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Management Program without Culling?

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    #31
    Management Program without Culling?

    Originally posted by Kdog View Post
    But I guess the million dollar question is, will your habitat support the higher deer density? Are you feeding enough protein? Where I hunt i wouldn't say the deer have unlimitted protien. They seem to eat it faster than I can fill it! I kinda worry that we are ending up with better recruitment (due to feeding)., but smaller antlers because of the drain on the habitat. I don't really have any evidence either way though on this.

    Higher density than what? In the old days most biologists wanted a deer per 25 acres, but due to the statistical rarity of a 160+ buck that doesn't produce very many trophies unless you have tens of thousands of acres. The 1/25ac density was before supplemental feeding. With an effective feed program, most habitats can support more deer with great results. The "density sweet spot" depends on your habitat and budget. On a well fed STX ranch, 1/10 is an effective density. That density will produce more genetic rarities than a lighter density, if they are well fed, without a detriment to the habitat.

    Instead of managing for a certain buck to doe ratio, we should be managing for bucks on the ground. The number of bucks your land can produce depends on the management intensity and the feed program.

    Culling bucks at 4 or 5 creates a choke point for the buck population. If the age structure is correct, the mature bucks will be doing most of the breeding.

    I kill almost all doe fawns every year to control the density. Doe fawns are a non productive part of the population. They also can extend the rut into February and even March which taxes the bucks without any reward. Every few years some doe fawns are allowed to go through to compensate for barren does and mortality. We also kill old barren does each year.

    By killing doe fawns and culling bucks at 4, the buck to doe ratio is going to be tight. I may have 2 bucks for every doe on a general count, but the ratio of 4+ year old bucks to productive does is easily 1/1. We have a short and effective rut without broken horns or run down bucks. This allows the bucks to be in good condition coming into the spring.

    If you want to kill more big bucks, you have to produce more bucks. Statistics dictate that fact.

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      #32
      Management Program without Culling?

      Originally posted by Peyton View Post
      Higher density than what?.

      Higher than before we started feeding protein. I mean, the protein is a supplement right? The natural habitat will be what determines what the deer has to eat most of the time. Thanks for the input.

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        #33
        We have 400 acres in Menard County and have been feeding 20% protein year round for a little over 4 years now. I believe that with supplemental feed, you will have higher fawn crops, which means you will have to increase your deer harvest in order to keep the numbers below carrying capacity. I believe if you can keep a the native range and good quality, provide year-round supplementation, and keep your deer numbers down, you are going to have bigger deer. It's worked for us. We have killed several deer in the mid 140's/low 150's over the past 3 years.

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          #34
          Our rules.

          Management deer:
          6.5+ year old under 150".
          5.5 year old 141" & under.
          4.5 year old with 8 or less points AND 136" or less.
          3.5 year old true 7 point or less or no brow tines.
          No shooting spikes.

          Trophy deer:
          6.5+ year old with 150"+
          Last edited by bermise; 12-31-2014, 04:55 PM.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Kdog View Post
            Higher than before we started feeding protein. I mean, the protein is a supplement right? The natural habitat will be what determines what the deer has to eat most of the time. Thanks for the input.
            True and False...if your aren't feeding enough True.

            If you are feeding enough the brush becomes the supplement to balance the protein ingest and balance the rumen content.

            My take - if the deer are eating it faster than you can fill it. You have too many deer, not a big enough feeder or aren't making enough trips to the ranch or all of the above.

            If you are talking about where I think you are in Kinney county. Our deer will go through 3000 lbs of protein and 1000 lbs of cottonseed per 500 acres in 4-6 weeks with good range conditions.

            Again if this is Kinney County that should give you a great example as we're neighbors.

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              #36
              Bruce - The deer are eating out of my protein feeder all night and then going to yours during the day. Need to get one of those Kirvoman timers I guess.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Kdog View Post
                Bruce - The deer are eating out of my protein feeder all night and then going to yours during the day. Need to get one of those Kirvoman timers I guess.
                LOL! Not unless they are going 6 miles...and passing a dozen other feeders. We're neighbors just not next door neighbors.

                Send me a PM or give me a call. I'll give ya more details.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Archery1st View Post
                  LOL! Not unless they are going 6 miles...and passing a dozen other feeders. We're neighbors just not next door neighbors.

                  Send me a PM or give me a call. I'll give ya more details.
                  Lol, I know it was a joke. We are neighbors but I think the habitat is a little different on some of it too at least depending on where you are on your place. Anyway, I will shoot you a PM later I do have a couple questions for ya.

                  Kevin

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Kdog View Post
                    Bruce - The deer are eating out of my protein feeder all night and then going to yours during the day. Need to get one of those Kirvoman timers I guess.
                    There goes your theory..see time and date.
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                      #40
                      Excellent thread. Brings up another question, new thread coming soon.

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