the holes shot in that "theory". Thanks for the insight Quad.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:53 PM   #40
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If he's married and not cheating then that holds a little water......but probably not in the whitetail world...
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:57 PM   #41
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I`ve always heard it was in the 2-3 range.
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:59 PM   #42
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3 would be my guess. 2 possible during the first cycle of estrus and then if there are does not bred during the first cycle he will catch a third in the second round.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:16 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Sounds like marriage

j
Lol.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:31 PM   #44
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according to all the gentic research done in south texas, it is said that they average four a year. even when they breed four a yr often when its twins there has been alot of findings that only one of the offspring is theirs. just my two cents.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:32 PM   #45
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Where I hunt the buck doe ratio is about 6 does per 1 buck....Very seldom do you see a doe without at least one fawn so somebody is getting it done.....


-john
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:39 PM   #46
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It all depends on how many smokes he has after tending the doe.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:08 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qzilla View Post
He also got fired from the KR because he is an idiot.

He biases his research and ignores what he wants (I know our data is part of many of his projects too).

The KR no longer allows spikes to be killed and it was optional before. Oh and guess what, the leases that did not kill spikes kill bigger deer and a higher number of bigger deer. Duh.

So take what he told you and try to forget it before you become dumber.

The real research suggests that on average a buck will sire something like 1.5 fawns to recruitement age. This does not mean he breeds 1 doe per year. It means on average he has 1.5 fawns that make it to age 1.5 without dying.
x2..........
So read into it what you want.

I know our deer numbers are so ridiculously out of whack on the king ranch it makes you sick. This year we get to start working on getting the doe numbers back in line. He was letting us kill 7-17 does per year on 11,000 acres. We have been killing 70-120 bucks per year for the last 15 years. Go figure, he's a real genius.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:13 PM   #48
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Depends on how much game hes got.
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